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The concept is here.....shame about the execution

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Taharqua10	Posted - 2010.11.10 08:32:00 - [1] What is it going to take for CCP to realise that Eve is a brilliant game but the execution of the game is somewhat flawed. One example of this is the interface, functional but really boring. I looked at the X series of games recently & whilst the mechanic is different the interface is miles ahead of what we currently have in Eve & remember Eve is nigh on 10 years old. Eve is not going to die any time soon but if a competitor with the same concepts spring up & corrects the major issues of lag, interface & reasonable bug testing CCP could find itself in trouble. Don't get me wrong, I love the game for its uniqueness-there is only one Eve at present but that could change, but its getting very bland. It has simply become uninspiring. The interface is textual & boring and very simple things like the inability to compose an email without your message running around the typing area is frankly amateurish. There will always be people who will moan about anything but I see very little evolution within Eve & to be honest I do not blame people who quit the game as they go on that search to find something that can fulfil there gaming needs. Eve has that potential for every player but I think CCP has lost its way & that opens the door to competitors to take the mat from beneath their feet.
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE	Posted - 2010.11.10 08:39:00 - [2] Yep, a new thread about the crappy UI which everyone knows about and most agree with already was definitely needed. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Ran Khanon Amarr Swords Horses and Heavy Metal	Posted - 2010.11.10 08:39:00 - [3] VE is dying. ecause my mail is bugged. ot joking. ~~Recruiting!~~
Taharqua10	Posted - 2010.11.10 08:44:00 - [4] Originally by: Arthur Frayn Yep, a new thread about the crappy UI which everyone knows about and most agree with already was definitely needed. I respect your comment. However, new players might not know how bad the UI is until they experience something better and as there is very little competition that might take a long time to realise. This post is not about the UI exclusively. It only uses that as an example. It is about the potential for the competition to take what CCP have & do the job differently & perhaps better.
Cryptkiller Minmatar Ebola Allstars	Posted - 2010.11.10 08:55:00 - [5] Well, EVE does have competitors in the sandox, pvp centric MMO market, Darkfall, Perpetuum Online, Mortal online, etc. None of them hold the design standards, depth of gameplay options, features or stability EVE offers. So I wouldn't think an outside "competitor" will dethrone EVE as king of the sandbox in the niche share of the MMO universe it occupies. EVE's greatest threat, ironically, is its ambition to innovate in too many new areas at once, while shelving and abandoning game features players are already engaged in. The interface, slow to improve, has been a laggard for many years despite this push to innovate. Yet it remains functional enough and "unbroken" enough to remain a low developer priority. Though a nearly universal majority of players would like to see overhauls to the UI, this is not an issue that has driven subscribers away from the game or pushed them to go inactive. The problems with lag, exploits, balancing issues are what frustrated players and the apparent lack of support to address these concerns caused a number of players to become disenchanted with the product. The devs appear to have listened, and initiatives were implemented to deal with the problems at hand. What threatens EVE is the appearance of hubris on the part of the company that the players are willing to stick with a flawed product that parts ways with its roots (see the recent furor over "microtransactions"). Well, that and maybe Minecraft.
Mme Pinkerton United Engineering Services	Posted - 2010.11.10 11:00:00 - [6] Originally by: Taharqua10 However, new players might not know how bad the UI is until they experience something better and as there is very little competition that might take a long time to realise. You did just describe why the bad UI is no problem. Gratz.
Aera Aiana Amarr	Posted - 2010.11.10 11:04:00 - [7] I doubt anybody would quit exclusively because of the UI. Apparently CCP thinks so, too. What I think they fail to realize though is, that those minor issues really add up. Say, somebody is already **ed because he just died to lag or unexpected gameplay (EVE is full of that) and on top of that has to deal with annoying 30s timers twice because CCP can't be arsed to fix clone jumping from within a ship, he might decide to say "** it" and quit - the first time probably only for a while. The second time he might not return at all. - Don't let the trolls stop you from giving a helpful reply. :)
Skinae	Posted - 2010.11.10 11:16:00 - [8] Originally by: Aera Aiana I doubt anybody would quit exclusively because of the UI. Apparently CCP thinks so, too. What I think they fail to realize though is, that those minor issues really add up. Say, somebody is already **ed because he just died to lag or unexpected gameplay (EVE is full of that) and on top of that has to deal with annoying 30s timers twice because CCP can't be arsed to fix clone jumping from within a ship, he might decide to say "** it" and quit - the first time probably only for a while. The second time he might not return at all. Events like this are exactly what makes longterm players quit.
