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Sistar2
EVE Free Ship Shop Ltd.
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Posted - 2010.12.13 18:47:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Sistar2 on 13/12/2010 19:04:06
I am an alt character of Cista2 (confirmed below).
A new service is available in New Eden today. It is the EVE Free Ship Shop. It gives you ships you can use for free. ItÆs not a rental service, because you do not pay a rental fee. You borrow the ship from the shop so you will no longer need to worry about selling ships after you have used them. The biggest potential in the shop seems to lie with freighters and faction fitted ships, but any noob can also ask for a cruiser from us.
In short:
The Shop letÆs you borrow a ship for a deposit and return the ship to retrieve the same deposit any time you want.
But however does EFSS make money if the ships can be borrowed for free?
Answer: The deposit may be higher than the value of the ship. Although you can get the deposit back in full, we dispose of it while you are in posession of the ship. If the ship is not handed back we keep the deposit.
Business as per now:
1) We hardly have any ships in stock
...This doesnÆt matter though, because you can still use the shop in several ways:
2) Contact me and ask me to buy (and even equip) any ship, for instance a freighter, a faction-equipped Navy Raven or whatever. Any ship available in Jita can be bought instantly.
3) Or if you are already flying a ship and want to ôborrowö it, contact the shop to arrange for a EFSS guarantee on that ship. ThatÆs right, you can be guaranteed deposit back on any ship you already own. This means paying us a sum up front to get a buyback gurantee. Example: we agree that the ship is worth 100 mil isk. You pay EFSS 10 mil isk in deposit and any time you park the ship with us you get 110 mil isk.
4) If you have a ship and need isk you can pawn the ship for an agreed price that will be less than market value.
Introduction offer!
The first customers will have a deposit rate of 0 %. That means the deposit is currently simply the value of the ship.
Confidence aspect:
There is no issue with confidence. We do not keep your isk AND the ship, we hold only one of the two at any time. If you do not believe that I will eventually buy back your ship, you donÆt know me very well.
Crew
There were some people interested in working with this concept, e.g. Rykker Bow and Liberty Eternal. Please, anyone contact me again if you want to be part of the company. I am interested in having someone take it over along the way.
All correspondance should be mailed to Sistar2 or posted on this thread, all money transfers to Sistar2 or directly to the company wallet.
This is an experiment!
We start on the tiniest scale, and the company as such may fall apart within weeks. But we can trade ships back and forth and you do have my personal guarantee that the ship can be returned at the same price anytime.
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.12.13 18:48:00 -
[2]
Confirming that I have created this corporation for your entertainment and profit.
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"Signatures" chatroom / LLSE Stock Market |
Sistar2
EVE Free Ship Shop Ltd.
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Posted - 2010.12.13 18:49:00 -
[3]
List of available ships:
Any ship that is found in Jita can currently be sold to you at Jita sell price.
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Sistar2
EVE Free Ship Shop Ltd.
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Posted - 2010.12.13 18:50:00 -
[4]
List of crew and clients
In the interest of transparency, we will be listing clients here.
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Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2010.12.13 19:09:00 -
[5]
More than happy to help out with what could become an extremely cool business. And put me down for the first porsche 
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Ave Volta
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
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Posted - 2010.12.13 20:52:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Sistar2
4) If you have a ship and need isk you can pawn the ship for an agreed price that will be less than market value.
Will this value be above Jita buy?
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chown -R us:us /yourbase |
Sistar2
EVE Free Ship Shop Ltd.
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Posted - 2010.12.13 21:55:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Ave Volta
Will this value be above Jita buy?
Let's say for the moment that it will be at Jita buy price.
We might sell the ship and get you another when you want it. Unless it is a fitted ship, for which a price must be discussed.
