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Tasardur
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Posted - 2010.12.15 00:08:00 -
[1]
I have seen this guys doing sleeper signatures with only dreads. How can it be posible? Anybody know how fit this dreads to make it posible?
http://deep-space-life.blogspot.com/2010/11/3-dreads-on-sleeper-signature.html
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Mr LaForge
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Posted - 2010.12.15 00:12:00 -
[2]
If I had to guess I'd say they go into siege mode and concentrate fire on 1 target at a time.
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Spectre Wraith
Darwin Inc.
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Posted - 2010.12.15 05:37:00 -
[3]
Also can't determine what class WH he's in without running a locator, but I'd hazard a guess he's likely in a Wolf-Rayet. Silly armor resists with c5-c6 wolfs.
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.12.15 05:41:00 -
[4]
sniper dreads!
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Capt Wulfrunian
Caldari
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Posted - 2010.12.15 10:52:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Chainsaw Plankton sniper dreads!
Sniper Dreads?? in my Eve...
impossible
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Daneel Trevize
Black Viper Nomads
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Posted - 2010.12.15 11:30:00 -
[6]
IIRC sieged dreads don't hit sleepers for ****, unless you put tons of webs on them. We use tackling daredevils + guardians and then it's at least a couple of 90% webs per BS to drop them fast. |
Tasardur
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Posted - 2010.12.15 18:36:00 -
[7]
It's a C6. And they were just 3 dreads, no logistics, no webs, no painters... how they do that?
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Daneel Trevize
Black Viper Nomads
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Posted - 2010.12.15 19:01:00 -
[8]
You sure the rest didn't run off and reship if you came in through a new sig? The sieged dreads couldn't leave but everyone else might have gone and got cloaky/deepsafe. |
Shizo Lang
Caldari Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2010.12.15 20:39:00 -
[9]
if its a c6 magnetar then theres a way i gues
something to do with remote tracking disruption or so to get neg tracking . meaning u hit everything 100% with 100% dmg
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.12.15 21:04:00 -
[10]
Originally by: ****o Lang if its a c6 magnetar then theres a way i gues
something to do with remote tracking disruption or so to get neg tracking . meaning u hit everything 100% with 100% dmg
a) that got nerfed b) can't td a dread in seige c) lolwat d) dreads do crap damage out of seige
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Vilgan Mazran
Explosive Decompression.
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Posted - 2010.12.16 03:34:00 -
[11]
There's a bug with sleeper pathing that lets you do this as long as you can tank the rats. It's been reported multiple times and CCP has done jack all about it. It's very popular with the russians and has been discussed multiple times on the .ru forums. There hasn't been a 70 page thread on scrapheap or inflammatory articles posted about it on mmorpg.com though, so CCP hasn't seen fit to do anything about it. Feel free to start aforementioned outraged threads though and maybe they'll finally fix it.
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Incartes
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Posted - 2010.12.17 19:16:00 -
[12]
So how does it work and why arnt they doing anything about it?
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Anthal
The Warp Squad Deadly Unknown
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Posted - 2010.12.17 22:45:00 -
[13]
Note how close the player is from the dreads, then note how close the player is from the sleepers. Our rag tag group ran into two dreads doing something very similar.
The "trick" is to warp in at the edge of the grid, which is usually 150-250km from the sleepers. They will never get close to you, and rubber band back to their spawn point after some time. Because they are always moving in a straight line, usually with their MWD on, it isn't difficult for sniper dreads to hit them, and take them down.
If you find people doing this, warp a short range fleet right on top of them. Since they are setup to shoot targets at 200km, and not 5km, it should be an easy KM. That's IF you can get a sizable fleet in to take them out in <15m while they are in siege.
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Swaffer
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Posted - 2011.01.18 09:11:00 -
[14]
it is possible to kill guardians with a dread and not cheating, only certain dread class works, we clear cap spawns and salvage in about 1.5 hours max.
