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Dante Cowboy
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Posted - 2010.11.01 00:12:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Dante Cowboy on 01/11/2010 00:17:04
I'm trying to determine if I should buy ore off the market and then refine it myself rather than mine it. I have 100% RE on all hisec ore. My problem is (as I'm new to this) as how do I calculate the maximum price/unit I should spend on for XYZ ore that is sold on the market? Is there a calculator that does this?
I would rather buy it for the right price than have to spend my time mining it. My logic being that if the price is just right, I can use the minerals to build whatever items needed and maintain decent profit margins in terms of isk/hour. Does that sound right?
And is there a recommendation for a tool that will calculate how much ore I will get from a specific ship fitting and skillsets?
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Duke o'DeliMeats
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Posted - 2010.11.01 01:07:00 -
[2]
mining the ore yourself doesn't make it worth any less.
and just make a spreadsheet that calculates build costs for whatever it is you want to make. see where mineral prices make the profit no longer worthwhile.
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Kesshisan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.11.01 01:13:00 -
[3]
How much is your time worth?
If you can mine 100k isk worth of ore in 1 hour, but you can mission for 1m isk worth of profit in 1 hour, then your time is worth 1m isk per hour.
To be absolutely efficient, you should do the more profitable per hour activity. However, if you find yourself not enjoying, switch it up every once in a while.
Once you've determined what activity makes you the most isk per hour, then you will know if you should mine for the ore, or buy the ore and refine it.
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Dante Cowboy
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Posted - 2010.11.01 01:40:00 -
[4]
I really don't want to turn this into a "should I mine thread?". The answers are already starting to sway in that direction. I'm simply asking which available tools out there would allow me to do what I asked.
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rindeen
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Posted - 2010.11.01 02:07:00 -
[5]
what you can do mate find out how much the ore refines down to (there are sheet's out there some where though don't know any off the top of my head) but since you have 100% refine. just refine the min of each ore down to build a base up.. eg 333 unit's of veld yield Y amount of trit .. and each trit is worth X
then you will know what each ore is costing you verse net yield
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Kesshisan
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.11.01 04:37:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Dante Cowboy
I'm trying to determine if I should buy ore off the market and then refine it myself rather than mine it.
Originally by: Dante Cowboy
I really don't want to turn this into a "should I mine thread?".
I'm confused.
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Caldari 5
Amarr
The Element Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.11.01 08:51:00 -
[7]
Something like this? http://www.evegeek.com/orecalc.php
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.01 08:56:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Whitehound on 01/11/2010 08:59:49
You are making a mistake in believing that the market will deliver you the ore and minerals in the quantities you need. The market has got a will of his own, however. I suggest you set up buy orders for all the high-sec ores to competitive prices, then refine them and see how much you have. You then just lower the prices of what you need less, and increase them for what you need more. After a while will you get a feel for it.
Using a calculator is not helpful when you need specific quantities of minerals. You will only end up having to do new calculations every single time. It is more fun to this of the top of your head. This is my experience.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.11.01 13:19:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Akita T on 01/11/2010 13:23:46
Originally by: Dante Cowboy
I'm trying to determine if I should buy ore off the market and then refine it myself rather than mine it buy the minerals directly.
Fixed your OP.
As for the answer, use this : http://www.google.com/search?&q=ore+price+calculator
Originally by: Whitehound
You are making a mistake in believing that the market will deliver you the ore and minerals in the quantities you need.
Highlighted the not-always-accurate part.
If you're in or near a market hub, usually there should be no serious shortage of any minerals.
But yeah, if you're not exactly in a high-traffic area, you might have problems with that.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.01 15:09:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Akita T
Fixed your OP. ...
Highlighted the not-always-accurate part. ...
Once a troll, always a troll. 
The market is regulated by demand and offer as you will very likely know, Akita. He will have to adjust the prices of his buy orders to control the incoming volumes. No one here is talking about shortages.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.11.01 16:48:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Whitehound
The market is regulated by demand and offer[...]
