Originally by: Windjammer

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I guess IÆm a bitter old vetàààà.by some definitions. IÆm not happy about removal of the Learning Skills. I guess some people would call that being bitter. IÆve played EVE for four years and I suppose that some people would consider me a vet. I donÆt think IÆm bitter and I donÆt necessarily believe IÆm a vet, but I donÆt see why I should be happy about Learning Skills being removed.

As someone who has maxed all 11 of the learning skills IÆve enjoyed an advantage over those who wouldnÆt commit themselves. IÆm about to lose that. Five million three hundred seventy six thousand (5,376,000) skill points is not going to make up for that.

I spent isk on those training skills and I will not be reimbursed for it. CCP says they donÆt want to because that would inject 16 trillion isk into the economy. Bull plop. By my calculations the very worst theyÆd inject is 7.5 trillion and thatÆs only if 300,000 subscribers had trained all 11 skills. Sure itÆs not much by my standards these days, but itÆs still mine and IÆd like it back and the way EVEÆs economy works it would not have the dramatic effect that CCP suggests it would.

I trained the Learning Skills without some special beginning bonus. No 1.6 times or double speed or whatever the cerebral acceleration bonus is if you buy a Commissioned Officers box set. I did it because CCP led me to believe that if I did, IÆd have the reward of the advantage of a faster training time forever. Why else would anyone train those skills?

It never occurred to me to complain about how long it takes to train things in EVE, be it Learning Skills or high end capital ships skills or whatever else. I understood that this is what people who came before me had to do to get their advantage and it seemed more than fair that I would have to do the same. So I did it without complaint. Another way of putting would be to say I HTFUed and got the job done.

-Loss of advantage.
-Loss of my isk.
-Slower training time than the first 30 days of some newb coming into the game.

Want to tell me again why I should be happy about it and not express my displeasure? Want to tell me about how IÆm the one whoÆs a whiner? It wasnÆt even the whining of beginners that caused this change. It was the whining of corporations who have such a high rate of turnover that the only chance they have of having large numbers is if those numbers are comprised of beginners and of course they want those beginners to have fast training.

If I were convinced that this change would increase the numbers of active players in EVE, IÆd be all for it. It wonÆt.

-Windjammer

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Originally by: Rhaegar Thrax (Post 299 of this thread)

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Well reasoned, polite, thoughtful and well worded post.

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Originally by: Haniblecter Teg (Post 301 of this thread)

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OP is an idiot.


All that time he invested in maxing his learning skills hasnt even paid off yet, and wouldnt, ever.

CCP just saved this OP from making investments in time that would never come about (try to find enough skills in charisma or willpower to train) and yet this 'bitter old vet' (2007, luls) keeps complaining.


Losing learning skill is the second greatest thing CCP has ever done, reimbursing them is the #1.

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Originally by: Riedle

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At first I was happy about the learning skills being removed because it was going to make EVE a better game.

Now I'm just happy that the removal ****es this moron off.

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Originally by: Windjammer

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Originally by: Riedle

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At first I was happy about the learning skills being removed because it was going to make EVE a better game.

Now I'm just happy that the removal ****es this moron off.

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Pot calling the mirror black. The mentality of this post speaks for itself.

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Originally by: Windjammer

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Originally by: Riedle

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At first I was happy about the learning skills being removed because it was going to make EVE a better game.

Now I'm just happy that the removal ****es this moron off.

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Pot calling the mirror black. The mentality of this post speaks for itself.

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Originally by: Windjammer

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Originally by: Rhaegar Thrax (Post 299 of this thread)

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Well reasoned, polite, thoughtful and well worded post.

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One of the best posts in this thread from the anti Learning Skill faction. The only thing left to say to you is we have a difference of opinion and thatÆs what makes horse racing. Some of your conclusions are wrong, but since weÆre headed for Learning Skill removal weÆll be able to see that in the not too distant future. IÆd love to be proven wrong in that future.

Best regards,
Windjammer

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Originally by: Forum Guy (Post 271 of this thread)

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Edit 2: Added this as an edit because I refuse to post anymore in your thread. It seems to me you are only trying to increase the posts in your thread you have no real interest in what you are talking about so basically a troll. Not a bad troll but still a troll. You also seem to be desperately trying to keep the posts going which is part of why I've come to this conclusion.

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Originally by: Forum Guy (Post 311 of this thread)

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Come on guys, wake up to this guy.

He's just trolling you.

Look at his posts over the last couple of pages.

He'll post, no one bites. So he'll post again, if no one bites this time then he'll post again.

