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Solena Rain	Posted - 2010.11.08 15:55:00 - [1] CCP, when you designed a sandbox game I'm sure your intention was to make it the best and most excellent game that was fun for everyone to play. So I'm just curious but how does grief play add any value to playing eve online? Sure it rewards the people who like to grief but what about the 90percent of people who don't care one bit for this style of gameplay? I would like to see more players in eve online and I understand that the game is meant to be difficult but why reward those who insist on adding little to no value to your game? In the end your company is a business and as a business you want to have more people paying for accounts not less or am I wrong about that and you really don't want more players to join?
Aiwha Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2010.11.08 16:06:00 - [2] I kill people simply because I enjoy watching the little red bars crawl onward. ---- Gullible
Mytzso Private Nuisance Segregati0n	Posted - 2010.11.08 16:11:00 - [3] Originally by: Solena Rain CCP, troll troll troll *** * * If you don't like something take your spatula and bucket and GET THE ** OUT OF MY SANDBOX!
Lords Hunter Interstellar Brotherhood of Gravediggers The 0rphanage	Posted - 2010.11.08 16:12:00 - [4] Edited by: Lords Hunter on 08/11/2010 16:12:56 Originally by: Solena Rain CCP, when you designed a sandbox game I'm sure your intention was to make it the best and most excellent game that was fun for everyone to play. So I'm just curious but how does carebearing play add any value to playing eve online? Sure it rewards the people who like to carebear but what about the 90percent of people who don't care one bit for this style of gameplay? I would like to see more players in eve online and I understand that the game is meant to be difficult but why reward those who insist on adding little to no value to your game? In the end your company is a business and as a business you want to have more people paying for accounts not less or am I wrong about that and you really don't want more players to join? Fixed it for you...see goes eitherway
Aiwha Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2010.11.08 16:16:00 - [5] Originally by: Lords Hunter Edited by: Lords Hunter on 08/11/2010 16:12:56 Originally by: Solena Rain CCP, when you designed a sandbox game I'm sure your intention was to make it the best and most excellent game that was fun for everyone to play. So I'm just curious but how does carebearing play add any value to playing eve online? Sure it rewards the people who like to carebear but what about the 90percent of people who don't care one bit for this style of gameplay? I would like to see more players in eve online and I understand that the game is meant to be difficult but why reward those who insist on adding little to no value to your game? In the end your company is a business and as a business you want to have more people paying for accounts not less or am I wrong about that and you really don't want more players to join? Fixed it for you...see goes eitherway He didn't say pvp, just griefing. ---- Gullible
Tyburn Stannis Xenon Salvage Inc.	Posted - 2010.11.08 16:16:00 - [6] Edited by: Tyburn Stannis on 08/11/2010 16:22:00 If CCP reacted like the majority of other hand-holding spoon-feeding mass-market-massively-multiplayer games companies, EVE's net playerbase would more than likely go DOWN not up, as the players who subscribe for the freedom and maturity level would move on if it were taken away and the game reduced to Carebears-In-Space. Everybody hugging each other and no being nawty and fighting with the other kids or mommy CCP will tell you off. Yeuch. Besides which, "griefing" is a subjective term, and saying it adds nothing to the game is an entirely personal and selfish opinion. Getting a team of people from all over the world working together, finally making a ship kill or claiming soveriegnty, co-ordinating your escape or planning your attack... all actions performed against other players. And all actions requiring teamwork, communication and plannning - generally accepted to be "postive" qualities, and certainly both enjoyable and rewarding. You want to play a certain way, and you want the game changed to protect or reward that playstyle - but at the same time you don't want anyone else to play the way they want. Hypocrite much? If you really think someone is making it personal and you're typing this between sneezing into the tear-stains on your hankie, maybe consider a) you deserved it in some way, maybe you started a fight in some way and now you decide you don't like it when they fought back with a bigger stick, or b) you can use the EXISTING functions to report that one person for that one instance if there really is something unusually vindictive goiong on. Or we could... ya know... re-write the whole game. Game code, guidelines, the lot. Just for you.
Lady Spank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.11.08 16:18:00 - [7] Originally by: Solena Rain why reward those who insist on adding little to no value to your game? Agreed, nerf carebearing thanks. ~_~
De'Veldrin Minmatar Green-Core The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.11.08 16:34:00 - [8] Originally by: Solena Rain CCP, when you designed a sandbox game I'm sure your intention was to make it the best and most excellent game that was fun for everyone to play. So I'm just curious but how does grief play add any value to playing eve online? Sure it rewards the people who like to grief but what about the 90percent of people who don't care one bit for this style of gameplay? I would like to see more players in eve online and I understand that the game is meant to be difficult but why reward those who insist on adding little to no value to your game? In the end your company is a business and as a business you want to have more people paying for accounts not less or am I wrong about that and you really don't want more players to join? I don't think CCP defines grief play the same way you do. --Vel

CCP StevieSG	Posted - 2010.11.08 16:38:00 - [9] Moved to Feature discussion from C&P.

Admiral Zhao Caldari Warsmiths	Posted - 2010.11.08 17:08:00 - [10] Is this a Joe alt?
shady trader	Posted - 2010.11.08 17:22:00 - [11] There is already a section of the EULA (You did read it all before signing up to this game right?) that defines grief play. If someone is carrying out grief play report it to the GM's so they can taken action. However if you consider that is accepted as normal in eve as grief play (suicide killing, scamming etc) then you are out of luck. I have seen a number of accounts ban for grief play, so CCP does take action. Macrointel, the place were the nature order of the universe does not hold sway. Pirates and ore thief's are congratulated by carebears for the actions.