And that's why I said not always accurate. In a hub, it's extremely unlikely one individual will ever manage to affect minerals or ore prices with whatever needs a single character might have.
Duuh.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.01 18:46:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Whitehound
The market is regulated by demand and offer[...]
And that's why I said not always accurate. In a hub, it's extremely unlikely one individual will ever manage to affect minerals or ore prices with whatever needs a single character might have.
Duuh.
What are you talking about, girl? You jump into a thread and fix people's comments and point out some inaccuracy, and from what I can see are you just talking nonsense. What does any of this have to do with the OP's idea?
Unless you can explain any of your nonsense does it just stay nonsense, and all you do is trolling. Let me ask you, would you feel it being appropriate if I jumped at your comments, to fix them and to point out some irrelevant stuff, because I think I have a much better plan? Probably not.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.11.01 20:45:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Akita T on 01/11/2010 20:49:51
Originally by: Whitehound
What are you talking about
About the fact the OP asked the question in a misleading way, which prompted a derailment into a "is it worth mining" train of chatter, as he has himself pointed out by his first reply.
Of course he will eventually have to buy some minerals directly too, but for the bulk of his minerals, he wanted to get the ores and refine them himself, to get minerals slightly cheaper. So he wanted to know if there are any calculators out there that can help him decide what price the ores are worth purchasing at, as opposed to simply purchasing all the minerals instead.
THAT is what I was talking about.
What were YOU talking about ?
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.01 21:34:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Whitehound on 01/11/2010 21:49:32
Originally by: Akita T
What were YOU talking about ?
I am talking about that he does not need to buy minerals. He starts with buying pyroxeres to get the nocxium and refines it. The tritanium, pyerite and mexallon, which comes with the pyroxeres gets sorted out. He then buys kernite and omber to get the isogen and refines it next. And so on. Eventually will he build up piles of minerals until he has got enough. Any excess in minerals he can sell on the market. It is better than paying someone else for refining (or reprocessing) when he has got the skills for it, too.
He also does not need a calculator. All he needs to do is to try to buy the ores for a cheap price, but not for the top prices. He only needs to look at the ore market but not the mineral market.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.11.01 23:01:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Whitehound
I am talking about that he does not need to buy minerals.
Except that what you describe immediately after is practically the same as buying minerals in certain types of packages and selling the excess.
Quote:
It is better than paying someone else for refining (or reprocessing) when he has got the skills for it, too.
Only if he gets the minerals cheaper this way.
Quote:
He also does not need a calculator. All he needs to do is to try to buy the ores for a cheap price, but not for the top prices. He only needs to look at the ore market but not the mineral market.
Yes, he does need to look at the mineral market. While normally the ores sell slightly cheaper than the component minerals, that's not guaranteed to be true. So, yeah, he totally DOES need a calculator for that. It's what he asked for in the OP.
What you're saying is basically "don't do the math, just buy ores cheap and HOPE it results in actually buying minerals cheaper this way".
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.01 23:47:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Akita T
Yes, he does need to look at the mineral market. While normally the ores sell slightly cheaper than the component minerals, that's not guaranteed to be true. So, yeah, he totally DOES need a calculator for that. It's what he asked for in the OP.
What you're saying is basically "don't do the math, just buy ores cheap and HOPE it results in actually buying minerals cheaper this way".
No, he does not need to. What you mean is that he can. He can look at the mineral market for an additional source of cheap minerals. And he can look at the item market for an additional source of cheap minerals.
However, everyone at the mineral market is equal and you get more competition. You also do not want to send him off to the mineral market and make it more crowded there.
Looking at the item market means he should have a perfect scrap metal processing skill.
Therefore, the best place for him to be at is the ore market, because there he can use his perfect refining skills to an advantage.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.11.02 00:24:00 -
[17]
What you say makes sense to the point of being the obvious, but it's not quite what the OP asked for.
