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Game stacked against new players

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MutationZ	Posted - 2005.01.15 01:07:00 - [1] Hi all, I've been playing Eve for almost a month now. I've gone thru the painful process of training up all the low skills so that my character can actually do something. I've done all the mind numbing snip boring kill a drone or deliver a pile of snip courier missions. I just got money together and bought an industrial ship and traded a bit. In 0.4 space a spaz (-10 rating) shoots and kills my ship and pod. (and 95% of my capital which was in the cargo bay :( ) Thanks Chaz Pounder. Hope it gave you the orgasm you implied it did. I digress. After weeks of mind numbing snip stuff I get podded and pod killed. Wtf? Are we just paying 20 Euros a month so we can be fodder to the people who have played since beta due to Skill points? I mean some one stands in 0.4 space 161 km away from the gate blasting every snip dude that comes thru??? What can I do about this? Zip, snip, nada. snip I mean, sure there should be a learning curve but it will take 3 months or so for this game to be fun (read equal footing - give or take) -not chugging around in a one shot kill rust bucket snip this. I'm back to rts Insert this snip* sux emoticon here* Edited for profanity and excessive ranting, please read the forum rules regarding these policies - Jacques Archambault
Skelator	Posted - 2005.01.15 01:14:00 - [2] Originally by: MutationZ removed Contact me in game. We will find a spot for you Im sure. Dont give up the game rocks with the proper Team They have us Surrounded again.. the Poor Bastards
Antoinette Civari	Posted - 2005.01.15 01:28:00 - [3] You just need some basic combat skills (mwd, scramble, web), a frigate and a couple of good mates who are interesting in combat. It`s easy to do a lot stuff even with low skillpoints .. you just need to know how.
Fever103	Posted - 2005.01.15 01:29:00 - [4] Originally by: Skelator Dont give up the game rocks with the proper Team He is right - it does seem unfair at times - but most of EVE player base had to go through this - see what Skelator can help you out with. Finding right set of people is half the job - even ***** mining can be fun. I hope you stay in EVE. Support Dead Space Ownership Idea!
RollinDutchMasters	Posted - 2005.01.15 01:31:00 - [5] If you missed the pop-up, .1-.4 space is unsafe. CONCORD will not save you. However, there are 1158 systems in EVE with a security status of .5 or above. In these systems, barring a wardec, you are safe from most forms of harm. If you cannot handle the jungles of low-sec, stay in the CONCORD ports. And read my sig. Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them.
Damajink	Posted - 2005.01.15 01:32:00 - [6] Don't go into 0.4 in an indy loaded with everything you have..... You DO get a pop up saying 'this space is not safe' before you in there, so it's not as if you didn't have a warning. If you aren't ready for low-sec then stay in 0.5 +.
Myal Terego	Posted - 2005.01.15 01:34:00 - [7] Im sure you are snip angry at all this right now. But belive me, youre not the only one whos suffered losses early in the game. See it as a good thing, would you have prefered to be in your first battleship when learning this lesson? The game may seem harsh from your point of view right now, but try joining up with a decent corp, and you wont have to worry about loosing some haulers / cruisers. I lost my first cruiser 2-3weeks into the game, the 2nd day i had it, was quite a heavy blow, since it had taken me great effort to get it. But 2 days later, i had a new one. Today, this sounds pretty much as a joke, but back then, loosing a ship actually meant something. cheers edited for profanity - Jacques Archambault [center] http://213.142.66.138/~nervar/myalb.jpg
anister	Posted - 2005.01.15 01:50:00 - [8] As a fairly new player myself i have to disagree with the first post. Ok, so you can't jump in the brown leather seat of a BS straight away, but that doesn't mean you have to be cannon fodder. I've trained up and specialised in a small amount of skills and as such i think i'm a pretty effective frigate pilot, I've had skirmishes with pilots who have been playing since the beta and i've lasted more then 10 minutes against long range and close range frigs. The fact that I trained up my missiles skills, mwd and webbing skills meant i dictated the pace as best i could and used my other skills to my advantage, kept him at bay and used my strength in missile ops. Give it a little more time, you'll get there. If not, can i have your stuff? ___
Dau Imperius	Posted - 2005.01.15 02:01:00 - [9] I suggest you stick with the game. This is not your typical come in and start hacking at everything game you might be used to. Patience is the key at first. We all had to start with little to nothing when this game first came out and we spent literal months just mining and building up...was not a picnic, but we kept at it. Unfortunetly, losers do play this game, and they tend to stick in .4 to .1 system where there are no alliances to pod them, or CONCORD to chase them off. New players have it easier then we have. You can find a good group and get things done you wouldn't be able to do on your own. Find that grup and patiently build yourself up some. It's that simple. Who knows, maybe one day you and that group will be the ones doing some damage to these nitwits who ruin the games for others. I know I'd fly easier knowing they were getting pounded to the abyss from players who said enough and pushed back. Don't worry about your skillpoints, just get the basics and you'll fit in to any group.