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Originally by: Hecatonis

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man you complain a lot windjammer

ok here is the brake down,

because you trained all skills to lvl 5 you gained about 2,522,880 extra skill points over the last 4 years (assuming learning skills never came into effect and we had the proposed changes from the start)

but with the full reimbursement coming you are getting back 3,160,000 extra then most people (assuming they trained 5/4 or the effective new stat boost coming in a week)

this gives you a 5,682,980 sp head start on all those people, even wiht the loss in skill points you will be hit with it will take 5 years to make the difference up between your extra lvl 5 skills and the loss 3,160,000sp/72sp/hr. its 9 year advantage if you account for the extra 4 years of faster then most SP.

what are you complaining about? you plan on having this char, for the next 9 years? if the answer is no, you still have your advantage.

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Originally by: Shintai

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Edited by: Shintai on 06/12/2010 10:47:28
Personally I have all learning skills maxed. My char is from may 2003. And I have gained alot of "extra" to go that way.

I remember when people talked about the learning skill alone. And it was 2 years to get even, what a waste you picked there!!! Yet 7+ years later we are still here.

For me I just think meh for the removal. Its certainly not something I will whine about. neither the small cash used for the great benefit. I basicly gained 7+ years faster training and still getting all the SPs back for a relatively small isk fee.

I can see good and bad sides with it. Its just 1 option less for us to consider when playing. You can say dumbed down. But on the other hand we got new things to choose from that is smarting up.

So again. I dont really mind.

And I assume Windjammer is a posting alt for someone else. Thats weak. Too scared? Kinda funny in a tragic way when people need to double hide their identity. Due to the way they act.

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Originally by: Reteris

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I've got 6+ years here (will be 7 years in a few months) and I first felt the way you do Windjammer. I don't have all my learning skills maxed but I do have several of them done.

However, I took a step back, cleared my head and tried to find a way to apply it to a real world case. I'm a big RP player (Role-play) and I prefer a realism that matches the real world metrics.

As I thought more on it, I said ok, it's like a new generation of teaching. 300 years ago they had to learn how to do things like herd cattle and ride horses, but today it's marketing, physics and driving a car. And since the "Learning" skills in EVE are injected into your brain by your neural interface perhaps that now comes standard when you are being fitted for neural link up (like how cars used to be manual but not automatic is standard).

It's like buying a computer with either Windows or MacOS on it. Eventually, new versions will come out and old ones will no longer be supported (Windows 98SE no longer receives any new security updates even though there are a ton of people still using it). You spent $300 on that operating system only to have it not longer supported years later. Microsoft doesn't give you money back for it, they just say, get the newest OS and thats that.

As the EVE universe progresses, so will the newer generations progress in ways we didn't. Have things we didn't. Eventually my children will be asking me what a computer keyboard was used for and think I'm old because I didn't "talk" to my computer to get things done. I had to use a keyboard and mouse. It's really no different then this.

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Originally by: Windjammer

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Not a bad post right up until the last paragraph. Do I strike you as someone who could be hurt by someone like you disparaging my character?

Yes, Windjammer is a forum alt. Obviously. I really donÆt care to spend the time to explain why he was created and is maintained. ItÆs obvious you wouldnÆt understand or care.

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Originally by: Telathe (Post 310 of this thread)

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Originally by: Windjammer

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Originally by: Riedle

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At first I was happy about the learning skills being removed because it was going to make EVE a better game.

Now I'm just happy that the removal ****es this moron off.

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Pot calling the mirror black. The mentality of this post speaks for itself.

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The line is "A Pot calling the kettle black." Get it right, its not like your completly ******ed, oh wait.
FYI, shut up or leave. If you dont want your game to change, go play solitare.

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Originally by: Windjammer

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Originally by: Forum Guy (Post 271 of this thread)

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Edit 2: Added this as an edit because I refuse to post anymore in your thread. It seems to me you are only trying to increase the posts in your thread you have no real interest in what you are talking about so basically a troll. Not a bad troll but still a troll. You also seem to be desperately trying to keep the posts going which is part of why I've come to this conclusion.

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Originally by: Forum Guy (Post 311 of this thread)

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Come on guys, wake up to this guy.

He's just trolling you.

Look at his posts over the last couple of pages.

He'll post, no one bites. So he'll post again, if no one bites this time then he'll post again.

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Lets seeàààinability to follow through on what he says heÆs going to do (or in this case what he says heÆs not going to do), low reading comprehension, poor analytical skills, penchant for excessive bold lettering in his posts and continues to add to a thread he asserts is a troll thread nobody should be posting in. ThatÆs quite a package. Unfortunately, the evidence indicates heÆll never understand what it means.

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Originally by: Zaratustra

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So Windjammer,

I'll I'm seeing is you completely disregarding everyone's opinions that don't match yours. I saw one with good calculations that say you have a 9 year advantage in skill points. I saw another correlating the Operating Systems of a computer to this situation which matches perfectly.