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headbomb
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Posted - 2011.01.18 09:13:00 -
[15]
it is possible to kill guardians with a dread and not cheating, only certain dread class works, we clear cap spawns and salvage in about 1.5 hours max.
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Pod Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.18 11:22:00 -
[16]
Hey lol looks like a nice cash cow.
Finally someone found a way how to use his Dread skills these days lol
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Pod Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.18 11:25:00 -
[17]
Originally by: headbomb it is possible to kill guardians with a dread and not cheating, only certain dread class works, we clear cap spawns and salvage in about 1.5 hours max.
hmm Don't tell me you have found a way how to make phoenix usefull or using a sentry Moros ?
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Mr BeanCounter
United Miners Inc. Wrath.
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Posted - 2011.01.18 12:15:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Mr BeanCounter on 18/01/2011 12:20:23 its definately relevant that this system is a pulsar bonus, as told by the blue iridescent color of the system
also as this pics illustrate, the person running this anoms has actually escalated to the max potential of 28 guardian bs, indicating he has warped also two carriers into it previous to warping in the dreads...
what troubles me is the wreck and sleeper combination in these shots doesent match any class 5 or 6 site available. the closest match (which is quite close) being a c6 site called "Strange Energy Readings", where the 5 cruiser keepers and 2 battleship keepers are present in the first wave, consistant with the pictures. however, this wave should also contain 5 frigate sleepers, and it doesent leading me to believe he had killed and salvaged them the previous day, and now returns on day number two, to repeat his capital escalations on the same site, sans frigates. (works)
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Dabusiness
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Posted - 2011.01.18 13:20:00 -
[19]
It WAS possible to kill Guardians with Dreads. I used to warp in a carrier 1st....wait for them to settle in at their correct range and then warp 1st Moros in.
However in my wormhole (c5 wolf rayet)..they need to be target painted and webbed and the dreads need tracking mods. I used the carrier purely to spew out Berserker web drones. with a single Moros it then takes c.3-4 mins to kill a guardian. Once part of the spawn is cleared i bring the 2nd Moros in and 2 Moros's can kill a guardian in under 90 secs and then bring in 2nd carrier.
That WAS the case.....CCP have now screwed that completely. Dreads will now be none functional in W-space with the guardians now neuting. You simply cannot get enough cap on a dread for it to survive 12-14 guardians neuting it. As a Dread in siege can't receive cap transfer...you also can't help it.....so endeth the guardian demolition days.
If the reporting neuting abilities of Sleepers is correct (1.5x normal neut) then in some WH types (not Magnetar - due to damage bonus) it will take a Carrier fleet with Cap transfer to do sites and that still won't max the spawn. If u warp if 3 carriers and then warp in a dread, the dread doesn't not spawn additional guardians.
At present there appears to be no pattern as to who or how many guardians will neut a particular target. in some instances i have seen the neuting shared across ships...in others i've seen 1 ship targeted for neuting the whole time even though damage targeting switched.
It is this element that means from my calculations.....to be safe the 1st time i test a triple carrier fleet...we will need triple cap transfer on each ship, in case 1 ship gets targeted by all 14 guardians.
I have to multi carrier in a Wolf rayet as with no damage bonuses it takes 20mins to kill 1 guardian with 1 carrier.
I don't see why CCP chose this moment to switch something on that hasn't worked for 2 years..........and to do it on the quiet. I only found out from a friend who was fiddling on sisi and then there was 1 post about it on Test server feedback. Then it casually gets dropped into the patch notes as if its nothing significant!! My mates chimera got neuted to zero in 15mins on Sisi....
I expect to see some casualties to these changes and T3 prices will rise.... even higher than they already have...
rant over :-)
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Mr BeanCounter
United Miners Inc. Wrath.
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Posted - 2011.01.18 13:32:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Dabusiness It WAS possible to kill Guardians with Dreads. I used to warp in a carrier 1st....wait for them to settle in at their correct range and then warp 1st Moros in.
