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Mateo Parks
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Posted - 2010.11.18 14:27:00 -
[1]
I'm currently flying a Raven, and I'm looking for an upgrade.
my skills are well tended to, and I've earned the certificates for Active and passive shield tanking, and Missle control all at improved.
my question is: Which ship runs missions faster? a Golem or a Tengu? or do they complement each other?
As a timescale: how long does each take to plow through a Guristas Extravaganza?
-Internet Spaceship Pilot, since November 2008 |
Carniflex
StarHunt
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.11.18 14:31:00 -
[2]
They more like complement each other. However if you have only and only one ship to run missions then Golem is on average a bit faster. Tengu is good ship, but being cruiser sized hull it just not being quite able to put out as lot damage as a battleship class hull can. Take a look at Nighthawk as well it's sort of like Tengu (if you are in hi sec and dont need cloak + bubble immunity).
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Indy Indy
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Posted - 2010.11.18 14:49:00 -
[3]
For Isk/hr a golem will win most of the time if you have good torp skills and can afford a nice fit. TP's are a must.
Tengu is a great all around ship as it has more range most of the time and is generally better vs smaller ships.
That being said if you can run both or even add a CNR to the mix you can selectivley pick which ship for which mission.
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Mateo test
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Posted - 2010.11.18 15:09:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Indy Indy
That being said if you can run both or even add a CNR to the mix you can selectivley pick which ship for which mission.
That's interesting! In what situations might a CNR be better than a Golem?
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Indy Indy
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Posted - 2010.11.18 15:17:00 -
[5]
The first part of Worlds Collide comes to mind. With a torp Golem you are gonna have max like 60k range with Javs. CNR should be faster. I guess I havent really checked to dmg on a cruise golem though.
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Tusen Takk
Guy Fawkes Trust Fund
31ST Reliables Division
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Posted - 2010.11.18 16:11:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Indy Indy
The first part of Worlds Collide comes to mind. With a torp Golem you are gonna have max like 60k range with Javs. CNR should be faster. I guess I havent really checked to dmg on a cruise golem though.
yeah i tried that with torps once and lost my ship
failed the mission and lost .2standing as well so had to go back to lower quality agent for a few missions
so not cool
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Missy Sasha
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Posted - 2010.11.18 17:22:00 -
[7]
you would use a golem for missions that are close range BS. Use a tengu for stuff where you have to fly somewhere or shoot things far away. I use a cnr instead of a golem and a nightmare for everything em tho.
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Assegai Developments
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Posted - 2010.11.18 20:02:00 -
[8]
so much misinformation :D take a quick look at EFT and you will see the golem and CNR suck pretty badly in comperison to the tengu. using torps yes you can get alot more DPS but have gimped range (if you use any type of ammo worth using) and a extremely low damage rate on smaller targets. a golem gets about 550 DPS with cruise with good skills, and a tengu also gets 550 with good skills (but with heavy missiles) since both do the same DPS, you ALWAYS go with the tengu because it's smaller missiles hit all targets better. also the active tank on a tengu is great, a T2 fit can still get you a cap stable 1000 + defence tank, not to mention if you are a complete carebear and want to deadspace it out. the tengu is very flexible as far as it's mids (take out extra tank, and put in TP or something like that) and overall it is a better ship unless you have epic hardons for gimp range torps.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.11.18 20:47:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Mateo test
Originally by: Indy Indy
That being said if you can run both or even add a CNR to the mix you can selectivley pick which ship for which mission.
That's interesting! In what situations might a CNR be better than a Golem?
cnr is great for blitzing missions with spawns at great range, with a signal amp II you get 121km lock range. great for blitzing the assault, or for blockade where things spawn at range. not completely sure about worlds collide, haven't run it in the cnr in a while, but from what I remember you can kill the spawn while flying to the gate and pretty much get to the gate as the npcs die.
the one mission where I think the tengu shines is worlds collide, with its good targeting range, missile projection, and speed with afterburner. plus you can pretty easily take full aggro with the speed tank, or blitz it.
