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bryanbc
Gallente Abyssal Heavy Industries SRS.
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Posted - 2010.12.03 03:44:00 -
[31]
1bill and 20 isk
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Clown Pron
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Posted - 2010.12.03 03:48:00 -
[32]
17million
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lolyou
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Posted - 2010.12.03 04:01:00 -
[33]
1.2b to buy you character. Self destruct his pod in Jita and biomass him. lol@u |
Jenny Jihad
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
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Posted - 2010.12.03 04:59:00 -
[34]
Might as well give the people a show Dethmourne.
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Hittings
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.03 05:21:00 -
[35]
So there is nothing wrong with actually selling your characters to clear debt....
so
IRL that would be like lets just sell the wife to clear the debt.... lets sell the kid...
I've been unsuccessful so take the character...
I'm sorry I just don't buy that stance. I believe if you do that your basically removing yourself as a trustworthy individual. Same reason people don't get jobs because they have terrible credit scores these days... it all matters...
Just my opinion.
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Mme Pinkerton
United Engineering Services
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Posted - 2010.12.03 07:07:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Mme Pinkerton on 03/12/2010 07:07:22
Originally by: Hittings So there is nothing wrong with actually selling your characters to clear debt....
so
IRL that would be like lets just sell the wife to clear the debt.... lets sell the kid...
I've been unsuccessful so take the character...
I'm sorry I just don't buy that stance. I believe if you do that your basically removing yourself as a trustworthy individual. Same reason people don't get jobs because they have terrible credit scores these days... it all matters...
Just my opinion.
you bought your wife for cash on the character bazaar?
A character is just another piece of capital in EVE, same as a blueprint collection, a freighter, ... as such having a high SP character (and signaling the willingness to sell it if necessary) should improve your credit rating.
Things were a bit different when selling a character had to involve a fee paid with RL cash to CCP (so people were imo too hesitant to ask defaulting borrowers to sell their character(s) to pay off the debt) but with the option to use PLEX for the transfer I see no reason to treat characters any different from any other peice of equipment you might have on your account.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2010.12.03 07:32:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Mme Pinkerton
A character is just another piece of capital in EVE, same as a blueprint collection, a freighter, ... as such having a high SP character (and signaling the willingness to sell it if necessary) should improve your credit rating.
Things were a bit different when selling a character had to involve a fee paid with RL cash to CCP (so people were imo too hesitant to ask defaulting borrowers to sell their character(s) to pay off the debt) but with the option to use PLEX for the transfer I see no reason to treat characters any different from any other peice of equipment you might have on your account.
This.
I've always treated my characters as assets, albeit very illiquid ones, and have always counted their value in my NAV. Partly this is down to buying my third and fourth characters with the money I raised for my first bond and not wanting to suddenly lose 6bil from my balance sheet but I don't see any reason why it shouldn't also apply to mains. Characters are assets and have values. They are not people, although they may be part of a perceived identity.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.12.03 10:53:00 -
[38]
Quote:
A character is (again, in my own humble opinion) just an asset and "banning" people from activity in MD because they essentially relinquished that asset to pay back their investors and therefore remain in good odor with the community is - at least to me - an amazingly petty stance and not a little bit stupid at first glance.
Quote:
A character is just another piece of capital in EVE, same as a blueprint collection, a freighter
I don't share the same opinion.
Selling a character is not the same as selling THE character, THE brand of yourself.
Sure, an alt is an asset blah blah but the signature character and face is:
- Mere asset value
- Brand plusvalence
- Credibility plusvalence
- Proven ability to earn income tied to a face
The last 3 factors have an intangible but high value.
Ignoring them is quite of a self hating approach. Sure, the immediate result is to close a debt, but the credibility going up? Not at all, it's like selling your own forniture, you don't do it unless you put yourself in really dire waters. This cannot happen in EvE unless you really borked something epic and investors will recall.
Just imagine in a year Dethmourne decides to start a bond as faceless alt. They are prolly going to demand him an audit, and what would an auditor have to say about someone who sold his pants to close his debts, in a game where's HARD to be bankrupt?
Quote:
They are not people, although they may be part of a perceived identity.
Exactly. If he wants to sell his main he parts with his identity, not just an asset.
- Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Alain Kinsella
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.03 12:09:00 -
[39]
As someone who (normally) prefers to link my RL identity to my virtual ones (a throwback to my Uru/SL days), there is no way I could place a value on my Eve characters (at least the primary one anyway).
That said, the points (both for and against) are pretty valid. In short it's going to depend on what you really want to do several months/years from now. [I work with backups, so I tend to think on those timescales.]
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Hittings
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.03 13:55:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Hittings on 03/12/2010 13:57:47 I just completely disagree. Infact I find that because this thread was made, he is less likely to be successful in the short term on MD. Who wants to take loans out from the guy whom is claiming he's losing money....
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Taram Caldar
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression
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Posted - 2010.12.03 14:04:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Taram Caldar on 03/12/2010 14:05:02 Just me... but there's no way in hell I'd ever sell Taram. I'm of like mind to VV on this one. If a pilot has to sell their main to get out of debt it absolutely has an impact on my perception of them as a player. Yes, they'll be reliable about paying off debt but the fact that they can't be profitable without giving up *everything* just to get out of debt will jade me against any future offering by them in future.
It's not that I wouldn't trust them. It's that I wouldn't believe they could be profitable.
Originally by: Hittings Edited by: Hittings on 03/12/2010 13:57:47 I just completely disagree. Infact I find that because this thread was made, he is less likely to be successful in the short term on MD. Who wants to take loans out from the guy whom is claiming he's losing money....
Exactly... ironically his savings & loan thread is like 5 posts down from this one right now.
Market Alerts Mailing List
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Machete Visor
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Posted - 2010.12.03 14:34:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: Machete Visor frankly speaking, i am wondering why you would need to do that.
I can cover all my debts with ISK on hand + inventory so it is just a matter of time for the inventory to sell.
I would think your trading would let you do the same unless some of the money has gone to (a) other character purchases, (b) recreational items that have been destroyed or (c) lost in other investment schemes.
Hard to believe if you took at 5B loan and did station trading you would ever have less than 5B readily at hand.
He started a loan business, and really hasn't made many loans. He has been paying interest on the money he borrowed.
no way that his X% interest rate has eaten into his cash balance from raising the loan. That is absurd. 5% of 5B is what, 250M a month... it would take months before he'd be in cash flow trouble.
He must've taken some of the ISK and lost it through other ways (flying shiny new ships, making bad loans, etc)
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Apollo Russ
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Posted - 2010.12.03 14:50:00 -
[43]
I myself beleive he lost his isk through SOMER.blink as he did often play it. In my opinion I think it is fine to sell a toon to pay a debt off. Before you make a thread to sell him make sure you use your MD face to post who your new main is.
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Somerset Mahm
Somer's Omnibus Exploration and Reclamation Cognitive Development
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Posted - 2010.12.03 15:19:00 -
[44]
I wouldn't normally comment on Blink players' deposit habits, but I think I can make an exception this time.
Deposit history for: Dethmourne Silvermane ISK deposited: 10,000,000 ISK Achievements: 39,000,000 ISK Complete. The man only plays trivia buttons to get his free ISK to play Blink with :P He's put in a total of 10M of his own ISK. --- SOMER Lotteries SOMER Blink - new! SOMER Escrow Services |
Xaviar Onassis
Gulfonodi Bay Fishing Club
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Posted - 2010.12.03 17:00:00 -
[45]
How big are the debts, and under what terms?
You'd possibly find that you'd have an easier time transferring to a new lender with your 50m sp intact, rather than selling up everything and have to start again from scratch...
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Hittings
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.03 17:06:00 -
[46]
I think an audit might be in order. I doubt his profability. But in the end... its a loan...items for loan value... depends on if your giving collateral at 125% or 100%. 100% i wouldnt' care so much...
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Jenny Jihad
Minmatar Republic Military Skool
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Posted - 2010.12.03 18:23:00 -
[47]
So although I haven't been paying to much attention to Dethmourne but I believe... The summary so far is:
A stagnate savings and loan business along with a stupid amount of debt.. an isk infusion which is now gone . Bad businees decision coupled by a poor understanding of the game... (see so many noctis bpo's)... Looks like someone caught the MD bug and fancied themself a business man only to fail miserably and admit defeat in a semi-accidental posting in a shockingly humiliating manner, the thread of which turning into an auction for his character. With the highest bid at 1.2b .... to biomass him .