However in my wormhole (c5 wolf rayet)..they need to be target painted and webbed and the dreads need tracking mods. I used the carrier purely to spew out Berserker web drones. with a single Moros it then takes c.3-4 mins to kill a guardian. Once part of the spawn is cleared i bring the 2nd Moros in and 2 Moros's can kill a guardian in under 90 secs and then bring in 2nd carrier.
That WAS the case.....CCP have now screwed that completely. Dreads will now be none functional in W-space with the guardians now neuting. You simply cannot get enough cap on a dread for it to survive 12-14 guardians neuting it. As a Dread in siege can't receive cap transfer...you also can't help it.....so endeth the guardian demolition days.
If the reporting neuting abilities of Sleepers is correct (1.5x normal neut) then in some WH types (not Magnetar - due to damage bonus) it will take a Carrier fleet with Cap transfer to do sites and that still won't max the spawn. If u warp if 3 carriers and then warp in a dread, the dread doesn't not spawn additional guardians.
At present there appears to be no pattern as to who or how many guardians will neut a particular target. in some instances i have seen the neuting shared across ships...in others i've seen 1 ship targeted for neuting the whole time even though damage targeting switched.
It is this element that means from my calculations.....to be safe the 1st time i test a triple carrier fleet...we will need triple cap transfer on each ship, in case 1 ship gets targeted by all 14 guardians.
I have to multi carrier in a Wolf rayet as with no damage bonuses it takes 20mins to kill 1 guardian with 1 carrier.
I don't see why CCP chose this moment to switch something on that hasn't worked for 2 years..........and to do it on the quiet. I only found out from a friend who was fiddling on sisi and then there was 1 post about it on Test server feedback. Then it casually gets dropped into the patch notes as if its nothing significant!! My mates chimera got neuted to zero in 15mins on Sisi....
I expect to see some casualties to these changes and T3 prices will rise.... even higher than they already have...
rant over :-)
thats fine, but its not relevant to this discussion, which is about the mechanic of using sniper dreads at ranges that exceed sleeper neut range
this pilot (pilots) was taking advantage of the fact that guardian bs will never make it the full 250km to their target, so sniping dreads would still be viable and workable option after the patch, so long as this mechanic is correctly reported
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Dabusiness
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Posted - 2011.01.18 13:52:00 -
[21]
Then it depends on the dread....I know my Moros' will suck at sniping and I won't be able to use web drones to slow the guardians down to aid hitting them. the fact that its a Pulsar WH in the pics is a massive help with the increased sig making them easier to hit and therefore take more damage.
Like everything, certain setups in certain wormhole types just work....but won't work in others.
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Mr BeanCounter
United Miners Inc. Wrath.
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Posted - 2011.01.18 14:01:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Mr BeanCounter on 18/01/2011 14:06:13
Originally by: Dabusiness Then it depends on the dread....I know my Moros' will suck at sniping and I won't be able to use web drones to slow the guardians down to aid hitting them. the fact that its a Pulsar WH in the pics is a massive help with the increased sig making them easier to hit and therefore take more damage.
Like everything, certain setups in certain wormhole types just work....but won't work in others.
as stated previous you wont need to web a target when its 200km from you, burning full speed with mwd directly towards you
tbh i doubt even tracking mods would be needed
also, sleepers arent affected by pulsar system's sig bonus
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Dabusiness
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Posted - 2011.01.18 14:06:00 -
[23]
i guess the increased sig from MWD and Pulsar bonus must be pretty sweet..
As this is untested by me....i assume if u use a Zephr to make a BM 250km from warp in point and then warp to the zeph that the sleepers still appear at the warp in point?
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Kacer Xenro
Swords Horses and Heavy Metal
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Posted - 2011.01.18 16:31:00 -
[24]
Just use a proper fleet setup?
3 baddons, 1 nid, 1 guardian, 1 Rapier, 1 moros and another carrier and dread
^ clears c5 sites in about 50 minutes, and we're talking about all 4 reinforcement waves from warping in caps.