Shittake	Posted - 2005.01.15 02:08:00 - [10] If you are a new player in an Indy, you should stay out of 0.4-0.0 whicl unescorted. I'm a veteran from the first week of the game. Since then I've lost everythign and gained it back several times for various reasons, some of which were pirates. DO NOT give up on Eve. Convo me in-game, we have a growing yet tight-knit group of friendly folks who help each other out. I would expect that I could help you get back most of what you lost in a day or two, and you'd make some friends along the way. I WILL get you addicted to Eve :)
Xtro 2	Posted - 2005.01.15 02:09:00 - [11] The old players didnt start with 10mil+ skillpoints, they started with the same as you, they also didnt have implants, advanced learning skills etc Learn or Bail, this isnt a fast skillup neverwinternights type game, where you play four hours on end and overtake other players with ease. __________________________________________ Hell is nothing more than an office with fluorecent lights.
Rod Blaine	Posted - 2005.01.15 02:18:00 - [12] Edited by: Rod Blaine on 15/01/2005 02:18:41 correction: ALL MMO's are stakced against new players. Patience is essential, as old players quit or restart, you do get to be that old player eventually. Btw, do give skelator a mail. You will like stronghold. _______________________________________________ Yes yes, blogging is passÚ I know. Rod's Ramblingz on Eve-Online Solutions to your issues.
Geofferic Sidharttha	Posted - 2005.01.15 02:40:00 - [13] Good riddance? Why are you riding an industrial unguarded through 0.4 space? - - No pleasure, no rapture, no exquisite sin greater than central air. - Azrael, Dogma
Gantor Paxnor	Posted - 2005.01.15 02:46:00 - [14] Originally by: MutationZ Hi all, I just got money together and bought an industrial ship and traded a bit. In 0.4 space a spaz (-10 rating) shoots and kills my ship and pod. (and 95% of my capital which was in the cargo bay :( ) Thanks Chaz Pounder. Hope it gave you the orgasm you implied it did. I've been playing this game a little while now, and I still feel somewhat vulnerable when in an Indy in less than 0.5 sec space. Here are some tips: 1. Only go about in an Indy in low spec space when fewer people are online (e.g. just after downtime) 2. Don't use those low power slots for just cargo expanders - fit something more defensive, warp core stabilizers are your friend. 3. Invest in the tech II afterburners - they are better, and can mean the difference between blowing up at the gate and warping to the station for repairs. 4. Teamwork - the mechanics of EVE favour teamwork, take up the offer you've had earlier in this thread and explore that mechanic.
