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Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1239
|
Posted - 2012.08.05 23:30:00 -
[31] - Quote
No More Heroes wrote:If 500m is a hardship to you, you need to be doing other things than declaring war on goons. Please see your nearest level 4 agent. Maybe they're miners.... are the l4 mining missions commonly done? Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

ashley Eoner
38
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 00:32:00 -
[32] - Quote
Demolishar wrote:Lady Whipcrack wrote: even the monocled elite take exception to 1.5bn a week of war bills for deccing three alliances... it's insane
I
Any true monocleer would easily pay that cost. I make more than that DAILY. PIF such a poor boy. I make that in a minute! |

sYnc Vir
Wolfsbrigade Lost Obsession
293
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 00:44:00 -
[33] - Quote
500m is pretty cheap, Goons are terribad at eve, ask them they announce it proudly. Seems pretty cheap, though given they live in null, where wardecs are pointless. It would be easier to spend 500m on some ships and just go shoot them. |

Ris Dnalor
Black Rebel Rifter Club The Devil's Tattoo
408
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 00:51:00 -
[34] - Quote
Lady Whipcrack wrote:Please tell me how this new wardec system is supposed to be 'better'?
Apart from the obvious minor benefit that war is slightly easier to administer, it seems setup to protect large alliances. Not that alliances even have to be that large before war costs become painful for smaller corporations.
So please explain to me how this is an improvement on the old system. For everyone apart from massive alliances, that is.
In short, it's vastly more expensive to declare war. Why? It's not like 0.0 alliances don't enjoy targets in empire as a break from 0.0 blobbage, so this change seems to benefit no-one (apart from Solar Citizens)
if you can't afford 500m easily, then wardeccing goonswarm would be rather pointless. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=118961
EvE = Everybody Vs. Everybody
- Qolde |

Demolishar
United Aggression
327
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 01:13:00 -
[35] - Quote
ashley Eoner wrote:Demolishar wrote:Lady Whipcrack wrote: even the monocled elite take exception to 1.5bn a week of war bills for deccing three alliances... it's insane
I
Any true monocleer would easily pay that cost. I make more than that DAILY. PIF such a poor boy. I make that in a minute!
How can I believe you when you don't have a monocle?  |

Bootleg Jack
Potters Field
224
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 01:15:00 -
[36] - Quote
Lady Whipcrack wrote:Please tell me how this new wardec system is supposed to be 'better'?
Apart from the obvious minor benefit that war is slightly easier to administer, it seems setup to protect large alliances. Not that alliances even have to be that large before war costs become painful for smaller corporations.
So please explain to me how this is an improvement on the old system. For everyone apart from massive alliances, that is.
In short, it's vastly more expensive to declare war. Why? It's not like 0.0 alliances don't enjoy targets in empire as a break from 0.0 blobbage, so this change seems to benefit no-one (apart from Solar Citizens)
Lets see ~10,000 / 500 = 20 wts per million.
Seems like goons are less than a million a dozen  I'm an American, English is my second language... |

MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
1068
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 01:26:00 -
[37] - Quote
you don't need to declare war in null sec. I'm confused http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1240
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 01:40:00 -
[38] - Quote
sYnc Vir wrote:500m is pretty cheap, Goons are terribad at eve, ask them they announce it proudly. Seems pretty cheap, though given they live in null, where wardecs are pointless. It would be easier to spend 500m on some ships and just go shoot them. That wouldn't even get you a Loki, I think Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

Maxpie
Metaphysical Utopian Society Explorations
171
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 04:24:00 -
[39] - Quote
I love this thread. Everyone wants to troll, but nobody has a real answer to the op's question. It's herp derp heaven. |

Vince Arron
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
25
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 04:31:00 -
[40] - Quote
Lady Whipcrack wrote:Shukuzen Kiraa wrote:Lady Whipcrack wrote:Cadfael Maelgwyn wrote:Why do you need to wardec Goons anyway? They live in nullsec, where you can shoot them no matter what, and not even lose sec status. that's right, they never set foot in empire or use trade hubs....  So bring the fight to them instead of being lazy and waiting for them to wander into high sec. would you like my 5 man corp to go capture their stations? war declarations exist to provide fighting in empire, that is the point of them - they are nothing to do with 0.0 territorial war the point I am making is that the new wardec system seems to make declaring war on alliances vastly more expensive than it was previously - why is that necessary? the only beneficiaries are large alliances, who won't give a toss about the cost when declaring war themselves, but are protected from wardecs from smaller entities - that seems bizarre, why was this change necessary? it seems a strange change for the worse
There is this thing called roaming. and gathering Intel of enemy movements. you are not going to take all of goon space with 5 people but you can go in with a scout and 4 assault Frigs and kill ratters. Or you can keep bawling on the forums, whatever. |

