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Eiskaltt	Posted - 2010.12.06 18:34:00 - [1] I presently have the skills to run a T1 Autocannon/Artillery boat, with a T2 shield tank and T2 weapon upgrades. Can it run L4s just as well as the other kings of pve? I was playing around in EFT and compared my supposed Mach fit to my current Raven fit, and it has about 1/2 the DPS. Not sure if this will equate to anything in game, but it's still there.
Mibad Sickle Moon	Posted - 2010.12.06 18:48:00 - [2] Every single fit for Mach uses Autocannons. You can get 1000 DPS Faction Fit. It can hit up to like 60k
Eiskaltt	Posted - 2010.12.06 18:57:00 - [3] hnnghhh.. ignore the DPS part of this thread. I forgot to put in my skills. my DPS just increased by 180%. With this kind of EFT tank/DPS, I figure I can solo L4 Missions. :P
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.12.06 19:03:00 - [4] Originally by: Eiskaltt hnnghhh.. ignore the DPS part of this thread. I forgot to put in my skills. my DPS just increased by 180%. With this kind of EFT tank/DPS, I figure I can solo L4 Missions. :P A well fitted Mach will do level 4s solo so easily that it's just not funny. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Cipher Jones Minmatar	Posted - 2010.12.06 19:07:00 - [5] Mach is king of level 4's hands down.
Zindela Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2010.12.06 20:21:00 - [6] Originally by: Cipher Jones Mach is king of level 4's hands down. QFT. My Mach is the fastest missioning ship I've used. Even when I still had Meta4 800s on it. It's even better with T2 800s ------------------- Originally by: CCP Oveur Guess what I'm wearing.
Culmen Caldari Blood Phage Syndicate	Posted - 2010.12.06 21:03:00 - [7] Edited by: Culmen on 06/12/2010 21:05:35 Originally by: Zindela Originally by: Cipher Jones Mach is king of level 4's hands down. QFT. Another Mach fan chiming in This is the setup I use. [Machariel, Mission mach] Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Republic Fleet Gyrostabilizer Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Tracking Enhancer II Caldari Navy X-Large Shield Booster Shield Boost Amplifier II Heavy Capacitor Booster II, Cap Booster 800 Caldari Navy Invulnerability Field Invulnerability Field II 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L 800mm Repeating Artillery II, EMP L Small Tractor Beam I Large Ionic Field Projector I Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II Large Projectile Metastasis Adjuster II Hobgoblin II x5 Ogre II x4 The tech II invul field gets replaced with a race specific hardener. Not that you need it with the sheer amount of gank this thing puts out, but I like to play it a little safer. The lock range rig is there because 77km is just too short considering thats almost your entire falloff range.. You really won't miss the shield HP, alot of times the X-large shield booster is just taking up space. With the rig in you get a much more respectable 94km, your guns are still doing substantial damage even at that range. Yes I realize that there are 5 things that improve tracking, but realize the tech II rigs are giving more then double the tracking bonus of the tracking enhancers. The tracking enhancers are there primarily for fall off anyway. These 800mm can swat even the closest orbiting cruisers, good for when you're holding at an acell gate rather then kiting. Tractor beam is there because...hey i had an extra slot, and I'm too lazy to fly over and grab the damsel. and further more why do i even need a sig?
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.12.06 21:17:00 - [8] Originally by: Eiskaltt kings of pve? mach IS a king, 4x gryos, 3x te, 4 slot shield tank, 100mn ab, 7x 800mm ac, utility high, t2 rof rig, and any other 50 calibration rig. 4x sentries + 5x lights in the drone bay.
Trebor Whettam	Posted - 2010.12.06 21:29:00 - [9] Edited by: Trebor Whettam on 06/12/2010 21:36:13 Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Eiskaltt kings of pve? mach IS a king, 4x gryos, 3x te, 4 slot shield tank, 100mn ab, 7x 800mm ac, utility high, t2 rof rig, and any other 50 calibration rig. 4x sentries + 5x lights in the drone bay. I don't buy it. There's no way that a Machariel nets more isk/hr than a Paladin munching on Armor Plates in Amarr space. The Paladin projects more dps over most of the usable range, has faction ammo that's just this side of free, and can loot / salvage the most profitable ships as it goes. Has anyone looked at the value of Armor Plates recently? There's a reason why trimarks cost a fortune. ETA: The Golem is also a sick ship in Amarr space (although some missions prefer a CNR/Tengu).