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Indy Indy
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Posted - 2010.11.18 20:59:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Assegai Developments
so much misinformation :D take a quick look at EFT and you will see the golem and CNR suck pretty badly in comperison to the tengu. using torps yes you can get alot more DPS but have gimped range (if you use any type of ammo worth using) and a extremely low damage rate on smaller targets. a golem gets about 550 DPS with cruise with good skills, and a tengu also gets 550 with good skills (but with heavy missiles) since both do the same DPS, you ALWAYS go with the tengu because it's smaller missiles hit all targets better. also the active tank on a tengu is great, a T2 fit can still get you a cap stable 1000 + defence tank, not to mention if you are a complete carebear and want to deadspace it out. the tengu is very flexible as far as it's mids (take out extra tank, and put in TP or something like that) and overall it is a better ship unless you have epic hardons for gimp range torps.
if everything is going to be in range the golem will **** the tengu in mission time. You dont need a 1k tank on any lvl 4 mission. Most can be done with less than 400 especially with the dps you are putting out with the golem. The are several fits for golems where dual or even triple tps are used and you can 1 volley almost every small ship.
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MarvinJeni
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Posted - 2010.11.18 21:21:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Assegai Developments
so much misinformation :D take a quick look at EFT and you will see the golem and CNR suck pretty badly in comperison to the tengu. using torps yes you can get alot more DPS but have gimped range (if you use any type of ammo worth using) and a extremely low damage rate on smaller targets. a golem gets about 550 DPS with cruise with good skills, and a tengu also gets 550 with good skills (but with heavy missiles) since both do the same DPS, you ALWAYS go with the tengu because it's smaller missiles hit all targets better. also the active tank on a tengu is great, a T2 fit can still get you a cap stable 1000 + defence tank, not to mention if you are a complete carebear and want to deadspace it out. the tengu is very flexible as far as it's mids (take out extra tank, and put in TP or something like that) and overall it is a better ship unless you have epic hardons for gimp range torps.
i like how he says use eft instead of ingame experience. what a farking tard.
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Sigaar
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Posted - 2010.11.18 21:42:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Assegai Developments
so much misinformation :D take a quick look at EFT and you will see the golem and CNR suck pretty badly in comperison to the tengu. using torps yes you can get alot more DPS but have gimped range (if you use any type of ammo worth using) and a extremely low damage rate on smaller targets. a golem gets about 550 DPS with cruise with good skills
Ye sure. You are clearly smart to fit cruise on a golem.
My golem gets 1000 dps at 60km range and around 1400dps at 35km with t2 torps.
Having 3 target painters and 5 t2 small drones deal with EVERYTHING just fine.
Perfect skills for golem and torps here. I use CNR for missions where i need longer range or / and want to blitz.
Also looting on the fly and then salvaging after a set of 5-6 missions having all my wrecks at pretty much one place due to 40km tractors doing its job.
Your tengu will NEVER see my isk/hr.
Well maybe on few missions where you need to fly a lot due to blitzing + selling lp.
Tengu is a good ship if you dont have skills to fit and fly golem properly.
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Materia Hunter
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Posted - 2010.11.18 21:51:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Materia Hunter on 18/11/2010 21:52:42
Got to keep this short, but I fly both. Here are my general feelings towards them:
*Golem 'feels' like it has more DPS when fitted correctly. Mainly when dealing with battleships
*The Tengu is more 'fun' to fly.
*The Tengu takes significantly less time to travel between gates. Some of the missions I run have gates at a fair distance apart. The Golem, even with a AB can take a while, which kills the completion time.
*I feel (personal opinion, I'm sure others will disagree) The Golem is complemented better than a Tengu if you have an alt in a second account. An Domi + T2 sentries set to assist will annihilate anything very quickly. You can fit the Golem entirely gank by doing this and RR the Golem from the Domi.
*Did I say the Golem is slow compared to the Tengu?
*The Golem can actually salvage well as you kill, as long as you can do basic multitasking. If you don't normally salvage after, the extra ISK off this can be quite nice.
*The Tengu can also run sites that a BS can't get into (helping people out on a L3 or a DED site for example).
*The speed of the Tengu can also be its tank. I only say this as a Golem in Amarr space (blood rats) already has a resistance hole in its shields, which is where I play.
My general feeling after flying both for quite a while is that there is no 'best'. Something like 'the blockade' will get done in no time in a Golem, but others take longer due to the range. Some blood raider missions for example can have them spawn at 100KMish, and they are VERY slow coming towards you  .
Also, the Golem feels big and dumb and believe it or not, can get a bit boring. The Tengu has more of the 'fun' factor.
