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King Rothgar
Amarrian Retribution
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Posted - 2010.10.30 16:01:00 -
[31]
There are few ships I mount cap batteries on, but I do use them. Yes the PG requirements on them tend to be problematic but they also add a TON of cap recharge on cruiser sized ships. The only real problem I see with them is that smalls are sub-frigate sized, mediums are frigate sized, larges are cruiser sized and BS/capital sizes just don't exist.
Thus far you shall read, but no further; for this is my sig. |
Infinion
Caldari
Endless Destruction
Imperial 0rder
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Posted - 2010.10.30 22:58:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: About Mesale
Imo, a good boost for batteries would be to use them for making ships recover faster from deep cap. A flat cap recharge bonus would do that. That way they at least have a niche role in giving the ship using them a slight bonus after getting neuted dry, a huge boost for tacklers who could at least run some of their modules more reliably.
(Sadly also a slight nos nerf, as many close tacklers like to use nos for a continuous stream of cap)
This idea really stood out to me. If cap batteries would change to something as dynamic as this, they would be very favorable mods to fit in a lot of situations.
But if more than one battery is fit on a ship, should it increase the size of capacitor it influences, or should the base recharge be increased?
also I'm not sure if it really would nerf nos since most close tacklers use their med slots for mwd's, scrams, and webs. And most frigates don't usually have more than 3 mediums; they would have to sacrifice at least the webber for it.
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About Mesale
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Posted - 2010.10.31 07:07:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Infinion
also I'm not sure if it really would nerf nos since most close tacklers use their med slots for mwd's, scrams, and webs. And most frigates don't usually have more than 3 mediums; they would have to sacrifice at least the webber for it.
NOS is a highslot item.
Also, batteries should still enlarge your cap. Otherwise we'd have a another cap recharger module.
A flat recharge bonus like, let's say, +5cap/s for a bs-sized battery not matter how empty/full the capacitor is would allow for speedy recovery without giving more cap/s than a cap recharger/cap power relay.
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Arzamor
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.10.31 07:42:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Infinion
Originally by: About Mesale
Imo, a good boost for batteries would be to use them for making ships recover faster from deep cap. A flat cap recharge bonus would do that. That way they at least have a niche role in giving the ship using them a slight bonus after getting neuted dry, a huge boost for tacklers who could at least run some of their modules more reliably.
(Sadly also a slight nos nerf, as many close tacklers like to use nos for a continuous stream of cap)
This idea really stood out to me. If cap batteries would change to something as dynamic as this, they would be very favorable mods to fit in a lot of situations.
But if more than one battery is fit on a ship, should it increase the size of capacitor it influences, or should the base recharge be increased?
also I'm not sure if it really would nerf nos since most close tacklers use their med slots for mwd's, scrams, and webs. And most frigates don't usually have more than 3 mediums; they would have to sacrifice at least the webber for it.
Cap rechargers already do this. By increasing recharge rate at all stages.
Cap batteries are analogous to shield extenders. Recharge rate proportional to total capacity and inversely proportional to recharge time. To increase rate, increase the rate directly, increase the total capacity, or reduce the recharge time. Cap Battery is the only way to increase capacity with a module. Works with Semiconductor Memory Cell rig the same way that shield extenders work with core defence field extenders.
I do agree that the sizes need work. Make XL available for BS, Large for BC and cruisers, medium for frigates. Or adjust the values of small to give medium size punch and so on up.
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About Mesale
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Posted - 2010.10.31 09:09:00 -
[35]
Edited by: About Mesale on 31/10/2010 09:15:35
Originally by: Arzamor
Cap rechargers already do this. By increasing recharge rate at all stages.
That is not entirely true. If the capacitor is completely or nearly completely empty, cap rechargers are rather bad at helping you recover. Depending on the size of your ship it can take several seconds before cap starts flowing again in sufficient quantities, since at very low cap levels the recharge rate decreases considerably.
A flat cap recharge bonus wouldn't affect the shape of the recharge curve, however it would mean that initial recovery is a lot faster, raising capacitor levels to the point that one could activate hardeners/tackle gear again.
That would neatly differentiate the battery from other cap recharge modules like pds, cpr, flux coils and rechargers at the cost of more pg usage and a spent medslot.
Originally by: Arzamor
Cap Battery is the only way to increase capacity with a module
Power Diagnostic System.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.10.31 09:58:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Whitehound on 31/10/2010 10:01:39
Originally by: About Mesale
A flat cap recharge bonus wouldn't affect the shape of the recharge curve, however it would mean that initial recovery is a lot faster, raising capacitor levels to the point that one could activate hardeners/tackle gear again.
