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Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.11 19:52:00 - [1] Nice convenient graph comparing a tier 2 battleship to a specialized tier 1. Why can't my geddon/apoc do EW as good as a scorp? NERF NERF Small minded goon. How about you propose to bring up the 800mm/neutron rather then call for a nerf. A nerf punishes those that have trained large pulse specialization, which takes a very long time. If you bring up the 800 and neutron, the megapulse users will not get **ed off, instead they will be neutral while projectile/hybrid users will be very happy. So lets see the logic here, we can make one large group **ed off or we can have one large group remain the same while making two other groups very happy. I wonder what is the more logical choice ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.11 19:55:00 - [2] Originally by: JoCool Mega Pulses do have too much range imo. Their optimal should get adjusted to 20km. With skills maxed they would get 25km optimal, 12.5km with MFs. That makes things dull and boring. Once again, i would like to see a constructive solution brought up to raise the projectiles/neutrons in a unique way. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.11 20:10:00 - [3] Originally by: Rexy Originally by: Meridius A nerf punishes those that have trained large pulse specialization, which takes a very long time. leaving stuff broken punishes the people investing in stuff like large projectile specialisations... just the way you look at it. Why don't you read lower a bit, you will see that i suggest raising projectiles/hybrids ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.11 20:14:00 - [4] Originally by: Grimpak hmm... do some balancing in the 'geddon then? it looks the most friendly option tbh... No it won't. Why don't you balance the scorp, it can take any bs out in a 1 on 1? It's ew output cannot be matched by any other ship. Nerf Tier 1's are meant to be specialized, the geddon is a no defense damage dealer that can be countered with a bloody cruiser ffs. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.11 20:32:00 - [5] Originally by: j0sephine "No it won't. Why don't you balance the scorp, it can take any bs out in a 1 on 1? It's ew output cannot be matched by any other ship. Nerf" ... Scorpion has firepower to take out anything bigger than a cruiser before it goes down itself? o.O; Hard to shoot at a scorp when you're jammed. So erm, yes ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.12 01:37:00 - [6] Originally by: Hakera why boost three when you can reduce one turret? doesnt make sense to do more work than is needed. First off you have to boost 2 not 3. Secondly, when you boost 2 you are making 2 groups quite happy. When you nerf 1 group, all you do is really ** people off. So whats better, keeping everyone happy, or **ing some people off? ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.12 01:38:00 - [7] Originally by: j0sephine "Also Amarran ships have ah... no competitive EW capability on any class... period." A Griffin or Cormorant with its 4 slots can be effective EW platform, yet the Apocalypse cannot? o.O Uh, maybe it's because a griffin cost like 200k? It's expendable for it's EW use through 4 med slots. A 100mil Apoc is not expendable, anyone using them for EW is a noob. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.12 03:50:00 - [8] Originally by: CCP Hammer The goal is to make projectiles "suck less" without turning them into the next flavor of the month. The plan is to give them a slight nudge here and there based on their intended role. I'd rather give multiple small nudges than boost them too much and have to nerf them. No one likes being nerfed. . I hope this topic dies now. It appears the devs would rather boost projectiles then nerf megapulse. If you disagree with boosting other guns, you're an idiot. End of story. Also, i hope the devs reduce the amount of cap hybrids use, they use way too much compared to lasers. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.12 03:59:00 - [9] Originally by: j0sephine "Uh, maybe it's because a griffin cost like 200k? It's expendable for it's EW use through 4 med slots." You misread what i said; i meant, 4 mid slots appear to be perfectly enough to cripple your opponents using the EW. It makes no difference how much you paid for the ship in question, since functionality of Originally by: j0sephine "Also Amarran ships have ah... no competitive EW capability on any class... period." A Griffin or Cormorant with its 4 slots can be effective EW platform, yet the Apocalypse cannot? o.O I did not misread what you said. Your statement implies that an apoc can be used as an effective EW platform. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.12 04:03:00 - [10] Originally by: Kaylona Tso And if you don't want to see anything happen to your pretty guns then why don't you join in with us Projectile users and say what I said the very first thread about projectiles sucking : Increase Tracking Slightly Increase Warp in distance to include 100k Give Typhoon another Turret point Boost Damage mod of the Tempest bonus oh but then you would have to actually deal with a long range setup actually working... which might make it harder to kill us Minny Pilots... so I guess its easier to just stall momentum with complaints that are unwarranted. I'm all for projectile boosts, just not all the ones you mention here (tempest dmg bonus (projectiles are already getting a dmg boost). ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.12 04:15:00 - [11] Originally by: Kaylona Tso Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Kaylona Tso And if you don't want to see anything happen to your pretty guns then why don't you join in with us Projectile users and say what I said the very first thread about projectiles sucking : Increase Tracking Slightly Increase Warp in distance to include 100k Give Typhoon another Turret point Boost Damage mod of the Tempest bonus oh but then you would have to actually deal with a long range setup actually working... which might make it harder to kill us Minny Pilots... so I guess its easier to just stall momentum with complaints that are unwarranted. I'm all for projectile boosts, just not all the ones you mention here (tempest dmg bonus (projectiles are already getting a dmg boost). Um... so when can we finally hava a role. There is no reason to have a long range setup not even for NPC hunting. When will 1400mm have a role that a tach cannot do better? even megathrons can do as good as a pest ~115km. Dude... damage increase... thats nowhere near the tip of a fix... the whole system is farked. a damage boost to fix the guns would have to be _WAY_TOO_MUCH_ to be be worth NOT putting megapulses on a tempest. If a long range setup needs a tackler... then why not a ganka setup that just uses megapulses and up to the 60k warp in range and keep the wingman to be safer tackler. I mean the whole point of this thread is that megapulses make nearly ever gun for BSs useless and not roleplayable... so PIE gets to roleplay with their own weapons while noone else really can. Hey man, don't tell me, i'm on your side. I don't use minmatar ships, don't expect me to think of solutions for your ships Post in the projectiles thread hammer has made. I would very much like to see projectiles/minmatar improved and most importantly, given a proper combat role. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.12 04:16:00 - [12] Originally by: Kaylona Tso I have the amarr frig 5 which is the most worthless skill to have for interceptors. You have a lot to learn my friend ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.14 01:26:00 - [13] Originally by: Hakera Recommendation then - a reduction in optimal range of approximatly 25% for the medium pulse, heavy pulse & mega pulse turrets. You want take 25% of the range of a medium pulse? That gun is the only thing that makes it half-worth using amarr inties. Fighting at range is the only thing that prevents them from becoming useless dust collectors. I'm glad you're not a dev, as you are a jackass. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.14 01:29:00 - [14] Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Hakera Recommendation then - a reduction in optimal range of approximatly 25% for the medium pulse, heavy pulse & mega pulse turrets. You want take 25% of the range of a medium pulse? That gun is the only thing that makes it half-worth using amarr inties. Fighting at range is the only thing that prevents them from becoming useless dust collectors. I'm glad you're not a dev, as you are a jackass. As some of you might think, i'm using cruel language. It is only because someone wants to nerf millions of sp invested in small, medium and large pulse specialization. So tell me again that it is better to nerf 1 set of guns rather then boost 2 others. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.14 04:30:00 - [15] Originally by: Nafri you dont get it, when you boost 2 other your gun will be nerfed too its all related to each other, and its better to nerf one then boost 2 No, because when the devs nerf something, they *nerf* it into uselessness Also, when 2 other guns are raised, i'm still getting what i trained for. If my gun is nerfed, my skillpoints go down the drain. If 2 other guns are raised, the people who have trained for those get a nice boost. I think the point you are missing is that something is wrong with other guns. Hybrids use way too much cap imo, they use ammo yet they can at times use more cap then lasers. Thats totally bs imo. No sense talking about projectiles, there is already a thread a DEV has made about fixing them. I don't want to have the uber gun, i like all guns to have a distinct role to make things interesting. Oh and btw, you no longer have to boost 2, hammerhead is already in the process of boosting projectiles. So guess what, you can either nerf 1 or boost 1. Heh. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.14 11:06:00 - [16] Originally by: Hakera whilst boosting everything else would avoid the unpleasentness of the nerf bat and keep you happy, the repercussions of such larger wide ranging changes would lead the further imbalance and the need for more drastic solutions rather than smaller step by step balancing. Projectiles are already being fixed, check hammerheads thread. It's no longer a matter of boosting 2 or nerfing 1. It's a matter of boosting 1 or nerfing 1. Same **. Stop trying to make it look more complex then it is. As i said, you can either boost hybrid blasters, or nerf the megapulse. Also, don't make this look like it's gonna make me happy or some , i'm not the only one who has invested millions of sp into laser specialization. So lets try this again, nerf megapulse and throw one groups sp out the door, or boost hybrids and everyone gets what they trained for or better**. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.14 11:09:00 - [17] Also, instead of nerfing megapulse range and making it another boring gun. Why don't you guys suggest a tracking nerf? I hear a lot of thron pilots that have problems with megapulse hitting under 10km, i agree. It shouldn't ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.14 11:50:00 - [18] Edited by: Meridius on 14/01/2005 11:51:11 Originally by: Rod Blaine Look Meridius, you fail to graps the core of the issue here. Pulses are wrong. The rest of the guns is not (or less so). Its not about boosting hybrid or projectiles because that would resuslt in 3 Uber guns to be used in all circumstances in no-brainer setups just like the megapulse. It would end up making the med range guns king of all and more or less reducing short range and long range situations to the realm of the forgotten, since neither short nor long does as much damage as med, and at the same time gets to be the most versatile, easiest to fit and maintain gun of all as well. You see, we don't want uber guns that fit every situation in this game, we want diversity in setups, having to balance your ships range, damage, tanking and cap with alot of thought instead of just being able to do it all with one fitting. this is why megapulses need to be nerfed rather then the rest boosted. I hate to break it to you but projectiles are being fixed (look at hh's thread). So when you say rest, you mean hybrid. I'm aboard for a megapulse tracking nerf to match it's superior range, whatever though, no dev has posted here yet so it looks like they are focused on fixing projectiles first. This is there game and they may actually like how the megapulse works right now. Wrong or right, it's not up to us. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.14 19:35:00 - [19] Edited by: Meridius on 14/01/2005 19:53:36 Originally by: Rod Blaine edit: ion balster has better tracking yes, but you try to hit something at its optimal without a web on it. Now try the same on the megapulses optimal. I think I was clear enough. there are two options to get the megapulse in line with reality again: 1. nerf range to give them a max stock optimal+faloff of 20km, make em insanely hard to fit so your geddon can only fit 6 and the apoc maybe 7. Do nothing to the damage. 2. nerf their damage and tracking to bring them in line with the 350mm rail and 1200 howie. And increase range accordingly. These are the options. You choose for all I care, but the uberness has got to end. Sorry, you seem to think it's actually up to you. It's not. What you propose is to put the megapulse back to how it way many many months ago before it got it's dmg mod upgraded. The time when nobody ever used it because it was 100% useless. Your ideas are bent on nerfing this gun into oblivion, gj. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.17 23:41:00 - [20] Originally by: X'Alor blaster pilots do not HAVE TO use MWD to be affective but CHOOSE TO. Yes they do have to. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.21 18:14:00 - [21] About laser damage types vs hybrid damage types... Heres an idea, why don't you use these wonderfull things called EM armour hardners? 1 hardner will give you 80% EM resist (85% on minmatar ships). If you see lasers as such a huge threat compared to hybrid, why not slap on hardners for it? It's pretty easy to neuter lasers via armor hardening. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.24 21:53:00 - [22] Hint 425's suck. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.25 01:10:00 - [23] Originally by: Alowishus I'll say this though, on an Apoc trying to kill a million isk rat can take quite awhile (Sansha, so lowest resist is already EM). I'd rather not see it take even longer to be honest. The Mega Pulse at most could use a tracking/fall off nerf, not a damage one. I want them to still hit the same at optimal if possible. If you're asking for a nerf to anything but the Mega Pulse ROF/Damage Modifier then I'm not going to say I'm onboard but I wouldn't have a great argument against it. I'll admit to being able to hit NPC BS at less that 1000m with MF in Mega Pulse. I wouldn't mind a tracking/falloff nerf. Just don't mess with the range, it's unique, let it be Less unique guns = boring I do think something is wrong with blasters, as in, they take up way too much cap. Consdering they use AMMO + Cap, it's just plain stupid imo. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.25 01:19:00 - [24] Originally by: Nafri Originally by: Alowishus I'll say this though, on an Apoc trying to kill a million isk rat can take quite awhile (Sansha, so lowest resist is already EM). I'd rather not see it take even longer to be honest. The Mega Pulse at most could use a tracking/fall off nerf, not a damage one. I want them to still hit the same at optimal if possible. If you're asking for a nerf to anything but the Mega Pulse ROF/Damage Modifier then I'm not going to say I'm onboard but I wouldn't have a great argument against it. I'll admit to being able to hit NPC BS at less that 1000m with MF in Mega Pulse. you ever seen someone using amegathron for NPCing? thy just suck and dont hit, so dont moan about apoc and npcing Yeah nobody npcs in a mega