Running missions	Posted - 2010.11.08 17:46:00 - [12] Originally by: Lady Spank Originally by: Solena Rain why reward those who insist on adding little to no value to your game? Agreed, nerf Yarrtards thanks. fixed for you Originally by: CCP Adida Originally by: WMunny Is it cheating for a new player to buy ISK using PLEX? It's against the EULA and can be actioned by GMs.[/
Lady Skank Ban Evasion inc	Posted - 2010.11.08 18:03:00 - [13] Originally by: Solena Rain So I'm just curious but how does grief play add any value to playing eve online? Sure it rewards the people who like to grief but what about the 90percent of people who don't care one bit for this style of gameplay? A most interesting statement and I am sure the playerbase would also be interested in the results of the surveys along with the other statistics you have collected that brought you to your conclusion.
Solena Rain	Posted - 2010.11.08 18:33:00 - [14] I'm sorry where did I say that grief play = pvp? Or where did you read that I support carebear play? It's a simple question, is eve online a better game when people grief others, this term is very loose, it could be anything from financial griefing to pvp to other scams and exploits. It's a broad term, but the focus is on game mechanics that reward those who add no value to the game. People who are so depraved of that they only find satisfaction in grief play is just sad really. If a player flips another players can, I don't consider it grief play, because if you try to take your stuff back you get a warning that you are about to steal something, this to me is fair, you are given a choice, you can choose to ignore the warning or you can choose leave. Totally fair mechanic. When 10 people suddenly decide to jump into a highsec system and pick on a new player in a bantam for example, blow him up and kill his pod without any warning, I would consider this grief playing, first because there is no ISK reward since all of them will lose ships far more expensive then the one they destroyed and second because their only satisfaction is to ruin someones day for no reason at all. What value is there in a game when the reward is simply to make someone else miserable, someone who did not deserve to be treated with hostility.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.11.08 18:47:00 - [15] Originally by: Solena Rain I'm sorry where did I say that grief play = pvp? Or where did you read that I support carebear play? It's a simple question, is eve online a better game when people grief others, this term is very loose, it could be anything from financial griefing to pvp to other scams and exploits. It's a broad term, but the focus is on game mechanics that reward those who add no value to the game. People who are so depraved of that they only find satisfaction in grief play is just sad really. If a player flips another players can, I don't consider it grief play, because if you try to take your stuff back you get a warning that you are about to steal something, this to me is fair, you are given a choice, you can choose to ignore the warning or you can choose leave. Totally fair mechanic. When 10 people suddenly decide to jump into a highsec system and pick on a new player in a bantam for example, blow him up and kill his pod without any warning, I would consider this grief playing, first because there is no ISK reward since all of them will lose ships far more expensive then the one they destroyed and second because their only satisfaction is to ruin someones day for no reason at all. What value is there in a game when the reward is simply to make someone else miserable, someone who did not deserve to be treated with hostility. just wondering ... you meant to say hulk instead of bantam right?
Solena Rain	Posted - 2010.11.08 18:53:00 - [16] Originally by: darius mclever Originally by: Solena Rain I'm sorry where did I say that grief play = pvp? Or where did you read that I support carebear play? It's a simple question, is eve online a better game when people grief others, this term is very loose, it could be anything from financial griefing to pvp to other scams and exploits. It's a broad term, but the focus is on game mechanics that reward those who add no value to the game. People who are so depraved of that they only find satisfaction in grief play is just sad really. If a player flips another players can, I don't consider it grief play, because if you try to take your stuff back you get a warning that you are about to steal something, this to me is fair, you are given a choice, you can choose to ignore the warning or you can choose leave. Totally fair mechanic. When 10 people suddenly decide to jump into a highsec system and pick on a new player in a bantam for example, blow him up and kill his pod without any warning, I would consider this grief playing, first because there is no ISK reward since all of them will lose ships far more expensive then the one they destroyed and second because their only satisfaction is to ruin someones day for no reason at all. What value is there in a game when the reward is simply to make someone else miserable, someone who did not deserve to be treated with hostility. just wondering ... you meant to say hulk instead of bantam right? A hulk has value so this to me would at least be a reasonable kill. The cost of killing a hulk will net you more then the loss of your ships which to me is perfectly OK. Insurance will cover the hulk so you don't really lose too much. Flying a hulk without insurance is their own fault.
VeniVidi Tyrannis	Posted - 2010.11.08 18:57:00 - [17] Eve is a futuristic wild west. Not a commerce sim. I hope you aren't petitioning call of duty to support your erotic role-play fantasies. Stop petitioning eve to cater to your personal ideals, it's not the right game for you if you can't htfu.
Solena Rain	Posted - 2010.11.08 21:43:00 - [18] Edited by: Solena Rain on 08/11/2010 21:46:22 Edited by: Solena Rain on 08/11/2010 21:45:27 Originally by: VeniVidi Tyrannis Eve is a futuristic wild west. Not a commerce sim. I hope you aren't petitioning call of duty to support your erotic role-play fantasies. Stop petitioning eve to cater to your personal ideals, it's not the right game for you if you can't htfu. Ok fanboy, thanks for the feedback. Nice cookie cutter response. LOL. Did this worldly wisdom come from years of hard work or something you read on a forum or saw in a music video. Jesus you people scare me sometimes, you are like walking advertisements for the game companies with NO original thought of your own. It's like having a parrot who learns one phrase and repeats it like he has torrets. HTFU HTFU WAAA HTFU! Hush pet!
Solena Rain	Posted - 2010.11.08 21:52:00 - [19] Originally by: Admiral Zhao Is this a Joe alt? No but good question, I can see you have not seen a girl before, see I have a female avatar so it would be a JANE alt. I'm here to help you.