Scout1111	Posted - 2010.12.06 22:19:00 - [10] Originally by: Trebor Whettam Edited by: Trebor Whettam on 06/12/2010 21:36:13 Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Eiskaltt kings of pve? mach IS a king, 4x gryos, 3x te, 4 slot shield tank, 100mn ab, 7x 800mm ac, utility high, t2 rof rig, and any other 50 calibration rig. 4x sentries + 5x lights in the drone bay. I don't buy it. There's no way that a Machariel nets more isk/hr than a Paladin munching on Armor Plates in Amarr space. The Paladin projects more dps over most of the usable range, has faction ammo that's just this side of free, and can loot / salvage the most profitable ships as it goes. Has anyone looked at the value of Armor Plates recently? There's a reason why trimarks cost a fortune. ETA: The Golem is also a sick ship in Amarr space (although some missions prefer a CNR/Tengu). You forget that the Nightmare also contends heavily with the Paladin.
Amarrian Alt	Posted - 2010.12.06 22:51:00 - [11] mach: lows: 3-4x rf gyros (nanofiber/dcu whatever you fancy) 3xtracking enhancers II mids: rf ab x-l sb II 2x hardeners heavy cap booster II highs: 7x 800mm II tractorbeam rigs: proj burst II resist rig/nozzle joint (whatever you fancy) You could even remove 1-2 hardeners for certain missions and fit rf target painters instead and mop the floor with those pesky hacs. Did AE extra room recently to see if i could tank it. Always thought my tank would break instantly. Never imagined i could clear it that easily.
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.12.06 22:53:00 - [12] Its only me who fits mwd to mission macha?
Amarrian Alt	Posted - 2010.12.06 23:09:00 - [13] the moment ccp removes deadspace call me in, probably gonna buy a few hg snakes too. now i'm probably too lazy to switch 2 modules all the time. what missions don't have deadspace? uhm... blockade, i think. This juicy amarr mission where ships spawn constantly, maybe. Buzzkill? I think im the only guy who does that mission,
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.12.06 23:54:00 - [14] Originally by: Trebor Whettam I don't buy it. There's no way that a Machariel nets more isk/hr than a Paladin munching on Armor Plates in Amarr space. The Paladin projects more dps over most of the usable range, has faction ammo that's just this side of free, and can loot / salvage the most profitable ships as it goes. Has anyone looked at the value of Armor Plates recently? There's a reason why trimarks cost a fortune. Same here. I find that most of the time, people claiming Mach is king of PVE haven't properly skilled any of the alternatives for comparison. (The Mach is very easy to jump into compared to a Marauder, for example.) That, and occasionally people seem to think that having 1200 DPS and 70KM falloff means you do 1200 DPS at 70KM... All that said, I own a Mach and I like it. I just like the Vargur more, even in spite of having Min/Gal BS V. (Them plates are tasty.)
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2010.12.07 02:00:00 - [15] Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Its only me who fits mwd to mission macha? I carried a rather nice MWD around in cargo, but it never saw much use. Mind you I hardly ever touched my Mach's AB either. Well, my more or less maxed out NM pilot is in Marauders, but I'm still not convinced fitting out a Pally/Golem pair is really going to be worth it.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.12.07 02:21:00 - [16] Originally by: Trebor Whettam Edited by: Trebor Whettam on 06/12/2010 21:36:13 Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton mach IS a king I don't buy it. There's no way that a Machariel nets more isk/hr than a Paladin munching on Armor Plates in Amarr space. The Paladin projects more dps over most of the usable range, has faction ammo that's just this side of free, and can loot / salvage the most profitable ships as it goes. Has anyone looked at the value of Armor Plates recently? There's a reason why trimarks cost a fortune. ETA: The Golem is also a sick ship in Amarr space (although some missions prefer a CNR/Tengu). I did say "a king" paladin would also get that title. love my paladin for em/therm missions (there are a few missions where I'd rather just blitz in the nightmare, but details...)
