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Derth Ramir
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Posted - 2010.11.14 18:11:00 -
[1]
This is not a nerf thread for super carriers this is an idea to balance them between each other.
First off, all super carriers should receive different drone bonuses.This wil keep them balanced and won't encourage blobing of just one type of super carrier **cough** cough** nyx
Nyx-5%damage for fighter/ fighter bomber per level (stays the same)
Aeon-5% increase in fighter/fighter bomber armor hit points per level
Wyvern-5% increase in fighter/fighter bomber shield hit points per level
Hel- 10% reduction in fighter/ fighter bomber signature radius per level
Keep all their original bonuses.
Give the nyx 5% bonus to Shield and Armor transfer amount per level
Hope you like my idea
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McEivalley
Cutting Edge Incorporated RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.14 18:47:00 -
[2]
Originally by: Derth Ramir This is not a nerf thread for super carriers this is an idea to balance them between each other.
...*clipped*
Nyx-5%damage for fighter/ fighter bomber per level (stays the same)
Aeon-5% increase in fighter/fighter bomber armor hit points per level
Wyvern-5% increase in fighter/fighter bomber shield hit points per level
Hel- 10% reduction in fighter/ fighter bomber signature radius per level
What do we use fighter bombers for? kill anything that is the size of a BS or larger. So Nyx bonus according to you is still useful. The rest means that it might be harder to kill other SCs fighters but all are still useless compared to the nyx bonuses you suggested.
Besides, it's not just the FBs the nyx surpasses with other SCs. It's the overall performance of tank, slot layout, cap recharge etc combined. The change will have to be much more drastic, especially if you wish to see the Hel more frequently.
Editing your watchlist |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
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Posted - 2010.11.14 21:02:00 -
[3]
I think you miss the point of the "SC's are OP" complaints entirely.
They have far too much damage and EHP to justify their "low" cost. Combined with eWar immunity and the seemingly endless supply of the things (the cause of blobbage) and the real issue emerges ..
Making small tweaks to them will yield no result whatsoever if they do not have a natural counter and can be mass-produced (literally).
Refashion dreads to have more stamina/oomph to use against SC's and/or make fighter bombers a lot more vulnerable (double signature, lower EHP for example) and the SC blob ceases to be the iWin button it is currently.
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Markus Reese
Caldari Lorentzian Expeditionaries
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Posted - 2010.11.14 21:09:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Markus Reese on 14/11/2010 21:10:54 I am by no means a supercarrier pilot, but imho, I would rather have the extra defence on my multibillion isk ship as apposed to my much lower priced fighters. Cept the hel, for the ability to park and fit logi, I would rather have the nid over the Hel. (lest can get a few to spider?) Heck, 20% more effective hp on the aeon and wyvern, that is nice too. Sure the Nyx has the damage, but in a heavy firefight, it will be a much easier kill over the amarrian and caldari.
Edit: I missed the keep the previous bonus part, but comments still stand. Keeping original bonuses would make it worse in fact, because then the nyx can spidertank much better in combination with the more dps.
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Sephiroth CloneIIV
United Space Sphere Coalition United Front Alliance
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Posted - 2010.11.14 22:41:00 -
[5]
I don't think they are over powered for the cost. Its just that to take them out, you need a large fleet of ships, maybe at least half the value of supers themselves. Though, in order to bring such a fleet to a system to take out a small fleet of supers would lag out the system, giving advantage to the defender, who are supers.
Signature removed for having inappropriate content. Zymurgist |
Pinky Starstrider
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Posted - 2010.11.14 23:09:00 -
[6]
They should just be nerfed to Capital Ship levels in terms of EHP, Fittings, CPU, PG, Drone bays etc etc etc. Then one day when CCP can actually make balanced super caps that can be destroyed by decent sized fleets instead of pulverizing them without sweating, then put in a SC level.
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Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.14 23:12:00 -
[7]
What happened to them being 'rare'? Thats how you balance them, make them rare like they're supposed to be. Sig ---
Quote: Originally by Oveur: High security empire space is supposed to be quite safe. ... That's the whole point of high security.
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Douchie McNitpick
Money Liberation Services Corp
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Posted - 2010.11.15 00:13:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona What happened to them being 'rare'? Thats how you balance them, make them rare like they're supposed to be.
Doesn't work. If they're overpowered, they will be used in excess.
Limiting factor in Eve is not isk but manpower. It makes perfect sense to pay extraordinarily large amounts of money to get more strength per pilot on the field, which is why supercaps are tremendously popular. Pinky Starstrider is entirely correct, changing all scaps to be on the level of tier2 caps would solve the issue until ccp comes up with a non-combat role for them. The recent QEN illustrates how pressing this issue is.
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Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.15 01:35:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Douchie McNitpick
Originally by: Infinity Ziona What happened to them being 'rare'? Thats how you balance them, make them rare like they're supposed to be.
Doesn't work. If they're overpowered, they will be used in excess.
Limiting factor in Eve is not isk but manpower. It makes perfect sense to pay extraordinarily large amounts of money to get more strength per pilot on the field, which is why supercaps are tremendously popular. Pinky Starstrider is entirely correct, changing all scaps to be on the level of tier2 caps would solve the issue until ccp comes up with a non-combat role for them. The recent QEN illustrates how pressing this issue is.
If the time to produce a super carrier was significantly increased then isk wouldn't be a factor, time would. Sig ---
Quote: Originally by Oveur: High security empire space is supposed to be quite safe. ... That's the whole point of high security.