I'm sure that don't help you much, but they are different beasts. I promise you though that you won't be unhappy with either as long as you fit it correctly :)
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.11.18 22:03:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Materia Hunter
Also, the Golem feels big and dumb and believe it or not, can get a bit boring. The Tengu has more of the 'fun' factor.
fun is subjective, I feel completely opposite of the ships. the golem is fun to fly as npcs die so fast, where the tengu has a fall asleep at the keyboard worthy tank and not so awesome dps, its so much "fun" that I forget I'm even flying it.
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it440
Caldari
OZ industries and Technology
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Posted - 2010.11.19 11:22:00 -
[15]
go Golem!
the 1100ish dps and 3 extra highs (i use 2 tractors and 1 tech II salvager) with the bonus to tractors and huge cargo to hold loot makes the Golem a no brainer for missions. Rage torps hit out to about 33-34k makes very fast work out of battleship npc's and the Javs hit out to about 58k with rigs and will hit anything that will try and orbit you afar. and your drones can take care of any pesky frigs in the area.
Tengu is great if you dont want to loot and salvage and dont mind taking longer to kill the battleships. no drone bay but it eats frigs rather quickly anyway. oh and you will go through a hell of a lot of missles.
CCP supports this message. I think. |
Trebor Whettam
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Posted - 2010.11.19 15:01:00 -
[16]
Quote:
Also, the Golem feels big and dumb and believe it or not, can get a bit boring. The Tengu has more of the 'fun' factor.
I understand that fun is a subjective thing, but calling the Golem "dumb" compared to the Tengu is just plain wrong.
The Tengu is simply the most brain-dead mission ship ever created. Don't get me wrong; it's an awesome, flexible ship that can do anything, but in mission mode it's ridiculously simple to fly. Load furies and shoot big things. When big things are dead, load non-furies and shoot frigates. Range? Meaningless. Tracking / damage projectiong? What's that? You don't even fiddle with drones. Given the same fitting setup, the difference between an elite pilot and a mediocre one will be nearly non-existent.
Meanwhile, the Golem is one of the most engaging mission ships available. To wringe the best performance out of one you have to be fully aware of range and spawn points. You typically have to switch back in forth between ammo types throughout the mission, and it's important to know which ships to prefer with which type of ammo. Making the long TP cycle-time work for you is another vital wrinkle. Finally, you get to loot and salvage all the while. The difference between an elite Golem pilot and a mediocre one is substantial.
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Mythic Man
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Posted - 2010.11.19 15:15:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Trebor Whettam
Quote:
Also, the Golem feels big and dumb and believe it or not, can get a bit boring. The Tengu has more of the 'fun' factor.
I understand that fun is a subjective thing, but calling the Golem "dumb" compared to the Tengu is just plain wrong.
The Tengu is simply the most brain-dead mission ship ever created. Don't get me wrong; it's an awesome, flexible ship that can do anything, but in mission mode it's ridiculously simple to fly. Load furies and shoot big things. When big things are dead, load non-furies and shoot frigates. Range? Meaningless. Tracking / damage projectiong? What's that? You don't even fiddle with drones. Given the same fitting setup, the difference between an elite pilot and a mediocre one will be nearly non-existent.
Meanwhile, the Golem is one of the most engaging mission ships available. To wringe the best performance out of one you have to be fully aware of range and spawn points. You typically have to switch back in forth between ammo types throughout the mission, and it's important to know which ships to prefer with which type of ammo. Making the long TP cycle-time work for you is another vital wrinkle. Finally, you get to loot and salvage all the while. The difference between an elite Golem pilot and a mediocre one is substantial.
When you think all hope for brains in this game has gone, there it is.
You sir, win this thread.
+10
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Septu Resheph
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Posted - 2010.11.19 19:35:00 -
[18]
In my opinion, go get a friend to fly missions with, be able to fly both the tengu and golem. They both have their advantages and disadvantages based upon the mission. Best thing imo is to run with a friend, one in golem and one in tengu.
The Tengu can get there faster and start 1-2 volley killing frigs so it will kill them alot faster then a golem. When the golem finally gets its slow rump there it will destroy any and all BC and BS within range and then tractor and salvage in no time flat. Tengu pulls them in and gets rid of what can cause trouble (frigs) well the golem arives, it doesn't get much better then that.