Niccolado Starwalker Gallente Shadow Templars	Posted - 2010.11.10 11:18:00 - [9] Originally by: Taharqua10 What is it going to take for CCP to realise that Eve is a brilliant game but the execution of the game is somewhat flawed. One example of this is the interface, functional but really boring. I looked at the X series of games recently & whilst the mechanic is different the interface is miles ahead of what we currently have in Eve & remember Eve is nigh on 10 years old. Eve is not going to die any time soon but if a competitor with the same concepts spring up & corrects the major issues of lag, interface & reasonable bug testing CCP could find itself in trouble. Don't get me wrong, I love the game for its uniqueness-there is only one Eve at present but that could change, but its getting very bland. It has simply become uninspiring. The interface is textual & boring and very simple things like the inability to compose an email without your message running around the typing area is frankly amateurish. There will always be people who will moan about anything but I see very little evolution within Eve & to be honest I do not blame people who quit the game as they go on that search to find something that can fulfil there gaming needs. Eve has that potential for every player but I think CCP has lost its way & that opens the door to competitors to take the mat from beneath their feet. Its difficult to make it more fancy because of the games complex nature. As such the UI might be boring, but its functional. And that is whats important after all. Originally by: Dianabolic Your tears are absolutely divine, like a fine fine wine, rolling down your cheeks until they flow down the river of LOL.
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2010.11.10 11:50:00 - [10] Originally by: Arthur Frayn Yep, a new thread about the crappy UI which everyone knows about and most agree with already was definitely needed. It sure was because the UI is still crappy and he hit the nail right on the head with his opinion. I tried to link an item in a shopping list I was making for a friend,which I was going to send per eve mail..no chance.Its bugged to hell.It just wont link.Also there is no way to link an item from the market or even copy the name any how so you can paste it.Its really annoying.If you dont type the name exact..it wont link. Why not let us drag an item from the market and put it into the chat box?Or at least copy the name to link it. Look at how many people in this game are named "darth" whatever.CCp better hope that bioware doesn't get that starwars game polished up.

Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2010.11.10 11:54:00 - [11] Originally by: Niccolado Starwalker Originally by: Taharqua10 What is it going to take for CCP to realise that Eve is a brilliant game but the execution of the game is somewhat flawed. One example of this is the interface, functional but really boring. I looked at the X series of games recently & whilst the mechanic is different the interface is miles ahead of what we currently have in Eve & remember Eve is nigh on 10 years old. Eve is not going to die any time soon but if a competitor with the same concepts spring up & corrects the major issues of lag, interface & reasonable bug testing CCP could find itself in trouble. Don't get me wrong, I love the game for its uniqueness-there is only one Eve at present but that could change, but its getting very bland. It has simply become uninspiring. The interface is textual & boring and very simple things like the inability to compose an email without your message running around the typing area is frankly amateurish. There will always be people who will moan about anything but I see very little evolution within Eve & to be honest I do not blame people who quit the game as they go on that search to find something that can fulfil there gaming needs. Eve has that potential for every player but I think CCP has lost its way & that opens the door to competitors to take the mat from beneath their feet. Its difficult to make it more fancy because of the games complex nature. As such the UI might be boring, but its functional. And that is whats important after all. The problem with that is, that in addition to the dull design, the level of functionality has for a long time been also poor, but granted things have been getting improvements lately. Things like waiting for over 7 years to get proper quick keys for basic game actions is down right unforgivable. Just because you can actually clumsily do the necessary actions using the UI doesn't meant that it is any good. Good means it is easy and fast to use, helps to manage all the info the game provides in a better way and is intuitive to boot. For a long time EVEs UI has been the polar opposite of those things and still has a lot of room for improvements in many areas. The complexity makes achieving all those things harder, but CCP shouldn't try to use it as an excuse for not working on improving things.
Antihrist Pripravnik 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2010.11.10 12:01:00 - [12] Originally by: Taharqua10 The interface is textual & boring and very simple things like the inability to compose an email without your message running around the typing area is frankly amateurish. What you described here doesn't have anything to do with interface design. The first one is just "make-up" and the second is a bug. You can't measure how good some UI is by its look. Good UI has all the elements and options right on their places where they should naturally be. It's also easy to use, doesn't distract too much with its impractical but flashy graphical design and designed to minimize user errors due to missclicks. An example of badly designed UI would be putting "Trash it.." next to "Make active". Some UIs look "awesome" with all those flashy elements, but at the end, if you use it very often (like in EVE) you'll start to notice just how annoying and impractical those graphical elements are.
Orion GUardian Caldari	Posted - 2010.11.10 12:16:00 - [13] Originally by: Ran Khanon VE is dying. ecause my mail is bugged. ot joking. I see what you did there.....