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.12.07 02:24:00 - [17] Originally by: Seriously Bored Originally by: Trebor Whettam I don't buy it. There's no way that a Machariel nets more isk/hr than a Paladin munching on Armor Plates in Amarr space. The Paladin projects more dps over most of the usable range, has faction ammo that's just this side of free, and can loot / salvage the most profitable ships as it goes. Has anyone looked at the value of Armor Plates recently? There's a reason why trimarks cost a fortune. Same here. I find that most of the time, people claiming Mach is king of PVE haven't properly skilled any of the alternatives for comparison. (The Mach is very easy to jump into compared to a Marauder, for example.) That, and occasionally people seem to think that having 1200 DPS and 70KM falloff means you do 1200 DPS at 70KM... All that said, I own a Mach and I like it. I just like the Vargur more, even in spite of having Min/Gal BS V. (Them plates are tasty.) and yea angels drop a lot of armor plates too, varg is a very nice ship
Trebor Whettam	Posted - 2010.12.07 03:53:00 - [18] My appologies Chainsaw; I meant to quote Cipher Jones. The issue with the Mach is that there's not that much utility for a non-Marauder that projects so little dps beyond 60km. As for the claim that the Paladin can't be king because of the Nightmare, I simply disagree. There's no doubt that the Nightmare is the slightly faster mission ship, the the Paladin will out isk/hr it the vast majority of the time. Prior to the loot nerf, I think this was the nearly universal opinion. Then, people became convinced that looting salvaging was no longer worth the hassle. I contend that, given the inflated value of Armor Plates and their obscene drop rate in Amarr-space missions, it is absolutely worth the hassle. Incidentally, I'm not obsessed with the Paladin. I actually believe that the Golem is superior for many close range BR and Sansha missions. But, in the false but popular question of what's the single best hi-sec PvE ship, the Paladin would be my choice.
Sir Asterix	Posted - 2010.12.07 05:04:00 - [19] Why bother going for the expence of a Mach or any other faction battle ship? A T2 fitted Domi will do lvl 4 missions just as well for only about 200 mill isk!
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.12.07 05:09:00 - [20] Originally by: Sir Asterix Why bother going for the expence of a Mach or any other faction battle ship? A T2 fitted Domi will do lvl 4 missions just as well for only about 200 mill isk! no.... no it wont
Sir Asterix	Posted - 2010.12.07 05:40:00 - [21] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton Originally by: Sir Asterix Why bother going for the expence of a Mach or any other faction battle ship? A T2 fitted Domi will do lvl 4 missions just as well for only about 200 mill isk! no.... no it wont yes... yes it does. Perhaps your just doing it wrong?
Scout1111	Posted - 2010.12.07 05:47:00 - [22] Edited by: Scout1111 on 07/12/2010 05:49:23 If by "just as well", you mean it can COMPLETE missions, then it may do missions "just as well", but that does not mean it will do it with any kind of efficiency, speed, tank (okay maybe tank), or gank compared to a machariel.
Sir Asterix	Posted - 2010.12.07 05:59:00 - [23] Originally by: Scout1111 Edited by: Scout1111 on 07/12/2010 05:49:23 If by "just as well", you mean it can COMPLETE missions, then it may do missions "just as well", but that does not mean it will do it with any kind of efficiency, speed, tank (okay maybe tank), or gank compared to a machariel. Granted faction battle ships will destroy NPC's faster than my drones, but having said that are they really nessasery? Does the word "overkill" mean anything to you? I can complete any lvl 4 mission relatively quickly in a cheap and cheerful ship. All I'm trying to say is you don't need a billion ISK ship in order to do lvl 4 missions well.
Scout1111	Posted - 2010.12.07 06:06:00 - [24] Originally by: Sir Asterix Originally by: Scout1111 Edited by: Scout1111 on 07/12/2010 05:49:23 If by "just as well", you mean it can COMPLETE missions, then it may do missions "just as well", but that does not mean it will do it with any kind of efficiency, speed, tank (okay maybe tank), or gank compared to a machariel. Granted faction battle ships will destroy NPC's faster than my drones, but having said that are they really nessasery? Does the word "overkill" mean anything to you? I can complete any lvl 4 mission relatively quickly in a cheap and cheerful ship. All I'm trying to say is you don't need a billion ISK ship in order to do lvl 4 missions well. Well is good and all, but since you're earning money in the process, many players find it more than useful to use faction ships and gain a much better isk/hr. Especially if they're grinding large amount of missions, the reduced completion time really starts to stack up.
