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Learning Skills removal, why such a haste?

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Opa God	Posted - 2010.12.07 01:51:00 - [1] Quote: In the tiny number of cases where people have bought them just recently and not really trained them much, we recognize that this isn't ideal, but still, you dropped ~20m... Well you just could give us a little bit more time to train them to an appropriate level, so we could get at least a little advantage out of our investment.
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2010.12.07 02:05:00 - [2] Time of death: NOW. Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. Word of Chaos
Opa God	Posted - 2010.12.07 02:41:00 - [3] Originally by: Anubis Xian Time of death: NOW. I don't understand. Wrong post?
Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2010.12.07 03:08:00 - [4] Originally by: Opa God Well you just could give us a little bit more time to train them to an appropriate level, so we could get at least a little advantage out of our investment. You had 2 weeks notice. If you weren't smart enough to train them in that time, well tough ****.
Covert Kitty Amarr ISK Solutions SRS.	Posted - 2010.12.07 07:49:00 - [5] Edited by: Covert Kitty on 07/12/2010 07:49:03 Quote: You had 2 weeks notice. If you weren't smart enough to train them in that time, well tough ****. ^^^^^ this ^^^^ There has to be a transition, that time is now, sorry. It's way better overall.
Opa God	Posted - 2010.12.07 08:37:00 - [6] Originally by: Breaker77 You had 2 weeks notice. If you weren't smart enough to train them in that time, well tough ****. i restarted training as soon as i heard about the change on 28th of november. But even after the 14th i will have skills that give high sp/hour. They will last for two weeks. Other players may have a longer list of profitable skills.
Kaleandra Verine	Posted - 2010.12.07 15:30:00 - [7] I agree - give us at least until 1 January before taking learning skills away. Or even better,d on't take them away at all . . .
Offduty Guard	Posted - 2010.12.07 16:28:00 - [8] Wow.... remove the learning skills and let us all train the same speed. For those that lost some speed on training, your getting more skills back for having trained them longer. You've had a step up on those of us who are "Lazy" and arn't being sent back to the stone age. The changes are fine, you will all live, and the game WILL go on. Oh yes it will.
Hooligan Tool Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2010.12.07 17:20:00 - [9] No matter when they do the switchover, they will cause some people to whine "give me more time." They gave a specific date, and I hope they keep it. Sure, I wouldn't mind more time to pile on the free skill point pool, but I'd rather get this over and done with. Most of us will be training faster with the new system anyway. There is the slight possibility that they won't be able to make the deadline. They would likely have told us by now if that was the case though. ----- Ambush. Hit and run. Gank before tank. Speed is life.
Opa God	Posted - 2010.12.07 19:16:00 - [10] Originally by: Covert Kitty There has to be a transition, that time is now, sorry. It's way better overall. Wrong. It is way better to give us more time. With the reimbursal i can learn more skills that i could only learn in 10 months after the next remap.
Opa God	Posted - 2010.12.07 19:20:00 - [11] Originally by: Offduty Guard For those that lost some speed on training, your getting more skills back for having trained them longer. This isn't about those who lost (or will lose) some speed on training, this is about those, who invested 20m isk for not getting much.
Opa God	Posted - 2010.12.07 19:24:00 - [12] Originally by: Hooligan Tool No matter when they do the switchover, they will cause some people to whine "give me more time." No, there will be a time when everyone (who cares about this) will definitely be ready and it doesn't take long till then.
Mykal Day	Posted - 2010.12.07 19:57:00 - [13] Originally by: Opa God Originally by: Offduty Guard For those that lost some speed on training, your getting more skills back for having trained them longer. This isn't about those who lost (or will lose) some speed on training, this is about those, who invested 20m isk for not getting much. Are you really crying over 20m? __________________________________________________ I have slipped the surly bonds of earth And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings...
Opa God	Posted - 2010.12.07 20:15:00 - [14] Originally by: Mykal Day Are you really crying over 20m? No. It's not that much, but having to wait a few days longer isn't that much, too.
