| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN
Gallente
   |
Posted - 2010.12.15 04:49:00 -
[1]
Perhaps you guys can help me figure this out.
Preface:
I am an Enyo pilot and do a lot of solo / gang work in my enyo successfully and on a regular basis.
I have near perfect skills to fly either the Enyo or Ishkur.
Unfortunately, nearly every time I fit and fly a cookie cutter Ishkur (blasters + drones), I get my but handed to me.
I also tend to get my ass handed to me when I try to fit and fly a speed Rail Ishkur (Fit it like you should fit a jag).
In comparison I very rarely loose a 1v1 against assult frigs, Destroyers, or solo cruisers in my Enyo.
What am I doing wrong? or what am I not seeing? Everyone says that the Enyo sucks, but its ability to run an active rep tank, and solid dps (230-250 with void) win me through engagements time and time again. And as a heavy tackle, my buddies havent seen a better replacement.
So why do people insist on trying to fit their Ishkurs like Enyos and try to make them fill that role of up close brawler? Your drones are vulnerable to being popped. I Havent found that the web that 3rd midslot offers to be a great tipper when compared to the tracking bonus you can pull off the enyo.
It feels like I'm missing something.
Any advice on this would be appreciated.
|
Azelor Delaria
Caldari
Unfortunate Soldiers
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 05:27:00 -
[2]
While the Ishkur is a drone platform (at least in terms of gaining drone space per level of Assault Frigates), it has no actual drone bonuses. The drones could do some damage, but your main damage comes from blasters, just like an Enyo. I would recommend running some ECM drones to screw with people.
|
Baneken
Gallente
School of the Unseen
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 05:42:00 -
[3]
enyo and ishkur have same bonuses for optimal range and damage difference is that ishkur gets 2nd set of light drones at lvl V and enyo gets a hefty tracking bonus.
Hence ishkur would do best with rails and a set of light ECM's or upclose with a set of ECM drones... 
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
King Gore
The Church of Sentcha
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 06:07:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Baneken
enyo and ishkur have same bonuses for optimal range and damage difference is that ishkur gets 2nd set of light drones at lvl V and enyo gets a hefty tracking bonus.
Hence ishkur would do best with rails and a set of light ECM's or upclose with a set of ECM drones...
On paper the Ishkur looks great with rails. I know for a fact that it die's horribly (in a fire I might add) when put 1v1 against a blaster Iskur.
-
#DEVOUR# Scream for me. I'll die for you #DEVOUR# Scream for me. I'll die for you #DEVOUR# |
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 06:16:00 -
[5]
King Gore:
And thats the issue I'm talking about. Rail ishkurs die horribly to Blaster Ishkurs, and I pawn Blaster Ishkurs with my Enyo.
Everything that can kill my enyo also kills my Ishkurs. Whats worse, is that a lot of the situations my Enyo survives would destroy my Ishkur.
With an Ishkur you have to fit resistance rigs if you want to plug your holes which kills any hope of a speed tank. (Armor rigs slowing down frig speed, which usually = dead frig to anything faster than it, or upping missile/drone damage from larger ships). The DPS is sub par (You can get a 200+ dps Ishkur, but you have to give up one of your low slots for the Mag Stab, hurting your tank). With dps at or sub 180 dps you can't take on cruisers or hard tanked frigs who know to go straight for you to get the kill (and ignore drones).
The only thing I see in my head that the Ishkur can do better than the Enyo is combat against ranged pilots. Such as drammy's / Cepters, and Jag like pilots, Where your droneses might push them off you long enough to warp out. Enyo can tank most "Sniper" fits, Ishkur has a really hard time doing it (see the bit about drop in speed to plug holes) or to kite cruisers with a point and let drone DPS help the fleet.
I('m thinking its just the "Idea" of having those 5 drones with 4 in reserve that everyone is in love with, and not the actual capability of the ship itself.
|
ARES 003
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 06:48:00 -
[6]
Yup the Enyo is wicked and underrated.
Why don't you share your fit with us? I'm curious how you've had success against cruisers with it when anyone who knows what they're doing will 'usually' kill any AF with a cruiser.
Anyway if it's working for you just stick with it and just like **** the Ishkur.
|
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 07:13:00 -
[7]
[Enyo, Standard]
Small Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Reactive Membrane II
Reactive Plating II
1MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Small Nosferatu II
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Hobgoblin II x1
It relies on the active tank and angular/speed to stay alive. She is just outside of cap stablility (4min+) with everything running which makes the Nos an effective Neut when going full bore. Fly manual against ships with webs, have Null, Void, and Fac Antimater to deal with specific targets. There is an EM hole (62%) but you can get under harbies/Mallers easily. Most amar frigs are packing missiles or dont do enough DPS to crack the tank.
Ships to avoid: 180mm Ruppies/hurricanes, any ship packing more than 1 web, more than 1 neut, or more than one web and Neut. But that kills frigs anyway and is common sense.
You have to weed out light drones on drone boats before going into web/disrupt range.
She still has her speed, and DPS is sitting at 237 with +3% implants.
|
ARES 003
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 07:18:00 -
[8]
Nice. I guess the nos helps you to stay in the fight longer eh.
keep it up then d00d!
|
Zach Donnell
Ghost-Busters
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 07:41:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Lemming EVERADIO'FAN
[Enyo, Standard]
Small Armor Repairer II
Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II
Energized Reactive Membrane II
Reactive Plating II
1MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Light Ion Blaster II, Void S
Small Nosferatu II
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
Hobgoblin II x1
She still has her speed, and DPS is sitting at 237 with +3% implants.
Speed - lol.