Eiskaltt	Posted - 2010.12.07 07:43:00 - [25] This talk of Vargur / Nightmare / Paladin is irrelevant to me.. you're talking about them for the salvage, right? I generally bring my noctis along into every mission that's not drones, either dual boxed or played by one of my buddies. :P I'm definitely gonna grab my Machariel and use it again.. Will be fun!
Evil Stare	Posted - 2010.12.07 13:46:00 - [26] Originally by: Sir Asterix Originally by: Scout1111 Edited by: Scout1111 on 07/12/2010 05:49:23 If by "just as well", you mean it can COMPLETE missions, then it may do missions "just as well", but that does not mean it will do it with any kind of efficiency, speed, tank (okay maybe tank), or gank compared to a machariel. Granted faction battle ships will destroy NPC's faster than my drones, but having said that are they really nessasery? Does the word "overkill" mean anything to you? I can complete any lvl 4 mission relatively quickly in a cheap and cheerful ship. All I'm trying to say is you don't need a billion ISK ship in order to do lvl 4 missions well. If you were a miner, would you rather mine in a Retreiver or a Hulk? I'd guess Hulk. Why? Because it's faster and you make more isk/hour. The same applies for lvl 4's. The upfront cost you pay now, will pay dividents in the long run.
Cthulhu Fhtagnn	Posted - 2010.12.08 10:30:00 - [27] Any opinions as to which ship is the absolute best (assuming optimal fit, optimal skills and a perfectly free choice of agents, so Nightmare can do Amarr missions, etc.) when it comes to pure blitzing (no looting/salvaging)? Machariel, Nightmare, the CNR, or do the marauders still hold their own? I just happen to hate the process of wreck liquidation (and the subsequent timesinks of actually processing and selling the stuff, which no one seems to count in when boasting with their isk/hr) to an extent where I'm willing to accept a degree of isk/hr loss in order to avoid it.
Zarbane	Posted - 2010.12.08 10:43:00 - [28] How does the Vargur compare to the Machariel in terms of grinding out fast missions?
Jayme Meladi	Posted - 2010.12.08 11:11:00 - [29] Edited by: Jayme Meladi on 08/12/2010 11:14:39 Originally by: Zarbane How does the Vargur compare to the Machariel in terms of grinding out fast missions? They really are quite similar to be honest. Machariel has slightly more DPS because of the 7 lows + 8.5 effective turrets Vargur has better tracking I find using a cap booster on a mach laughable. Spend some damn money on a booster and freaking put an afterburner on it. A mach without an afterburner is stunting its potential. Either way Vargur and Mach are very close. The primary target (Angels) drop tons of armor plates so Vargur typically makes up the loss in DPS with salvage.... @the strange guy trying to claim a Dominix does missions anywhere near as well as a well fit faction/marauder? Lol what? You spend 1-2bil isk on a mission ship because the modules don't go anywhere and you'll earn all that money back. The rate at which a Mach/Vargur/CNR/Paladin/Nightmare/Golem does missions compared to a Dominix is insane....the big kings of PvE probably run missions two to three times as quickly.
Von Kapiche Minmatar	Posted - 2010.12.08 21:31:00 - [30] Originally by: Zarbane How does the Vargur compare to the Machariel in terms of grinding out fast missions? Near enough to be effectively the same, unless it's a rare mission where the Mach's speed actually matters. Well actually it does make a difference because you can get into the optimal part of the damage envelope for pretty much every rat if you want, but if you compared the two to a Domi then they're effectively the same amount better. Think of the Mach as a BC the size of a BS. The choice is really if you're going to salvage or not.