Junkie Babe	Posted - 2010.11.08 21:59:00 - [20] No it's just you've understood EVE wrong, It's deep space and it's not safe not meant to be safe. Thats why your allowed to target lock players in high sec instead of just blocking that. While everyone dislikes been destroyed for no reason, particulary if your in a mining/mission fitted ship which never has a chance vs a PVP fit. The chance of being griefed which BTW is slim unless you really annoy some guys your unlikely to ever get griefed, But the chances adds risk and danger which makes it more interesting and exiciting. So while griefers do detract from players enjoyment they also add to it so to say they contribute nothing isn't fair. BTW unless it's hulkageedon, people don't throw away ships and creds for no reason so unless you upset someone thier not gonna suicdie gank you unless you got an insanely high credit value cargo or are flying a rare ship. Thank you Regards Junkie babe
Oneiros IV	Posted - 2010.11.08 22:01:00 - [21] Quote: add any value to playing eve online? Define this "value" Are you trying to deny me a freedom of roleplaying psychotic killer?
Solena Rain	Posted - 2010.11.08 22:04:00 - [22] I'm not talking about SAFE space. Ok let me try to rephrase my definition of a griefer. Ready, you will actually have to read this ok? A griefer is a player who annoys other players but does not gain anything personally in game, meaning there is no reward for him if he gives away the location or password of a POS but does not get anything in return for that information. but there is another breed People who use macros are the worst kind of griefer because they destroy the game which they technically dont even play but use a program to play for them. So between these two extremes of griefers they really devalue eve online, instead of it being a kick ass PVP game it turns into an annoying gaming experience. I would even put the spammers in Jita into a griefer category. There is a market for buy and sell orders, USE IT and STFU!
Solena Rain	Posted - 2010.11.08 22:08:00 - [23] Originally by: Oneiros IV Quote: add any value to playing eve online? Define this "value" Are you trying to deny me a freedom of roleplaying psychotic killer? Oh heavens NO! We need to keep things interesting. Psychotic killer is OK as long as provide a lesson to your victims and are not out to just ruin their day or annoy them until they rage quit. If your goal is to make people quit the game you are a griefer, if your goal is to make people be cautious and become better players, you are the kind of player eve needs!
Oneiros IV	Posted - 2010.11.08 22:08:00 - [24] Edited by: Oneiros IV on 08/11/2010 22:11:48 Edited by: Oneiros IV on 08/11/2010 22:08:37 Psychotic killer doesn't gives lessons he kills. InChar: My goal is to kill capsuleers and destroy their assets my reasons are my own. Some victims will take path of getting better some will ragequit it's not up to me nor do I care.
Junkie Babe	Posted - 2010.11.08 22:12:00 - [25] Originally by: Solena Rain I'm not talking about SAFE space. Ok let me try to rephrase my definition of a griefer. Ready, you will actually have to read this ok? A griefer is a player who annoys other players but does not gain anything personally in game, meaning there is no reward for him if he gives away the location or password of a POS but does not get anything in return for that information. but there is another breed People who use macros are the worst kind of griefer because they destroy the game which they technically dont even play but use a program to play for them. So between these two extremes of griefers they really devalue eve online, instead of it being a kick ass PVP game it turns into an annoying gaming experience. I would even put the spammers in Jita into a griefer category. There is a market for buy and sell orders, USE IT and STFU! CCP regularly bans macro accounts. Theirs a block feature to hide spam in chat windows. How do you know that player got nothing from giving away that POS code, they could of blew him up when he was a nooblet and he was getting revenge or he could be selling the POS code to another corp, Revenge, Spying and Espionage are all considered not griefing. Thank you Regards Junkie babe
Brandrsun Caldari	Posted - 2010.11.08 22:20:00 - [26] Originally by: Lady Spank Originally by: Solena Rain why reward those who insist on adding little to no value to your game? Agreed, nerf carebearing thanks. /thread
Solena Rain	Posted - 2010.11.08 23:22:00 - [27] Originally by: Oneiros IV Edited by: Oneiros IV on 08/11/2010 22:11:48 Edited by: Oneiros IV on 08/11/2010 22:08:37 Psychotic killer doesn't gives lessons he kills. InChar: My goal is to kill capsuleers and destroy their assets my reasons are my own. Some victims will take path of getting better some will ragequit it's not up to me nor do I care. awww someone is a sad clown. Did the other kids call you names at school? Seriously people like you should be phased out. You have no self worth and so you value no one else.
Meridith Akesia Tempest Legion	Posted - 2010.11.09 00:53:00 - [28] Didnt read the thread but OP sounds butthurt.
cyndrogen	Posted - 2010.11.09 01:00:00 - [29] Edited by: cyndrogen on 09/11/2010 01:03:01 Edited by: cyndrogen on 09/11/2010 01:01:08 Originally by: Meridith Akesia Didnt read the thread but OP sounds butthurt. meh. Just don't pick up that bar of soap and you'll be OK.
Selinate Amarr Wardens of the Void	Posted - 2010.11.09 01:28:00 - [30] Originally by: De'Veldrin I don't think CCP defines grief play the same way you do. Griefing definition according to ccp. Unfortunately, their definition leaves a LOT of room for argument on whether some actions are griefing or not. However, with their definition of griefing given, if anyone ever does grief, I do believe they take the action of banhammer (depending on the nature of the action).
Ragnar256 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.11.09 01:45:00 - [31] Without griefers, this game would be dull and monotonous.
