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Frank Horrigan	Posted - 2005.01.10 13:26:00 - [1] After seeing lots of "these people were greifers, i offred them millions and they still blew me up!" some of these people were just were miners or agent runners. now Why do you go up to a miner in 0.4, kill him, not take an offer for 5 mill isk? what do you want his uber miner 2's? if this kind of problem continues to grow, im afriad lots of people will quit. for that guy who just lost a raven fittid with officer loot. 1. that was stupid to take into 0.4 but the pirates fitted a large smartbomb, to get the pod.... now thats just greifing... no randsome or anything. discuss.... Originally by: Oveur Originally by: Bhaal What has turned out better than expected? Everything. Remember, we're from Iceland. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This i
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2005.01.10 13:45:00 - [2] Personally i find accepting money to let someone go and then killing him somewhat sad. I know from friends thats also a pain in the ass for real pirates become no sane pilot would pay, changes are youll die anyway. --------------------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Zandramus	Posted - 2005.01.10 13:46:00 - [3] Well, Basically you have people in the game who are forced into the .1 to .4 systems because they do not belong to an alliance, and cannot mine or hunt in alliance space. Then you have your pirates that find these people easy prey because these area's are not patrolled by an alliance. it has caused these areas to be far more dangerous than 0.0 alliance space. dont really know a good solution other than to get more people into the alliances and out to 0.0 as they are getting into their first cruisers and what not. Put them with a mentor in the corps out in 0.0 and keep them out of pirate space. Zandramus Zandramus Parking Violations Officer Geminate Division S.A.S
Craobuhr	Posted - 2005.01.10 13:59:00 - [4] I just love to pod people with my SBs But killing someone deliberately after they've paid the ransom... never, that's just ebil. And very bad for the business too.
Zandramus	Posted - 2005.01.10 14:31:00 - [5] You know I just read the thread about the alliance guy that got ganked in a .4 and I got to say that this guy must not get out much, and welcome to the rest of the game that 90 pct of the players have to deal with on a day to day basis. .1 to .4 is not a safe place to go anymore. Zandramus Zandramus Parking Violations Officer Geminate Division S.A.S
Haxar	Posted - 2005.01.10 14:40:00 - [6] Edited by: Haxar on 10/01/2005 14:44:49 0.1 - 0.4 was never ever a safe place to go. My poor Merlin got shot into bits by a Megathron in a 0.4 System about a year ago as I was flying back to my Agent after a Mission. Happens.
MiracleMaker	Posted - 2005.01.10 15:17:00 - [7] Edited by: MiracleMaker on 10/01/2005 15:18:42 Frank's fear about people leaving the game is spot on. If they have to fear the "griefer" every time they go for a quick jaunt into, say 0.4, they won't. That means they'll never truely love this game. Mind you the risk involved in low sector is there for a reason. My corpmates and I live it everyday, but face it,if you aren't prepared or don't expect someone to try and blast you for no reason, you are dreaming. Wouldn't you rather ransome someone 5 times a week for 5mil instead of blowing up his/her BS just once? All the ISK they put into clones and insurance could be yours. I think there really aren't pirates left because most people stopped acting like pirates and became 12 year olds with BS's. spelling edit, not a strong suit _______________________________________________ Making Miracles, One pod at a time*
Frankinator	Posted - 2005.01.10 16:14:00 - [8] Edited by: Frankinator on 10/01/2005 16:14:43 Please, give me proper means to actually hold someone still and I will ransom them. Until then I'll gladly play the pschychopath role.
dethanor	Posted - 2005.01.10 16:27:00 - [9] heya Frankinator, long time no see. on topic though, not all 0.4 or 0.3 area's are littered with pirates. it does depend which corps actually operate in the area's to try and make them a better place. I know of a couple of former pirate infested systems that have been cleansed. you just have to test the water a little and be vigilant. but i do understand what you are saying though regardless There is no art more beautiful nor diverse than the art of death!!! Oberon Tech II Sales.
Domalais	Posted - 2005.01.10 17:22:00 - [10] I blame the killboards. You're seeing piracy and good gameplay replaced by "stats."