Amarrian Alt	Posted - 2010.12.09 06:24:00 - [31] Edited by: Amarrian Alt on 09/12/2010 06:24:30 Originally by: Jayme Meladi I find using a cap booster on a mach laughable. Do you mission in systems over 0.8 ? Ever been to Emol? They'll blow you up 'just because'.
Aichi Awara	Posted - 2010.12.09 13:37:00 - [32] Anyone using mach with berserker 2x tp-900 and 2x berserker sw-900? Paint & web. 1500m/s and 2000m/s. When speeding around with ab heavies are a bit too slow (ogre II 840m/s) and there's really no advantage using medium/scout drones for one can one or two volley smaller ships...
Mr LaForge	Posted - 2010.12.09 14:20:00 - [33] Anyone here dual run machs on a mission? if so how fast do you get an AE done?
JackStraw56	Posted - 2010.12.09 18:07:00 - [34] Originally by: Amarrian Alt Edited by: Amarrian Alt on 09/12/2010 06:24:30 Originally by: Jayme Meladi I find using a cap booster on a mach laughable. Do you mission in systems over 0.8 ? Ever been to Emol? They'll blow you up 'just because'. And what does that have to with cap boosters? Resistance to ganks is all about buffer, concord will blow up the attackers before a shield booster or cap booster has a chance to make any difference.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.12.09 18:42:00 - [35] Originally by: Eiskaltt This talk of Vargur / Nightmare / Paladin is irrelevant to me.. you're talking about them for the salvage, right? I generally bring my noctis along into every mission that's not drones, either dual boxed or played by one of my buddies. :P I'm definitely gonna grab my Machariel and use it again.. Will be fun! is not. I'd rather throw a 2nd dps ship than a salvager in the mix, and if one of the dps ships can loot/salvage as it goes, well cool beans.
Amarrian Alt	Posted - 2010.12.09 19:57:00 - [36] Originally by: JackStraw56 ]And what does that have to with cap boosters? Resistance to ganks is all about buffer, concord will blow up the attackers before a shield booster or cap booster has a chance to make any difference. Yawn.
PhalanxPrime Caldari Stormtrooper School	Posted - 2010.12.09 20:46:00 - [37] what about tengu/nighthawk when compared to a mach? I do lvl4s in a tengu and I hardly see any reds on my shileds and I do decent damange too but I'm under the impression that it could go faster... I have to say that I do lvl4s faster in my tengu than nighthawk just because I spam missiles faster with the tengu.
PhalanxPrime Caldari Stormtrooper School	Posted - 2010.12.09 20:55:00 - [38] Originally by: PhalanxPrime what about tengu/nighthawk when compared to a mach? I do lvl4s in a tengu and I hardly see any reds on my shileds and I do decent damange too but I'm under the impression that it could go faster... I have to say that I do lvl4s faster in my tengu than nighthawk just because I spam missiles faster with the tengu. one last comment, with the tengu/nighthawk I can easily kill frigates so I don't have any issues with warp jammers and such since they always go first...1 to few volleys are they're out then hit the cruisers/bc/bs
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.12.09 21:16:00 - [39] Originally by: PhalanxPrime what about tengu/nighthawk when compared to a mach? I do lvl4s in a tengu and I hardly see any reds on my shileds and I do decent damange too but I'm under the impression that it could go faster... I have to say that I do lvl4s faster in my tengu than nighthawk just because I spam missiles faster with the tengu. The mach just has straight up more DPS. It will one-shot frigates out past 20Km or so, and any that get close, well, it has room for a flight of light drones so it can keep on applying those 900 DPS to the big ships while the light drones nom up the frigates. Also the Machariel is ridiculously fast for a battleship, so, like the Tengu, you can get a huge tanking bonus by putting an afterburner on it. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Jagga Spikes Minmatar Spikes Chop Shop	Posted - 2010.12.09 21:23:00 - [40] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: PhalanxPrime what about tengu/nighthawk when compared to a mach? ... The mach just has straight up more DPS. It will one-shot frigates out past 20Km or so, and any that get close, well, it has room for a flight of light drones so it can keep on applying those 900 DPS to the big ships while the light drones nom up the frigates. Also the Machariel is ridiculously fast for a battleship, so, like the Tengu, you can get a huge tanking bonus by putting an afterburner on it. this. it's quite fun to fly. feels like rifter in L1s :) ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel - [jedi handwave] "There is no spoon."