Selinate Amarr Wardens of the Void	Posted - 2010.11.09 01:54:00 - [32] Originally by: Ragnar256 Without griefers, this game would be dull and monotonous. somewhat true, but unfortunately some folks take it a bit too far and can ruin the game experience for people completely...
Flesh Slurper	Posted - 2010.11.09 03:51:00 - [33] Originally by: Selinate Originally by: Ragnar256 Without griefers, this game would be dull and monotonous. somewhat true, but unfortunately some folks take it a bit too far and can ruin the game experience for people completely... Griefers only bother you if you let them.
Brandrsun Caldari	Posted - 2010.11.09 04:02:00 - [34] Originally by: Flesh Slurper Originally by: Selinate Originally by: Ragnar256 Without griefers, this game would be dull and monotonous. somewhat true, but unfortunately some folks take it a bit too far and can ruin the game experience for people completely... Griefers only bother you if you let them. This
Selinate Amarr Wardens of the Void	Posted - 2010.11.09 04:19:00 - [35] ... No. I'd argue with you two, but you essentially just said the equivalent of "bullies only bother you if you let them". This is just utter... meh. Some people on the forum, eh? What are you gonna do.
Mytzso Private Nuisance Segregati0n	Posted - 2010.11.09 10:56:00 - [36] Originally by: Selinate ... No. I'd argue with you two, but I am ghey u r full of ghey
Oneiros IV Minmatar Dudu Micha Stella Polaris.	Posted - 2010.11.09 11:43:00 - [37] Quote: awww someone is a sad clown. Did the other kids call you names at school? Seriously people like you should be phased out. You have no self worth and so you value no one else. Good to know you taking online game that seriously that you tell others how to roleplay in it in a demanding manner while operating real life values. _______ If others had not been foolish, we should be so. ¬ William Blake
Static Scream	Posted - 2010.11.09 12:34:00 - [38] Quote: So I'm just curious but how does grief play add any value to playing eve online? Sure it rewards the people who like to grief but what about the 90percent of people who don't care one bit for this style of gameplay? How does selling high and buying low in a single station create rewards for anyone but the trader? How does ratting in 0.0 for bounties create rewards for anyone but the ratter? How does bubble camping create rewards for anyone but the camper? Lol, so sure the 3 scenarios I have listed reward the people doing them, but what about the other 90percent of the people who don't care one bit for these styles of gameplay? Quote: why reward those who insist on adding little to no value to your game? Alert, alert not so subtle attempt to bring real life morality into a computer game detected, Hello Kitty Online -> that way
KaarBaak Minmatar Seatec Astronomy	Posted - 2010.11.09 13:41:00 - [39] Originally by: Solena Rain I'm sorry where did I say that grief play = pvp? Or where did you read that I support carebear play? It's a simple question, is eve online a better game when people grief others, this term is very loose, it could be anything from financial griefing to pvp to other scams and exploits. It's a broad term, but the focus is on game mechanics that reward those who add no value to the game. People who are so depraved of that they only find satisfaction in grief play is just sad really. Do you see what you did there? Quote: If a player flips another players can, I don't consider it grief play, because if you try to take your stuff back you get a warning that you are about to steal something, this to me is fair, you are given a choice, you can choose to ignore the warning or you can choose leave. Totally fair mechanic. When 10 people suddenly decide to jump into a highsec system and pick on a new player in a bantam for example, blow him up and kill his pod without any warning, I would consider this grief playing, first because there is no ISK reward since all of them will lose ships far more expensive then the one they destroyed and second because their only satisfaction is to ruin someones day for no reason at all. If "ruining someone's day for no reason at all" gives a player satisfaction, then isn't that what games are supposed to do? Quote: What value is there in a game when the reward is simply to make someone else miserable, someone who did not deserve to be treated with hostility. Everyone has done something to deserve it. Nobody is innocent (Except for Capsuleer Jesus). KB Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances. --Herodotus, Histories
Brandrsun Caldari	Posted - 2010.11.09 13:51:00 - [40] Originally by: Selinate ... No. I'd argue with you two, but you essentially just said the equivalent of "bullies only bother you if you let them". This is just utter... meh. Some people on the forum, eh? What are you gonna do. I'd argue with you to wasnt it that ive done so a million times allready with the same results. EVE is a dark, dangerus and unforgiving game. Deal with it or GTFO. ps, Can I haz your stuffs?
Michelle Devereux	Posted - 2010.11.09 21:42:00 - [41] Edited by: Michelle Devereux on 09/11/2010 21:43:01 Originally by: Solena Rain I would like to see more players in eve online and I understand that the game is meant to be difficult but why reward those who insist on adding little to no value to your game? In the end your company is a business and as a business you want to have more people paying for accounts not less or am I wrong about that and you really don't want more players to join? I am a new player (just under four weeks now) and I have joined this game for exactly this "cold, harsh atmosphere"; if it were otherwise, I would not have touched it with a long pole. So, from my point of view, CCP is doing their business actually quite well, with me paying now my monthly fee......
Gloria Stitz	Posted - 2010.11.09 21:48:00 - [42] Originally by: Mytzso Originally by: Solena Rain CCP, troll troll troll *** * * If you don't like something take your spatula and bucket and GET THE ** OUT OF MY SANDBOX! Now there is a man who calls a spatula a spatula ------------- 'Don't try to learn Eve all at once, otherwise your brain will explode' - Albert Einstein ------------
Joe McAlt	Posted - 2010.11.10 01:29:00 - [43] Originally by: Admiral Zhao Is this a Joe alt? I believe he was referring to me. the answer is no, this is not my thread. If you have followed my writing, you will see it isn't the griefing, ganking and war decs I have a problem with. It is with some of the so called elite PvP players who feel the need denigrate lesser skilled new players for not lining up to be killed for their enjoyment. Yes you are the hunters, but even the lion doesn't actually expect it's prey to close its eyes and wait to be eaten.