Please correct me if I'm wrong.
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Amarr Citizen 155
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2010.12.03 20:33:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Amarr Citizen 155 on 03/12/2010 20:37:44 Bah, it doesn't really matter whether he sells his main or not. You'll still be able to smell him from a mile away regardless of what character he's using!
Seriously though, and no offense to you Deth, but is the Dethmourne Silvermane brand worth so much that it would really be a bad idea to sell it? If the answer is yes, then don't sell it. If the answer is no, then it's just another asset and if the price is right then you should move it.
Edit: And holy **** Jenny, take your hand off the Smilies button.
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lolyou
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Posted - 2010.12.03 23:05:00 -
[49]
23:04 3/12 bump lol@u |
Compound Arbitrage
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Posted - 2010.12.03 23:10:00 -
[50]
Ebank could learn a thing or two from this thread!
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Cobalt Sixty
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2010.12.04 03:06:00 -
[51]
Well Vaerah, I guess we should perhaps agree to disagree. I suppose my perspective comes from the wider view that not all characters have a "brand" attached to them by their creator - though even in those instances where a brand may be said to exist I still consider that to be just a modifier to overall value of the asset (character).
However,
Quote: Ignoring them is quite of a self hating approach.
As I've suggested, I see "brand", "credibility" and "proven ability" as just price modifiers - albeit ones which are generally quite difficult to quantify (in any way other than an arbitrary way) when setting a price.
At the same time, these modifiers can be influenced by (for example) advanced disclosure of the sale to people who interact in-game with the character. Still difficult to quantify, as I've said.
I don't think that the modifiers should be ignored, because quite obviously they can affect value and ignoring them could in turn risk reducing value if you don't figure them into the price - where they exist, that is.
At the same time, I think that saying the act of ignoring them is "self hating" is just as silly as the act of ignoring them. If I undervalue an asset, I don't do it because I hate looking at myself in the mirror every morning. I do it because I was negligent in my practices as an assayer.
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Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Swift Redemption
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Posted - 2010.12.05 00:59:00 -
[52]
I'm intrigued that this appeared to signal that I'd lost my pants on a deal; this is not the case.
I just really hate station trading and yes, I did lose some value on a few ships; however, the responses I've gotten have urged me to make some money doing things i dislike, if only to spite my detractors.
Investors: Expect an update on my financials sometime soon
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Hittings
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.05 01:09:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Dethmourne Silvermane I'm intrigued that this appeared to signal that I'd lost my pants on a deal; this is not the case.
I just really hate station trading and yes, I did lose some value on a few ships; however, the responses I've gotten have urged me to make some money doing things i dislike, if only to spite my detractors.
Investors: Expect an update on my financials sometime soon
Really only one question for you.
Have you ever taken a loan in order to fill loan orders/agreements? Can't fix stupid. |
Dethmourne Silvermane
Gallente Swift Redemption
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Posted - 2010.12.05 02:15:00 -
[54]
I'm not quite sure what you mean based on the phrasing, but since I assume you either mean taken a loan to offer a loan or taken a loan to pay back a loan, the answer is probably yes (as I've done both of these things, and the latter at least has been well-documented on this forum).
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Cesar Menage
MenageTech
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Posted - 2010.12.05 02:31:00 -
[55]
do what ever you need to do. Char are assets. I done a lot of char selling in my time when it was good isk.
aslong u doc everything on forums you dont lose your trust. Had to drop my 0.02 ISK in. We sell anything that we can make a buck on |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.12.05 09:12:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 05/12/2010 09:15:10
Quote:
I just really hate station trading and yes, I did lose some value on a few ships; however, the responses I've gotten have urged me to make some money doing things i dislike, if only to spite my detractors
My response has been to urge you to make money but it was not off a detractor. Having seen this same scenario happen with other friends of mine for years, I'd prefer to see you not to waste your investment and then have no way back later.
React now, don't regret latter.
Edit: Furthermore forcing you doing things you don't like is EvE's way to impose a loss for those who get their ships asploded. If you want to pew pew and plan to lose i.e. a battleship a day, you have to make an economic machine for you that produces a battleship worth of plusvalence for you, every day. - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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