Moneyhungryhoe	Posted - 2010.12.09 22:54:00 - [41] Edited by: Moneyhungryhoe on 09/12/2010 23:00:09 Originally by: Mr LaForge Anyone here dual run machs on a mission? if so how fast do you get an AE done? Why would anyone sane want to dual run Machs on one mission as opposed 2 separate? One Mach does not murder stuff quick enough? Edit: Also, a point about marauders. Their salvagers/TP/tractor beams etc mean there's a lot of micromanagement involved and thus only suited for people with 1 account. For those with 2 accounts 2 Machariels will undoubtedly be better than any other 2 account setup at highsec l4s.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.12.09 23:01:00 - [42] Quote: I don't buy it. There's no way that a Machariel nets more isk/hr than a Paladin munching on Armor Plates in Amarr space. The Paladin projects more dps over most of the usable range Mach reign is Matar lands and somewhat Gallente (lots of angel missions given at the agent I am at ATM). Angels drop a bit less armor plates, a lot more alloyed trit bars and generally an excellent mix of loot. Angels tend to come very close so the "more dps over most of the usable range" is moot. The rare exceptions are some of the > 1M rats that try to kite, but those are easily countered by heading to them with AB on before they get a chance to go beyond 25km (i.e. easy). Quote: what missions don't have deadspace? uhm... blockade, i think More than you think, in fact since I got a dual prop Noctis I noticed that in the last patches CCP enabled a number of missions to MWD, even "high end" ones like Serp Extravaganza. Quote: Buzzkill? I think im the only guy who does that mission Buzzkill done with an AC BS (even a Mael will do) yields to some insane money per hour. Only one where I can easily do better is pirate invasion, if bounty tick is not 8M+ I am sleeping. Quote: That, and occasionally people seem to think that having 1200 DPS and 70KM falloff means you do 1200 DPS at 70KM... For 70km I use an arty Mael but fortunately those are rare. Quote: The issue with the Mach is that there's not that much utility for a non-Marauder that projects so little dps beyond 60km As for the claim that the Paladin can't be king because of the Nightmare, I simply disagree. You can reverse the statement as Well: The issue with the Paladin is that there's not that much utility for a Marauder that projects only a fixed type of damage. but that would be irrelevant... like yours. Paladin stays where its damage works and TA DA! Mach stays where rats are generally closer than 60km. Quote: Granted faction battle ships will destroy NPC's faster than my drones, but having said that are they really nessasery? It is, because I have about 1 hour before dinner to do 3 L4 missions, a Domi just won't do it, a Mael or Mach do and even let me salvage (since Noctis = insta loot & salvage for me so I resumed that). - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.12.10 05:01:00 - [43] Originally by: Moneyhungryhoe Edited by: Moneyhungryhoe on 09/12/2010 23:00:09 Originally by: Mr LaForge Anyone here dual run machs on a mission? if so how fast do you get an AE done? Why would anyone sane want to dual run Machs on one mission as opposed 2 separate? One Mach does not murder stuff quick enough? Edit: Also, a point about marauders. Their salvagers/TP/tractor beams etc mean there's a lot of micromanagement involved and thus only suited for people with 1 account. For those with 2 accounts 2 Machariels will undoubtedly be better than any other 2 account setup at highsec l4s. tbh I don't think I could focus well enough on 2 machs in separate missions to make it better than having them in one mission. on that note I think I just failed at eating dinner and flying a cnr.