Selinate Amarr Wardens of the Void	Posted - 2010.11.10 02:40:00 - [44] Edited by: Selinate on 10/11/2010 02:40:12 Originally by: Brandrsun Originally by: Selinate ... No. I'd argue with you two, but you essentially just said the equivalent of "bullies only bother you if you let them". This is just utter... meh. Some people on the forum, eh? What are you gonna do. I'd argue with you to wasnt it that ive done so a million times allready with the same results. EVE is a dark, dangerus and unforgiving game. Deal with it or GTFO. ps, Can I haz your stuffs? Lol, yeah, I'd expect as much of a reply from someone who agreed with that absolutely idiotic statement...
Mytzso Private Nuisance Segregati0n	Posted - 2010.11.10 09:38:00 - [45] Originally by: Selinate yada yada yada... stfu and gtfo or we will declare an interstellar warfare on your corporation and utterly destroy you
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2010.11.10 13:17:00 - [46] I think eve is a griefer nest.And thats not all bad,makes it exiting to accomplish anything under those circumstances But one thing the griefers and ccp need to keep in mind is that it will become boring,even for the griefers when there is no one left to grief. So ccp should do their best to keep it balanced.
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2010.11.10 13:32:00 - [47] a balance is needed yes
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2010.11.10 15:46:00 - [48] Edited by: Cearain on 10/11/2010 15:48:09 Edited by: Cearain on 10/11/2010 15:46:27 I don't think its so much that CCP loves griefers. ItÆs more that they despise artificial handholding (or hand slapping) in their game. Deism is the belief that God made the universe and then never intervened again. Theism is the belief that God made the universe and intervenes. CCP is seems very much of the deism sort. If that makes any sense. Oh yeah and griefers aren't so bad. I hired one to watch my kids when I'm at work. -Cearain Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906
Mytzso Private Nuisance Segregati0n	Posted - 2010.11.10 16:52:00 - [49] Originally by: Cearain CCP is seems very much of the deism sort. Are you entirely there? Two expansions a year and several patches, loads of bugs to chase down and fix over and over again, tons of people getting banned for offending little carebear hamsters like you, and you are calling CCP deistic? P.S. What's with all the editing, having problems expressing yourself? P.P.S. Also, hire me to watch your kids.. Please..
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2010.11.10 17:37:00 - [50] Originally by: Mytzso Originally by: Cearain CCP is seems very much of the deism sort. Are you entirely there? Two expansions a year and several patches, loads of bugs to chase down and fix over and over again, tons of people getting banned for offending little carebear hamsters like you, and you are calling CCP deistic? P.S. What's with all the editing, having problems expressing yourself? P.P.S. Also, hire me to watch your kids.. Please.. U mad bro?
Solena Rain	Posted - 2010.11.10 19:19:00 - [51] Edited by: Solena Rain on 10/11/2010 19:21:58 Edited by: Solena Rain on 10/11/2010 19:20:44 Why griefers are not good for the game: 1. They don't contribute to the community. 2. They destroy the economy. 3. They are locusts. 4. They make the game frustrating and not fun for others. 5. They post useless non constructive comments all the time. I also consider SOLO players grieferes, that right carebear/griefer, you should not play an MMO if you just spend all your time playing with yourself, just like you do in real life. Anti social players have no business in an MMO.
darius mclever	Posted - 2010.11.10 19:30:00 - [52] if ccp had a real trouble with griefing, would they make trailers like this?
Culmen Caldari Blood Phage Syndicate Dead Terrorists	Posted - 2010.11.10 19:56:00 - [53] Originally by: Solena Rain 1. They don't contribute to the community. No, they created their own community, and continually contribute to that community. It's probably larger and more vibrant then the pure carebear community. At worst they share out those carebear tears Originally by: Solena Rain 2. They destroy the economy. They actually run the economy. If ships were not constantly getting blown up. Who would be buying all those modules? Considering you can get hundreds a day, the market would crash as everybody got all the modules they wanted in a week, and none were being removed. Originally by: Solena Rain 3. They are locusts. buzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Originally by: Solena Rain 4. They make the game frustrating and not fun for others. Well if 10 people greif one person. That's 10 people playing a rewarding and fun game, and one person not. Mathematics justifies my hate! Originally by: Solena Rain 5. They post useless non constructive comments all the time. Thats forum trolls. Forum trolls are on the forum and not in game.
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2010.11.10 19:57:00 - [54] Originally by: Solena Rain I also consider SOLO players grieferes, that right carebear/griefer, you should not play an MMO if you just spend all your time playing with yourself, just like you do in real life. Anti social players have no business in an MMO. Id say its hard to play eve solo.Even if there are any,why should you care.How are they bothering you?And how do they cause anyone grief? Live and let live,worry about your game and let them play theirs.
Selinate Amarr Wardens of the Void	Posted - 2010.11.10 20:12:00 - [55] Edited by: Selinate on 10/11/2010 20:15:43 Originally by: Mytzso Originally by: Selinate yada yada yada... stfu and gtfo or we will declare an interstellar warfare on your corporation and utterly destroy you lol. My corp is a 1-man corp. Please, by all means, go ahead and war dec me. All that will happen is I will log on, switch skills, and log off. You won't really hurt my gameplay at all (in fact, by war deccing me, you will hurt your own gameplay since you'll just be bored to death playing station games). Again, exactly what I'd expect from someone who would agree with that statement mentioned.
