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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.12.07 17:48:00 -
[61]
Originally by: frog0ut I would like to hear your thoughts.
Only if they are in agreement with yours. amirite?
We know you're butt hurt Froggy, but we only care enough to laugh at you and post about it. Let's hope, you get another forum ban over it.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
Black Dranzer
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.07 17:48:00 -
[62]
Oh look, it's this thread again. Originally by: frog0ut If CCP Proposed Removing ECM, what would you argue to keep it in the game?
That would depend on:
- Why they proposed its removal
- What they proposed as its replacement
|24 Hour Plex|Mining Makeover| |
price checkinho
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Posted - 2010.12.07 17:50:00 -
[63]
Originally by: ilikeboys What would you argue to keep me in the game? Assuming that they replaced the Caldari Recon ships with an equally effective EWAR, and that ECCM and Sensor Backup Arrays still gave a useful effect, what would you say to defend the ECM mechanic in the game.
Stuff like "I think it is one of the few counters to Spider-Tanking", "I think it is an interesting and challenging mechanic" etc.
I would like to hear your thoughts.
ECM isnt broken and niether is ECCM, so why would CCP remove them from the game? Your question is assanine and trollish, and relates to several closed and moved threads on the matter.
Furhtermore hypothetical questions are so 7th grade its not funny.
What would YOU do if improbable variable x happened? I would obviously do improbable variable y to counter.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.12.07 17:58:00 -
[64]
Originally by: frog0ut Just get out of my thread already, there have been many constructive replies, and you're just created noise.
Me. Noise. Riiiiiight.... Because you have so eloquently dismantled all of my arguments so far or something. And you added a lot of non-noise to the discussion. Projecting much ?
How about you answer to post #11 in this very thread first for a change ? _
Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Black Dranzer
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.07 18:07:00 -
[65]
Okay, somebody help me out here.
There are two frogouts: frog0ut and fr0gout. fr0gout is a year old character. frog0ut is only a couple of weeks old. Are they like.. the same person? Or is one just a troll alt? They both seem to have rampant issues with ECM but frog0ut may just be somebody trying to make fr0gout look bad.
|24 Hour Plex|Mining Makeover| |
Mag's
the united Negative Ten.
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Posted - 2010.12.07 18:09:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Black Dranzer Okay, somebody help me out here.
There are two frogouts: frog0ut and fr0gout. fr0gout is a year old character. frog0ut is only a couple of weeks old. Are they like.. the same person? Or is one just a troll alt? They both seem to have rampant issues with ECM but frog0ut may just be somebody trying to make fr0gout look bad.
fr0gout got a forum ban for spamming ECM threads. The other is his spamming more ECM threads alt.
Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it.
Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive. |
Magnus Orin
Minmatar United Systems Navy Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2010.12.07 18:20:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Magnus Orin on 07/12/2010 18:20:55 ECM is pretty much the main counter to logistics heavy fleets.
That alone is enough reason to keep it. Sarcasm - Because i'm too far away to strangle you. |
Strogen Mkok
Aliastra
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Posted - 2010.12.07 18:24:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Mr LaForge Does anyone have the link to his killmail so we can point and laugh?
This might be it. Not sure though, and it's not API verified.
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Doddy
Burning Vendetta
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Posted - 2010.12.07 18:25:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Taedrin
5) ECM simply removes my ship from combat, making me unable to play the game at all (untrue - you can still bump, scout, warp out and back in, etc...)
Smartbombs, drones, foff missiles, gang-links, and thats assuming your ship isn't a supercap or a cap in seige/triage mode.
Originally by: Taedrin
6) ECM is too mandatory in fleet compositions (I would argue: so are RR, tacklers and DPS)
I dunno what fleets you have been flying in tbh, the last ecm nerf saw the number of ecm boats being used in fleets drop radically. There are very very few fleets where ecm boats are even mentioned when people are organising fleets. They are mainly used to try and disrupt RR and without ecm RRvsDPS would be the only thing that mattered, which is fail.
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1ee7W4rr10z
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Posted - 2010.12.07 19:07:00 -
[70]
I support nerfing ECM, It's too powerful.
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BECAUSE'OF FALCON
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Posted - 2010.12.07 19:14:00 -
[71]
Y r u so mad bro?
