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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Janus Varg
Smoke Jaguars
11
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:01:00 -
[61] - Quote
So does that mean I couldn't do that if I weren't AFK? I have two screens. I could easily do this and watch a movie or whatever.
I rather hope someone clarifies this. What exactly do we need to do not to count as AFK? It's perfectly possible that I'm at my keyboard and don't need to press anything. |
Jorma Morkkis
State War Academy Caldari State
137
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:11:00 -
[62] - Quote
So if I'm clearing the room with my main and have to alt-tab to my alt who is salvaging/looting in previous room. Does that count as "AFK"? |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
329
|
Posted - 2012.08.09 14:16:00 -
[63] - Quote
Frying Doom wrote: Actually given how low they have set the bar for bot detection, with only 2 data base errors and many thousands of bots eradicated, they are probably justified in there swagger that people they catch are most likely guilty.
I would accept their swagger if I actually believed the "only two false positives, both caused by a database error". I do not, and this thread is an example of why. The algorithm produced an unambiguious false positive (there was no macro or botting program), and that was neverthless declared a bot. Imagine the response when there's not such overwhelming proof a bot is impossible.
Team Security doesn't have only two false positives. Team Security has two false positives that they admit to and their other statements make it very clear they're very unwilling to look for them. |
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
654
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:19:00 -
[64] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:So if I'm clearing the room with my main and have to alt-tab to my alt who is salvaging/looting in previous room. Does that count as "AFK"?
Simple answer: no. Detailed answer: no.
Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm... |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
371
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:20:00 -
[65] - Quote
CCP ~cripes~ putting bots into the game, then banning all people who utilizes them. What are drones if not small bots shooting everything while on autoaggro??!? Combine this with autorespawning plexes and you'll get ISK printing machine. What about fixing those plexes instead CCP? |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
329
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:21:00 -
[66] - Quote
This isn't a security or botting issue or any other issue that touches Team Security. The instant the parties involved had explained the issue to Team Security and it was clear that no bots, RMT, or the like were involved, the botting warning should have been stripped from the account and the matter referred to the GM team and the game design team to decide if it was some sort of exploit that deserved punishment and/or fixing.
This is a GM decision, they've got the right tools and experience to deal with this sort of thing correctly, and fixing it is a game design issue for the designers. Team Security deciding to label it botting and yank it under their purview is nonsense. |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
329
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:21:00 -
[67] - Quote
Jorma Morkkis wrote:So if I'm clearing the room with my main and have to alt-tab to my alt who is salvaging/looting in previous room. Does that count as "AFK"? You have to ask the algorithm and it ain't talking. |
James 315
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
2262
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:27:00 -
[68] - Quote
And AFK miners complain when I get a "false positive" by suspecting them of being bots.
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+ MinerBumping.com -½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½-½The daily saga of one man's quest to bring civilization to highsec by bumping miners out of range. |
Lord Vakos
0ne Percent. Transmission Lost
5
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:29:00 -
[69] - Quote
This seems a little absurd to me. You admit people are using no third party software and are simply using in game mechanics in a way that was not intended, something like how Faction Warfare people are holding all systems at vulnerable for weeks at a time. This was clearly not an intended mechanic, but people are abusing it since it is effective. While I agree it is silly for people to be able to AFK farm in a Domi 23/7 this method of enforcement is a slippery slope. If you have a game mechanic that is not working as intended, fix it, do not punish people for taking advantage of it. |
Mangone
Ad Astra Vexillum The Unthinkables
33
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:42:00 -
[70] - Quote
Richard Desturned wrote:Snow Axe wrote:Is there any particular reason why a certain room in a certain complex even has to indefinitely spawn more BS rats? Seems to me like that's the problem, not people taking advantage of it. telling people "stop abusing it while we fix this" as a stopgap measure is also a solution to the problem of a complex that indefinitely spawns BS rats
Its more like request.. Solution is to ban abusers |
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EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
330
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:49:00 -
[71] - Quote
