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When are "UNprobable" ships getting nerfed?

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Aessoroz	Posted - 2010.11.12 15:50:00 - [31] Originally by: Buzz Killingdon Forgive my ignorance, but what is an unprobable ship? As in, how do you make a ship unprobable without a cloaking device? Theres a ratio between ship sig radius and sensor strength that is you break using ECCM mods will make your ship impossible to probe down, very few ships however can pull it off because the need for low sig radius and high sensor strength automatically makes it impossible for battlecruisers and up. However I've been in a gang where we hade a fully maxed out Loki pilot boosting a gang of hacs and 20+ rifters to make them unprobable in combination with local eccm mods.
Buzz Killingdon	Posted - 2010.11.12 16:01:00 - [32] oic, I think I get it. So higher sensor strength ships are harder to probe? So at what sensor strength is a ship considered hard or impossible to probe? If it's all relative to sig radius, then let's say a battlecruiser sig radius.
Mavnas	Posted - 2010.11.12 16:06:00 - [33] Originally by: Buzz Killingdon oic, I think I get it. So higher sensor strength ships are harder to probe? So at what sensor strength is a ship considered hard or impossible to probe? If it's all relative to sig radius, then let's say a battlecruiser sig radius. The most common number I hear is sig radius/ sensor strength < 1.08. So a battlecruiser, will almost certainly not be able to become un-probable.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.11.12 16:27:00 - [34] Originally by: Skex Relbore Probing down ~~mission runners~~ stupid people is still going to be ridiculously easy. Not any easier than it was before. Not any harder than it was before. But, it will become a lot harder to successfully probe down non-stupid people. Stop sounding so whiney. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2010.11.12 16:27:00 - [35] Originally by: Mavnas And how much, DPS, speed, and tank are you giving up for all those subsystems allowing you to not get caught and cloak? It's the perfect example of risk vs. reward. You mitigate risks by giving up the stats that let you get more ISK/hr. You refit, genius. Only use cloak for traveling when you get a mission away from agent system. You don't actually do the mission with a cloaking offensive subsystem. It's an excellent example of absolutely no risk. You can only die if you crash/freeze at the wrong moment.
Mavnas	Posted - 2010.11.12 16:45:00 - [36] Originally by: Vrabac Originally by: Mavnas And how much, DPS, speed, and tank are you giving up for all those subsystems allowing you to not get caught and cloak? It's the perfect example of risk vs. reward. You mitigate risks by giving up the stats that let you get more ISK/hr. You refit, genius. Only use cloak for traveling when you get a mission away from agent system. You don't actually do the mission with a cloaking offensive subsystem. It's an excellent example of absolutely no risk. You can only die if you crash/freeze at the wrong moment. I haven't really done a lot of stuff in low/null-sec, but in high sec I often get sent to systems with no stations. Not to mention that docking/refitting also takes time you could be spending earning ISK if you didn't care about your safety.
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2010.11.12 17:12:00 - [37] Originally by: Mavnas I haven't really done a lot of stuff in low/null-sec, but in high sec I often get sent to systems with no stations. Not to mention that docking/refitting also takes time you could be spending earning ISK if you didn't care about your safety. Most of the systems I saw had stations, around several different hubs. I mean I just did it yesterday for several hours. For the ones that don't have one, you use scout for entering or in case of not having one or having access to multiple agents, you just refuse it. Many low sec mission hubs have 3-4 lvl4 agents in a single station and given the immunity to any form of gankage there's no reason not to pick those over more quiet ones with a single agent. You could compare it to running a mission in a marauder in a safe system, then it's really obvious marauder is better, however point is marauder isn't usable like that. You either need control over that area or you need to be in high sec. For first solution you need muscle, for second you get pathetic lp. With unprobable t3 you can do missions literally ANYWHERE no matter what with 100% safety except unfortunate events such as badly timed crashes or something along the lines. So it's not you sacrifice some isk/h to get some safety, you sacrifice some dps/range to get total immunity, and with total immunity and ability to run missions whenever no matter how many probing hostiles in local you can hardly claim you're losing isk/h.