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2010.11.10 20:18:00 - [56] Originally by: Mytzso Originally by: Cearain CCP is seems very much of the deism sort. Are you entirely there? Two expansions a year and several patches, loads of bugs to chase down and fix over and over again, tons of people getting banned for offending little carebear hamsters like you, and you are calling CCP deistic? P.S. What's with all the editing, having problems expressing yourself? P.P.S. Also, hire me to watch your kids.. Please.. I don't consider bug fixes and patches or even expansions theism in the sense I'm getting at here. That is just really just creating the universe. But whatever the analogy only stretches so far. Concord would be the clearest example CCP acting like theists. Concord has godlike power to mitigate certain behaviors in the game. The fact that it is a bannable offense to try to evade them makes this even more so. Banning people for ôoffending little carebear hamsters like youö would be another example of theism, I agree. Banning people for doing exploits is another example. But other than that CCP pretty much says here it is do with it what you will. I think they do indeed try to have a hands off approach unless it would really clearly be financially stupid not to intervene. Editing: I didnÆt know there were such people who would care if I edited my post to make it more readable, at least not enough to post about it. But there you are. -Cearain Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906
Cearain Caldari The IMPERIUM of LaZy NATION	Posted - 2010.11.10 20:48:00 - [57] Originally by: Solena Rain I also consider SOLO players grieferes, that right carebear/griefer, you should not play an MMO if you just spend all your time playing with yourself, just like you do in real life. Anti social players have no business in an MMO. I don't play eve to make friends. I have friends and family in real life and thatÆs really sufficient for me. ItÆs not that I donÆt like the people I meet in eve ûmost a really nice - itÆs just that I donÆt sign in to ôsocialize.ö I think itÆs great that some people use eve as a means to socialize and I think itÆs great that people make friends through the game. ItÆs just not what I am out to do. But I am not playing solo in order to hurt your feelings or cause you grief. Eve is not a dating service or some sort of ôfriend findingö service. ItÆs a computer game. I don't consider myself antisocial just because I don't look at a computer game as a way to make friends. I wonder if there is any correlation between people who have allot of friends on eve-online and the number of real life friends they have. Why play a mmo mostly solo? Because the game play is great and itÆs a truly dynamic universe. ItÆs also as accessible as television and usually more fun. -Cearain Make fw occupancy pvp instead of pve: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1329906
Solena Rain	Posted - 2010.11.10 21:47:00 - [58] Bro, I was not talking about you. So far you have no grief qualities judging by what you wrote. Originally by: Culmen Originally by: Solena Rain 1. They don't contribute to the community. No, they created their own community, and continually contribute to that community. It's probably larger and more vibrant then the pure carebear community. At worst they share out those carebear tears Originally by: Solena Rain 2. They destroy the economy. They actually run the economy. If ships were not constantly getting blown up. Who would be buying all those modules? Considering you can get hundreds a day, the market would crash as everybody got all the modules they wanted in a week, and none were being removed. Originally by: Solena Rain 3. They are locusts. buzzzzzzzzzzzzzz. Originally by: Solena Rain 4. They make the game frustrating and not fun for others. Well if 10 people greif one person. That's 10 people playing a rewarding and fun game, and one person not. Mathematics justifies my hate! Originally by: Solena Rain 5. They post useless non constructive comments all the time. Thats forum trolls. Forum trolls are on the forum and not in game.
garus banta	Posted - 2010.11.10 21:51:00 - [59] Originally by: Ragnar256 Without griefers, this game would be dull and monotonous. You think eve online is monotonous without grief player? Do you have any data to back that up or are you just talking out of your ass?
Mytzso Private Nuisance Segregati0n	Posted - 2010.11.10 22:20:00 - [60] Originally by: Selinate lol. All that will happen is I will log on, switch skills, and log off. And we all know why.
Selinate Amarr Wardens of the Void	Posted - 2010.11.10 22:56:00 - [61] Originally by: Mytzso Originally by: Selinate lol. All that will happen is I will log on, switch skills, and log off. And we all know why. because the best ship that this character can currently fly is a destroyer? Yeah, that sums it up Also, threatening to declare war over a thread is a bit immature... just throwing that out there...
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2010.11.10 23:45:00 - [62] u can grief anyone at any time jus tgoto 0.5 space in any t1 fit battlecruiser ( harby is good) and suicide gank random hauler, dessie or get 2-3 and gank a hauler its a 0.3 sec loss for succesful ship kill. Easy made up in a few missions and if youre smart scan targets and take out the most vaulable
garus banta	Posted - 2010.11.11 01:14:00 - [63] Originally by: HeliosGal u can grief anyone at any time jus tgoto 0.5 space in any t1 fit battlecruiser ( harby is good) and suicide gank random hauler, dessie or get 2-3 and gank a hauler its a 0.3 sec loss for succesful ship kill. Easy made up in a few missions and if youre smart scan targets and take out the most vaulable are you taking about a freighter or a hauler? You can't take out a freighterin a BC quickly enough before you get Concord to blast you to s h i t. If you kill a hauler its a total waste, most highsec ore is only 2 to 3 million at best. Unless they actually have BPO or something even more expensive in their cargo.
Mytzso Private Nuisance Segregati0n	Posted - 2010.11.11 11:01:00 - [64] You're always gonna have problems lifting a body in one piece. Apparently the best thing to do is cut up a corpse into six pieces and pile it all together. And when you got your six pieces, you gotta get rid of them, because it's no good leaving it in the deep freeze for your mum to discover, now is it? Then I hear the best thing to do is feed them to pigs. You got to starve the pigs for a few days, then the sight of a chopped-up body will look like curry to a **head. You gotta shave the heads of your victims, and pull the teeth out for the sake of the piggies' digestion. You could do this afterwards, of course, but you don't want to go sievin' through pig **, now do you? They will go through bone like butter. You need at least sixteen pigs to finish the job in one sitting, so be wary of any man who keeps a pig farm. They will go through a body that weighs 200 pounds in about eight minutes. That means that a single pig can consume two pounds of uncooked flesh every minute. Hence the expression, "as greedy as a pig".