Join the "EFSS" chatroom or the Signatures chatroom |
egola
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.12.13 21:55:00 -
[8]
Edited by: egola on 13/12/2010 21:58:41
Edited by: egola on 13/12/2010 21:56:09
do you guys have a general idea of the profitability of individual ships? i know the value is arbitrarily placed since its just the start of it, but how much cheaper would it buy, how much more expensive would you guys loan it off and for how long?
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Kei Darker
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Posted - 2010.12.13 22:11:00 -
[9]
I am very excited about this. I would like to be even partially involved. Expect an evemail from me sometime within the next 7 hours. :)
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.12.13 22:24:00 -
[10]
Originally by: egola
how much cheaper would it buy, how much more expensive would you guys loan it off and for how long?
The company earns money when ships DON'T come back. When we learn that some ships come back all the time after just a few days/weeks, we will put a harder deposit percentage on those types.
In addition, we will be getting stocks of some ships. For those we may keep a lower deposit level, even as low as Jita price. See the updated post above for some ships that are in stock now, those you can borrow for less than Jita price in the introduction phase.
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"Signatures" chatroom / LLSE Stock Market |
egola
Amarr
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Posted - 2010.12.13 22:32:00 -
[11]
Edited by: egola on 13/12/2010 22:34:47
Edited by: egola on 13/12/2010 22:33:10
Originally by: Cista2
Originally by: egola
how much cheaper would it buy, how much more expensive would you guys loan it off and for how long?
The company earns money when ships DON'T come back. When we learn that some ships come back all the time after just a few days/weeks, we will put a harder deposit percentage on those types.
In addition, we will be getting stocks of some ships. For those we may keep a lower deposit level, even as low as Jita price. See the updated post above for some ships that are in stock now, those you can borrow for less than Jita price in the introduction phase.
yea but one shouldn't base their business plan on people not returning it. it IS a collateralized loan of sorts
but in all honesty? i just realized the beauty of your system. NO ONE will return it because of one simple little factor: RIGS, its much cheaper to keep the ship if you rigged it rather then return it and pay more for rigs. although i don't see why people won't just buy it off market though, it'll be cheaper for them in the grand scheme of things.
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.12.13 22:58:00 -
[12]
Re: rigs
We will be leasing rigged and faction-fitted ships as we develop. In fact that is the best niche we may get - those ships you cannot sell on the market.
The leasing will always be free for the client if ships are returned - and we will base the business model on how many ship don't get returned.
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"Signatures" chatroom / LLSE Stock Market |
Richard Suvee
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Posted - 2010.12.13 23:52:00 -
[13]
My client who wishes to remain nameless in this thread is very interested in loaning a Charon class freighter on a regular basis. Is this being considered as one of the options?
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Kei Darker
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Posted - 2010.12.13 23:52:00 -
[14]
Will this be based in Jita only, or will ships be available in .... let's say Rens? Will you accept ship returns in Jita only? or perhaps within High-Sec same region? Perhaps this could be offered at a price? Sort of as a payment for hauling the ship back to base...
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Ramingo
Caldari
Payable on Death
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Posted - 2010.12.14 07:21:00 -
[15]
I'd be up for joining the crew if you want more help.
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DeliaPrescot
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Posted - 2010.12.14 08:09:00 -
[16]
I like the idea a lot but i see several problems.
You need a website for the dumb ones with the conditions to lease, explanations etc. and later on which ships are in stock at which places.
You need to advertise this a lot especially in missionrunner systems. Some very active marketing guru or group has to spread the word.
How you keep track on the leased ships/customers and how you are going to avoid being abused as cheap ship shop when prices fluctuate.
How you avoid being scammed if the business is going bigger and the company have some 100billions as deposit in the wallet.
I may be interested depending on your answers in setting up satellite stations in Rens, Dodixie and Tash-Murkon.
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Dezolf
Minmatar
DAX Action Stance
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Posted - 2010.12.14 10:08:00 -
[17]
I like the idea.
And also:
Originally by: Ramingo
I'd be up for joining the crew if you want more help.
