| Pages: [1] :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Lord Steffwyn
   |
Posted - 2010.11.07 09:51:00 -
[1]
Well I have finally trained my wife's character to the point that she can fly a hulk. But give the cost of the damn thing, is it worth it for a few hours a week mining trit in hi-sec (which is all the mining I get to do at the moment).
Thanks in advance for your advice and views :)
|
Carniflex
StarHunt
R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2010.11.07 09:58:00 -
[2]
Higher isk/h is always better. If you are flying solo and docking up to drop off the ore then Hulk is definitely worth it in hi sec as it has considerably bigger cargo hold.
Real answer to your question however lies in the expected lifespan of this Hulk vs. the T1 barge. With long enough expected lifespan it will be eventually be worth it even if all you mine is 2 hours per week.
|
Adunh Slavy
|
Posted - 2010.11.07 10:04:00 -
[3]
If it really is your wife's, and she plays too, and you put her in a covetor, when you could have bought her a hulk for pretend money ... shouldn't be too difficult to figure out.
The Real Space Initiative - V6 (Forum Link)
|
Lord Steffwyn
|
Posted - 2010.11.07 10:13:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Adunh Slavy
If it really is your wife's, and she plays too, and you put her in a covetor, when you could have bought her a hulk for pretend money ... shouldn't be too difficult to figure out.
Ah - when you put it like that lol :)
|
Durnin Stormbrow
|
Posted - 2010.11.08 18:36:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Durnin Stormbrow on 08/11/2010 18:37:31
Here's a re-post of some info I had posted some time ago. The prices and values may be a bit dated, but the concept still holds true.
I hope it helps 
*****
If you really need someone to break it down, here it is: the Hulk is @#$!ing expensive. The cost of your ship is overhead that you need to pay back before you can begin to realize any profits.
Compare these two ships:
[Hulk, Max Mine]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Survey Scanner II
Small C5-L Emergency Shield Overload I
Basic Heat Dissipation Amplifier
Basic Heat Dissipation Amplifier
3x Modulated Strip Miner II, [take your pick] Mining Crystal II
2x Medium Drone Mining Augmentor I
5x Mining Drone II
5x Hobgoblin II
[Covetor, Max Mine]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Expanded Cargohold II
Survey Scanner II
3x Modulated Strip Miner II, [take your pick] Mining Crystal II
Medium Drone Mining Augmentor I
Medium Cargohold Optimization I
Medium Cargohold Optimization I
5x Mining Drone II
Assume that both ships have max skill orca support support, and are piloted by max skilled players having these mid-level implants:
Slot6 KMB-50
Slot7 KVA1000
Slot8 Zet300
Slot9 KYA1000
Slot10 HX-1
Here's how the numbers would stack up:
Cov Hulk
M3/min 2316 vs 2845 +23%
Cargo 6745 vs 8000 +19%
EHP 5755 vs 10778 +87%
HP/s 8 vs 63 +788%
Cost 15,3M vs 151M +987% (Jita price, [at posting on 10.7.09])
(God, I hate trying to format tables in forum posts)
With the cost of fittings being pretty much the same, I'll assume both pilots only need to pay off their hulls.
IF they're mining in hi-sec, and the Hulk is pulling in 10Misk/hr, then the Covetor is getting 8,140,598isk/hr.
After 1.89 mining hours, the Covetor is paid off and begins earning profit.
After 15.18 mining hours, the Hulk is paid off and begins earning profit. At that same point, the Covetor has earned just over 108Misk in profit.
Catching up at a rate of (10m-8.14m)isk/hr = 1.859isk/hr, it will take an additional 58.18 mining hours for the Hulk pilot's profit to have matched the Covetor pilots. And keep in mind, those 58 hours are time spent with beam on rocks, not moving, hauling hiding, or station spinning.
So, you need to weigh the risk of getting ganked against the value of the rocks you're mining and the opportunity cost of the money spent on the Hulk that may have been better invested elsewhere.
|
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
|
Posted - 2010.11.08 21:01:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Durnin Stormbrow
(God, I hate trying to format tables in forum posts)
Use [code] tags. Also, make sure that for every value in each column has the same length (i.e. padding with spaces or leading zeros where necessary) before separating with tab characters.