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VC General
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Posted - 2010.12.07 19:23:00 -
[72]
I don't see why ECM is considered so overpowered. Tracking disruptors and damps can make a player just as helpless, and they don't have a chance to fail at optimal. Oh wait, I forgot everyone flies FoF Drakes now. Nevermind, no EWAR works.
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Jovan Geldon
Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire
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Posted - 2010.12.07 19:25:00 -
[73]
Originally by: frog0ut Just get out of my thread already
Originally by: frog0ut get out of my thread
Originally by: frog0ut my thread
wat
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Alexandra Stormwing
Blood Money Inc.
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Posted - 2010.12.07 19:40:00 -
[74]
ECM is a pirate's best friend. It's much easier to ransom someone who is having problems targeting you.
It's easy for new players to become helpful to a gang by training up for a cheap griffin. It's a role for them to play other than suicide-rifter-tackle.
There's really no other counter to logistics chains.
ECM allows an otherwise inferior group to engage a more formidable target and have a chance to win.
It can be used defensively as a GTFO option. No other EWar gives you as good an opportunity for escape.
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CCP Adida
C C P C C P Alliance
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Posted - 2010.12.07 20:51:00 -
[75]
Removed and edited trolling comments.
Adida Community Rep CCP Hf, EVE Online
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Anyura
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Posted - 2010.12.07 20:54:00 -
[76]
I concur with a number of other posters in this thread. Your last 10 threads have been complaining about ECM and time and again people have present rational arguments as to why it should remain. Your responses to these proposals have been at best to ignore them and at worst flame/troll them.
Yes, I believe that ECM is a valid form of ewar, despite is probability based nature. You overlook the fact that *any* ECM ship, whether it is a Scorpion, Kitsune or (I suspect the source of your annoyance) Falcon is *always* called as a primary target meaning that anything which isn't jammed or succeeds in beating the scrambler strength has a free ticket to DPS away.
Ewar is pretty much all these ships can do though - anyone that fits a Falcon or Kitsune for DPS is a prize tool and will deserve the killmail that swiftly follows. Engaging an ECM ship in 1 to 1 is a fool's tactic and you should recognise the threat of being locked down by one.
However, as you're almost certainly going to ignore what I've written here, Captain Amphibian, here's a suggestion for an alternate form of ewar - a module that reduces rate of fire for turrets and missile systems. I have little doubt that as soon as you are on the receiving end of an alternate version, you will create another 10 threads complaining about it.
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Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
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Posted - 2010.12.07 20:56:00 -
[77]
Edited by: Tippia on 07/12/2010 20:57:06
Originally by: CCP Adida Removed and edited trolling comments.
You missed a fewà most notably the OP.
Originally by: Anyura Ewar is pretty much all these ships can do though - anyone that fits a Falcon or Kitsune for DPS is a prize tool and will deserve the killmail that swiftly follows. Engaging an ECM ship in 1 to 1 is a fool's tactic and you should recognise the threat of being locked down by one.
Funnily enough, the Rook can be made into a pretty nasty missile spammer, almost like an ECM-carrying Cerb. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki |
Anyura
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Posted - 2010.12.07 21:04:00 -
[78]
Originally by: Tippia Edited by: Tippia on 07/12/2010 20:57:06
Originally by: CCP Adida Removed and edited trolling comments.
You missed a fewà most notably the OP.
Originally by: Anyura Ewar is pretty much all these ships can do though - anyone that fits a Falcon or Kitsune for DPS is a prize tool and will deserve the killmail that swiftly follows. Engaging an ECM ship in 1 to 1 is a fool's tactic and you should recognise the threat of being locked down by one.
Funnily enough, the Rook can be made into a pretty nasty missile spammer, almost like an ECM-carrying Cerb.
Happy to concede the point, I'm not too clued up on the Rook - I tend to do most of my ewar stuff in EAFs.
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.12.07 21:59:00 -
[79]
Originally by: frog0ut I am not complaining that ECM is too effective, this is just a hypothetical question regarding the ECM mechanic itself. By something equally effective I mean something which would allow the Caldari Ewar ships to cripple 2-3 ships in fleets, while not completely "totalhelldeath"ing something into complete uselessness.