Lost Greybeard	Posted - 2010.12.07 20:49:00 - [15] Opa God will gladly pay you tomorrow for a hamburger today. The dates are what they are, delay would only allow more people to work themselves into a situation where they are at a mild disadvantage for the sake of *****ing. --- If you outlaw tautologies, only outlaws will have tautologies. ~Anonymous
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.12.07 21:07:00 - [16] Originally by: Opa God Originally by: Covert Kitty There has to be a transition, that time is now, sorry. It's way better overall. Wrong. It is way better to give us more time. With the reimbursal i can learn more skills that i could only learn in 10 months after the next remap. àand guess what, adding more learning skills won't make any real difference. You already decided that you can wait 12 (now 10) months for those skills. If you train Learning skills instead of what you actually have planned, you're moving that remap point further into the future because you won't have finished your 12-month plan by the time those 12 months are up. So you'll just end up having to wait as long for most of those off-remap skills anyway. Also, if you actually want to make good use of your reimbursed learning SP, you don't spend them on things you intend to remap to later for optimal training speed ù you spend them on things that you will never train at top speed. Most importantly, though, this switch is not about giving people the most SP to remap ù it's about getting the switch over and done with as soon as possible after 4 years of hand-wringing, 1 year of looking at possible solutions, and half a year of having the proper tools at their disposal. "Haste" is not something we're dealing with here. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Jennifer Starling Amarr	Posted - 2010.12.07 22:15:00 - [17] Originally by: Opa God Well you just could give us a little bit more time to train them to an appropriate level, so we could get at least a little advantage out of our investment. But .. but .. we've been waiting YEARS for it to be removed and you had like 3-4 weeks to train some of it!
GODS H4ND	Posted - 2010.12.08 00:03:00 - [18] Can you smell it, it's really strong now...........
GODS H4ND	Posted - 2010.12.08 00:05:00 - [19] TROLLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL
Opa God	Posted - 2010.12.08 03:35:00 - [20] Originally by: Lost Greybeard work themselves into a situation where they are at a mild disadvantage for the sake of *****ing. By training the wrong learning skills? How will they ever find out if they even can't do the math for that?
Barkaial Starfinder Minmatar The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost	Posted - 2010.12.08 03:39:00 - [21] You got it wrong. It is not you not getting benefits from your recently bought skills. It is just that people that start playing now won't need to buy and train pointless skills.
Opa God	Posted - 2010.12.08 03:48:00 - [22] Originally by: Tippia àand guess what, adding more learning skills won't make any real difference. two extra weeks of the learning skills will be put into 25 days of other skills, that's a difference. Originally by: Tippia You already decided that you can wait 12 (now 10) months for those skills. If you train Learning skills instead of what you actually have planned, you're moving that remap point further into the future because you won't have finished your 12-month plan by the time those 12 months are up. So you'll just end up having to wait as long for most of those off-remap skills anyway. Also, if you actually want to make good use of your reimbursed learning SP, you don't spend them on things you intend to remap to later for optimal training speed ù you spend them on things that you will never train at top speed. I can do the next remap whenever i want; it is not bound to any date. And i am not moving the remap-point into the future, because i have thrown some learning skills out of my skill-plan i intended to learn before the anouncement, but they don't make sense anymore. Also there is a problem in your argument to invest the skillpoints into skills that will never be learned at top speed, because it is possible to make remaps that will make any skill i want train faster than every other skill. I have planed to put the reimbursed skillpoints into skills heaviely relying on charisma, because i don't think i can set up a plan with a whole year of skills based on charisma. Originally by: Tippia Most importantly, though, this switch is not about giving people the most SP to remap ù it's about getting the switch over and done with as soon as possible after 4 years of hand-wringing, 1 year of looking at possible solutions, and half a year of having the proper tools at their disposal. "Haste" is not something we're dealing with here. I am sorry, but i didn't know how long this discussion has been going on, but the haste is now, not in the years before.
Opa God	Posted - 2010.12.08 04:10:00 - [23] Originally by: Barkaial Starfinder You got it wrong. It is not you not getting benefits from your recently bought skills. It is just that people that start playing now won't need to buy and train pointless skills. I never said i am not (or didn't) getting benefits. I know i have trained more than others who don't have these skills. It is just that i have started playing now and bought the skills but couldn't train them to the max. It is already harder for new players to buy the skills now. Training them now isn't pointless as you can see, but still i am pleased that they are removing them. What's so bad about removing them a little bit later?
Anubis Xian Reavers	Posted - 2010.12.08 04:35:00 - [24] Damn necromancers... Originally by: Hooligan Tool Sure, I wouldn't mind more time to pile on the free skill point pool, What free sp pool? Originally by: CCP Oveur The client handles no logic, it is simply a dumb terminal. Word of Chaos
Hooligan Tool Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2010.12.08 04:54:00 - [25] Originally by: Anubis Xian Originally by: Hooligan Tool Sure, I wouldn't mind more time to pile on the free skill point pool, What free sp pool? You're really going to nit-pick about this!?!? sigh Fine... Replace the offending text with this: Sure, I wouldn't mind more time to pile on the immediate-effect skill point pool created from the removal of Learning skills, grumble grumble ----- Ambush. Hit and run. Gank before tank. Speed is life.
Forum Guy	Posted - 2010.12.08 08:14:00 - [26] Originally by: Anubis Xian Damn necromancers... Originally by: Hooligan Tool Sure, I wouldn't mind more time to pile on the free skill point pool, What free sp pool? Yep, there is no free sp only returned sp. Only reason I can see for some people wanting a longer time to train learning skills is because it saves them having to remap to train charisma based skills. Meaning they train memory/intelligence skills (learning skills) then use the sp that is returned to complete charisma/willpower skills. So in essence circumvent the remap process. The change has to happen sooner or later so might as well be sooner, so tough luck.
Gemberslaafje Vivicide	Posted - 2010.12.08 08:18:00 - [27] Can I have your stuff? --- Creator of the Eve Character Appraiser: http://gemblog.nl/skill/ Also a spy.
Forum Guy	Posted - 2010.12.08 08:33:00 - [28] Originally by: Opa God Quote: In the tiny number of cases where people have bought them just recently and not really trained them much, we recognize that this isn't ideal, but still, you dropped ~20m... Well you just could give us a little bit more time to train them to an appropriate level, so we could get at least a little advantage out of our investment. You should not be arguing to extend the time but if anything maybe a refund to those that have only recently learnt those skills. This might not be that easy to do and what's 22.5 million isk worth compared to the extra training speed. Sure those that have only recently learnt those skills have not got much out of their investment. But if nothing can be done in this respect then at least you should be proud that you've taken one for the team.
Medaladar	Posted - 2010.12.08 11:31:00 - [29] Edited by: Medaladar on 08/12/2010 11:33:54 Of the folks out there, I'm sure that most stop at 5/4 on their learning, so I'm thankful that I'm recouping almost 3 months worth of training from skills... this is going to be SAWEET!!! (5/5 was awesome with +4's) My primary concern, though, is whether they're going to auto-balance the stats OR are they just going to add the points to each stat. This comes more in to play when you're considering a neural remap... since I want to do that now, am I only going to be hosing myself if I do so prior to the learning deletion or are we going to get a free-remap? PS: For you newbs that decided that the extra stat points weren't worth it and now are crying because you want the time returned... for something you didn't invest in... Tough S***. Get over it.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.12.08 13:40:00 - [30] Originally by: Opa God two extra weeks of the learning skills will be put into 25 days of other skills, that's a difference. Two extra weeks of training that means you lose two weeks of training something more useful. And those 25 days of other skills are only worth the same two weeks after you remap to the right attributes. The only difference is that you get those skills now, and in ten months, you have to make up for the skills you skipped now in order to train learning skills instead. End result: no time gained, just some completion times shifted around. Quote: I can do the next remap whenever i want; it is not bound to any date. Yes it is: in 10 months, according to you. Presumably, you filled those 10 months with skills with the right attribute combination. If you throw those skills out and replace them with learning skills, when the 10 months are up, you will have a two-week backlog on skills you haven't trained yet because you went for learning skills instead. If you didn't have the full 10 months plannedà then you need to be a bit more careful with your remaps in the future. Quote: Also there is a problem in your argument to invest the skillpoints into skills that will never be learned at top speed, because it is possible to make remaps that will make any skill i want train faster than every other skill. And the problem with that is that it would be stupid. There are plenty of skills that have odd-ball attribute combinations that you will (or at least should) never remap to because there simply isn't enough skills to keep that remap worth-while for a full year. Quote: I am sorry, but i didn't know how long this discussion has been going on, but the haste is now, not in the years before. There is no haste. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki

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