Juerg Ginswig	Posted - 2010.11.12 14:58:00 - [65] Originally by: Selinate Also, threatening to declare war over a thread is a bit immature... just throwing that out there... We, the Independent Miners of Lonetrek think that you are totally ghey, even for a carebear, and by your excessive gheyness you shed bad light on the rest of us. Cease and desist such ghey activities or face the consequences! Also, to the friends at CCP, go post this off-topic: 8===o ~~ ~
Nuts Nougat Perkone	Posted - 2010.11.12 15:50:00 - [66] Snipers always declare wars over threads. ---
Renan Ruivo	Posted - 2010.11.12 18:41:00 - [67] Grief play really adds to nothing. However you have to be carefull in what you see as grief play. You see, EVE Online is above all else, about making money. Like in the real world where everything is all about sex, for us in here everything is about making fake money. Ganking for instance might sound like griefing, but i asure you it aint' about griefing if they use 1.2b in 10 ravens to kill your 40b officer fit mission boat. No matter what happens, they're going to get MORE than 1.2b worth of loot out of your wreck. If someone is killing you because that is profitable for him/her, then i take off my hat to said person.. and then i'd tell you to grow up and learn how NOT to get killed. If someone is killing you just because they want to ruin your experience, and they get no profit out of it, feel free to open a ticket. Otherwise, you will just get flamed..
Juerg Ginswig	Posted - 2010.11.12 21:38:00 - [68] Originally by: Renan RuivoIf someone is killing you just because they want to ruin your experience, and they get no profit out of it, feel free to open a ticket. Otherwise, you will just get flamed..[/quote Hey Popeye, how about ganking for fun? I mean EvE is a game and my ultimate goal is not the fake money, as you put it, I am chasing real dough all day long in the office enough as it is, my goal is to be able to point a finger at someone face and laugh at their utter stupidity, to put in words you'll understand, to have fun. The minute EvE ceases to be fun is the minute I am stopping to pay the subscription, and that's that. Believe it or not the amount of people who will agree with me is too considerable for CCP to ignore. Now go on carebaring and if you don't like it gtfo of my sandbox!
Selinate Amarr Wardens of the Void	Posted - 2010.11.13 05:18:00 - [69] Originally by: Juerg Ginswig Originally by: Selinate Also, threatening to declare war over a thread is a bit immature... just throwing that out there... We, the Independent Miners of Lonetrek think that you are totally ghey, even for a carebear, and by your excessive gheyness you shed bad light on the rest of us. Cease and desist such ghey activities or face the consequences! Also, to the friends at CCP, go post this off-topic: 8===o ~~ ~ Lol. Again. Immaturity. Very nice, good show of character.
Mezcal	Posted - 2010.11.13 08:13:00 - [70] Hi Solena, I think I understand what you are saying but I'm not sure I would agree with your loose definition of 'Griefing'. As Selinate stated earlier in this thread (post 30) CCP does recognise and offer an illustration of what they believe 'Griefing' to be. Like it or not, EVE Online is a PvP game. It's what the game is made for. In Lo-Sec, Hi-Sec, Null-Sec, Market Transactions, Contracts, Corporate Politics as well as official and unofficial forums you will find that aspect of the game being played out with great zeal. Some people take that zeal too far for my liking but my liking doesn't really matter in EVE's game design. The nature of EVE Online's design is what keeps people here and brings more people to it annually. Some leave but many stay because it isn't like other games. When I lose at an aspect of the game, and I do, I recognize it as a mechanic of the game, learn and move on. If I had to nail down two things I would definitely call 'Griefing' in the game they would be: newb-system, bait-canning and official, help channel trolling. I have seen these take place in game and have also seen CCP deal with them. A game mechanic I feel is being exploited is Hi-Sec, gate piracy. Getting insurance to cover your loses for destroying ships in 'protected' space and still getting away with the spoils is a tough pill for me to swallow. Is it 'Griefing'? I guess that's up to CCP to decide. However, if a player is using 2-3 accounts to do this type of exploit, then I can't see how your arguement of CCP being a business that needs to change their game design to appeal to more players is going to sway them in any way. I guess what I'm saying is, maybe you will have better success and/or satisfaction with the game if you choose specific aspects of it you are unhappy with and push for change of those. I don't think suggesting a general redesign of a proven and successful product will garner much support here.
Juerg Ginswig	Posted - 2010.11.15 14:58:00 - [71] Originally by: Selinate Lol. Again. Immaturity. Very nice, good show of character. 8===o ~~ ~
Covert Kitty Amarr ISK Solutions SRS.	Posted - 2010.11.15 15:36:00 - [72] Your confusing griefing and normal eve gameplay. How exactly does CCP "Incentivize" griefing, part of the definition of griefing is specifically that the griefer is getting basically nothing out of it other than the joy of making you miserable and singling you out over and over again to do so. The other day some friends of mine suicide ganked a deadspace/faction fit missioning tengu for fun and profit. Thats not griefing. Blowing up a bunch of hulks for no reason other than to watch people get mad isn't greifing either unless you do it to the same guy over and over again. Eve is a game of risk, reward, and often sadistic pleasure, if you want to run missions in complete safety go play wow.