Soundwave Plays Diablo
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
76
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 04:45:00 -
[41] - Quote
The new war dec system sucks bad.
With neutral's and open enrollment for the defender, its a total ******* joke.
I war dec'd a 13 man corp, wound up with over 50 people on my watchlist.
|

Ashrik Tyr
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 04:46:00 -
[42] - Quote
I haven't talked to our personal CCP liason yet, but if I had to guess then I'd say that CCP gets that the obvious point of empire wardecs against large null groups are for the sole purpose of getting easy ganks on solo people carrying loot into/out of hisec.
So maybe they only want to encourage hisec "wars" that are actually wars instead of things used to pad killstats and get easy loot. |

Soundwave Plays Diablo
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
76
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 05:08:00 -
[43] - Quote
Ashrik Tyr wrote:I haven't talked to our personal CCP liason yet, but if I had to guess then I'd say that CCP gets that the obvious point of empire wardecs against large null groups are for the sole purpose of getting easy ganks on solo people carrying loot into/out of hisec.
So maybe they only want to encourage hisec "wars" that are actually wars instead of things used to pad killstats and get easy loot.
Your ignorance is absolutely legendary.
What war have you been involved in where shutting down the supply line was not an obvious goal? Lol if you seriously were.
Easy ganks a problem for you? You're in the wrong fuckin corp if they are.
If its easy to take something significant from the biggest alliance in the game the game must be broken huh?
|

Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
254
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 07:03:00 -
[44] - Quote
Ashrik Tyr wrote:I haven't talked to our personal CCP liason yet, but if I had to guess then I'd say that CCP gets that the obvious point of empire wardecs against large null groups are for the sole purpose of getting easy ganks on solo people carrying loot into/out of hisec.
So maybe they only want to encourage hisec "wars" that are actually wars instead of things used to pad killstats and get easy loot.
I would think that a "large null group" would be able to protect its people carrying loot into hisec?
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. |

Skippermonkey
Tactical Knightmare
1241
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 10:06:00 -
[45] - Quote
Lady Whipcrack wrote:Aruken Marr wrote:Want more targets? Pay more... pay vastly more than the old system? why? please explain why the change was necessary http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/24507212.jpg
i shouldnt need to say anymore My homeboys tried to warn me But that butt you got makes me so horny |

Sentamon
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
105
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 10:19:00 -
[46] - Quote
CCP is a lot like most western governments. They talk a big game about helping the small guy, but do everything to benefit and protect the established big players.
... and don't expect this to change. CCP, or any other game devs, will never be able to withstand the self righteous rage all over the gaming sites from the big organizations if CCP does anything to damage their hold on power. ~ Professional Forum Alt -á~ |

Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1597
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 10:23:00 -
[47] - Quote
Jint Hikaru wrote:I would think that a "large null group" would be able to protect its people carrying loot into hisec?
I would think that you've obviously never been in any corporation with other people in it EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |

Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1597
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 10:26:00 -
[48] - Quote
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote:Your ignorance is absolutely legendary.
What war have you been involved in where shutting down the supply line was not an obvious goal? Lol if you seriously were.
Easy ganks a problem for you? You're in the wrong fuckin corp if they are.
If its easy to take something significant from the biggest alliance in the game the game must be broken huh?
"shutting down the supply line" goddamn i love armchair generals in eve
nobody anywhere runs anything of importance from hisec to nullsec with characters in the alliance EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |

Kryss Darkdust
The Skulls
64
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 10:51:00 -
[49] - Quote
I never found it very difficult to go to war with big alliances... just join the alliance they are at war with and you can fight them till pigs learn to fly.
On a side note, I generally prefer to antagonize people into war decing me, rather than paying for it. Seems a silly concept to me to pay to be allowed to kill someone. |

Cede Forster
EVE University Ivy League
12
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 10:53:00 -
[50] - Quote
you could also ask nicely if they could declare war against you, asking wont hurt right?  |

Nyla Skin
Maximum fun chamber
74
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 11:16:00 -
[51] - Quote
Soundwave Plays Diablo wrote: Your ignorance is absolutely legendary.
What war have you been involved in where shutting down the supply line was not an obvious goal? Lol if you seriously were.
Easy ganks a problem for you? You're in the wrong fuckin corp if they are.
If its easy to take something significant from the biggest alliance in the game the game must be broken huh?
This must be one of the most hilarious posts Ive read in a while. I applaud you.
While its true that CCP has created a system where everything favors the large alliance, the wardec costs arent the thing to do something about it. They are completely irrelevant. |

Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1597
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 11:54:00 -
[52] - Quote
Nyla Skin wrote:While its true that CCP has created a system where everything favors the large alliance
you mean to say that this "massively multiplayer online game" is inherently inclined to favor larger groups?
you don't say, i will tweet everyone in the gaming media about this with haste EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |

