Originally by: Lord Zekk

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The thrasher is fine. If you can't take on ANY frigate hull with an auto/arti thrasher then it's because of your lack of piloting ability.

Many ships in Eve need to be flown properly and used in a particular way to be effective.

The Coercer is an excellent Dessie except for the fact that it doesn't have a second mid. Fare enough. Give it that and it should be fine with a a bit of PG, CPU tweaking accordingly.

The Cat and the Caldari one need a bit of reworking.

The role of dessies however is fine. Anti frigate boat but gets it's ass kicked by cruisers.

Just need a bit of tweaking not a complete overhall.

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Originally by: Anyura

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The anti-cloaking destroyer sounds like a good idea - sort of like a submarine hunter. Perhaps a sonar-like module could be introduced - works in a similar way to a smartbomb except it doesn't do any damage, has a vastly greater range and forces cloaked vessels to decloak for a few seconds. Not long, but long enough for an Inty to lock on to.

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Originally by: Cobalt Sixty

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Originally by: Anyura

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The anti-cloaking destroyer sounds like a good idea - sort of like a submarine hunter. Perhaps a sonar-like module could be introduced - works in a similar way to a smartbomb except it doesn't do any damage, has a vastly greater range and forces cloaked vessels to decloak for a few seconds. Not long, but long enough for an Inty to lock on to.

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Basically, the reasons I've already suggested using the Smart Bomb are because that:

1) The mechanism already exists in-game, ships damaged by a Smart Bomb will be decloaked. AFAIK once decloaked a ship cannot instantly recloak anyway. Even if it could, the exposure should force it to reposition if discovered even briefly.

2) Because it builds on an existing mechanism it shouldn't be as difficult to produce as a whole new system may be ... all you have to do then is figure the math to reduce damage to be negligible and then decide on the effective range and R.o.F. it operates at for balance (hardest process I imagine...).

Using the Smart Bomb is the most elegant solution I can conceive for implementing that kind of functional upgrade to the Destroyer class. I'm not saying it needs that functionality as a class, just that this feels like the simplest solution to do it if you want Destroyers to have that kind of role.

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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Originally by: Cobalt Sixty

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Originally by: Anyura

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The anti-cloaking destroyer sounds like a good idea - sort of like a submarine hunter. Perhaps a sonar-like module could be introduced - works in a similar way to a smartbomb except it doesn't do any damage, has a vastly greater range and forces cloaked vessels to decloak for a few seconds. Not long, but long enough for an Inty to lock on to.

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Basically, the reasons I've already suggested using the Smart Bomb are because that:

1) The mechanism already exists in-game, ships damaged by a Smart Bomb will be decloaked. AFAIK once decloaked a ship cannot instantly recloak anyway. Even if it could, the exposure should force it to reposition if discovered even briefly.

2) Because it builds on an existing mechanism it shouldn't be as difficult to produce as a whole new system may be ... all you have to do then is figure the math to reduce damage to be negligible and then decide on the effective range and R.o.F. it operates at for balance (hardest process I imagine...).

Using the Smart Bomb is the most elegant solution I can conceive for implementing that kind of functional upgrade to the Destroyer class. I'm not saying it needs that functionality as a class, just that this feels like the simplest solution to do it if you want Destroyers to have that kind of role.

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The flaw with your logic is that smartbombs do NOT currently decloak anything.
They're also computationally expensive, because of the area-effect damage effect, which means that AOE weapons are unpopular with CCP, because they cause lag.

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• Are based around an alpha strike. This alone should tell you they're broken as one race is the "king" of alpha. Thrashers have a larger alpha and greater DPS then any other destroyer out there.

• The retribution can do 90% of what the coercer can do and won't blow up when you look at it.

• The Harpy does EVERYTHING better then the cormorant.

• Catalyst

• There's a new dedicated salvaging ship that will replace destroyers in a role they shouldn't have to begin with.

• Massive fitting problems on all of the destroyers. The Catalyst fitting 2nd tier guns still can't fill all 8 high slots w/o help.

Originally by: Zarnak Wulf

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Yawn. Out come the trolls. Destroyers:

• Are based around an alpha strike. This alone should tell you they're broken as one race is the "king" of alpha. Thrashers have a larger alpha and greater DPS then any other destroyer out there.

• The retribution can do 90% of what the coercer can do and won't blow up when you look at it.

• The Harpy does EVERYTHING better then the cormorant.

• Catalyst

• There's a new dedicated salvaging ship that will replace destroyers in a role they shouldn't have to begin with.

• Massive fitting problems on all of the destroyers. The Catalyst fitting 2nd tier guns still can't fill all 8 high slots w/o help.

To sum it up "anti-frigate" is not a role. It's a fitting choice. I can make a caracal a frigate eater. That doesn't mean that's my only selection for the ship.

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Originally by: James Lyrus

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well, you can't fit a rack of 150mm rails to a Cormorant, even without any modules fit.

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Originally by: Zarnak Wulf

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Edited by: Zarnak Wulf on 15/11/2010 17:13:53
Destroyers get used for level 1 and 2 missions, salvaging, faction warfare, solo roams, and lolfleets. That's it. I stopped using my Thrasher a long time ago. The ships you can fight won't engage you and it's hard to jump into any kind of smalll roaming gang b/c you will blow as soon as you're targeted.

Noone is saying that in a 1v1 against a frigate the destroyer doesn't do a great job. What's being said is that is too limited of a role to justify a ship class. It's too fragile to run in a fleet. And they truly will be obsolete once AF get a fourth bonus and/or buffed. That's happening soon. "AF and EAF are next in line" per CCP.

If you're fine with destroyers only fulfilling the roles listed above - great. Just spare me the "AF are ruining the destroyer role" whines down the road.

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