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Are these staggered releases setting a new, unwelcome precedent?

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Genital Necrosis	Posted - 2010.12.02 12:59:00 - [1] Here's a concern I have, CCP has thrown us the very bare bones of Incursion just to slap on the "Incursion" log in screen and to say it was released on schedule, pushing the meat of the content back 2 months. A long over-due ship, some number tweaking and some minor changes to the market do not constitute an expansion to me, it isn't even a "stage" of release, I have seen more content introduced in a patch. Does this mean that the body of my summer expansion will get pushed back 2 months as well? What about winter 2011? 1.5 expansions a year is a big step down from 2 and I hope that this is not considered "Okay" by our beloved dev-team.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2010.12.02 13:01:00 - [2] Edited by: Crumplecorn on 02/12/2010 13:05:20 Yes, let's go back to getting it released on time but unfinished, with a promise to fix it 'eventually'. inb4 incursion is unfinished despite being late - I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes
Rhaegar Thrax Gallente Militaris Industries Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.12.02 13:04:00 - [3] Originally by: Genital Necrosis Here's a concern I have, CCP has thrown us the very bare bones of Incursion just to slap on the "Incursion" log in screen and to say it was released on schedule, pushing the meat of the content back 2 months. A long over-due ship, some number tweaking and some minor changes to the market do not constitute an expansion to me, it isn't even a "stage" of release, I have seen more content introduced in a patch. Does this mean that the body of my summer expansion will get pushed back 2 months as well? What about winter 2011? 1.5 expansions a year is a big step down from 2 and I hope that this is not considered "Okay" by our beloved dev-team. Dude, you need to calm down, sit, think on this a little, and try to understand how good a descision this has been on CCP's part. Would you rather have 2 sub-par expansions per year, than 1.5 well made, optimized expansions, where they've actually taken the needed time to get it done properly? Haven't you noticed all the features that needs more work to really shine? The treaties system is still missing from the Dominion expansion, FW still needs work, or so i hear.... This is a good thing.
Baastardo	Posted - 2010.12.02 13:06:00 - [4] LOL@OP You must be the kind of person who cant be happy unless he is miserable. While there are many things in Eve that I am unsatisfied with, i will grudgingly admit that this release was the best EVER. When was the last time a patch went in this smoothly/quickly and with so few repurcussions? Play the game more and worry about what-ifs less!
Caldariftw123	Posted - 2010.12.02 13:09:00 - [5] Originally by: Genital Necrosis Here's a concern I have, CCP has thrown us the very bare bones of Incursion just to slap on the "Incursion" log in screen and to say it was released on schedule, pushing the meat of the content back 2 months. A long over-due ship, some number tweaking and some minor changes to the market do not constitute an expansion to me, it isn't even a "stage" of release, I have seen more content introduced in a patch. Does this mean that the body of my summer expansion will get pushed back 2 months as well? What about winter 2011? 1.5 expansions a year is a big step down from 2 and I hope that this is not considered "Okay" by our beloved dev-team. They pushed the main content back because it wasn't ready yet. The recent first stage to incursion is something they hammered through rather quickly and with spare resources to provide a lot of content that the players, through the CSM, asked for. It's not just so they can say 'they released it on time!' because the alternative would be not releasing ANYTHING at this point, and waiting for the main content to be ready. So you can choose between getting a lot of cool changes now but with the main content later, or just getting the main content later? This was all clearly explained in their blog post.
Genital Necrosis	Posted - 2010.12.02 13:17:00 - [6] If Incursion is released spit-polished to perfection then sure, I will agree with you on that. However I think you are counting your chickens before they are hatched.
Alara IonStorm Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate	Posted - 2010.12.02 13:19:00 - [7] Edited by: Alara IonStorm on 02/12/2010 13:19:42 Originally by: Genital Necrosis If Incursion is released spit-polished to perfection then sure, I will agree with you on that. However I think you are counting your chickens before they are hatched. If Incursions is released with a dozen mistakes I would hate to see it released now with less bug fixes. -- I am now on a Crusade to Fix the Omen! For Great Justice!