Hepatitis	Posted - 2005.01.10 18:19:00 - [11] about 90% of evers are griefers. it will never stop, it will just get worse. ----------------------------------------- I am a forumaholic.
Frank Horrigan	Posted - 2005.01.10 18:35:00 - [12] Im just wondering... what happens when 2 pirates meet in the same system? do they duel it out for rights to the system? lol.... Originally by: Oveur Originally by: Bhaal What has turned out better than expected? Everything. Remember, we're from Iceland. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This i
Dianabolic	Posted - 2005.01.10 18:55:00 - [13] CCP overnerfed the pirate profession, so the "pirates" just do what they can do to make sure they at least get something out of what they do. The tactic of fitting a large smartbomb to get pods is a good one - it means that, if you don't pay the ransom while you're in your ship you are FAR more likely to lose your pod and implants.
seeyouauntie	Posted - 2005.01.10 18:56:00 - [14] Originally by: Frank Horrigan After seeing lots of "these people were greifers, i offred them millions and they still blew me up!" some of these people were just were miners or agent runners. now Why do you go up to a miner in 0.4, kill him, not take an offer for 5 mill isk? 5 mil isk isn't that much. It only takes a few rats out in 0.0 to make that. Basically, we don't need money. We have that. It's the hope that you find some rare stuff when you blow a guy up. ---------------------------------- I <3 mining.
RollinDutchMasters	Posted - 2005.01.10 19:16:00 - [15] There are 1158 systems in EVE with a security status of .5 or above. If you cant survive in the relatively tame low-security space, go play in the CONCORD sandbox. P.S. Read my sig. Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
Liu Kaskakka	Posted - 2005.01.10 19:45:00 - [16] Originally by: Frank Horrigan if this kind of problem continues to grow, im afriad lots of people will quit. Good riddance ..
Ellandrian D'Amerathe	Posted - 2005.01.10 23:32:00 - [17] I think there are too many different definitions of griefing right now and that is what is really leading to most of the arguements I see. Here is how I see it, as if anyone cares... It comes down to motivation. If a player is working towards the attainment of a tangable, in game goal, using the game as written without exploiting its flaws, its not griefplay. Whether that goal be profit, secure space, killing all members of race XYZ (good role play reason), mercenary action against the enemies of a corp thats paying you, its all legitimate in game. All of the above is Eve. I'm not even opposed to ore thieves, I dont like them, but are they griefers ? No, they have a profit motive for what they do and are taking advantage of but not expoliting a game mechanic. There is a very easy way to avoid them, dont put ore in jet cans which seem to be to be sort of a floating garbage can anyway, not a storage unit. Grief play is usually defined as deriving the bulk of your enjoyment in a game from causing misery to others. The only two things I've seen that fall in to griefing in my mind are playing for pure body count without regard for anything else and trade scamming.
Karneh Vorous	Posted - 2005.01.11 01:17:00 - [18] Personally I pod players with the SB solely to shut them up. If I take out a Hauler in 0.4 - 0.1 space I'm doing so in hopes of a "big score". If I leave this guy alive in system I'm stuck watching him call me a noob for the next hour and telling every person who jumps in that I've wronged him in some horrible way. Instead, I pod him and send him back to his clone to (hopefully) a system far away. I often wish there wasn't a local channel.... /agreed that podding someone after they offer a ransom is just stupid. Eventually the word gets out that your word means nothing and people just won't pay anymore.