Lord Vakos wrote:This seems a little absurd to me. You admit people are using no third party software and are simply using in game mechanics in a way that was not intended, something like how Faction Warfare people are holding all systems at vulnerable for weeks at a time. This was clearly not an intended mechanic, but people are abusing it since it is effective. While I agree it is silly for people to be able to AFK farm in a Domi 23/7 this method of enforcement is a slippery slope. If you have a game mechanic that is not working as intended, fix it, do not punish people for taking advantage of it. Even if you want to declare something is an exploit, there's people who handle that and it's not team security. The GM team exists for this precise reason, and is the team that should be handling it when a bot or anything security-related is not involved. |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
371
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:52:00 -
[72] - Quote
doesnt make it less obscure to create PVE content which blatantly cries for certain ingame methods, then punish people who infact dare to apply those methods on it. |
Pak Narhoo
Knights of Kador
654
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:54:00 -
[73] - Quote
CCP Sreegs wrote:Dregol wrote:Anslo wrote:Richard Desturned wrote:Octoven wrote:Your point is valid; however, if they enforce that penalty on AFKing a complex then they must do the same with any other form of AFK actions Says who? You're talking about two totally different things here. No, you're wrong. AFK mining, AFK plexing, AFK missioning, AFK god damn ******* industry then should be policed as it makes isk while afk. Even if tending to the ship to empty ore or change drones or get new ones that popped, it's still an afk action while making isk. So no, you're wrong. Goon. Wrong. If you'd take the time to read this thread, you'd realize that there was a broken complex whereby people could AFK and have drones kill respawns 23/7. This is /not/ working as intended. AFKing through something that isn't respawning (regular complexes) is fine. What CCP is addressing is a mechanic whereby you can do nothing for hours on end and continue to make isk. My point from earlier still stands: isk should not be as easy to make as it is in high sec. I'm glad CCP is actively fixing bugs/broken mechanics, but there are mechanics far more broken than this. I'm merely going to quote this. It's not going to please everyone and certainly not going to please those who were making isk while going about their lives doing things other than playing EVE actively but at the end of the day we're only referring to situations in THIS PARTICULAR CASE where you could in theory generate isk 24 hours a day without ever touching your computer. This does not apply to every situation you might perhaps maybe possibly use sentry drones in and nobody's going to ban your accounts because you went to get a cup of coffee. There were however cases where this was being abused and so we're stating publically that abusing it is wrong and from this point forward the automated systems will handle it. Protip for the future: if your computer is logged in 24 (or way more than a person can) hours a day making money in a way that is meant to be active and you're not in front of it you're probably doing something wrong
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=142098&p=3
Hi, I'm CCP Arrow, I screwed up the.. ummm... |
Tomytronic
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
207
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:55:00 -
[74] - Quote
Sreegs seems pretty hot-headed for a guy in charge of punishing players. Maybe cooler heads should prevail? |
Herold Oldtimer
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
65
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Posted - 2012.08.09 14:58:00 -
[75] - Quote
No one should be awarded for inactivity. |
Algol Bailiwick
Bunnie Slayers Redrum Fleet
4
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:02:00 -
[76] - Quote
This is just a normal "this is an exploit so don't do it until we code it out of the game" notification, nothing more. The problem is the way CCP Sreegs wrote it makes it sound like he's declaring a a war on AFKing. I hope next time he writes something like this he will run it past a few political officers first! |
EvilweaselSA
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
335
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:06:00 -
[77] - Quote
Algol Bailiwick wrote:This is just a normal "this is an exploit so don't do it until we code it out of the game" notification, nothing more. The problem is the way CCP Sreegs wrote it makes it sound like he's declaring a a war on AFKing. I hope next time he writes something like this he will run it past a few political officers first! It's really not. Its "the botting algorithm has false positives, so we're redefining that as intended behavior". There is no indication whatsoever this is going to be fixed or there is, in fact, any exploit going on. A plex allows you to do something that Team Security (not the game designers, not the GM team) dislikes (mostly because it trips their algorithm) despite the fact it's using absolutely 100% legitimate game mechanics in absolutely normal and intended ways.
It's not botting, it's not a team security issue, and it's just being defined as one to avoid fixing the algorithm. |
Quaaid
EVE Pilot Help Center
95
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:07:00 -
[78] - Quote
I believe in the end they will own this as their problem, and not punish the end users for their shortcomings in presenting the content.
The implimentation of Diablo 3 taught the game development market a massive lesson, in that the player base will not accept the development team pushing their flaws back onto the player base in form of restriction.