Well why not replace warp jammers with something else? I mean: ECM may be able to lock things down (and not even 100%) but at least you can still get away - if I'm attacked by an overwhelming outnumbering gang I can't even get away because of warp disruptors/scramblers!!!
Which is far more serious!!
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Brian Ballsack
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Posted - 2010.12.08 13:55:00 -
[80]
Originally by: BECAUSE'OF FALCON Y r u so mad bro?
Because he lost his po0rly fitted Vexor.
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ILikeMarkets
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Posted - 2010.12.08 18:49:00 -
[81]
Personally, I don't see how stunlock is a fun mechanic. Getting outplayed- that is fun. Getting stomped by a ship several times your size... well, less fun, but it isn't horrible. Getting stomped by a large group of ships and having at least a chance to shoot back- more fun than just dying. Sitting and staring at the screen while doing absolutely nothing while someone shoots you- not fun at all.
Stunlock wasn't fun for rogues in warcraft, it wasn't fun for sundancers in Shadowbane, and it isn't fun for EWAR ships in EVE.
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Corporal Punishment08
NosWaffle Nostradamus Effect
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Posted - 2010.12.08 19:00:00 -
[82]
Originally by: ILikeMarkets Personally, I don't see how stunlock is a fun mechanic. Getting outplayed- that is fun. Getting stomped by a ship several times your size... well, less fun, but it isn't horrible. Getting stomped by a large group of ships and having at least a chance to shoot back- more fun than just dying. Sitting and staring at the screen while doing absolutely nothing while someone shoots you- not fun at all.
Stunlock wasn't fun for rogues in warcraft, it wasn't fun for sundancers in Shadowbane, and it isn't fun for EWAR ships in EVE.
You're not supposed to have fun. You're just supposed to get your ship blown up. The fact is, there are other EWARs that work better than ECM. With an ECM ship, sure you can jam 8 ships hypothetically, good luck. I once had a guy pinned down in my BB. He was in some sort of Battleship. I was like oh sweet, jammed, pointed, what more could I ask for? Then the drones came out. The he got a lock and I died miserably to light scout drones. Ya know what the worst part is? I had him jammed for a full 2 minutes, but I hadn't got him down past 90% shields. And he was armour tanking... Obviously I was out testing my ECM capabilities, otherwise I wouldn't have taken him on, AND I would've warped out the second the drones came out.
ECM needs a dedicated ECM ship in order to be effective, and you can't solo anything. The other types of EWAR can be used in conjuction with weapons to create a far superior vessel.
This is EVE. Adapt or you will be destroyed. I'm sorry if that concept is too complicated for you, or if it seems unfair.
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Jennifer Starling
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.12.08 20:26:00 -
[83]
Originally by: ILikeMarkets Personally, I don't see how stunlock is a fun mechanic. Getting outplayed- that is fun. Sitting and staring at the screen while doing absolutely nothing while someone shoots you- not fun at all.
There's one big difference between stunning/fearing and ECM: you can still get away. ECM doesn't web or warp jam you. That's a HUGE difference.
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Ganagati
Caldari Zebra Corp
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Posted - 2010.12.09 10:01:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Corporal Punishment08
This is EVE. Adapt or you will be destroyed. I'm sorry if that concept is too complicated for you, or if it seems unfair.
It's true, folks do adapt: they pvp less and focus their PvP on blobs.
Nice to see there is more support for getting people to become carebears. :)
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Drugrunner Dude
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Posted - 2010.12.09 10:12:00 -
[85]
Originally by: CCP Adida Removed and edited trolling comments.
Why do you protect him?
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Makko Gray
Nexus Aerospace Corporation
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Posted - 2010.12.09 10:24:00 -
[86]
I think ECM is a great type of EWAR to have with plenty of reason to keep it.
I think it could be made much more interesting though - personally I'd have change it from the flat options of you can lock or you can't to a mechanism that reduced the number of targets you could lock.
So the chances or you removing one or two locks from you opponent would be high with the chance to removing more locks reducing so you could still lock people out completely, and it would be easier against those with the ability to lock fewer targets to begin with (either due to ships or skills). All the other factors would remain in play such as ECCM and you could tweak/boost ECM to make up for it. So on that basis you could argue for more depth but I don't think it could be argued to be a broken mechanic that warrents removal.
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