Zarquon Beeblebrox	Posted - 2005.01.11 03:55:00 - [19] Edited by: Zarquon Beeblebrox on 11/01/2005 03:59:28 Edited by: Zarquon Beeblebrox on 11/01/2005 03:58:39 pvp in eve can never be grifing. What disturb me, is all the people coming to eve saying they dont want a pvp game. This is a pvp game, but you dont have to partisipate. But you can also never be 100% sure never to _have to_ partisipate. So you should all ways be prepared for the worce to happend. Why pod, well it have nothing to do with grifing. With to days insurences there is no way to inflict damage to the wallet but poding them. I just came back one of this days to low sec empire. Not to grife, not really to make isk. But to get my sec status back to -10. After almost 6 mnt in 0.0 my sec status had droped to -8.8 only from killing gate rats. And there is no way for me to keep my sec status low but to kill in low sec empire. - To shoot at someone i get -0.5% - To kill someone i get -2.0% - To pod someone i get -12.5% Tho i prefere tolling. The first day i came to empire this time. I found a ferox in a belt with a caracal and some frig. The system was full off people and i was not familiare with the local hirarcy. So i did not feel safe enough even in a raven to keep the ferox scrambled and take the time to convo for a toll. So i killed it. I also had a smart bomb so i poded him. Now why did i pod ? Well not to make isk. But to make him loos isk. Also next time if i get to catch this player again i dont have to spend extra 2 minutes explaining that if he dont pay. I dont only kill him, i pod him too. Now he knows, and the chances for him to pay a toll to me next time when i ask for one. Is greater then it was this first time. -- Lady Beeblebrox Teddybears movies
Rillian	Posted - 2005.01.11 16:50:00 - [20] Originally by: Zarquon Beeblebrox Edited by: Zarquon Beeblebrox on 11/01/2005 03:59:28 Edited by: Zarquon Beeblebrox on 11/01/2005 03:58:39 pvp in eve can never be grifing. What disturb me, is all the people coming to eve saying they dont want a pvp game. This is a pvp game, but you dont have to partisipate. But you can also never be 100% sure never to _have to_ partisipate. So you should all ways be prepared for the worce to happend. Why pod, well it have nothing to do with grifing. With to days insurences there is no way to inflict damage to the wallet but poding them. I just came back one of this days to low sec empire. Not to grife, not really to make isk. But to get my sec status back to -10. After almost 6 mnt in 0.0 my sec status had droped to -8.8 only from killing gate rats. And there is no way for me to keep my sec status low but to kill in low sec empire. - To shoot at someone i get -0.5% - To kill someone i get -2.0% - To pod someone i get -12.5% Tho i prefere tolling. The first day i came to empire this time. I found a ferox in a belt with a caracal and some frig. The system was full off people and i was not familiare with the local hirarcy. So i did not feel safe enough even in a raven to keep the ferox scrambled and take the time to convo for a toll. So i killed it. I also had a smart bomb so i poded him. Now why did i pod ? Well not to make isk. But to make him loos isk. Also next time if i get to catch this player again i dont have to spend extra 2 minutes explaining that if he dont pay. I dont only kill him, i pod him too. Now he knows, and the chances for him to pay a toll to me next time when i ask for one. Is greater then it was this first time. Problem with this Zarquon Beeblebrox is sence you already podded him he now has no implants so other then taking the ship / clone hit in isk the next time you catch him/her, which totals probably comes close to the ransome amount figuring in that you already destroyed the ship. I for one will take the podding and refuse to pay you any isk at all and take the cost of another clone. Thing is Pirates dont understand most people will ransom their ships over their clone but pirates will destroy the ship then try and ransom the pod when most people already have been podded and with the cost of implants now who is buying them?

Surly Bob	Posted - 2005.01.11 16:58:00 - [21] Edited by: Surly Bob on 11/01/2005 17:02:38 Killing somebody in a PvP game is not "griefing". In lowsec space, you can be killed for any reason, at any time. Nobody is under any obligation to offer "terms of surrender" or "ransom". Didn't you read the note on the stargate? Don't take anything into 0.4 that you can't afford to lose. You signed on to play A PVP GAME, now live with it. Otherwise, go play Everquest, you whiney carebears.
Usharin Silverberg	Posted - 2005.01.11 17:43:00 - [22] "EVE is a massive multiplayer online game (MMOG) set in a science-fiction based, persistent world. Players take the role of spaceship pilots seeking fame, fortune, and adventure in a huge, complex, exciting, and sometimes hostile galaxy." Where does it say Eve is a PvP game, Hmmm? Eve has PvP, true, but it is NOT a PvP game - counter strike is a PvP game. That said, I do enjoy a bit of PvP, but its not the reason I play the game - Eve has much more scope than that. Just my 2 ISK's worth.