This.
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BichHa Phan
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Posted - 2010.12.14 15:00:00 -
[18]
Evemail sent to Sistar2 expressing interest in joining the company.
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Joel McBeth
Caldari
Dreddit
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Posted - 2010.12.14 16:01:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Joel McBeth on 14/12/2010 16:01:25
I can see three main reasons why this service would benefit over just buying the ship yourself and reselling it yourself.
- Needing to borrow a ship quickly, this avoids the hassle of having to deal with the turnaround time and 0.01isking
- To protect yourself from losing money if the value of a ship decreases after purchasing it
- To avoid having the slow turn around and hassle of using contracts to sell ships with expensive rigs
These three reasons I feel are like grasping for straws at that.
The first reason is negated by the fact that if you lose the ship you lose all your deposit. So then you should put insurance on the borrowed ship to avoid your loses in that case. It's not cost effective to insure a ship for a short period of time, so you might as well buy it yourself and plan to use it until the insurance price is justified.
The second reason is negated because the price of the ship can increase and you'll lose money by getting a lower deposit back over selling it for a now higher price. If the sell price is still higher than the deposit you can abuse the service as a speculation protection.
If you have the foresight to know exactly how long you plan on keeping a ship, then that might be worth it. I never have. When I buy a ship I'm either going to blow it up in PvP or use it until it blows up in other ways or in some unknown amount of time upgrade to another ship when I have the skills.
I also don't know why Sistar2 would want to take the risk of having to deal with your failfit rigs. She'd either have to take them out, losing that money from exchanging the value of the ship and rigs (which will be destroyed) for the deposit, or spend a lot of time to get someone to buy via contracts a failfit.
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Lecherito
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Posted - 2010.12.14 17:49:00 -
[20]
Maybe I'm missing something obvious, but the only way this could feasibly work is to charge more than the cost of the ship as a deposit. Which begs the question, if a pilot has enough to purchase the ship and then some...why not just purchase the ship himself and avoid the "rental fees" ?
-L
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Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.14 17:54:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Lecherito
Which begs the question, if a pilot has enough to purchase the ship and then some...why not just purchase the ship himself and avoid the "rental fees" ?
-L
Say a pilot wants to borrow a freighter for a couple of days. the 10,000 ISK contract fee is much cheaper than the broker fees and sales tax of selling it when you are done. Unless of course the price has gone up.
Smaller ships this is a moot point though.
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Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2010.12.14 17:57:00 -
[22]
RL > EVE (usually) .. good luck, hope you figure out a way to hand this cool idea off without it dying. Have fun at work hohohoho
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Rykker Bow
Gallente
Cordite Industries
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Posted - 2010.12.14 18:04:00 -
[23]
congrats on the job Cista \o/
don't worry about EFSS, RL is way more important.
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Ave Volta
Red Frog Freight
Red-Frog
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Posted - 2010.12.14 18:26:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Sistar2
Originally by: Ave Volta
Will this value be above Jita buy?
Let's say for the moment that it will be at Jita buy price.
We might sell the ship and get you another when you want it. Unless it is a fitted ship, for which a price must be discussed.
In regards to offering a pawn at Jita buy, I could see a way to abuse this service. For example:
1. I put up a buy order at going rate in Jita, say 100m for said ship, and get it filled.
2. I pawn it to your service for the same price. (slight loss on brokers fee).
3. If ship market value stays the same or goes down, hold the ISK indefinitely.
4. If ship market value reaches say 120m, I get my ship back for 100m and make 20m profit.
5. Rinse and repeat on volatile ships.
Using your service this way you could effectively stop loss your position at your brokers fee, although upside potential is not limited.
In other words I could get a futures contract to buy a ship at current Jita buy at time contract was entered and fill it whenever I like, all while holding the liquid ISK for the small price of a brokers fee. Sounds pretty good to me! 
I suppose you could offer less than Jita buy for a ship, but why would anyone ever choose that?