All he asked for (in less clear terms and padded with additional less than relevant text) was the means to figure out what the "fair" price of ore is so he can know which to just purchase from the market if price is lower than that (as opposed to getting minerals in whatever form through other means).
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Dante Cowboy
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Posted - 2010.11.02 02:39:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Akita T
What you say makes sense to the point of being the obvious, but it's not quite what the OP asked for.
All he asked for (in less clear terms and padded with additional less than relevant text) was the means to figure out what the "fair" price of ore is so he can know which to just purchase from the market if price is lower than that (as opposed to getting minerals in whatever form through other means).
Yes- this is what I'm asking. Let me clear this up so there is no more arguing. My last sentenced asked if there is a tool that allows me to determine how of XYZ ore I will mine in a particilar ship and its relative fitting.
I already looked at calculators such as this http://www.evegeek.com/orecalc.php. But that doesn't help me unless I know how much ore I can mine in, say a retriever for an hour for XYZ ore. Once I know the amount, I can then run that calculator to determine my optimum number of units to buy based on the price.
Apologies for causing such a mess.
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Greg Huff
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Posted - 2010.11.02 12:58:00 -
[19]
Eve Fitting Tool
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.02 14:08:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Dante Cowboy
Apologies for causing such a mess.
You did not cause a mess. You started a rather interesting thread.
What are you going to use the mining yields for?
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.11.02 14:20:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Dante Cowboy
how much ore I can mine in, say a retriever for an hour for XYZ ore
Originally by: Greg Huff
Eve Fitting Tool (EFT)
EFT will list m^3 yield per minute (always the same before rounding for any ore you mine, rounding is made in whole numbers of ore units per mining laser or stripminer), divide that by ore volume (0.1 m^3 for Veldspar, 0.15 m^3 for Scordite, etc) to get number of ore units extracted per minute.
Alternatively, just use this link to get relatively up-to-date prices of ores (per m^3), multiply that ISK "fair price" by ore volume to find out the "fair price" of one ore unit (+5% or +10% for the corresponding variants).
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.02 16:15:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Whitehound on 02/11/2010 16:18:50
Originally by: Akita T
...
Your theory promises a great profit, but it leaves out the travelling time between the resource and the market, and the time spend fiddling with a calculator. In the praxis is it a waste of time.
The differences in prices for the high-sec ores are not this great to justify selective mining. What you ignore in your theory is that selective mining only works shortly after the downtime. In the evenings does one need to mine what others have left behind. One needs to fly around and find a belt, which has not yet been selectively mined and later get it to a station where one can refine it to the best conditions. Selective mining only works in remote systems. Selling the minerals requires one to haul the minerals to the market. The time spend on selective mining can be used to mine some more ore, any ore.
It also does not need a calculator to find out which the most valuable ore of the day is. You just take ore samples and refine one part and sell the minerals, and sell the other part of the samples unrefined. Which ever sample pays the most is the way to go.
It is best to find a system with good prices for ores (or minerals) and just mine and sell directly within the system. It is less effort and one can use the time to think about what to do with the ISKs.
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Greg Huff
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Posted - 2010.11.02 17:08:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Greg Huff on 02/11/2010 17:11:41
You two are debating over how SOMEONE ELSE should spend their time??? Really?!! 
Just present the OP with his options and let him choose the best way to spend his time. It's not like you're talking about a multi-billion isk difference in operation.
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Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.11.02 17:25:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Whitehound
praxis[...]theory[...]promises[...]difference[...]remote system
If your definition of "remote systems" means "more than 3 jumps away from Jita or other trade hubs", then yeah, you're absolutely and totally right, selective mining is a waste of time mere hours after DT. However, going by that definition, there are far more "remote systems" than non-remote ones.