Hepatitis	Posted - 2005.01.11 17:47:00 - [23] ah well said Usharin. and Surly Bob the concept of griefing can only happen in a PvP environment. ----------------------------------------- I am a forumaholic.
Surly Bob	Posted - 2005.01.11 17:51:00 - [24] Edited by: Surly Bob on 11/01/2005 17:51:39 "EVE is a massive multiplayer online game (MMOG) set in a science-fiction based, persistent world. Players take the role of spaceship pilots seeking fame, fortune, and adventure in a huge, complex, exciting, and sometimes hostile galaxy." Come now, even the mobs gategank in EVE. You aren't going to sit there and pretend that PC pirates in 0.4 space are some kind of design flaw, are you? Besides, if he didn't kill them, the carebears would be complaining about paying a ransom. It won't end with these people until PvP is nothing but arranged duels and EVE becomes yet another graphical chatroom. EVE is the way it is by design. if you don't like core game mechanics like non-consensual PvP in lowsec space, play another game.
RollinDutchMasters	Posted - 2005.01.11 17:52:00 - [25] Edited by: RollinDutchMasters on 11/01/2005 17:54:03 Originally by: Hepatitis ah well said Usharin. and Surly Bob the concept of griefing can only happen in a PvP environment. Because kill-stealing, loot theft, and vandalism cant happen in non-PvP games, right? The Sims Online has a serious greifing problem, I guess they must be PvP too. A PvP environment means that you can usually fight back against the people who kill/maim/steal from you. A non-PvP environment means that you can whine to the GMs like an impotent little ***. See the difference? Originally by:** Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
Surly Bob	Posted - 2005.01.11 18:03:00 - [26] CCP gave you a big, huge sandbox to play in where the beeg, baaad, pirates can't hurt your precious uninsured ship equipped with zero defenses. If you want the big hauls, the big missions, you have to leave the sandbox. It's called RISK/REWARD, which I'm sure is a pretty alien concept to you moronic Everquest veterans who honestly believe in your little pea brains that "PvP is griefing". You have insurance. You have a clone. You have the option of mounting guns. You have the option of making friends and bringing along muscle. Running works great. Try it, next time a scarry pir8 warps in, instead of hovering your mouse over the "petition" button.
MiracleMaker	Posted - 2005.01.11 18:22:00 - [27] If you don't give them something to whine about, they are only blowing smoke out their AB's crying about the loss. Don't respond to their posts. It's the folks who take ransom and still blow up ships, or still fly around with ransom lists in their Bio's and don't adhere to it. These things make the little ones cry out to mommy. If you're going to ransom, take it and go otherwise BLAST'm if they don't pay. If you aren't going to ransom, then BLAST'm, take the loot and go. Forget about what they cry about in local or forums. If no one is listening to them, then does anyone care they died in <0.4 space? _______________________________________________ Making Miracles, One pod at a time
Kira Natel	Posted - 2005.01.12 04:57:00 - [28] Altho it will never happen- CCP should either make Eve PvE or shard the server and put all the whiny PvP'ers in 1 system with all the ships and weapons they need and let them have at it.
seeyouauntie	Posted - 2005.01.12 16:44:00 - [29] Originally by: Kira Natel Altho it will never happen- CCP should either make Eve PvE or shard the server and put all the whiny PvP'ers in 1 system with all the ships and weapons they need and let them have at it. No. That's a stupid idea. ---------------------------------- I <3 mining.
Frank Horrigan	Posted - 2005.01.12 19:06:00 - [30] Originally by: Surly Bob Edited by: Surly Bob on 11/01/2005 17:02:38 Killing somebody in a PvP game is not "griefing". In lowsec space, you can be killed for any reason, at any time. Nobody is under any obligation to offer "terms of surrender" or "ransom". Didn't you read the note on the stargate? Don't take anything into 0.4 that you can't afford to lose. You signed on to play A PVP GAME, now live with it. Otherwise, go play Everquest, you whiney carebears. Anything I take into 0.4 space I am Ready to lose. That does not however make the act of killing me non-greifing Originally by: Oveur Originally by: Bhaal What has turned out better than expected? Everything. Remember, we're from Iceland. (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This i



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