Covert Kitty Amarr ISK Solutions SRS.	Posted - 2010.11.15 15:44:00 - [73] Quote: 2. They destroy the economy. Another satisfied customer, I hope you enjoy that luxury ship you just bought from me. Quote: 3. They are locusts. I for one welcome our new locust overlords, welcome to eve Quote: 4. They make the game frustrating and not fun for others. It certainly makes it fun for me, don't be stupid, make the game fun for you. Quote: 5. They post useless non constructive comments all the time. DOH
Vahz Zhul	Posted - 2010.11.15 17:34:00 - [74] Edited by: Vahz Zhul on 15/11/2010 17:44:14 Originally by: Solena Rain So I'm just curious but how does grief play add any value to playing eve online? It adds precisely how much carebear tears you have to give ^.^ Oh how I loathe people who have your attitude about how EvE should be. The fact that someone can grief/scam/steal/con makes me LOVE this game and the people who play it. If you want a cute little garden with fluffy white clouds with no rain, please leave. This game is about spaceships in cold empty space, and the interactions of the players. Have you not watched one trailer to this game? lul

CCP Adida C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.11.15 18:44:00 - [75] Removed an inappropriate text/image Adida Community Rep CCP Hf, EVE Online

Solena Rain	Posted - 2010.11.16 07:04:00 - [76] Originally by: Vahz Zhul Edited by: Vahz Zhul on 15/11/2010 17:44:14 Originally by: Solena Rain So I'm just curious but how does grief play add any value to playing eve online? It adds precisely how much carebear tears you have to give ^.^ Oh how I loathe people who have your attitude about how EvE should be. The fact that someone can grief/scam/steal/con makes me LOVE this game and the people who play it. If you want a cute little garden with fluffy white clouds with no rain, please leave. This game is about spaceships in cold empty space, and the interactions of the players. Have you not watched one trailer to this game? lul eo you actually think I care about what you loathe? Your opinion is worthless , you are worthless, and your only achievement in life is being a coward, yeah I think that about sums it up. Do yourself a favor, lock yourself in your pod and initiate the auto destruct sequence.
Covert Kitty Amarr ISK Solutions SRS.	Posted - 2010.11.16 12:18:00 - [77] The very last official trailer promoted gaining the trust of an alliance and then jacking everything they own. Believe it or not, this isn't rainbows and skittles online, sounds like you found that out just recently :) And yes most of us are having a great deal of fun watching you cry on the forums.
Jint Hikaru OffWorld Exploration Inc	Posted - 2010.11.16 12:55:00 - [78] Originally by: Solena Rain So I'm just curious but how does grief play add any value to playing eve online? It adds an element of danger to the game, which in turn brings 'value' to the achivements of those who survive that danger. A little while ago, I took an assult ship to 0.0 to run one of the Pirate Epic Arcs. Ran through the Arc, got my BPC and loot. But by far the most fun was managing to get that loot back to Hi-Sec through a number of gate camps. One camp I got pulled into a bubble... spent a very nervous 10mins coloaked slowboating around while a bunch of 'griefers' tryed to drop my cloak by circling there ships around the area. Managing to escape that was by far the most exciting thing of the whole epic arc experience. ------------------------ Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer / SpaceBum "I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!" ------------------------
Vahz Zhul Legio Prima Victrix	Posted - 2010.11.16 16:30:00 - [79] Originally by: Solena Rain eo you actually think I care about what you loathe? Your opinion is worthless , you are worthless, and your only achievement in life is being a coward, yeah I think that about sums it up. Do yourself a favor, lock yourself in your pod and initiate the auto destruct sequence. -Says the coward hiding behind an alt :P Hehe, more Q_Q More! I'd really love to hear now how someone griefed you now. You know there's Free 2 Play games out there where you can dance and prance with the elves? Why don't you spare us and move there.
Medarr Amarr	Posted - 2010.11.16 16:41:00 - [80] Edited by: Medarr on 16/11/2010 16:42:04 Originally by: Solena Rain Originally by: Vahz Zhul Edited by: Vahz Zhul on 15/11/2010 17:44:14 Originally by: Solena Rain So I'm just curious but how does grief play add any value to playing eve online? It adds precisely how much carebear tears you have to give ^.^ Oh how I loathe people who have your attitude about how EvE should be. The fact that someone can grief/scam/steal/con makes me LOVE this game and the people who play it. If you want a cute little garden with fluffy white clouds with no rain, please leave. This game is about spaceships in cold empty space, and the interactions of the players. Have you not watched one trailer to this game? lul eo you actually think I care about what you loathe? Your opinion is worthless , you are worthless, and your only achievement in life is being a coward, yeah I think that about sums it up. Do yourself a favor, lock yourself in your pod and initiate the auto destruct sequence. Your definition of grief play isnt acurate in regards to eve. EVE-Online's whole setting revolves around predatory players making your life miserable and the subsequent struggle to keep yourself afloat in such a dark and dangerus universe. This by its very nature means that offencive play styles can be easily labed as griefing wich isnt the case. They are playing their part and thats what makes EVE well EVE...
Markus Reese Caldari Lorentzian Expeditionaries	Posted - 2010.11.16 17:24:00 - [81] Don't care to read, but my 411 on grief play: It is easy to avoid. If solo, don't hit high traffic areas. Move an extra 5 jumps from your market hub where nobody hangs out and griefers are rare. And who cares if you might lose the odd bit of salvage. Work as a team. If in a team, it is near impossible to be griefed. War dec: Be mobile. If you get a declaration, grab a fast ship and hit a pocket highsec, or try a different location of space. Griefers have a voracious appetite so if you don't feed them, they get hungry and go somewhere else. They also don't want to work for their food.

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