All I've seen you do is go "nope, nope, nope. I'm still right"

Well, I personally don't think you should be happy with them. Your elitist mentality is crashing around you, and you no longer have the 11 skills you need to feel superior in an internet spaceship game :D Your tears fuel my smile, and your rage is music to my sanctum running ass.

I'm enjoying the fact that you think your 11 skills, which a lot of other people have as well, makes you somehow better at this game. I'm enjoying your narrow-minded logic about how getting those extra points gives you Iwin buttons, when even a bunch of 1 month old characters can **** you with a smile with the right ships.

What I enjoy most of all, is the fact you think us convincing you that the change is good will change ANYTHING. The SP are still going to be refunded, your tears will continue to flow, and your 'advantage' will be gone and you'll be one of us commoners.

Welcome to the suck, enjoy your stay :D

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Originally by: Forum Guy

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Originally by: Windjammer

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Originally by: Forum Guy (Post 271 of this thread)

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Edit 2: Added this as an edit because I refuse to post anymore in your thread. It seems to me you are only trying to increase the posts in your thread you have no real interest in what you are talking about so basically a troll. Not a bad troll but still a troll. You also seem to be desperately trying to keep the posts going which is part of why I've come to this conclusion.

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Originally by: Forum Guy (Post 311 of this thread)

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Come on guys, wake up to this guy.

He's just trolling you.

Look at his posts over the last couple of pages.

He'll post, no one bites. So he'll post again, if no one bites this time then he'll post again.

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Lets seeàààinability to follow through on what he says heÆs going to do (or in this case what he says heÆs not going to do), low reading comprehension, poor analytical skills, penchant for excessive bold lettering in his posts and continues to add to a thread he asserts is a troll thread nobody should be posting in. ThatÆs quite a package. Unfortunately, the evidence indicates heÆll never understand what it means.

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Ok Windjammer, I know you worded this post to bait me. Which frankly I really could not careless about.

I did issue a warning to those who are still being taken in by you, which is why it was in bold.

And yes you are a troll the worst type the manipulative type.

So anyway carry on trolling, if people want to be taken in by you then that's up to them.

So keep smiling!

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Originally by: Windjammer

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Originally by: Shintai

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Edited by: Shintai on 06/12/2010 10:47:28
Personally I have all learning skills maxed. My char is from may 2003. And I have gained alot of "extra" to go that way.

I remember when people talked about the learning skill alone. And it was 2 years to get even, what a waste you picked there!!! Yet 7+ years later we are still here.

For me I just think meh for the removal. Its certainly not something I will whine about. neither the small cash used for the great benefit. I basicly gained 7+ years faster training and still getting all the SPs back for a relatively small isk fee.

I can see good and bad sides with it. Its just 1 option less for us to consider when playing. You can say dumbed down. But on the other hand we got new things to choose from that is smarting up.

So again. I dont really mind.

And I assume Windjammer is a posting alt for someone else. Thats weak. Too scared? Kinda funny in a tragic way when people need to double hide their identity. Due to the way they act.

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Not a bad post right up until the last paragraph. Do I strike you as someone who could be hurt by someone like you disparaging my character?

Yes, Windjammer is a forum alt. Obviously. I really donÆt care to spend the time to explain why he was created and is maintained. ItÆs obvious you wouldnÆt understand or care.

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Originally by: Shintai

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Edited by: Shintai on 06/12/2010 22:25:54

Originally by: Windjammer

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Originally by: Shintai

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Edited by: Shintai on 06/12/2010 10:47:28
Personally I have all learning skills maxed. My char is from may 2003. And I have gained alot of "extra" to go that way.

I remember when people talked about the learning skill alone. And it was 2 years to get even, what a waste you picked there!!! Yet 7+ years later we are still here.

For me I just think meh for the removal. Its certainly not something I will whine about. neither the small cash used for the great benefit. I basicly gained 7+ years faster training and still getting all the SPs back for a relatively small isk fee.

I can see good and bad sides with it. Its just 1 option less for us to consider when playing. You can say dumbed down. But on the other hand we got new things to choose from that is smarting up.

So again. I dont really mind.

And I assume Windjammer is a posting alt for someone else. Thats weak. Too scared? Kinda funny in a tragic way when people need to double hide their identity. Due to the way they act.

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Not a bad post right up until the last paragraph. Do I strike you as someone who could be hurt by someone like you disparaging my character?

Yes, Windjammer is a forum alt. Obviously. I really donÆt care to spend the time to explain why he was created and is maintained. ItÆs obvious you wouldnÆt understand or care.

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All I read from you is hot words from a guy hiding. It only makes me like this learning changes. Your biatching makes people think the opposite of you. Unless thats the desired effect.

Ofcourse its an alt from you. You know people would **** you over ingame if you didnt. Simply due to the **** you post. And yes your are trolling, flaming etc etc.

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