Iamien Democracy of Klingon Brothers R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.11.10 12:24:00 - [14] Tahar part of the reason for the minimalistic right-click laden UI has to do with how eve has been in dev since 2000 or so. EVE in 2000 EVE in BETA 2002/2003 EVE Late Beta EVE 2003 Eve is such an old game and the UI is so fundamental to game-play that any major change to the UI takes tremendous amounts of work. That is why we will likely just see continuous small patched until the end of new eden.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.11.10 12:35:00 - [15] Originally by: Taharqua10 Eve is not going to die any time soon but if a competitor with the same concepts spring up & corrects the major issues of lag, interface & reasonable bug testing CCP could find itself in trouble. if someone starts up and at start up has "fixed the lag" well then p^~p if a reasonably hardcore sandbox space (maybe a hello kitty sandbox game would be worse, I mean people love that wow ****) game comes up then yes eve might have some trouble, I don't think anyone is denying that but well it hasn't happened yet.
Iamien Democracy of Klingon Brothers R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.11.10 12:49:00 - [16] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton if someone starts up and at start up has "fixed the lag" well then p^~p All it would take is a multi-threaded server process.
Adunh Slavy	Posted - 2010.11.10 13:01:00 - [17] Originally by: Iamien All it would take is a multi-threaded server process. Not always. From our perspective as players, we've no idea what critical section locks they have, mutex, thread locks, events, semaphores ... too many threads can make some processes worse. And don't forget, most of these processes are single core, and only one thread runs at a time. The Real Space Initiative - V6 (Forum Link)
Iamien Democracy of Klingon Brothers R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.11.10 13:18:00 - [18] Edited by: Iamien on 10/11/2010 13:22:42 Originally by: Adunh Slavy Originally by: Iamien All it would take is a multi-threaded server process. Not always. From our perspective as players, we've no idea what critical section locks they have, mutex, thread locks, events, semaphores ... too many threads can make some processes worse. And don't forget, most of these processes are single core, and only one thread runs at a time. Their servers all have multi-core processors yet their software is single-threaded. The only exception are nodes like the jita super-node which use extra hardware to allow a node to use more than 1 cpu core(This config mind you is how the LXQ "battle" was possible, lending that more processing power does help). I am unfamiliar with the technical specifics on how this is done but it is likely a pretty expensive config.
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.11.10 13:51:00 - [19] Edited by: Brian Ballsack on 10/11/2010 13:51:40 I dont see a problem, FOBTW and leave us all alone, go fiddle about with the crappy UI there.
Diesel47	Posted - 2010.11.10 13:55:00 - [20] Originally by: Orion GUardian Originally by: Ran Khanon VE is dying. ecause my mail is bugged. ot joking. I see what you did there..... Obviously, everyone did. Why do you have to say it?

Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.11.10 13:58:00 - [21] àthen again, the X-series more or less revolves around automatic entire fleets and letting the game play itself. That kind of forces it to have a drastically different UI. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
mechtech SRS Industries SRS.	Posted - 2010.11.10 14:44:00 - [22] Originally by: Iamien Their servers all have multi-core processors yet their software is single-threaded. The only exception are nodes like the jita super-node which use extra hardware to allow a node to use more than 1 cpu core(This config mind you is how the LXQ "battle" was possible, lending that more processing power does help). I am unfamiliar with the technical specifics on how this is done but it is likely a pretty expensive config. This is absolutely false. The Jita node has an upgraded processor and faster DDR3 RAM. It can't use more than one CPU core (yes there are character servers, but the actual system simulation is on 1 core). In this day and age running anything mission critical on 1 core is ridiculous. 16 core server CPUs are coming out soon from AMD, and we have our big fleet battles running on 1 core? I know it's an incredibly hard task to try and multitask eve, but I would gladly have no development for a while year if it meant that a task team could come in and rip eve apart and rebuild it with multicore support. It needs to happen, and it's only going to get worse as the future of server hardware is more cores.
Norian Lonark Gallente Black Thorne Corporation Black Thorne Alliance	Posted - 2010.11.10 17:07:00 - [23] The only thing I agree with in the original post is the mail bug. Personally apart from forementioned bug, the lack of font selection and the random moving of windows I have always found the UI good to use and easy to see what you want. For me its more of a few tweaks here and there rather than radical overhaul. I wouldnt leave eve because a game came out with a flashy customisable OU, if that were the case I would still be playing wow
Iamien Democracy of Klingon Brothers R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.11.10 17:11:00 - [24] Originally by: mechtech Originally by: Iamien Their servers all have multi-core processors yet their software is single-threaded. The only exception are nodes like the jita super-node which use extra hardware to allow a node to use more than 1 cpu core(This config mind you is how the LXQ "battle" was possible, lending that more processing power does help). I am unfamiliar with the technical specifics on how this is done but it is likely a pretty expensive config. This is absolutely false. The Jita node has an upgraded processor and faster DDR3 RAM. It can't use more than one CPU core (yes there are character servers, but the actual system simulation is on 1 core). I didn't say it used more than one core. It instead uses VMT(Virtual Multithreading) which requires special hardware and is still not as effective as true multi-threading.