Don't get me wrong, they can both tank very well, for sitting still straight up damage, the golem has a little advantage imo, for overall best tank if moving, the tengu is gona own at tanking. For overall gank, the tengu has 650-800 DPS out to 115km with HML and 900-1k DPS wiht HAMs out to 30km. The golem with torps is starting at 1k + DPS.
Yes you will go through a few more missiles on the tengu, but it bloody destroys **** in a hurry. A cruiser class vessel holding its own with a marauder, now thats nothing to scoff at. Tengu requires alot less thought to play, both are alot of fun.
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Damien Du'Pont
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Posted - 2010.11.19 20:27:00 -
[19]
Depends on what you really want from either ship, really. Some want the ship that will pump out the best isk/hr ratios no matter the alternative. I am lucky enough to have one toon able to fly both a tengu and a golem with another that can fly a tengu. So I have the option of taking 2 tengus or 1 golem/1 tengu to a mission. I am not too experienced with a golem yet, but I know a tengu compliments a golem real well. I generally like to use the Tengu to take out all frigates first. I don't give a crap about the loot/salvage frigates have, allowing hte larger ships to get within that sweet 40km range of my golem. Then it's lights out.
I personally prefer a tengu. I am not a fan of unsymmetrical designed ships and I find a golem one butt ugly looking ship. And I do like a tengu for exploration purposes as well.
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Bricuss
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Posted - 2010.11.19 21:03:00 -
[20]
Ohh, sweet, another golem vs tengu vs cnr thread. Like we needed a 100th one of these.
Maybe do a search and see some of the 20+ page threads already discussing this topic.
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Jessica Cromarty
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Posted - 2010.11.20 11:27:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Bricuss
Ohh, sweet, another golem vs tengu vs cnr thread. Like we needed a 100th one of these.
Maybe do a search and see some of the 20+ page threads already discussing this topic.
And see 20+ page threads with the infamous "Use da search bar, foolz!" replies too!
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Drakarin
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2010.11.20 12:20:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Indy Indy
Originally by: Assegai Developments
so much misinformation :D take a quick look at EFT and you will see the golem and CNR suck pretty badly in comperison to the tengu. using torps yes you can get alot more DPS but have gimped range (if you use any type of ammo worth using) and a extremely low damage rate on smaller targets. a golem gets about 550 DPS with cruise with good skills, and a tengu also gets 550 with good skills (but with heavy missiles) since both do the same DPS, you ALWAYS go with the tengu because it's smaller missiles hit all targets better. also the active tank on a tengu is great, a T2 fit can still get you a cap stable 1000 + defence tank, not to mention if you are a complete carebear and want to deadspace it out. the tengu is very flexible as far as it's mids (take out extra tank, and put in TP or something like that) and overall it is a better ship unless you have epic hardons for gimp range torps.
if everything is going to be in range the golem will **** the tengu in mission time. You dont need a 1k tank on any lvl 4 mission. Most can be done with less than 400 especially with the dps you are putting out with the golem. The are several fits for golems where dual or even triple tps are used and you can 1 volley almost every small ship.
Just a word of warning to anyone who does the mission Smash the Suppliers, if you do it solo I doubt there is any sub-capital ship capable of tanking the damage dealt when the second wave comes in. There are something like 23 elite battleships hitting 300s+ (with 80% EM resist and 72% thermal) constantly.
Just in-case you haven't done it, it'd be a damn shame to have your billion dollar tech 3 strategic cruiser alpha'd by NPC's. And yes, I am very bitter, I just lost my 200 million Rokh to that mission in 15 seconds.
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Target Painter
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Posted - 2010.11.20 12:26:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Target Painter on 20/11/2010 12:28:25
Edited by: Target Painter on 20/11/2010 12:28:07
Originally by: Drakarin
I just lost my 200 million Rokh to that mission in 15 seconds.
LOL. That ship is bad.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.11.20 12:28:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Drakarin
Just a word of warning to anyone who does the mission Smash the Suppliers, if you do it solo I doubt there is any sub-capital ship capable of tanking the damage dealt when the second wave comes in. There are something like 23 elite battleships hitting 300s+ (with 80% EM resist and 72% thermal) constantly.
Just in-case you haven't done it, it'd be a damn shame to have your billion dollar tech 3 strategic cruiser alpha'd by NPC's. And yes, I am very bitter, I just lost my 200 million Rokh to that mission in 15 seconds.
