Originally by: Xybex

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Originally by: Abdiel Kavash

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Coming next year: Oh, scrap the mission feature, everybody will just get 20M ISK deposited in their wallets every hour.

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Learning skills were not a feature. They were as fun as jabbing yourself in the eye every day for a month while you trained them up. They added nothing to the game. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.

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Originally by: Lockefox

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Edited by: Lockefox on 25/11/2010 17:09:32
Okay, I tried to hunt down an official answer, but all I am seeing in this thread is player math.

So, can we please get a CCP response on what the new MAXIMUM attribute actually is? An explanation about how remap points will work from here forward would also be appreciated.

Is the maximum added still +11?
Do we still need to waste +1 on charisma?
Is 20 the new base attribute? (4+12 != 20)

My actual whining aside, I will be rather peeved if I lose my 33 primary attribute on all 3 of my characters. I specifically planned and trained for that boost, and to have the attribute taken away will leave a sour taste in my mouth.

Also, as a closing note:
CCP, I am rather annoyed with you guys for "shotgunning" this. With every other major game-changing feature, you took time to hear from the players... for this, we are just given a pill to swallow. It may be that the game is better in the long run for this, but I feel as if I was steamrolled by your decision.

I won't post my ranting dissent, seeing as there is no one listening.
~Locke

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Originally by: Malcanis

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Originally by: Xybex

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Originally by: Abdiel Kavash

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Coming next year: Oh, scrap the mission feature, everybody will just get 20M ISK deposited in their wallets every hour.

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Learning skills were not a feature. They were as fun as jabbing yourself in the eye every day for a month while you trained them up. They added nothing to the game. Nothing. Nothing. Nothing.

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One could say the same for missions...

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Originally by: Ovella

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I'll tell you a secret: no one makes you train skills at gunpoint either

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Originally by: Qarth

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So the people that spent the time to get to 5/5 in all their learning skills are getting the shaft. While the lazy ones that only did 5/4 and less are getting the gold. Basically sums it up.

I'm glad the damn things are going away. They were an impediment to getting into the game. But. CCP, you need to do something for the people that spent the boring months training the advanced learning skills to 5. 2 1/2 months was the time invested (rough figure) to get those skills all to 5. 72 SP an hour is the loss for these people, with this change. Would be nice of you to reward those that spent the time and effort to advance their character long term for this. Say those that have 5,376,000 SP in learning should get a bonus for having done the time others refused too.

So write a subroutine into the program that remembrances the SP and if they have the 5,376,000 SP in learning they get something extra. Another 10% added to their refunded SP. A 13th attribute point to spend. A full set of +5 implants. Give them something for doing the time you are throwing out the door now.

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Originally by: reads41

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This argument is bogus. You do NOT get a bonus of anything you simply get to reallocate sp's you have already earned. A SP is a SP, it doesn't matter what you label it. Your definition of effective skill points is just skill points that aren't in a learning skill. By shifting those learning skill points to another skill set doesn't gain you any skills, it just puts them into an area such as ship skills etc.

The 5.3 mil sp's you lose in 8.5 years is the effective nerf. You will lose that many do to the nerf of 72 sp/hour. So when looking at it over 8.5 years it is a big nerf.

The total sp's after the reallocation will be exactly the same except instead of using some for learning they will be reallocated to whatever you choose. The nerf is still 72 sp/hr effective immediately and continuing until it is changed again.

To say that learning skills do not actually do anything is bogus too. They allow you to skill faster so that you acquire more skills over time. Those skills that actually do something lol. I think for me it was a 2 year payback. So after 2 years i broke even to the point where i would be if i didnt have any learning skills and from that point moved ahead at a faster rate then i would have if i had not used learning skills.

So all the mumbo jumbo about effective sp's and a bonus do not mean anything. It is a nerf plain and simple of 72 sp/hr

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Originally by: Einear Lightfingers

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What I think you all are missing here is that this is just another step in the dumbing down of another perfect MMO. There are multiple steps to the phase and eventually this game will end up like the rest a bucket of bolts where they hope to pay the bills. It will take anothe 5 years but EVE is destined to be SWG all over again cause they cater to noobs and the only part of the player base. The CSM does not ask for input and if they do it is of course only over dressed by that one specified group. CSM should be made up of 1 person from each area. (1 PVP, 1 Trader, 1 Miner, 1 Manufacturer. and 1 Inventor) then you have a 20% chance of getting things done for you specific desire.

Past Additions That Reflect The Trend to EVE for Dummies...

1. Invention = T2 BPO holders have all the luck. First the seeding process and then all the free isk from building stuffs. Invention the nerf to T2 holders. Now we can all be producers with a little luck.