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation	Posted - 2010.11.12 17:55:00 - [38] Originally by: Vrabac Originally by: Mavnas I haven't really done a lot of stuff in low/null-sec, but in high sec I often get sent to systems with no stations. Not to mention that docking/refitting also takes time you could be spending earning ISK if you didn't care about your safety. Most of the systems I saw had stations, around several different hubs. I mean I just did it yesterday for several hours. For the ones that don't have one, you use scout for entering or in case of not having one or having access to multiple agents, you just refuse it. Many low sec mission hubs have 3-4 lvl4 agents in a single station and given the immunity to any form of gankage there's no reason not to pick those over more quiet ones with a single agent. If they are docking to change subsystems they become vulnerable when they undock to head to the mission space. Sure it's harder than scanning down a battle ship but considering the time and isk invested as well as the loss of skill points they are facing if they actually get caught, it seems to me like it should be incredibly ****ing hard to kill them. Why is it perfectly ok for a Mission thief to be able to operate with complete impunity from retribution, but not ok for someone willing to invest close to a billion isk and a couple months minimum skill time to be able to mission with reduced efficiency in relative peace? There is a definite pattern here. Fail Gankbear see's juicy easy kill just out of their grasp so they cry and cry for CCP to change the game to give them access to those easy kills. Completely overlooking the fact that if they got their way those tempting potential killmails would disappear because their prey would adapt to the new circumstance. Do away with unprobable T3's and people will stop running missions in them and you can start paying 200 mil or more a pop for your dramiels. Cry moar it gives me a tingle.
Vrabac Zawa's Fan Club	Posted - 2010.11.12 18:47:00 - [39] Originally by: Skex Relbore If they are docking to change subsystems they become vulnerable when they undock to head to the mission space. I like the way I keep disagreeing with idiots.
Leksi Bar'zuk	Posted - 2010.11.12 18:52:00 - [40] Edited by: Leksi Bar''zuk on 12/11/2010 18:55:54 Originally by: Fail Piwatse But bro, i'm in lowsec pirate and need t3 tear- er kills with loot to sustain my jawsome and gnarly lifestyle sitckin it to the man (did I mention I pay cash and sell plex regularly, lulz). But rly i'm just in it 4 bearz to die srsly they shud gb2WoW so I can just hunt other pirtz and be even more empty lowsec spaze, lorlforlf. -Piwatse Grow some balls and camp in nullsec (good bubble team can catch a t3 even with a diction nullifier) or stfu and learn to take whatever you get. Living in lolsec is a choice and you're consequently going to loose a lot of targets. Similarly, you won't get pounded by the likes me an my alliance becase we don't bother to up-root and dragass into fail-space with our fleets unless we're using it as a jump-off point to invade elsewhere. You lowsec players get less risk than us and want even moar tearz (rather than isk reward), well sorry Jr. that's not how it works. Take off your training wheels some day and join us in the real EVE or move back to empire and suicide ganking. Lowsec will always be that half-assed pvp where players are always safe enough to use a full hq implant set and get away with it.
Draco Rosso Caldari Draconian Armada	Posted - 2010.11.12 19:15:00 - [41] Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk Edited by: Leksi Bar''zuk on 12/11/2010 18:55:54 Originally by: Fail Piwatse But bro, i'm in lowsec pirate and need t3 tear- er kills with loot to sustain my jawsome and gnarly lifestyle sitckin it to the man (did I mention I pay cash and sell plex regularly, lulz). But rly i'm just in it 4 bearz to die srsly they shud gb2WoW so I can just hunt other pirtz and be even more empty lowsec spaze, lorlforlf. -Piwatse Grow some balls and camp in nullsec (good bubble team can catch a t3 even with a diction nullifier) or stfu and learn to take whatever you get. Living in lolsec is a choice and you're consequently going to loose a lot of targets. Similarly, you won't get pounded by the likes me an my alliance becase we don't bother to up-root and dragass into fail-space with our fleets unless we're using it as a jump-off point to invade elsewhere. You lowsec players get less risk than us and want even moar tearz (rather than isk reward), well sorry Jr. that's not how it works. Take off your training wheels some day and join us in the real EVE or move back to empire and suicide ganking. Lowsec will always be that half-assed pvp where players are always safe enough to use a full hq implant set and get away with it. +1 ------------------------------------------------ We are recruiting Website http://draconianarmada.com Recruitment Thread http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1316229
Damien Du'Pont	Posted - 2010.11.12 19:24:00 - [42] Originally by: Leksi Bar'zuk Edited by: Leksi Bar''zuk on 12/11/2010 18:55:54 Originally by: Fail Piwatse But bro, i'm in lowsec pirate and need t3 tear- er kills with loot to sustain my jawsome and gnarly lifestyle sitckin it to the man (did I mention I pay cash and sell plex regularly, lulz). But rly i'm just in it 4 bearz to die srsly they shud gb2WoW so I can just hunt other pirtz and be even more empty lowsec spaze, lorlforlf. -Piwatse Grow some balls and camp in nullsec (good bubble team can catch a t3 even with a diction nullifier) or stfu and learn to take whatever you get. Living in lolsec is a choice and you're consequently going to loose a lot of targets. Similarly, you won't get pounded by the likes me an my alliance becase we don't bother to up-root and dragass into fail-space with our fleets unless we're using it as a jump-off point to invade elsewhere. You lowsec players get less risk than us and want even moar tearz (rather than isk reward), well sorry Jr. that's not how it works. Take off your training wheels some day and join us in the real EVE or move back to empire and suicide ganking. Lowsec will always be that half-assed pvp where players are always safe enough to use a full hq implant set and get away with it. Well said!