I would think the tengu would be one of the best ships for that mission. burn out and orbit at 100km where they can't really hit you.
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Misanthra
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Posted - 2010.11.20 13:33:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Drakarin
Just a word of warning to anyone who does the mission Smash the Suppliers, if you do it solo I doubt there is any sub-capital ship capable of tanking the damage dealt when the second wave comes in. There are something like 23 elite battleships hitting 300s+ (with 80% EM resist and 72% thermal) constantly.
Just in-case you haven't done it, it'd be a damn shame to have your billion dollar tech 3 strategic cruiser alpha'd by NPC's. And yes, I am very bitter, I just lost my 200 million Rokh to that mission in 15 seconds.
I would think the tengu would be one of the best ships for that mission. burn out and orbit at 100km where they can't really hit you.
this...I get a few missions where I get dumped with 15 bs' like bam (no triggers to mess up, its jsut straight up BS swarm). Speed tnak and grind from far out. How I do tengu pve
kill webs first
kill cruisers second
bs's last.
Only the 1st 2 hit decent. After that its see strikes from 15 bs' hit for almost no damage as I orbit at high speed.
And missioning in rokhs... Rokh pvp's, Raven pve's. Many have tried to prove this wrong...and failed. Wish you well on this venture, it will end in disappointment but keep on trying. At some point all the caldari rebels setting out to prove rokh is a good bs for pve wake up disillusioned and add to the raven fleets. Sooner you do this...happier you'll be.
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Sandrestal
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Posted - 2010.11.20 14:08:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton
Originally by: Drakarin
Just a word of warning to anyone who does the mission Smash the Suppliers, if you do it solo I doubt there is any sub-capital ship capable of tanking the damage dealt when the second wave comes in. There are something like 23 elite battleships hitting 300s+ (with 80% EM resist and 72% thermal) constantly.
Just in-case you haven't done it, it'd be a damn shame to have your billion dollar tech 3 strategic cruiser alpha'd by NPC's. And yes, I am very bitter, I just lost my 200 million Rokh to that mission in 15 seconds.
I would think the tengu would be one of the best ships for that mission. burn out and orbit at 100km where they can't really hit you.
Actually even a raven can do it. Fly out to 120k, aggro and then keep burning away. Kill the small stuff first then work up. If you have a second acct. with a Golem/Abaddon or Nightmare, warp them in after Raven draws full aggro. This is a mission where the Noctis will come in quite handy.
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Moose Burger
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Posted - 2010.11.20 14:15:00 -
[27]
Smash the supplier is a mission where one can easily earn 180+M isk/hour or 3M+ isk per minute.
Use a tengu. Fit it with AB.
Warp in, activate gate.
Target tower, Set range 110KM to the tower.
Click missiles(shoot with sourge fury)
wait 1 minute
warp of to your station.
5 minutes, for an easy 10K LP, some iskies. good times.
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Boinz
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Posted - 2010.11.20 18:58:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Drakarin
Just a word of warning to anyone who does the mission Smash the Suppliers, if you do it solo I doubt there is any sub-capital ship capable of tanking the damage dealt when the second wave comes in. There are something like 23 elite battleships hitting 300s+ (with 80% EM resist and 72% thermal) constantly.
Just in-case you haven't done it, it'd be a damn shame to have your billion dollar tech 3 strategic cruiser alpha'd by NPC's. And yes, I am very bitter, I just lost my 200 million Rokh to that mission in 15 seconds.[/quote
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3v3 Online
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Posted - 2010.11.29 23:46:00 -
[29]
I'd just like to say that many people say that the Tengu is good as shooting Cruisers and Below and the Golem is good at Battlecruiser and Battleships, but isn't the Battlecuisers and up where all the ISK is? Especially the battleships. So I think the best choice would be the Golem.
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Iron Eater
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Posted - 2010.11.30 03:29:00 -
[30]
Another point that hasnt been discussed yet and that most ppl oversee is that the Tengu has no drones. Killing the frigs in a Tengu is a pain even with a faction webber and rigor rigs while a Golem can kill frigs on the fly with its drones. This hurts the impressive EFT stats of the Tengu quite a lot.
The Tengu is one of the best pve ships but not as uber as most ppl think.
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