2. Wormhole = Added to stop the *****ing of high sec miners of not being able to get to low sec ore. (Secret that high sec miners found the hard way. PVP team slip in and eat the miners with no impact to sec status. Not visible on local...)

3. PI = Added to stop the *****ing of noobs about grinding level 1 and 2 missions to buy skill books. Anyone can do it. (Oh by the way click extravaganza. Can we add few bugs or patches the next time CCP tries to fix it?)

4. Learning Skills Surrendered = Even the dumbest of runts now learns as fast as the most progressive carebear. Take all that the carebear put on the shelf to be who he/she is to make his/her toon the best inventor/producer around. CCP wants the PVP group to learn like all the carebears can. (Side note when was the last carebear fix added? I know we have worked a ton on lag for fleet battles. PVPers win...)


Future Stuff...
8. Indestructible Ships = Why should I lose my ship for playing this game I worked hard for it and can't do anything else to earn a ship like it. Please save me from my stupidity. You did it with learning skills helps me here CCP..... (Market goes pop, not need to build nothing gets destroyed....)

(There will be things in between but it will all end in this fashion...)

If you do not believe this or can't read the writing on the wall look at Star Wars Galaxies. This happened a few years ago to reach out to younger players who said the learning curve was too high. SWG is now having a hard time paying the bills to keep the lights on. Is your stupidity that deep or your laziness? Kill yourself and not the game for all.

Elect CSM for what they can bring don't elect them cause they are a Kennedy... (WAKE UP MASSACHUSETTS)

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Originally by: northroop Grumman

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All we need now is the ability to be in a bar or barber getting a haircut, then we will have another awesome game! Think WoW will mind eVe copying them?

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Originally by: Clkte Flrke

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so again, it seems to me, that the long term player (ie: me with almost 7yrs) gets hosed again....oh well. its prolly time to quit eve anyway. after 7yrs, i surely can get more bang for my buck with another game that doesnt total morph itself to screw the veteran player. again, oh well, maybe i didnt read the blog right. and maybe i will calm down later....then again maybe not

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Originally by: Zaand Schtvaal

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Learning skills are not a requirement to play. No one held a gun to your head and forced you to queue them up.

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Originally by: Pyro Ninja

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Vote HERE to see how eve feels about the new change

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Originally by: Krome Dome

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Edited by: Krome Dome on 26/11/2010 21:42:34
Forgive me if this question has been posted already. But the way CCP makes it sound everyone's AP will be reset to 20/20/20/20/19 when they implement the change. My question is will this reset neural remapping.If a player just remapped last month will they get a grace and have a chance to change the remap or will the changes conform to each individuals remap. Thanks in advance for al the help.

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Originally by: Sebastian GZ

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The only problem with this is that its designed to coddle the whiney noobs. For those of us who sucked it up we now get screwed. Yes I realize I get my 5.376 million sp (yeah thats right I had all 11 skills at L5) but my SP per hour will go down. (and yes I realize they are giving me and every other player 12 attribute points back but that lowers my SP per hour. So it adds one extra day of training per month. If they are going to screw with the system it shouldnt penalize those of us who made the investment. THey need to raise it by 13 each so as not to penalize those of us who did things right

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Originally by: Sarnel Binora

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I have mixed emotions about this nerf. Is it good for me? Yes. Is it good for newbs? They'll never know. Do I like the fact that, basically speaking, everyone can train at exactly the same pace? Not really. EvE has never been about equality. Why start now?

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Originally by: devonii

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Originally by: CCP Stillman

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We're soon gonna remove learning skills from Singularity. Why don't you come and check it out, and gain some extra skill points on Singularity?

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Because I'm already at level 5 with +5 implants and will be LOSING skillpoints on Singularity. Oh wait....my four accounts aren't worth **** to CCP. They'll easily make this up now that EVE is easier for the new players. :) Nevermind...let me jump on and get this testing started so I can see how slow I train now. Maybe what you meant to say is, "redistribute the skillpoints you already had to something else"??? Wouldn't that be a much more accurate statement? Please remember CCP, we already trained these skillpoints. You aren't giving us anything. We aren't gaining anything. These aren't "extra" skillpoints. Please stop calling it that.

I am glad that you are at least letting us redistribute the points if you're taking learning skills away. This is NOT a gift of something extra though. Let's just be honest about and call a spade a spade. You are screwing some (granted not many) to benefit a lot of people. That is perfectly within your rights to do as the developers of this game....no need to lie about it or make this game anything other than a big screwfest. That is, after all, what EVE is all about. :)

Love all of you. (I want to kill you, pod you, take all your ISK, **** your naked dead clones ass, and **** your moms) but yes....I do love you and will still continue trying to take advantage of you at every possible opportunity.

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