And besides, the highest-value highsec ore that can be found in relatively ample quantities is Pyroxeres, from which 100 m^3 refines into 10.34 m^3 of minerals (for the basic version), out of which given the typical ship-building usage ratios, leaves you with an excess of 0.67 m^3 mexallon and 0.08 m^3 nocxium, alongside a 1.52 m^3 shortage of pyerite and 0.13 m^3 shortage of isogen (megacyte and zydrine have negligible volumes anyway). So, for every 100,000 m^3 of ore you mine (1-3 hours of mining), you need to move roughly 750 m^3 of minerals to the market and come back with under 1700 m^3 of minerals, if your plan is to build assorted ships.
Originally by: Whitehound
It is best to
Considering what the OP wants to do with the minerals, it's best if he focuses on how to get the minerals as cheap as possible from the market, and only the market. The mineral needs of a manufacturing character far outstrip the mining capability of one mining character, so the sooner he forgets about the fact he could be mining himself at all, the better.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
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Whitehound
The Whitehound Corporation
The Chamber of Commerce
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Posted - 2010.11.02 17:35:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Greg Huff
You two are debating over how SOMEONE ELSE should spend their time??? Really?!!
Just present the OP with his options and let him choose the best way to spend his time. It's not like you're talking about a multi-billion isk difference in operation.
Akita thinks it is good to spend as much time as possible on worrying about making enough ISKs.
I think it is better to spend the time on thinking about something else while making ISKs.
You think it is better not to discuss the pros and cons, but value a good trolling.
I, too, buy ores. I buy up to a billion ISKs worth of ore every day. So I hereby officially fail at countering your argument of it not being a multi-billion ISK difference when for me it is only one billion ISKs. Official fail. 
I say the OP shall pick a winner.
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Celgar Thurn
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.02 17:53:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Celgar Thurn on 02/11/2010 17:55:06
Hmmm. To work out how much you will be able to mine in an hour in your Retriever just go and mine for an hour.
I would say there is at least 15% profit to be made from buying ore in high sec,refining it,then selling the minerals on if you decided to do that with a limited amount of hauling time required IF you wanted to do that.The 15% figure is based on my refining skills which are not as good as yours so you would make more than 15%. This is based on the [censored] ore type in the [censored] region of high sec. I don't and won't be doing this but I can see the profit is there.
If you want the minerals for manufacturing You will have to compare the returns on the other 'activities' you do compared to the cost of buying the ore as others have said.I don't know where you are in the game in terms of capabilities but,for example, you will make more from mining in a Retriever than doing lvl 1 missions.
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Xearal
Minmatar
SOL Industries
Black Thorne Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.02 18:50:00 -
[27]
buying ore and turning it into minerals can be quite profitable, I used to do it a lot, mooching on my CEO's perfect refine skills when I was playing around in metropolis region. I had a couple of spots where a lot of semi-noob miners mined regularly, and didn't feel like reprocessing/moving said mined ore, so they sold it to me, I moved it, or had him refine it locally, and made quite a bundle on it.
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Emporer Norton
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Posted - 2010.11.02 19:03:00 -
[28]
Yes it can be profitable to buy ore to refine I'd say price about 10-15% lower then value of refined minerals at perfect refine with no standings or .01 isk higher then lowest buy order whichever is lowest refine with perfect standings profit
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Berikath
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Posted - 2010.11.02 20:51:00 -
[29]
Google search yielded this for a mineral calculator. It gives you a value per m3, so you can do a comparison between different ores. If you want, you can just multiply the value by the size of a unit of ore to get the value per unit, or can search for one of the zillions of other calculators which give it automatically.
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Wish list for PI:
*One-click input routing
*Copy product, inputs & outputs in factories
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wizard87
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Posted - 2010.11.03 02:33:00 -
[30]
Edited by: wizard87 on 03/11/2010 02:35:39
On a similar note i'd be interested to know what isk you make on an hourly rate mining each stuff (assuming max skills with max skilled support/hauling etc)...
So if I spent 1b on trit, I could work out how many hours of mining would that equate to for example?
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