Destination SkillQueue Are We There Yet	Posted - 2010.12.02 13:19:00 - [8] The issue really is that the feature set simply wasn't ready for launch. We tested it and it was really badly a WIP. The choice was to either deliver broken crap, deliver underwhelming/uninteresting crap or delay the release. They chose the best alternative from the ones they had available, since you know we usually have to live with the initial release product for years. I hope they choose the same thing, if and when they find themselves in similar situation in the future. New features aren't necessary to get in to the game on a rigid time table. The players already have a working game, so it is much more important that the new features work properly, are interesting to play and don't break the rest of the game. You are basicly complaining, that CCP shouldn't have called this stage in the expansion release an expansion. Would it have been any better if they had called it a patch or delayed it all until the january release? One means just a name change and the other means delaying needed improvements to the game for no good reason. Either way I'll take 1,5 meaty and working expansion a year over 2 expansions with broken or severely underwhelming features.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2010.12.02 13:25:00 - [9] You see all those long time user-requested features and fixes that magically appeared in the Incursion release plan a couple months ago? They were made by magic faeries and dropped on the doorsteps of CCP HQ by Clause Santa. That the dev team is late with Incursion and character creator is just them being lazy.
Derus Grobb Minmatar Selectus Pravus Lupus Transmission Lost	Posted - 2010.12.02 13:26:00 - [10] They should only release stuff WHEN IT IS READY. ---

Slade Trillgon Endless Possibilities Inc.	Posted - 2010.12.02 13:27:00 - [11] Originally by: Genital Necrosis If Incursion is released spit-polished to perfection then sure, I will agree with you on that. However I think you are counting your chickens before they are hatched. Well I'' b. We got two people her counting chickens before they hatch. The suspense it is killing me! Slade :Signature Temporarily Disabled:
Ifly Uwalk Caldari Empire Tax Collection Agency	Posted - 2010.12.02 13:30:00 - [12] I'd hate to see them go down to issuing only 1.5 new expansions a year. I'd like to see them release just 1. With the other big release of any given year being an honest-to-goodness, bug-fixin' patch.
Rhinanna Minmatar Volition Cult The Volition Cult	Posted - 2010.12.02 13:31:00 - [13] I'd much rather they released like this, that way if there are problems then they can roll-back or isolate the problem much easier and quicker than with one massive release. -The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it. Drenzul (My normal internet tag)
Jennifer Starling Amarr	Posted - 2010.12.02 13:39:00 - [14] Originally by: Caldariftw123 They pushed the main content back because it wasn't ready yet. The recent first stage to incursion is something they hammered through rather quickly and with spare resources to provide a lot of content that the players, through the CSM, asked for. It's not just so they can say 'they released it on time!' because the alternative would be not releasing ANYTHING at this point, and waiting for the main content to be ready. So you can choose between getting a lot of cool changes now but with the main content later, or just getting the main content later? This was all clearly explained in their blog post. Well in a way I can see the concern as we're officially already in the Incursion part of the game (see login screen) while we don't even have Incursions. It's a bit of a strange way of doing things.
hired goon	Posted - 2010.12.02 13:44:00 - [15] Actually it's not 1.5 expansions per year. If you add the half that's released in January, and the first half of the next expansion that's added in december of that year, it's still 2.
JeanBomberFromagePutain	Posted - 2010.12.02 13:54:00 - [16] What happened to each 6 months EXPANSION PACKS. We're getting half baked patches atm. Beer!
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.12.02 14:03:00 - [17] If staggered releases removes the pressure of "be ready by day X or we'll stick it in broken" I'm all for it. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Herping yourDerp	Posted - 2010.12.02 14:05:00 - [18] this feature is working as intended
Rhaegar Thrax Gallente Militaris Industries Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.12.02 14:23:00 - [19] Originally by: hired goon Actually it's not 1.5 expansions per year. If you add the half that's released in January, and the first half of the next expansion that's added in december of that year, it's still 2. Well, yeah, 1.5 was just a number I threw out there. Thinking they'd use 9 months or some such on each patch. But anyway, I really don't honestly care about the frequency of releases....what I'd care about more is that they of course be quick about it, but also that they take their time to finish the products. Simply take their time to commit to excellence. I think the 2 expansions per year promise is hampering their honest effort at making quality products, take back the promise, and just commit to excellence, in the form of REALLY making sure everything is working as intended, but don't be lazy about it! One thing that is on my wishlist is also, one year, one year where you absolutely work on no new shinies or features, just one year where you take your time to polish every nook and cranny in Eve, get everything fixed, running optimally. I'm not saying you should streamline teh player experience to something simliar to WoW (from what I've heard of it), but make sure we get quality tools for our sandbox instead of some of the crappy discount ones. You're doing a good job CCP, and I realize you need new shinies to attract and keep players, but just continue doing what you just did with this recent patch, commit to excellence! Commit to excellence over committing to deliver!
Wanpaku	Posted - 2010.12.02 14:28:00 - [20] I think some people complain just to complain. I for one am glad they are taking their time. Makes for better gameplay all around.

Nuniki Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.12.02 14:29:00 - [21] How can something that had no deadline be late? Riddle me this.