- warp the nid in first, then the baddons and guardians - set up capchains so the baddons dont cap out, then when there's 3 battleships left from the spawn triggered by the nid -warp in the moros and rapier, **** ensues.
i remember the moros pilot getting 40k hits on the sleepers, and taking down most of the battleships in less than 10 shots.
i dont know how this setup works after the sleeper neut fix though
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Anhenka
Minmatar Bite me inc. Narwhals Ate My Duck
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Posted - 2011.01.18 17:08:00 -
[25]
OP, the answer is Sig radius. Certain WH's (Pulsars) Have system effects that increase everyones (including sleepers) Sig radius by a ridiculous amount. The Same effect also double the max loxking range. So yes, they are using sniper dreads, because they can lock at 400km, and all the sleepers have doubled signiature radius that allows the dreads to hit them with ease.
Beam fit Revelation can do 2k damage out to 300km, combined with the sig increase you could easily alpha even frigs.
C5 is 85% sig increase and 85% lock range bonus, C6 is 100% increase
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Xituqtra
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Posted - 2011.01.18 17:28:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Anhenka
Beam fit Revelation can do 2k damage out to 300km, combined with the sig increase you could easily alpha even frigs.
lock range got a 250 km hard limit
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Loraine Gess
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Posted - 2011.01.18 18:28:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Anhenka OP, the answer is Sig radius. Certain WH's (Pulsars) Have system effects that increase everyones (including sleepers) Sig radius by a ridiculous amount. The Same effect also double the max loxking range. So yes, they are using sniper dreads, because they can lock at 400km, and all the sleepers have doubled signiature radius that allows the dreads to hit them with ease.
Beam fit Revelation can do 2k damage out to 300km, combined with the sig increase you could easily alpha even frigs.
C5 is 85% sig increase and 85% lock range bonus, C6 is 100% increase
System effects don't effect sleepers...
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Rip Minner
Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.19 06:34:00 -
[28]
Well someone had to find some kind of use for Dreads now that the SC's have more or less taken there jobs.
Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
Floydd Heywood
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Posted - 2011.01.19 10:26:00 -
[29]
@Dabusiness: You seem to be experienced in C5 so maybe you can help me assess whether my plans are valid... I plan to move into a C5 with my corp and we haven't done C5s before (yeah, bad time to start with the sleeper neut coming).
What we intend to do is use one carrier (Archon) as anchor in a small armor-tanking fleet. It has three Capital RRs and is supposed to do all the repping. As a safeguard against the neuting we bring in a Guardian logistics fitted with only Cap Transfers. The Archon has one large energy transfer array dedicated to the Guardian and a capital ETA to refill other drained ships as needed.
We will also have a command ship with maximum bonus for armored warfare to support repping and armor amounts.
Other ships will be just additional damage with (hopefully) enough buffer to survive the sleeper's alpha strike and good resists to have enough defense with the three Capital RRs on them. I aimed for 60k+ Armor EHP and 5500+ defense here (do you think this is enough?).
I was quite sure this should be safe until I read this:
Quote: I have to multi carrier in a Wolf rayet as with no damage bonuses it takes 20mins to kill 1 guardian with 1 carrier.
I assume your carrier does at least 1000 DPS, maybe close to 1500? We won't be in a wolf-rayet, but that still seems like a long time for a single sleeper BS. My setup was planned such that the carrier keeps the subcaps alive but only has about 3400 defense itself. I thought that and the 1.4m hitpoint buffer would be enough to survive until the sleeper wave has been decimated to the point where the incoming damage is below that threshold.
We will be fielding about 3000 DPS, maybe 5000 if everyone is present. Do you think this can kill the guardians fast enough for the carrier to survive the intial onslaught? Note that we will have "only" one capital escalation wave.
Also, who will get most of the aggro? The repping carrier? The energy-transferring Guardian? Would it be possible to draw most of the aggro to a battleship using some ECMs?
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Swidgen
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Posted - 2011.01.19 21:51:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Loraine Gess System effects don't effect sleepers...
You sure about that? In Wolf-Rayet systems it sure seems like the sleepers get the armor bonus along with the players. |
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