---
34.4:1 mineral compression |
Brock Nelson
Caldari
Flux Technologies Inc
SRS.
|
Posted - 2010.11.08 21:52:00 -
[7]
You know that account sharing is against EULA right?
Originally by: Brock Nelson
OP's question is translated as: Help, I'm a female stuck in a man's body, can Incarna help?
|
Adunh Slavy
|
Posted - 2010.11.08 23:09:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Brock Nelson
You know that account sharing is against EULA right?
The Real Space Initiative - V6 (Forum Link)
|
Akita T
Caldari
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
|
Posted - 2010.11.09 00:27:00 -
[9]
Edited by: Akita T on 09/11/2010 00:32:36
Originally by: Brock Nelson
You know that account sharing is against EULA right?
Actually, various CCP employees have occasionally stated in the past in a not-really-official fashion that that particular rule is NEVER enforced for "members of the same household", and very seldom enforced (only if somebody petitions them specifically or something like that, and not even then sometimes) even if the claimed//listed account owners are unrelated persons, and also for people that match family names. In fact, it's probably never enforced without a petition that has a good reason (like, oh, say, alliance cynonets, and sometimes not even then).
Account sharing is mainly against the EULA as a CCP "cover our behinds" policy in case one sharer chooses to do something fishy that the other sharer doesn't like, and the dispute would have to be resolved by CCP because the sharers do not come in physical contact. That's obviously not so much of a problem for families (preferably under the same roof) or flatmates.
_
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting
_
|
Glorious CEO
|
Posted - 2010.11.09 01:16:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Durnin Stormbrow
*stuff on Hulks*
You're missing the 25M for the Exhumers skillbook. Also, I advise the OP to do his own calculations. The posted fittings are the best you can possible get. The results at Exhumers 3 or 4 with just one MLU and a cargo fit and no Orca (drone skills are flawless, right?) are a tad more depressing.
|
|
|
Valnara Tam
|
Posted - 2010.11.09 01:33:00 -
[11]
Its better using a hulk then it is using a Kestrel...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kftV3h_QveA
...lol
|
Celestine Santora
|
Posted - 2010.11.09 04:36:00 -
[12]
Hisec mining
Worth it
Pick 1
|
rindeen
|
Posted - 2010.11.09 07:13:00 -
[13]
is it worth it? Yes and no if you watch you hulk and keep your eye on it with a fair tank an all that yes. as your chance of loosing it goes down. When or if I mine I figure I would rather pull rocks as fast as I can then worry about the cost of the barge. As I do fine mining boring at times but sometimes is is nice to sit back read a book while the strippers work. My vote for you would be you might as well pick it up for her. It is not going to hurt anything and just keep a descent tank on it.
|
Aphrodite Skripalle
Galactic Defence Consortium
|
Posted - 2010.11.09 07:58:00 -
[14]
High sec mining isnt worth doing in a hulk.
Its also not worth doing in a covetor. The problem is the high sec. Go and find a 0.0 space corporation and use a covetor first, after 2 days you can afford to loose a hulk.
|
Carniflex
StarHunt
R.A.G.E
|
Posted - 2010.11.09 09:49:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Brock Nelson
You know that account sharing is against EULA right?
As Akita pointed out account sharing with your family members is not considered EULA violation. Too lazy to dig up the relevant quotes atm.
|
My Postman
|
Posted - 2010.11.09 14:42:00 -
[16]
Highsec mining in a hulk without orca boost will make you about 5m/hour, mining kernite/plagio.
Please, for gods sake, don¦t take it out untanked, like this fitting above. At least a little compromise like that:
Low:
DC II
Expanded Cargohold II
Mid:
Heat Dissipation Amplifier II
Photon Scattering Field II
Invu II
Rock Scanner
High:
3 x Strips
Rigs:
Med. Cargohold Optimization I
Shield Rig
Drones:
5 x Miners
5 x Hobgoblins II
As far as i can remember (i am at work atm) this will have 20k EHP with decents shied skills. Lough at half-arsed ganking attempts. Cry when BS turns on the disco lights (no tank will save you than).
BTW if wife enjoys mining, why not giving her a "sweety"
|
Durnin Stormbrow
|
Posted - 2010.11.09 15:03:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Durnin Stormbrow on 09/11/2010 15:04:34
Originally by: My Postman
Please, for gods sake, don¦t take it out untanked, like this fitting above.