Skex Relbore Gallente Red Federation	Posted - 2010.11.12 22:13:00 - [43] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Skex Relbore Probing down ~~mission runners~~ stupid people is still going to be ridiculously easy. Not any easier than it was before. Not any harder than it was before. But, it will become a lot harder to successfully probe down non-stupid people. Stop sounding so whiney. -Liang Oh this is rich. Being accused of whining by someone whining to CCP to change a mechanic. lol Damn there went another Irony meter.
Leksi Bar'zuk	Posted - 2010.11.12 22:17:00 - [44] Originally by: Skex Relbore Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Skex Relbore Probing down ~~mission runners~~ stupid people is still going to be ridiculously easy. Not any easier than it was before. Not any harder than it was before. But, it will become a lot harder to successfully probe down non-stupid people. Stop sounding so whiney. -Liang Oh this is rich. Being accused of whining by someone whining to CCP to change a mechanic. lol Damn there went another Irony meter. I like where this is going.
Harry Voyager Obscurity LLC	Posted - 2010.11.13 00:37:00 - [45] Pirating is always going to be a losing proposition, simply because they don't create anything in game, and only act as a materials sink. They might occasionally get some fab loot from the ship they just fragged, but it's going to be more than compensated by the amount of stuff they have to destroy to get to it. This is why low sec space will always be poor, even while Empire and Alliance space are both filthy stinking rich.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.11.13 00:45:00 - [46] Originally by: Harry Voyager Pirating is always going to be a losing proposition, simply because they don't create anything in game Sure they do: they create demandà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.11.13 02:01:00 - [47] Originally by: Skex Relbore Oh this is rich. Being accused of whining by someone whining to CCP to change a mechanic. lol Damn there went another Irony meter. So I see you had nothing to say to about the topic at hand. Admitting defeat, you are. Carry on. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter Blog
Faffywaffy Fremen Sietch DarkSide.	Posted - 2010.11.13 02:13:00 - [48] Originally by: Aessoroz Theres a ratio between ship sig radius and sensor strength that is you break using ECCM mods will make your ship impossible to probe down, very few ships however can pull it off because the need for low sig radius and high sensor strength automatically makes it impossible for battlecruisers and up. I (well, Burn Eden, really) present to you the 4-ECCM (or 3 overheated) Nightmare with a Grail implant set and a Loki with Evasive Maneuvers link.
Leksi Bar'zuk	Posted - 2010.11.13 03:40:00 - [49] Edited by: Leksi Bar''zuk on 13/11/2010 03:42:04 Originally by: Liang Nuren Admitting defeat, you are. Originally by: Faffywaffy I (well, Burn Eden, really) present to you the 4-ECCM (or 3 overheated) Nightmare with a Grail implant set and a Loki with Evasive Maneuvers link. BE has all the fun -_-.
Mavnas	Posted - 2010.11.13 03:43:00 - [50] Originally by: Faffywaffy Originally by: Aessoroz Theres a ratio between ship sig radius and sensor strength that is you break using ECCM mods will make your ship impossible to probe down, very few ships however can pull it off because the need for low sig radius and high sensor strength automatically makes it impossible for battlecruisers and up. I (well, Burn Eden, really) present to you the 4-ECCM (or 3 overheated) Nightmare with a Grail implant set and a Loki with Evasive Maneuvers link. I somehow doubt that ship is particularly practical.