cause rails suck, ok. So umm, boost rails so people can NPC with them instead of nerfing our gun? Boost makes your SP more valuable and doesn't affect the millions we have put into our guns. Don't be selfish ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.27 17:10:00 - [25] Originally by: j0sephine "Whats going to happen to all the people who invested literally 2 - 3 months of training time to get MEga Pulse IIs when it gets nerfed back to uselessness?" They can switch to tech.2 beam lasers in less than a week, since the primary requirements are shared..? (~2 days for small beams, 5 days for medium beams and that's without implants or advanced learning skills) Er, so you openly support it's nerfing into uselessness? Why should i even bother training for beams when down the road they might be nerfed by the whiners as well? When does the nerf cycle end?? Projectiles are getting a boost, can't you guys keep your panties on and wait to see what happens? Small incremental changes 4TW ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.27 17:45:00 - [26] Originally by: Nafri YOU NOT SMART mkay? look grafs, mkay? see damages and ranges, mkay? do some math, mkay? dont post when no clue, mkay? I said small incremental changes dumbass. I never said it was fine. Get a ******* clue and stop whining 24/7. Believe me, you have no clue about proper game design so don't even bother acting like you know what will or will not 'balance' this game. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.27 18:22:00 - [27] Edited by: Meridius on 27/01/2005 18:23:54 Originally by: Daakkon Originally by: Meridius Originally by: Nafri YOU NOT SMART mkay? look grafs, mkay? see damages and ranges, mkay? do some math, mkay? dont post when no clue, mkay? I said small incremental changes dumbass. I never said it was fine. Get a ***** clue and stop whining 24/7. Believe me, you have no clue about proper game design so don't even bother acting like you know what will or will not 'balance' this game. Meridius do you actually honestly believe mega pulses are balanced? "I said small incremental changes dumbass" Please read what i say daak I never said they were balanced, i do want changes. Small changes, not *** 15% more req 15% less range 15% less tracking, that type of has happened in the past and it's why megapulse were absolutely USELESS for i dont know how many months. Hammerhead has written about the way they want to change things now, small incremental changes. They have learnt from past mistakes thats why they are doing it this way. Projectiles are getting boosted, now what i want is for hybrids to get a boost as well. Hybrids have always sucked, you know it, i know it (rails). Neutron blasters need fitting req reduction/less cap use. After projectiles get fixed we have 2 options, nerf megapulse, boost hybrids. If you think nerfing megapulse is the better move well then, i'm glad it's not up to you . Personally, i would tweak the tracking of megapulse after hybrids have been given a slight boost and see how things go from there. Originally by:** Oveur - Missile Overhaul - EW Overhaul - Fix some of the projectile turrets - Tech Level 2 Missiles, Charges, Launchers, Drones and EW. - Increased Hitpoints on all ships - Tech Level 2 ships and tweaks to them Do you see lasers being nerfed anywhere up there? No. 40 pages of whining and 1 dev response that wasn't really a response. Good work ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.27 23:41:00 - [28] Originally by: j0sephine Edited by: j0sephine on 27/01/2005 23:03:11 "Fit a tracking disruptor if Amarr guns are too* good."* If they are too good by your own admission, what is the reasoning behind keeping them too good? Technically he said 'if' j0. That is not an admission ;p ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.28 01:34:00 - [29] Originally by: j0sephine Edited by: j0sephine on 28/01/2005 01:21:22 "A decent raven setup can outdamage a geddon with mps AT ALMOST EVERY RANGE. Why no cry of nerf there?" With just the tech.1 skills and the respective ship boosts maxed, in raw dps the mega pulse will outdamage siege launcher with torpedoes by nearly 25% ... then you add to it 1 more weapon slot and 3 more slots for damage mods. And (optionally) tech.2 turrets with their skills adding the extra damage. meaning you have quite a room to switch to less powerful lenses and still maintain the firepower advantage (won't even bring the delay with missile damage over longer distance into it) What kind of a 'decent raven setup' are you thinking of here, and what kind of 'geddon setup isn't able to compete with that decent Raven? o.O; Anything but a gankgeddon would fall to a raven unless the raven had a horrible setup. My raven can kill a gankgeddon and absolutely wtfpwn inties/afs/cruisers. ________________________________________________________
Meridius	Posted - 2005.01.28 16:19:00 - [30] Originally by: j0sephine And how much of it is due to Raven's good tanking ability, rather than actual damage it's doing..? Am not questioning Raven has a very good combination of damage/survability, but the claim it can so easily outdamage a 'geddon with mega pulses. ^^;; Erm erm, i never said it can outdamage a geddon with pulses. You don't need to outdamage something to kill it ;0 ________________________________________________________

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