The example above is a min/max case designed to demonstrate the relative lack of cost effectiveness of a Hulk, even in its best light. If I had presented the Hulk with a tank on it, peeps would have *****ed that I intentionally skewed the results to make the Hulk look worse than it is.
With that said, anything you do to add survivability to the Hulk will nerf its M3/Hr and/or cargo capacity, bringing it more in line with the yield of a Covetor, that doesn't cost enough to bother tanking.
If your tanked Hulk is little or no better than a Covetor, then just fly a Covetor and keep the 100+Misk in your pocket.
|
Lord Steffwyn
|
Posted - 2010.11.10 10:13:00 -
[18]
Dear All, thanks for the helpful replies. It is the friendly and helpful players in this game that keep me playing :)
It will probably take me a few weeks of mining to get back the cost of a hulk, but at least I now know that at some point I will break even :)
Since I more worried about survivability, I will definately be heading towards the more tank sort of fitting (and thanks for the fits as well).
Fortunatly, I run two accounts (mine and the missus), so cargo space and hauling is not really a problem.
Thanks again.
|
My Postman
|
Posted - 2010.11.12 15:24:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Durnin Stormbrow
Edited by: Durnin Stormbrow on 09/11/2010 17:06:35
Originally by: My Postman
Please, for gods sake, don¦t take it out untanked, like this fitting above.
The example above is a min/max case designed to demonstrate the relative lack of cost effectiveness of a Hulk, even in its best light. If I had presented the Hulk with a tank on it, peeps would have *****ed that I intentionally skewed the results to make the Hulk look worse than it is.
With that said, anything you do to add survivability to the Hulk will nerf its M3/Hr and/or cargo capacity, bringing it more in line with the yield of a Covetor, that doesn't cost enough to bother tanking.
If your tanked Hulk is little or no better than a Covetor, then just fly a Covetor and keep the 100+Misk in your pocket.
Edit:
To put the tanked Hulk into perspective:
The MaxMine Covetor I posted above will yield 1578m3/min without gang bonuses or implants.
The tanked Hulk you posted (using TII strips) will get 1614M3/min with max skills and no implants or gang.
Drop Exhumer skill to IV and the Hulk yields 1580m3/min. That's a gain of 2m3 over the Covetor with a mining upgrade.
You're paying more than 100Misk for the cargo hold and the tank. That price tag is the only real reason it even needs the tank in the 1st place, and if you have a corp or an alt, you don't need the cargo hold.
Did¦nt intend to assault you (and your fitting). Of course these are the ultimate mining machines.
But where are you willing to take such a paper thin vessel? All i can imagine i would take this out would be a mining op in a closed system (by lots of guards).
There are enough of those on the hulkageddon killmail list, and when you see "something" on d-scan you have to GTFO, even in highsec.
Again, no offence, i would¦nt want to sit in (paranoia?) but if you do, enjoy.
|
Durnin Stormbrow
|
Posted - 2010.11.12 18:20:00 -
[20]
Originally by: My Postman
Did¦nt intend to assault you (and your fitting). Of course these are the ultimate mining machines.
But where are you willing to take such a paper thin vessel? All i can imagine i would take this out would be a mining op in a closed system (by lots of guards).
There are enough of those on the hulkageddon killmail list, and when you see "something" on d-scan you have to GTFO, even in highsec.
Again, no offence, i would¦nt want to sit in (paranoia?) but if you do, enjoy.
No offence taken. I was never trying to suggest any given Hulk fitting vs any other, my original point was to compare the real business value (any mining op is business) of using the Hulk in the 1st place rather than simply using the Covetor. I fail to understand why so many players are dead set on dismissing the Covetor and choose to use the Hulk in any situation.
The Hulk is like the Diemos. It's better than the Thorax in every possible way, and it's faster than the Brutix with comparable firepower. Yet most PvPers choose not to fly the Diemos because they expect to loose that ship at some point and they know it has a bull's eye painted on it. Its advantages are simply not good enough to be worth the extra cost and attention.
Miners act as though they expect to NOT loose their ship, so any cost is acceptable to get greater potential M3/hr. Then they fit a low-slot tank to protect their investment, meaning they get minimal or no real gains in yield or cargo capacity. Over time, their business could have gained more by using cheaper tools and accepting periodic ship loss as a cost of doing business.
|
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |