wrong.

the hulk got buffed in every way INCLUDING cargo.

pre-patch, 8k cargo. post patch, 8.5k ore bay AND 350 cargo. do the maths.

No, it didn't. The hulk's absolute maximum cargo was cut by 45-50%, dependant on rigs, it's shield regeneration time was increased by roughly 60% (passive shield tank nerf), and its available cargo for crystals was significantly reduced as well. The overall net effect was a buff for the hulk, yes, but saying it was "buffed in every way" is incorrect. Hell, for that matter the effectiveness of damage controls on the hulk was nerfed because CCP reprioritized shield HP over hull HP for some strange reason.

wrong.

the hulk got buffed in every way INCLUDING cargo.

pre-patch, 8k cargo. post patch, 8.5k ore bay AND 350 cargo. do the maths.

I assumed hehad full cargo hold expander rigs/mods..

Ccp you suck seriously you removed 50percent of my capacity and i should be happy for you allowing me to pay to playi know peeps who are goiing to quit playing becauuse of your action why. Cant you leave the good thing alone why do you always mess them up

I just noticed to day the te expanded Cargo was not working on my Hulk anymore.

by that logic why not get a retriever? its got "about the same yield" and "about the same ore bay"
or why ever get an implant? its "about the same as not having one"

**** fitting your hulk doesn't mean the hulk got nerfed.

also, the mackinaw has more ehp, yield and cargo than the shitfit hulk. again, how is there a nerf here?

Your response only applies to maximum cargo fittings, it does not apply to the shield recharge nerf, the lower base cargo capacity for mining crystals, or the reduced effectiveness of damage controls due to the HP reprioritization. Even if you want to discount ship fittings that's two clear nerfs, and while it still needs one to count fittings it's also one meta-nerf. For that matter the shield resistance bonus was lowered which in turn lowers the effectiveness of flat HP boosting modules like shield extenders which is another meta-nerf.

So with two actual nerfs and two meta-nerfs how was the hulk "buffed in every way INCLUDING cargo" again?

]Wait someone actually relied on the hulks natural shield recharge for a tank? Really?

I would imagine that just about every high-sec miner who didn't fit a shield booster and mined below .9 (or .8, I can never remember where rats start spawning) security and couldn't be arsed to deploy drones did. That said the fact is that people who tanked their hulks actually did rely on the ship's passive regeneration to offset at least some of the damage, especially in DPS-oriented builds like the catalyst's, from suicide gankers. It takes a bit longer for someone to chew through your 5k shields if your shield tank can regenerate enough to mitigate 15% of their damage than it does if your regeneration only mitigates 10%, possibly long enough for CONCORD to put down the donuts and step on the antimatter. /shrugs.

Deride the idea all you want, but folks did rely on it to one degree or another and in one way or another.

I would imagine that just about every high-sec miner who didn't fit a shield booster and mined below .9 (or .8, I can never remember where rats start spawning) security and couldn't be arsed to deploy drones did. That said the fact is that people who tanked their hulks actually did rely on the ship's passive regeneration to offset at least some of the damage, especially in DPS-oriented builds like the catalyst's, from suicide gankers. It takes a bit longer for someone to chew through your 5k shields if your shield tank can regenerate enough to mitigate 15% of their damage than it does if your regeneration only mitigates 10%, possibly long enough for CONCORD to put down the donuts and step on the antimatter. /shrugs.

Deride the idea all you want, but folks did rely on it to one degree or another and in one way or another.

I've never seen a rat spawn in .9, and I rarely get one in .8. In .5 systems, I tend to get a spawn of two or three rats every half-hour or so. I throw up some Hobs in .6 and .7 systems and have some moderate shield tank, and I've never had rats take my shield below 50% before the drones popped them.

So only fail people relied on it. It's like the fail people who fitted cargohold expanders in their lows and are now complaining about the loss space. So is a nerf really a nerf if it effects something that doesn't matter?

EDIT : I actually like the increase in shield tank on the hulk. Yes it makes a DC unit a bit less effective but it also means my orca pilot's siege warfare has a bigger effect then before (harmonizer etc).

That build went from 36,381 "omni" EHP to 38,488, a 5.8% increase, and the shield regeneration dropped from 138 DPS to 93 DPS, 32.6% drop. Contrast that to the 18.whatever% increase in raw EHP hulks got and it's annoying. It's still an EHP buff, it's still good, it's just annoying how you go from 18% naked to 6% tanked.

So now you're complaining that the Hulk (not meant to be a tanky ship anymore) didn't get its tank buffed enough?

I haven't actually complained about anything. All I did was point out that the statements that the hulk "got buffed in every way" were factually incorrect.

I haven't actually complained about anything. All I did was point out that the statements that the hulk "got buffed in every way" were factually incorrect.

Unfortunately that "bigger effect" isn't all that much bigger. It's something like 104 EHP, 7.5%, when you compare buffer fits with orcas packing T2 harmonizing links using max skills and no siege mindlink.

TBH, it's annoying how quickly the hulk's EHP buff drops, percentage-wise, when you compare tanked builds from pre-1.2 and now.

What's all this then?

What's all this then?

How dare you use reality and facts against Shreza. I mean seriously this person thinks that the hulk lost 100-300hp shield regen after the buff or something. Which will somehow stop a gang of gankers from ganking a hulk where as a buffer fit which has more HP will somehow be doomed..

Stating facts.



The hulk lost shield regeneration due to the increased recharge time, that's a fact. I also don't recall saying or even implying that it was enough to "stop a gang of gankers." How you would come to that conclusion when I even pointed out that the EHP increase the hulk got when buffer tanked was in the 5-6% range is beyond me.

_____

Put words in my mouth all you want, ascribe motivations to my posts that don't exist all you care to, it doesn't change the fact that not every change made to the hulk was a buff. The overall effect was a buff, but not every change was a buff. Feel free to believe that the hulk was "buffed in every way" if you want to though.

I have a noticeable increase in yield

Oh and CCP has something to say to you.

http://community.eveonline.com/devblog.asp?a=blog&nbid=73098






Pay attention to yields stated too



Have a good day.

Here is a player that is stuborn to the last and refuses to adapt. Well then enjoy your Hulk. You could be having so much more fun in a Mack with a huge ore bay and a tank easily double what you had in your Hulk. And the Mack will mine just about as fast as your old Hulk did. But hey refuse to adapt and complain about the change. When you rage quit I will take your stuff.

This exactly.

I have mined in a retriever (when I do mine) since my first or second month in EVE. I'm just past 2 years now and still wasn't ready to train barges 5 before the changes were announced. My ship got a HUGE buff. I don't dispute that it needed a buff, but it's too much. It's just so darn easy to mine in this contraption that I really shouldn't have that insane output. I'd say give em these role bonuses and the problem will be fixed:

retriever/mackinaw: +25%

procurer/skiff: +100%

This would leave the small barges at a net mining yield of 200%/210% and the mediums at 250%/262.5%. The larges would have a base of 300% and a max of 345%/396.75%. This means at these amounts, even the procurer which is small and fast, has a big fat capacitor, has tons of HP and a pretty nice-sized ore bay, at mining barge skill level 1 would still mine more than half as fast as a max-skilled hulk.

This automatically make the Hulk the default be all end all solution for mining