Admiral Man'treb	Posted - 2010.12.10 07:28:00 - [44] Been reading the responses, i see people who fly the mach similar and others who do it differently, but certainly every setup has loads of dps I'm relatively new mach pilot but, like a few other pilots in here, i've taken advantage of the fastest BS in the game aspect of it. [Highs] 7x 800mm AC II's [Mids] 1x X-Large Pith B Shield Booster 1x Shield Boost Amp II 1x Invul II 1x Specific Hardener II 1x Deadspace AB [Lows] 3x TE II 4x RP Gyro's 2x CCC 1x Tech II Projectile Fall off rig (can't remember the name) 5x Light drones II (either hob or warriors) 4x Heavy drones II (ogre or berserker) <--I often find myself sending my drones to a target that is long dead before they get there >.> even with Drone Nav V Gotta say, in most missions I just target the biggest bounty BS and perma run the ab (default orbit is set at 30km), stays at about 570-590 m/s , although top speed is 601. Before my mach never had a AB on a mission BS, its quite nice ;) Would be interesting to hear how other mach pilots like me fly theirs, thinking about setting default orbit distance to 40km as the dps still seems really good out that far, maybe not, we'll see. In the rare occasion I get webbed the booster easily pulses enough to tank it till the little nasty is dead. Cap is good too so long as you manage it right :)
Malcanis Caldari Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.12.10 09:45:00 - [45] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: I don't buy it. There's no way that a Machariel nets more isk/hr than a Paladin munching on Armor Plates in Amarr space. The Paladin projects more dps over most of the usable range Mach reign is Matar lands and somewhat Gallente (lots of angel missions given at the agent I am at ATM). Why? The Mach is perfectly capable vs Bloods and Sansha, and it murders Serps as well as anything out there. Just a question of changing hardeners and ammo types. It's pretty useful vs Guristas as well, just that Guristas tend to hang at range and there's no Kinetic high damage ammo for projectiles. BTW 1200 DPS with 70Km falloff doesn't mean 1200 DPS at 70Km, as correctly pointed out, but it does mean that you're still doing over 1000DPS at 20Km, which is about the engagement range I sit at with my Mach. Dont forget that the Mach is very mobile, and can control range is a way that a Golem or something just cant. Malcanis' Law: Whenever a mechanics change is proposed on behalf of "new players", that change is always to the overwhelming advantage of richer, older players.
Vaerah Vahrokha Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting	Posted - 2010.12.10 12:55:00 - [46] Quote: Why? The Mach is perfectly capable vs Bloods and Sansha, and it murders Serps as well as anything out there. Just a question of changing hardeners and ammo types. Don't take my "Mach reign is Matar lands and somewhat Gallente" as a bad judgement, I love the Mach. What I want to say is that in Gallente there are visibly more chances to get longer range missions and serp battleships are far easier to be of the kind that burns away and kite. I immediately notice that, because the 7-8M bounty ticks start going down on those missions, therefore for me it's a drop in efficiency. Quote: Just a question of changing hardeners and ammo types. Ammo for sure, hardeners... sometimes I forget to turn them on and won't notice it until I alt tab back from my other clients (battleships take some more seconds to die, so why slack in that client) and the eye notices the lack of animation on the modules icons. Quote: BTW 1200 DPS with 70Km falloff doesn't mean 1200 DPS at 70Km, as correctly pointed out, but it does mean that you're still doing over 1000DPS at 20Km, which is about the engagement range I sit at with my Mach I would not fight at 20km though, I AB to and flank the battleships at 6-7 km (so to keep transversal below 30m/s), the stuff blows even quicker :D BCs and cruisers last 1 to 2 volleys at up to 24km for me, so I indeed don't bother getting so close but I do align to reduce transversal. - Auditing & consulting When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.12.10 14:19:00 - [47] Dont stick too much to cookie cutter ab+acs, trust me, you will like mwd even on pve macha. And try to use arty macha in sanshas blockade and you will see, that its not very far behind nightmare.
Trebor Whettam	Posted - 2010.12.10 21:51:00 - [48] Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha Quote: I don't buy it. There's no way that a Machariel nets more isk/hr than a Paladin munching on Armor Plates in Amarr space. The Paladin projects more dps over most of the usable range Mach reign is Matar lands and somewhat Gallente (lots of angel missions given at the agent I am at ATM). Angels drop a bit less armor plates, a lot more alloyed trit bars and generally an excellent mix of loot. Angels tend to come very close so the "more dps over most of the usable range" is moot. The rare exceptions are some of the > 1M rats that try to kite, but those are easily countered by heading to them with AB on before they get a chance to go beyond 25km (i.e. easy). This is a superb argument for running a Vargur or Golem in Minmatar space. In fact, I believe that Frozean generated his obscene profits by doing just that with a Golem/CNR/Tengu tag-team. I tossed out the Paladin in BR-space example because I had just ran the numbers on how much isk I had made in my trial one hour grind earlier that day (Over 20M in just Armor Plates; yeah, small sample). The main issue with the Mach is this: if you're killing things within 40km anyways, you might as well be salvaging. The ridiculous ammo usage only further aggravates the inefficiency. While the Mach has a superb dps, it nets far less isk per kill than a Marauder on short range missions (no loot/salvage; lots of ammo), and it's unable to properly blitz many long-range missions as efficiently as a proper blitz ships.