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chown -R us:us /yourbase |
Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.12.14 18:39:00 -
[25]
I have updated the edit I made today.
As the edit says, "I am now making arrangements for the company to run with other people handling the ships, for a limited number of ship types. If this can work we are going ahead."
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"Signatures" chatroom / LLSE Stock Market |
Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.12.14 18:49:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Lecherito
if a pilot has enough to purchase the ship and then some...why not just purchase the ship himself and avoid the "rental fees" ?-L
There is no rental fee. The product we offer is a guarantee that you will not lose isk on your purchase.
Originally by: Lecherito
I suppose you could offer less than Jita buy for a ship, but why would anyone ever choose that?
Yes, ecentually the pawn price will be lower. The service we offer is a guarantee that you can get the same ship back for the same price, even if buy prices were to increase.
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"Signatures" chatroom / LLSE Stock Market |
Sistar2
EVE Free Ship Shop Ltd.
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Posted - 2010.12.15 10:04:00 -
[27]
I have now thought it over and talked with a few people, and this is how the shop will run:
I will be ceo in the best sense of the word. This means I will not be handling a single ship myself from now on. I will be employing people and they will be in charge of buying and sending out ships.
I have already been in contact with a bunch of people that want to work with the corp in different hubs. Soon we will start advertising the first couple of ship types on the Sell Forum. You are welcome to contact Sistar2 for employment, although we are starting with just a few we may need you soon.
PAYMENT is ONLY in the form of shares in the company, so you will need to have a real interest in the company to join. You can not take a cut on the ship traffic because if the same free ship goes in-and-out of shop 5 times in a week, where will our isk go then? As you can see on the share sale thread, people are willing to pay good money for the shares even before we have announced how dividends will be distributed.
Unless I do not know you well you will only be given shares after you have done some work!
What do we need?
Distributors: these are the main persons we have, and the ones that may later become directors and ceo. They contract the ships to clients. They must be members of the corp.
Ship providers: we are inventing a system where traders around EVE can have ships on "limbo" contract with us that we can then dispose of. Contact for info.
Pilots: pilots could be useful if we grow, especially freighter pilots and similar.
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Join the "EFSS" chatroom or the Signatures chatroom |
The Breadmaster
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Posted - 2010.12.15 10:34:00 -
[28]
Edited by: The Breadmaster on 15/12/2010 10:36:37
Player "purchases" a large number of ships from your shop.
Player then waits for the market to change...
Player dumps the ships that jumped in price onto the market and returns the
failures to you at virtually no loss.
How will you mitigate this?
Edit: atrocious(sp?) spelling
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Cista2
Hydra Investment Fund
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Posted - 2010.12.15 10:38:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Cista2 on 15/12/2010 10:46:42
Originally by: The Breadmaster
Player "purchases" a large number of ships from your shop.
Player then waits for the market to change...
Player dumps the ships that jumped in price onto the market and returns the
failures to you at virtually no loss.
How will you mititgate this?
The key word in your post is "waits". How long will you want to wait? Because the shop gets its profit from your player already on day 1, and that profit is then used to buy more ships, so thank you very much 
Also, over time our lease deposit will become higher than sell prices. If we feel we are being manipulated we can just increase the deposit percentage on that ship type(s).
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"Signatures" chatroom / LLSE Stock Market |
The Breadmaster
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Posted - 2010.12.15 10:48:00 -
[30]
Changes in certain ship prices can happen in at little as friday to monday...
As the weekend warriors will tend to deplete some stocks before the indy teams
can pounce on the new margins.... especially during expansion season.
If your prices were in the neighborhood of jita +20% then I don't see that it
would ever really be an issue.
Don't get me wrong I would happily lease/borrow/whatever a freighter from you
for a few days if I didn't have to worry about resale down the road. I'm more
thinking in terms of tech 2's and other "specialty" hulls.
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