Rian O'Shea	Posted - 2010.12.02 14:38:00 - [22] Actually, I like it this way. "Feeding" changes and new code in batches, making sure it works and being able to pinpoint their effort would something be wrong. Rather than dumping it all in one go and having to wade through all the changes if something, inevitably, goes wrong. The fact that, so far, the expansion has been quite painless and not rage-inducing shows they're doing something right. --- The whole problem with the universe is that fools and fanatics are always certain of themselves, but wiser people are full of doubt.
Zaknussem Intrum Industria	Posted - 2010.12.02 15:51:00 - [23] You weren't here when Quantum Rise was released, were you? It was lauded as the "Industrial expansion", with a new industrial-oriented ship, minable comets, store-fronts, major changes planned to the whole mining process and various fixes to lag. What we ended up with was the Orca, the lag monster being snuffed out for a year and weapon grouping. Oh, and over 1000 various bugs fixed. (Sadly we haven't been informed how many bugs remained, but I'd guess they were thousands more.) Some content originally planned for QR was pushed back to Apocrypha for the sole purpose of making Apocrypha look better. Marketing sucks. Some content was pushed back and hasn't been added since. Par for the course for CCP. But the point I wanted to get across was that the lag-killing fixes were introduced a whole month before the expansion went live. And NOBODY complained (everybody were too busy raging over Ghost Training being removed.) That's a staggered release right there. (NOBODY does not apply to EVE-Forum trolls, who are not real persons and therefore don't count.) So... suck it up, 'cause it looks like they're here to stay.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.12.02 16:01:00 - [24] Originally by: Zaknussem What we ended up with was the Orca, the lag monster being snuffed out for a year and weapon grouping. Oh, and over 1000 various bugs fixed. (Sadly we haven't been informed how many bugs remained, but I'd guess they were thousands more.) Some content originally planned for QR was pushed back to Apocrypha for the sole purpose of making Apocrypha look better. àand even without the staggered release you're talking about, it could be argued that QR added about as much stuff as this Incursion 1/3 release did, and they called that a full-on expansion. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Nicholas Barker Diabolus Ex Machina The Amazing Onjoi and his Educated Rodents	Posted - 2010.12.02 16:07:00 - [25] All you guys saying we should be grateful that it's going to be a working expansion for a change. We're more trying to bring to light how stupid it was releasing a ship and some number changes, and calling it incursion just because you stuck the splash and login screens in with it. It just seems like they're mocking us or playing us for fools by doing it. Why didn't they just release that, not put the splash screen in with the patch, because that's what it is, a patch not an expansion. I don't mind when it's pushed back one or two months, great they're making sure it works and are getting it up to spec for a change. That way it won't be like the **** pile called PI that could have still been in development now and be fleshed out more into a proper feature with gameplay etc, since we're obviously not seeing DUST for a while still. ------ 0800-LAG-A-NODE
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2010.12.02 16:09:00 - [26] Originally by: Crumplecorn Edited by: Crumplecorn on 02/12/2010 13:05:20 Yes, let's go back to getting it released on time but unfinished, with a promise to fix it 'eventually'. inb4 incursion is unfinished despite being late I think this demands a few new signatures to celebrate with.
Death Severus	Posted - 2010.12.02 16:16:00 - [27] If it isn't done i don't want it shoved in my face. I for one am glad CCP pushed the expansion back. It shows they are maturing as a company. I would be happy if there was no more "here is the expansion we will fix it over the next 6 months....maybe." I would even be happy with one solid expansion a year instead of 2 half assed ones.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.12.02 16:16:00 - [28] Originally by: Nicholas Barker We're more trying to bring to light how stupid it was releasing a ship and some number changes, and calling it incursion just because you stuck the splash and login screens in with it. àand what everyone else is saying is: if it's ready and can be released separately, why not roll it out just because it's part of an expansion that won't be fully ready until later? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Florio Miniature Giant Space Hamsters	Posted - 2010.12.02 16:23:00 - [29] How can anyone get to the stage where this kind of thing bothers them?
Nicholas Barker Diabolus Ex Machina The Amazing Onjoi and his Educated Rodents	Posted - 2010.12.02 16:25:00 - [30] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Nicholas Barker We're more trying to bring to light how stupid it was releasing a ship and some number changes, and calling it incursion just because you stuck the splash and login screens in with it. àand what everyone else is saying is: if it's ready and can be released separately, why not roll it out just because it's part of an expansion that won't be fully ready until later? Because it's obviously not part of the expansion, salvaging is independent of sanshas invading, so is a rocket buff, and any lag reducing code changes. It's 20meg patch material. ------ 0800-LAG-A-NODE



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