Moneyhungryhoe	Posted - 2010.12.11 00:24:00 - [49] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton tbh I don't think I could focus well enough on 2 machs in separate missions to make it better than having them in one mission. on that note I think I just failed at eating dinner and flying a cnr. Train multitasking to 1 on yourself. BTW which part did you fail? CNR melted or dinner came all over keyboard and clothes?
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.12.11 04:05:00 - [50] Originally by: Moneyhungryhoe Train multitasking to 1 on yourself. BTW which part did you fail? CNR melted or dinner came all over keyboard and clothes? I would like to train that. and the cnr's shields were melting, I managed to warp it out though, damn 1.2mil blood raider battleships hurt, the nos didn't help either.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.12.11 04:20:00 - [51] Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Dont stick too much to cookie cutter ab+acs, trust me, you will like mwd even on pve macha. And try to use arty macha in sanshas blockade and you will see, that its not very far behind nightmare. arty in a sansha blockade just sounds like a bad idea, low tracking + all that td although the big falloff + manual piloting might make it work....... I just looked at the falloff with 3xte lols and I'd love a mwd on the macha, but most missions don't (didn't?) allow one.
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.12.11 10:36:00 - [52] Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton ... Considering the speed of all tding cruisers is almost the same as speed of macha without ab, its not a problem at all. And ofc falloff isnt affected by npc tds. Idk about most missions but angel extravaganza allows to use mwd even if its deadspace, but for example worlds collide not. There was some talks about allowing mwd for all missions... but i dont have any reliable info about this.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.12.11 16:36:00 - [53] Edited by: Chainsaw Plankton on 11/12/2010 16:38:47 doh I forgot the "I change my mind" part after the just looking at that falloff and dps, arty mach has to be one of the best ships for that mission and one of the pve devs was saying something about allowing them in a thread a while ago, but I don't remember seeing anything since. in this thread: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1376276&page=1
freshspree	Posted - 2010.12.18 22:47:00 - [54] I ran a mish in my mach with a friend in a nightmare and i must say that a nightmare/pally is much better in about 70% of missions because of the range capabilties but you can always use 1200mm artillery and kite at long distances but it isn't as good as using a nightmare because of the optimal range u have with beams or t2 pulse with scorch crystal. The mach also doesn't have a higher max possible dps. Pulses fair better in that category but who cares since projectiles don't use cap . I'd prefer a vargur because of the lovely tracking which can be boosted with tracking comps to almost reach stock medium artillery turret tracking speed. I also think a vargur has better falloff with tracking comps. I love my mach because of the speed + AB. It's just plainly amazing for a BS considering the fact i switched from a raven, CNR, SNI.
freshspree	Posted - 2010.12.18 23:44:00 - [55] Originally by: freshspree I ran a mish in my mach with a friend in a nightmare and i must say that a nightmare/pally is much better in about 70% of missions because of the range capabilties but you can always use 1200mm artillery and kite at long distances but it isn't as good as using a nightmare because of the optimal range u have with beams or t2 pulse with scorch crystal. The mach also doesn't have a higher max possible dps. Pulses fair better in that category but who cares since projectiles don't use cap . I'd prefer a vargur because of the lovely tracking which can be boosted with tracking comps to almost reach stock medium artillery turret tracking speed. I also think a vargur has better falloff with tracking comps. I love my mach because of the speed + AB. It's just plainly amazing for a BS considering the fact i switched from a raven, CNR, SNI. sorry, i think i have to take back d part where i said nightmare's max possible dps is higher than a machariel's. it's a lie, a mach will out dps a nightmare with max skills.

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