MutationZ	Posted - 2005.01.15 03:21:00 - [15] Thanks for the kind words! (some of you) I guess mt first post was to blow off steam :( It's just that the mechanics of the game are frustrating. Someone sits 160km from a gate and blasts easy targets. He has a -10 sec rating and a 14 million buck bounty on his head. Someone kills him and collects the bounty. He just uses platinum insurance to buy a new ship and start again. No high premium for a low sec rating to make it a risky business for HIM or anything.... I learnt a lesson the hard way (through impatience - my own fault) and paid the price. Now it's back to level 1 kill missions to scrape the ISK together for an indy and trading capital. I can't even kill stuff in level 2 missions. Their ships have double the lock on range of mine. 14 days of a couple of hours a day...zzzzz.. I'm not looking for an interstellar-battlestar-gallactica-super-duper ship after 2 weeks but I do see a snail overtaking me And NO. You can't have my stuff (one pair of mismatched socks and a stick of gum atm)
Gierling	Posted - 2005.01.15 03:34:00 - [16] Now I could really get behind the idea of higher premiums for lower sec characters. Also, why would any reputable clone business risk losing thier license by reanimating a known felon. Bastards we are lest Bastards we become.
Liu Kaskakka	Posted - 2005.01.15 03:40:00 - [17] patience is a virtue .. one I don't have .. that's why I play cs source when I get fed up with eve.
Erty	Posted - 2005.01.15 04:11:00 - [18] I've been playing since beta and I don't even trade in lowsec. You can do good trading in just highsec (I make 5-10 mil an hour but that's with a little capital). By the way you should join a corp. This is my signature.
Clutch Cargo	Posted - 2005.01.15 04:45:00 - [19] Someone made a post a few months back about how MMO's haved to be geared toward new players because if they are not then they ultimately lose money. I am relatively new to the game (4 mil SP) and I disagree with your post. This game is like everything else. I don't care if it's skiing or skydiving, you have to start sometime and no matter when you do you will temporarily be behind the curve, but you will catch up, at least close enough to be competitive. When it's time for me to dive into the deep end of the pool, I will. For now I stay in the shallow end and learn and do what I can to get myself ready for the deep end.
Cabadrin	Posted - 2005.01.15 07:22:00 - [20] One thing people seem confused about is the "solo player vs. multi player" aspect of EVE. The object of the game is to find like-minded individuals and play with them. Mine together, trade together, and, above all, defend together. Find a corporation you can work with and become a stronger, better group - together. ----------------------------------------------- Coalition Kill Board
Bawldeux IV	Posted - 2005.01.15 08:49:00 - [21] cookie?
KIAPieman	Posted - 2005.01.15 10:26:00 - [22] Why should people who have been playing for up to a year and a half yield an advantage to a new player??? i myself have paid a lot of money since july 03 to play this game and i expect to have an advantage over newer players as i have earned it. just cos you have sigened up doesnt mean that you should get it all to begin with, eve is meant to be hard. --------------------------------------------------------
MinorFreak	Posted - 2005.01.15 10:47:00 - [23] some attribute this to the foreign legion. who knows...let's paraphrase it anyways, Quote: There are old pilots, and there are bold pilots. But, there are no old, bold pilots ______________________ Best darned links ingame and out (backup)
Jared Kraste	Posted - 2005.01.15 11:11:00 - [24] Originally by: MutationZ I just got money together and bought an industrial ship and traded a bit. In 0.4 space a spaz (-10 rating) shoots and kills my ship and pod. What can I do about this? Zip, snip, nada. Oooh, I can wait 37 years till my skills train up while delivering public hairs to someone on Outtathesnipway3 moon 87. Well, I haven't been playing a month yet, but I've already managed to figure out that I'm likely to die if I head into 0.4 space. And if I did go there, I sure wouldn't be dumb enough to spend all my money on a ship and some cargo to take with me. By the way... "public hairs"?
Drasnik	Posted - 2005.01.15 11:27:00 - [25] I joined about a month ago and have found the game to be very newbie friendly.... Now sitting on 50mill isk and a handfull of cruisers. What I found most useful (and surprising) was how helpful veteran players were.... And yes - join a corp.