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About Mesale
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Posted - 2010.11.15 03:48:00 -
[10]
Edited by: About Mesale on 15/11/2010 03:48:07
Originally by: Infinity Ziona
Originally by: Douchie McNitpick
Originally by: Infinity Ziona What happened to them being 'rare'? Thats how you balance them, make them rare like they're supposed to be.
Doesn't work. If they're overpowered, they will be used in excess.
Limiting factor in Eve is not isk but manpower. It makes perfect sense to pay extraordinarily large amounts of money to get more strength per pilot on the field, which is why supercaps are tremendously popular. Pinky Starstrider is entirely correct, changing all scaps to be on the level of tier2 caps would solve the issue until ccp comes up with a non-combat role for them. The recent QEN illustrates how pressing this issue is.
If the time to produce a super carrier was significantly increased then isk wouldn't be a factor, time would.
Irrelevant. Just online more pos and use existing sc to ensure nobody can overcome the power gap between people who have sc and who have not. It's not like we didn't have any precedent that balancing by cost (and time is just another cost factor) just makes the situation worse.
The ships are the problem. They're too powerful, have no weaknesses and made lots of classes obsolete. You won't change that by pretending to fix the problem with an increase in cost.
//edit: Derp, stupid forum resetting my default character all the time..
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Infinity Ziona
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.15 08:01:00 -
[11]
I like the idea of a superpower ship in limited numbers. Nerfing them would be crappy.
So limiting them by time would not be effective. A limit on the number of facilities that can build them, per region, per alliance, based on Sov, per whatever.
Theres more then one way of limiting ships other then nerfing them. Sig ---
Quote: Originally by Oveur: High security empire space is supposed to be quite safe. ... That's the whole point of high security.
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Atius Tirawa
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.11.15 08:59:00 -
[12]
I smell troll OP -
for one, you buff the fighter bombers - which should be te other way. What should happen is fighter bomber damage is reduced significantly (by 25 - 50%) and their ability to do damage on BBs and lower reduced significantly. Make moms the uber logistics ships they were ment to be - they have massive EHP, great logistics to spider and support a fleet, and are e-war immune. But take away their teeth so they require real support to do any real damage.
Then the OP says the Nyx should get a tranfer amount bonus to th Nyx. . .which is the Hel's MO. Moms are pretty balanced, if anything the only mom that needs som help is the Hel, - it needs a transfer amount and cap use bonus buff - 7.5% from 5% amount and 5% cap use (as a single bonus). and it needs to have its slot layouts re-evaluated more - either dedicate it as proper shield tanker or an armor tanker - th fact that its a better armor tanker now really speaks volumes.
but really, the last thing we need for Moms is to spcilize them as fighter-bomber ships. . .they are already far too removed from their logisical role as it is, either shift hteir focus back to being th fleet suppot super-capital or remove the lgostics entierly and make thm front lin super-capitals and re-evaluate the bonus's and the whole concept again.
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GizzyBoy
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Posted - 2010.11.15 09:48:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Atius Tirawa I smell troll OP -
for one, you buff the fighter bombers - which should be te other way. What should happen is fighter bomber damage is reduced significantly (by 25 - 50%) and their ability to do damage on BBs and lower reduced significantly. Make moms the uber logistics ships they were ment to be - they have massive EHP, great logistics to spider and support a fleet, and are e-war immune. But take away their teeth so they require real support to do any real damage.
Then the OP says the Nyx should get a tranfer amount bonus to th Nyx. . .which is the Hel's MO. Moms are pretty balanced, if anything the only mom that needs som help is the Hel, - it needs a transfer amount and cap use bonus buff - 7.5% from 5% amount and 5% cap use (as a single bonus). and it needs to have its slot layouts re-evaluated more - either dedicate it as proper shield tanker or an armor tanker - th fact that its a better armor tanker now really speaks volumes.
but really, the last thing we need for Moms is to spcilize them as fighter-bomber ships. . .they are already far too removed from their logisical role as it is, either shift hteir focus back to being th fleet suppot super-capital or remove the lgostics entierly and make thm front lin super-capitals and re-evaluate the bonus's and the whole concept again.
If you move them back to logi status all that happens is we get more titans, now the reason so many people are rolling around in sc's is that that cant undock from them with out a resonable fear some ones going to nick it, I dont want to say let them be dockable, but at least that means at some point that pilot might fly around in another ship for a change. as it is they are for all intents stuck in that ship till it dies.
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Covert Kitty
Amarr ISK Solutions SRS.
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Posted - 2010.11.15 16:16:00 -
[14]
Most people have alts that are capable of sitting in their supercaps while they are off doing other stuff.
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Scatim Helicon
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.11.15 17:54:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Infinity Ziona If the time to produce a super carrier was significantly increased then isk wouldn't be a factor, time would.
Making them harder to produce would merely serve to cement the status quo, with EVE divided into those who already had massive supercap fleets and those struggling to catch up (and having their CSAAs repeatedly sieged in the process). Its the same problem as with the suggestion that the mineral cost be massively increased - it doesn't do anything about the thousand or so ships that already exist.
My own thoughts are that Supercarriers need a few (relatively modest) reductions to their EHP, dronebay, and the effectiveness of their fighterbombers, as well as some modifications to universal logoff mechanics to reduce the possibility of ctrl-q'ing your supercap when you get into trouble and relying on your ridiculous hitpoint buffer to survive the encounter until your ship vanishes.
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