CCP is generally very good at owning their problems. |
Gorn Arming
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
20
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:14:00 -
[79] - Quote
Sreegs' fancy algorithms have, after a tremendous effort by the security team, conclusively proven that PvE in EVE... sucks. |
Bubanni
ElitistOps Pandemic Legion
414
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:14:00 -
[80] - Quote
hmm I don't think getting popping out sentry drones and going afk (while these sentry drones shoot back at stuff that shoots at them or pilot) should be considered cheating... merely bad game design... the people who have been doing this were simply smart... because they were not using bots or scripts... and still earned afk money
Now what's the fix for this? banning the players for using ingame mechanics that are basicly not exploits? or making the mechanics not work anymore? (like sentry drones try to get back to ship after 1 hour or simply abandon themselves?... that would be a fix? if the player then uses a script to make this not happen... then you can ban them! Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
372
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:32:00 -
[81] - Quote
Herold Oldtimer wrote:No one should be [edit]rewarded[edit] for inactivity.
yeah then stop skilling when you're offline or afk! First think, then post, id*ot! |
Homo Jesus
The LGBT Last Supper
32
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:33:00 -
[82] - Quote
Herold Oldtimer wrote:No one should be [edit]rewarded[edit] for inactivity.
Yeah, I agree with you and I don't farm plexes but a program bot and a game design that looks like one aren't too different. Why should anyone be punished especially considering a good solid bump would kill most afkers in high sec. Doing this anywhere else takes some major balls truely afk.
As far as non-human like behavior I don't think anyone would be surprised to find out those afkers are just a duel boxed alt that really DOES play 23/7.....might I ask team scregs to spend a day or 2 bumping them like I suggested to see what the majority do? I know if I saw an afk printing machine in high sec I'd try the bump and scoop thing.
http://eve.battleclinic.com/loadout/44110-10-2-km-s-Bump-Stabber.html
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Suqq Madiq
Amarr Empire
291
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:40:00 -
[83] - Quote
EvilweaselSA wrote:I happen to know it was not: a person got tagged by the algorithm for doing this, petitioned, and got told to **** off even after he explained in detail how it worked and that no macros or the like were involved.
Bullshit. Stop pretending you know anything about anything. It makes you sound dumber than you are. |
Randomize All
State War Academy Caldari State
23
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:50:00 -
[84] - Quote
CCP Sreegs is not required to present any evidence, therefore CCP Sreegs is not required to gather any evidence. CCP Sreegs acts on behalf of unknown entities for purposes unknown. Internal Affairs is not a department that exists within CCP, it is merely a publicity concept of no real life merit and therefore unable to do anything about him.
Occasionally Sreegs does have to answer for his actions though. It's happened before, it'll happen again. Try to remember it when he's lying about you on the forums while everybody is running around believing him. |
Caldari Acolyte
Naari LLC
28
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Posted - 2012.08.09 15:54:00 -
[85] - Quote
Good Grief! I'll never set foot in a domi or use drones ever again ambiguous game rules are best rules |
Blawrf McTaggart
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
1385
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Posted - 2012.08.09 16:09:00 -
[86] - Quote
"hey guys we don't get false positives it's not possible" well maybe that's because you keep expanding the goalposts that define as to what is against the rules. |
Caldari Acolyte
Naari LLC
28
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Posted - 2012.08.09 16:14:00 -
[87] - Quote
Seriously does this mean i must put a pail by my desk to pee in, i need a ruling on this from CCP Sreegs, waiting for your reply, sincerely, caldari acolyte. |
Ghazu
20
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Posted - 2012.08.09 16:26:00 -
[88] - Quote
I googled Lazytown.... |
Ditra Vorthran
State War Academy Caldari State
97
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Posted - 2012.08.09 16:59:00 -
[89] - Quote
Doesn't this go against the whole purpose of the Retriever/Mackinaw?
Does this mean that their going to make mining more interesting? *crosses fingers* "Miners mine so I don't have to." ~Metal Icarus |
Cutter Isaacson
Quantum Reality R n D Internet Guardians
862
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Posted - 2012.08.09 17:18:00 -
[90] - Quote
I am stunned by the amount of stupid in this and the other whine threads. Do any of you even bother to read things properly? If not I have a bridge to sell.
What Sreegs is saying is that the twerps perma-camping complexes and what not, the ones that re-spawn all day long, will now be expected to actually stay at their computers for at least some of the time. If someone is sitting 7 days a week 23.5 hours a day in a complex and never moving, then they are breaking the rules. It really is quite simple.
This ruling will have zero effect on miners as you still need to activate the lasers/strips and you still need to empty the holds, so please for the sake of everyone else's sanity, quit whining, get some basic literacy skills and stop whining. Numbers of terminally stupid people seem to be on the increase, I suggest we have a real life Stupidageddon to rectify this issue. |
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