That would neatly differentiate the battery from other cap recharge modules like pds, cpr, flux coils and rechargers at the cost of more pg usage and a spent medslot.
Dropping below the peak cap recharge gives an intentional penalty, and one needs to learn to stay above the peak or accept the longer recovery time. You should be glad that your are still flying something, which has got a capacitor.
The concept of the cap battery is fine. If you always run your capacitor dry then it is because you fail to micro manage your ship's energy.
Using the unpopularity of batteries to turn them into "perma cap boosters" and to help you avoid the micro management is nonsense. The discussion is about making batteries more popular. It is not about quickly abandoning them, then to create something new and finally expect it to become more popular.
Try using a cap booster for a quick recovery. They give you the flat recharge you are asking for and you can select from a wide variety of charges / recharge rates.
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wizard87
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Posted - 2010.10.31 10:27:00 -
[37]
Lots of useless modules in Eve. Seems CCP don't really give a toss - they just stroke chins and bluebar a topic like this once a year without actually changing anything.
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About Mesale
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Posted - 2010.10.31 10:33:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Whitehound
The concept of the cap battery is fine. If you always run your capacitor dry then it is because you fail to micro manage your ship's energy.
Hello Whitehound. This is my friend, the Energy Neutralizer.
Micromanage this.
It's hilarious that you're suggesting cap boosters when the purpose of flat-recharge batteries is to provide additional options for medslot caprecharge on pvp ships where injectors are the only option.
Might I suggest you read the thread before constructing strawmen?
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.10.31 11:00:00 -
[39]
Originally by: About Mesale
Hello Whitehound. This is my friend, the Energy Neutralizer.
Micromanage this.
So you lose. Is your point that you do not always win?
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.10.31 11:12:00 -
[40]
I think the only fit I have used a cap battery was a dual rep ishtar. cap battery makes it cap stable where a cap recharger doesn't
and I thought the main negatives to fitting a cap battery was cpu useage?
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About Mesale
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Posted - 2010.10.31 12:40:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: About Mesale
Hello Whitehound. This is my friend, the Energy Neutralizer.
Micromanage this.
So you lose. Is your point that you do not always win?
Can you make a real argument instead of throwing strawman arguments around? It's getting old fast.
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Meiyang Lee
Gallente
Azteca Transportation Unlimited
Gunboat Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.10.31 13:55:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Infinion
In my entire time playing eve, I think I only used a cap battery once and that was on a hauler to help me warp further when i didn't have warp drive operation trained at all.
Cap batteries are currently worthless for the capacity that they boost and the mid slot they take up.
They need a significant buff if anyone is ever going to consider using them in their fittings.
In PVP, you either have cap boosters that can reliably supply as much cap as a large cap battery every 12 seconds, or you fit cap rechargers and have your passive regen significantly boosted to give you enough of a time buffer to sustain you throughout the battle.
Considering the value of medium slots and the heavy fitting requirements of cap batteries, they just aren't a valuable or efficient module to use in any instance....at all.
The Sacrilege benefits an awful lot from a large cap battery II (as it's own built in cap-recharge bonus meshes well with the increased capacitor). Same goes with the Pilgrim as mentioned.
It's mainly useful for the Amarr ships, as those tend to be grid limited rather than CPU limited, giving them the option of fitting one. An oversized Cap Battery works wonders for total recharge per second and available cap.
Most other races' ships are CPU limited (take Gallente and Caldari as the prime examples here), with plenty of grid in most cases, making them less useful as batteries guzzle CPU, especially oversized ones.
Perhaps a rebalancing is needed for the module, but it's far from useless, more difficult to use for the majority of races perhaps, as they are more frequently limited by available CPU.
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Veliria
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Posted - 2010.10.31 14:51:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Veliria on 31/10/2010 14:53:39
Large Cap batteries have uses on Cruisers as they provide so much more cap that the passive recharge gets a bigger boost than it would from a Cap Recharger.
Not much use beyond that unless you're really looking for burst energy.
On my Arbitrator & variants and my Sacrilege they work really well though.
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.10.31 17:08:00 -
[44]
Originally by: About Mesale
Can you make a real argument instead of throwing strawman arguments around? It's getting old fast.
It was a real argument. You are not able to manage your ship's capacitor and therefore want something to make the recharge curve more constant. Why else would you want to change the curve?
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