Dray Caldari Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.11.13 14:21:00 - [51] Originally by: Mavnas Originally by: Faffywaffy Originally by: Aessoroz Theres a ratio between ship sig radius and sensor strength that is you break using ECCM mods will make your ship impossible to probe down, very few ships however can pull it off because the need for low sig radius and high sensor strength automatically makes it impossible for battlecruisers and up. I (well, Burn Eden, really) present to you the 4-ECCM (or 3 overheated) Nightmare with a Grail implant set and a Loki with Evasive Maneuvers link. I somehow doubt that ship is particularly practical. You'd be surprised actually.
Lady Thanatos Nomadic Shadows	Posted - 2010.11.13 18:31:00 - [52] It has also been reported you can do it with a machariel as well
Dray Caldari Euphoria Released HYDRA RELOADED	Posted - 2010.11.13 22:18:00 - [53] Originally by: Baudolino Everything gets balanced. Missiles got balanced 3-4 times in the years i`ve played. Stacking penalties, nos nerf and of course the speed nerf.. speed was nerfed because dramatic speed gave a massive advantage. Being unprobable makes you invulnerable. There`s a vast conceptual crevice between the two. Being hard to probe is fair and balanced, being UNprobable is gamebreaking and not in line with the EVE universe. Will CCP let this one slide though- since the UNprobable players are the carebear and PvE community? Forgot to add "working as intended" so no nerf needed.
XXSketchxx Gallente Remote Soviet Industries	Posted - 2010.11.14 15:47:00 - [54] Linkage to CCP Dropbear discussing his use of this mechanic. My only gripe is the safespotted bonus giving. CCP has actually stated in the past that eventually they would like it such that warfare link modules only work when the giving ship is on grid so maybe some day we'll see this limitation. Otherwise, get over it.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.11.14 17:16:00 - [55] Originally by: Baudolino Being unprobable makes you invulnerable. There`s a vast conceptual crevice between the two. You have no idea how eve works do you? 0/10
Tasko Pal Aliastra	Posted - 2010.11.14 19:19:00 - [56] Originally by: Faffywaffy Originally by: Aessoroz Theres a ratio between ship sig radius and sensor strength that is you break using ECCM mods will make your ship impossible to probe down, very few ships however can pull it off because the need for low sig radius and high sensor strength automatically makes it impossible for battlecruisers and up. I (well, Burn Eden, really) present to you the 4-ECCM (or 3 overheated) Nightmare with a Grail implant set and a Loki with Evasive Maneuvers link. With a bit of work a cyclone (and I think a ferox too) can be made probe-proof. That's useful for some schemes though it's not worth the bother in general.
Packe Minmatar Interstellar eXodus BricK sQuAD.	Posted - 2010.11.14 21:54:00 - [57] I have killed an unprobable gang link loki over 60 au from any celestial. I have a virtue set alt with max skills that couldnt probe them down solo so they were truely 'unprobable'. Well, not really. Leaving a Loki in space will lead to its eventual death and all ships that were relying on it for safety. If you are going for 4 links you will find yourself in the market for some more officer co-pros.
Ghoest	Posted - 2010.11.14 22:58:00 - [58] @ OP haha crai more noob Seriously I mean it. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Commoner Caldari The Tuskers	Posted - 2010.11.14 23:39:00 - [59] Originally by: XXSketchxx Linkage to CCP Dropbear discussing his use of this mechanic. My only gripe is the safespotted bonus giving. CCP has actually stated in the past that eventually they would like it such that warfare link modules only work when the giving ship is on grid so maybe some day we'll see this limitation. Otherwise, get over it. If they do that, i hope they make warfare links passive mods ala. lowslot resist mods.
R'adeh Gallente Storm Solutions Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2010.11.15 00:59:00 - [60] Unnecessary nerf! In order to be unprobable, you have to sacrifice damage/tank to an extent that makes you a lot easier to kill. Also, while you're at a SS and unprobable, you are NOT able to hurt anyone...just like a cloaked ship sitting at a SS. _______________________________________________ <Random sig with a hot chick>

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