Colonel Xaven
Decadence. RAZOR Alliance
118
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 11:58:00 -
[53] - Quote
Aruken Marr wrote:Want more targets? Pay more...
Pretty much this and
Cede Forster wrote:you could also ask nicely if they could declare war against you, asking wont hurt right? 
this (awesome workaround btw!) |

Lady Whipcrack
The Monocled Elite
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 14:26:00 -
[54] - Quote
Ris Dnalor wrote:Lady Whipcrack wrote:Please tell me how this new wardec system is supposed to be 'better'?
Apart from the obvious minor benefit that war is slightly easier to administer, it seems setup to protect large alliances. Not that alliances even have to be that large before war costs become painful for smaller corporations.
So please explain to me how this is an improvement on the old system. For everyone apart from massive alliances, that is.
In short, it's vastly more expensive to declare war. Why? It's not like 0.0 alliances don't enjoy targets in empire as a break from 0.0 blobbage, so this change seems to benefit no-one (apart from Solar Citizens) if you can't afford 500m easily, then wardeccing goonswarm would be rather pointless.
I can afford it, it just seems poor value for money compared to the old system.
What I want to know is why this change was necessary, as it seems to benefit no-one. Everyone likes wardecs except large renter alliances like Solar Citizens. |

Lady Whipcrack
The Monocled Elite
2
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 14:34:00 -
[55] - Quote
Vince Arron wrote:
There is this thing called roaming. and gathering Intel of enemy movements. you are not going to take all of goon space with 5 people but you can go in with a scout and 4 assault Frigs and kill ratters. Or you can keep bawling on the forums, whatever.
or maybe I could carry on asking the legitimate question of why the new wardec system seeks to 'protect' large alliances from smaller entities?
the old system wasn't perfect, but it was better than the new one - why was the change necessary and who exactly benefits from it?
I'm sure Goonswarm would be perfectly happy to have lots of crappy small corps wardec them in empire, for some easy lulz away from the blobbage... well, that isn't going to happen with the new wardec system, and I think that's a shame for all concerned |

Sarik Olecar
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
63
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 16:07:00 -
[56] - Quote
Sarik's Six Simple Steps To Nullsec Tears
1.0 - Create an alt with a humorous name or avatar.
2.0 - Allot sufficient time to allow for training of a Cloaking Device. To maximize your tear collection, consider training for a Covert Operations, ship or possibly even a Tech 3 or Recon cruiser.
3.0 - Research popular alliances with regards to they're rental and ratting policies. Try to find exact systems or constellations where these activity occur, as they are good indicates of the presence of null bears.
4.0 - After fitting your newly acquired stealth and/or stealth-combat ship, begin your journey to systems which your research indicates has the highest probability of "nullbearing". Be warned that many nullsec creatures are territorial, and will not take kindly to your trespassing, so be sure to lure how to avoid traps such as Gate Camps.
5.0 - Once you've arrived at your destination, survey the surrounding area and examine the local wildlife. Once you've confirmed that your choice system does in fact contain ample game, locate yourself to a safe-spot or other celestial and activate your Cloaking Device.
6.0 - Frightened by your presence, the null bear will often retreat to its habitat, attempting to wait out your intrusion. This leaves the null bear without any means of ISK generation, and will eventually starve - remaining unable to contribute to his alliance rent. These action will ripple upwards, so be sure as to place your cup so that you can maximize you tear harvesting.
Bonus Step - Some locals may attempt to continue "nullbearing" in-spite of your presence, and may even become complacent to you. This is counterproductive, and without reparation my invalidate your actions. By having a cloaked recon or Tech 3 you leave the ability to place small hit-and-run attacks on the unsuspecting. This will not only maintain the null bear's fear of you, but also increase your tear harvest significantly. |

Richard Desturned
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1597
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 16:08:00 -
[57] - Quote
you should tell them the isk/hr in afk cloaking EVE Online: Trammel (or NGE) |

Sarik Olecar
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
63
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 16:10:00 -
[58] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:you should tell them the isk/hr in afk cloaking
Once they learn the joy of being an ass, Tears/hr is all they'll ever know... |

Alavaria Fera
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1241
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 16:13:00 -
[59] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:you should tell them the isk/hr in afk cloaking Never not isk per hour when afk cloaking.
Or ganking for that matter. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd Click for old school EVE Portraits: http://jadeconstantine.web44.net/Maison.htm |

Lady Whipcrack
The Monocled Elite
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 20:48:00 -
[60] - Quote
have ccp actually said why cost is based on the target rather than the corporation/alliance who are declaring war?
I mean, it even makes lol-RP sense: CONCORD licenses are allocated to the party declaring war, therefore it is more expensive for large entities to declare war than smaller ones
it also stops protecting large entities by creating ISK barriers, and promotes wardecs by scaling affordablity in a sensible manner |
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