Kezzle	Posted - 2010.11.10 17:15:00 - [25] Originally by: Iamien Eve is such an old game and the UI is so fundamental to game-play that any major change to the UI takes tremendous amounts of work. Which is an example of bad architecture. If they have to rewrite the game to make the interface layer changeable without 'tremendous amounts of work', it'd be worth it.
Magron1	Posted - 2010.11.10 17:22:00 - [26] CCP doesnt give a damn friend. Eve is nothing more than a revenue source to draw on while they develop other streams. They don't improve the game or fix bugs because they don't feel that draws new customers. By their own words it's 'new content' they work on....as lame as it is...and most of the upcoming new content seems really lame to me. Regarding the new 'incursions' crap..I hope they keep firmly in mind that 70% of their PAYING CUSTOMERS want no part of forced combat or pvp. If they're going to make it impossible for me to pursue the game at random intervals and make highsec even more pvp friendly me and a lot of people are going to take another look at finding someplace else to spend our money. Personally I never forget which side of the VENDOR/CUSTOMER fence i'm sitting on. They had better not lose track of that either. Don't bother flaming me. The diehard players who want that stuff are a distinct minority and let me be the first to point out, the minute the EVE server cluster does not generate enough revenue, it WILL be either taken down or retasked.
Magron1	Posted - 2010.11.10 17:28:00 - [27] Edited by: Magron1 on 10/11/2010 17:30:18 Originally by: mechtech Originally by: Iamien Their servers all have multi-core processors yet their software is single-threaded. The only exception are nodes like the jita super-node which use extra hardware to allow a node to use more than 1 cpu core(This config mind you is how the LXQ "battle" was possible, lending that more processing power does help). I am unfamiliar with the technical specifics on how this is done but it is likely a pretty expensive config. This is absolutely false. The Jita node has an upgraded processor and faster DDR3 RAM. It can't use more than one CPU core (yes there are character servers, but the actual system simulation is on 1 core). In this day and age running anything mission critical on 1 core is ridiculous. 16 core server CPUs are coming out soon from AMD, and we have our big fleet battles running on 1 core? I know it's an incredibly hard task to try and multitask eve, but I would gladly have no development for a while year if it meant that a task team could come in and rip eve apart and rebuild it with multicore support. It needs to happen, and it's only going to get worse as the future of server hardware is more cores. Like i said in my above posting..ccp does NOT care. They are only going to do what they believe brings in new customers. Not only does the core code in this game SUCK it is also completely nondocumented. As proven by all the crap they break when they do try to add or change something. Take a guess what it would cost in time and money to go through the code and fix it...it ain't gonna happen. They also seem to feel the need to push their vision of what eve is supposed to be instead of going with what their customers want. I strongly suspect shortly after somebody comes out with a better executed version of this concept, ccp is going to be left with a big expensive server cluster and a handful of diehards who just don't want easy griefing to go away. BUY A CLUE CCP.. most of your paying customers do NOT want what the loudmouthed cowardly griefers do.
Hooch Flux Caldari	Posted - 2010.11.10 17:31:00 - [28] Originally by: Magron1 70% of their PAYING CUSTOMERS want no part of forced combat or pvp. Just curious as to where you get this figure from? I say prep for dustoff, nuke the site from orbit... Only way to be sure!
Yuki Kulotsuki	Posted - 2010.11.10 17:36:00 - [29] Originally by: Magron1 rant So did you look at what else is coming in the incursion expansion? A lot of small fixes and upgrades. Off the top of my head: rocket balance, T2 short ammo change, fighterbomber change, shortcut system and dual monitor support. It's not like the 18months and similar comments didn't cause a lot of bad PR and angry CSMs who made sure CCP understood the issue. This little gem however: Quote: If they're going to...make highsec even more pvp friendly me and a lot of people are going to take another look at finding someplace else to spend our money. makes me wonder why you're playing eve in the first place. Originally by: CCP Lemur THIS IS GOD: ... IF YOU HAVE ANY MORE REQUESTS I'M AVAILABLE SUNDAY FROM 10:30 TO 12:00 TO RECEIVE YOUR PRAYERS.
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.11.10 17:43:00 - [30] Originally by: Magron1 70% of their PAYING CUSTOMERS want no part of forced combat or pvp. This number was pulled out of his *%^&, it is not true. The minority of people want no combat, this is a pvp game, the game isnt for them. Most of the people you are talking about dont even exist, go play hello kitty online.



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