Daxit	Posted - 2005.01.15 11:32:00 - [26] on one level, i'm sorry you were sniped in low-sec. on another level of thought... i can't really feel all that sorry. I have a friend that is on day 11 of his 14-day trial, and he's gone through low-sec a lot in the last 2 days as he got bored mining and started hauling on player-based courier missions. he's made over 14mil isk in the last 2 days and he's lost 5 ships in the process. he shrugged off the ships and the isk he had to pay for a losing a couple pieces of cargo. oh yeah... he was also smart enough to realize on his own that you don't take a indy through low sec snipe-prone areas. So, basically, I fully agree with RollinDutchMasters' sig: Originally by: Sochin CCP has provided you with the tools you need to avoid crime. You're just too lazy/stupid to use them. good to see ya learning a lesson, albeit the hard way... but hopefully you'll grow from this and wise up against the challenges in the game, and overcome them.
Grey Night	Posted - 2005.01.15 12:48:00 - [27] As a new player, 1.3 million skill points and 3 months.. I have to completely disagree. The EVE system is the best yet of any MMORPG for new players. Go play any fantasy game using leveling. Now take out a 5th level fighter and face off with a 20th level fighter. There is NO WAY the 5th will win. It is completely impossible even if the 20th just stands there 90% of the time. Now take a sub million point player and have him face off with a 2 million skill point character. The sub million can beat the more experienced character, not likely but possible. Take 5 of the 5th leves above vs the 20th level and again they all lose. Take 5 low experience Eve and you have a fair shot at beating the more experienced Eve player. Now this is not to say there are no risks in the game but the game does have ways around them. If a new player does not pay attention of course he is gonna die. Just play smart and you will be fine.. ============================================ Between the light of day and the black of night, there is the Grey....
Frazzled	Posted - 2005.01.15 13:43:00 - [28] Havent read through the whole thread as I'm feeling a little lazy, but here's my two iskies anyway :) 1. All MMORPGS have the level grinding, even EVE, although its a less of a grind due to the training system. 2. Unfortunately there's not a lot of skill involved in EVE, the good playes have been in for a long enough time to be able to use the better modules and get the most bonus's out of their ships. 3. They also know how to utilise the game engine to their advantage, something a noobie just does not have and can only gain by experience (again, not skill). But this is the same in almost all MMORPGS as well. 4. If you want to play a game that involves skill, go find one that needs your hand eye coordination (twitch games I think they are called), which unfortunately due to lag can make that sort of game very frustrating! 5. If you have played Jumpgate you will understand what I mean as combat was also based on your ability to pilot your ship with a joystick, not just on knowing what icons to click at what time, and when to run :) 6. Please feel free to rip this apart, thats what the boards are for :) Frazz
Bhaal	Posted - 2005.01.15 13:51:00 - [29] CCP needs to do a better job protecting the newbies from asshats like the one that ganked you. They did not plan out the sec systems very well when it comes to trade routes & agent missions, even lvl 1 missions, etc... If you're going to play solo, you really need to stick to 0.5-1.0 space for the first 3 months or so to build up skills & capital. The game will be more fun straight away if you join a corp and not worry about sec systems too much. EVE is not very friendly to newbs, especially ones that play solo. CCP could have 2x the number of subscriptions by now if they would have handled griefers better than they have... For those who want to have fun the minute they join EVE, they need to join a corp and have others help them get started. Otherwise it's a long boring process to become anything other than cannon fodder for asshat griefers sniping at 0.4 gates near newbie systems... ------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!"
Kunni Cipka	Posted - 2005.01.15 16:43:00 - [30] Erm, new player here. I wont post on my real char since people would likely try taking some pot shots at me on my trade routes. I started my character 1 month and 14 days ago, I have well over 600M in my wallet, I have no skills other then those to fly an indy, and to equip it with cargo expanders. No skills do to the fact Im training all learning skills to lev 5 and all advanced learning to lev 4 which will take me about another 2 or so weeks. I run a trade route that takes me thru 6 sectors that are lower then 0.5, lowest beeing a 0.1. And in the time Ive been playing I only got blown up once but that was because I tried to run a blockade. So no, I dont think this game is too hard for the new player if he uses his brain and the tools provided in the game to avoid pirate traps.

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