I'd be curious to see these battles you are getting in with that fit. It is vulnerable to being out tracked by competent jags drams etc.
Not to mention any web AB AF can get away from you in an enyo, whereas an ishkur has a web. It's why I only run MWD + scram fits on my enyo.
Ishkur has too crappy of agility to run mwd + rail fits and kill anything competent, thus it becomes a brawler by nature. |
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 07:53:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Lemming EVERADIO''FAN on 15/12/2010 07:56:55
Most targets that web you want to stay within web range. Wolves charge in, and by the time they realize they are being broken, you overheat the AB, and you can kill them in falloff. The DPS is quick enough to chew through em before they realize that you have the stronger tank. And if they do warp off, you havent lost a ship. As I said, against a Web, you fly manual, not to dictate range, but to dictate angular.
The ship tanks most Jag and Dramiel pilots that shoot at range (giving you more than enough time to call in backup). Fly right to get some angular and you stay up by pulsing your repper.
-The falloff on the Jag/Dramiel are what keep you alive when they are fighting at range. And if they come in close enough, null will usually hit em enough to push em back off ya. Still have yet to be killed by a dram or Jaguar in this fit.
Artillery Thrashers on the other hand, are another story. I've been popped by 1. The others couldn't break me.
It survives the encounter where the Ishkur Doesnt (Arty Jag or Dramiel will shoot out your drones).
Rail fits still don't do enough DPS to crack it. And propper rail fits are truly rare.
And what I meant by speed is that she is still sitting at roughly 875 m/s, instead of the abysmal 750 that armor rigged enyos run. Most wolves plug their explosive hole with a rig, dropping their speed down to 760-780. With a single web your speed is still 350 m/s allowing you to stay within blaster range for another 600-800 damage (with overheat) when your winning the fight. I've popped a couple with my drone before they could leave my scram range.
|
Zach Donnell
Ghost-Busters
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 08:10:00 -
[11]
Don't get me wrong, I love the enyo.
But Two things,
1) you danced around the points I made.
2) I still would like to see some battle reports or a killboard for your pvp character to better understand the context you are making these claims in. |
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 08:22:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Zach Donnell
Don't get me wrong, I love the enyo.
But Two things,
1) you danced around the points I made.
2) I still would like to see some battle reports or a killboard for your pvp character to better understand the context you are making these claims in.
I addressed you points.
1) Dramiel situation: Competent Dram pilots cannot break its tank without going into Null/Nos Range. Most Dram pilots are MWD fit and so do not do this. Gun tracking on Faction AM will usually 1 or 2 shot the drones they send at you (which is the piece of the DPS needed to kill you. Mostly Warrior II's, and your Explosive hole is at 70%).
The tracking on an Enyo with standard or Faction ammo is .58 with a 3% implant. AB fit Drams usually bugger out real fast when they realize their getting hit.
2) Artillery Fits: Fly manual to get angular down a bit, they cannot break the tank.
Both situations require backup to get you out of the situation (which you have time for). But if your in an Ishkur, your more likely to be killed by those ships than the enyo.
Against other assult frigs: They plug their holes with armor rigs, dropping their speed below yours. If they didn't plug their holes your DPS will kill them quickly if they get up close and personal. I have not lost to a solo assult frig. Its not that the ship is "Super Fast" But rather faster than the other ships that have the DPS to kill it.
Webs: You have to fly manualand fly right to survive/win the engagement. This is a case of player skill over character skill points sort of thing. I've lot a lost of enyo's learning this lesson. Most of the time if they have a web they want to be in the Enyo's kill range.
Using an Alt character to post Main's KB defeats the purpose of using an alt. Send me an eve-mail in game and Ill link you my primary kill board tommorow. ^.^
|
Zach Donnell
Ghost-Busters
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 08:43:00 -
[13]
Mail sent.
and...
Originally by: Lemming EVERADIO'FAN
I have not lost to a solo assult frig.
Let's see what we can do about that :) |
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 08:46:00 -
[14]
Well set something up on the test server. ^.^
|
Hex'Caliber
Gallente
Massively Mob
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 10:58:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Hex''Caliber on 15/12/2010 11:04:15
The love of the rail ishkur by pilot's dates back to pre drone nerf, before they added drone bandwidth and removed the ability to field med drones. Being reduced to light drones hurt its dps potential tremendously, but older pilots who no longer fly it, throw it out as the better Gallente af when new pilots ask for advice.
Regards HexCaliber
Mankinds greatest Strength and greatest weakness is HOPE
|
Lugalzagezi666
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 11:07:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Lemming EVERADIO'FAN
...
I like you, you made me lol after i woke up. Keep going on. 
|
Rashmika Clavain
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 11:21:00 -
[17]
I love my little Enyo, and yes I think it is vastly underated.
4x Light Ion Blaster II
1x Small Diminishing Power System Drain I
1x Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
1x Warp Scrambler II
1x Adaptive Nano Plating II
1x Damage Control II
1x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II
1x Small Armor Repairer II
1x Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I
1x Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I
[html]http://skilltrainingcomplete.com/users/flair/1417.html[/html] |
TV Evangelist
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 11:25:00 -
[18]
Edited by: TV Evangelist on 15/12/2010 11:25:57
Like someone pointed out, the Ishkur used to be omfgwin back when you could field 2 med,3 light drones and pre-nerf nos. These days the only advantage it has over the enyo is the extra midslot, but as you have discovered the raw dps and tank of the enyo usually wins out. Now please, stop educating the unwashed masses and enjoy your enyo.
|
Lugalzagezi666
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 11:33:00 -
[19]
Only thing enyo can win is 2nd place in "worst assault ship in eve" contest.
|
Darius Brinn
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 11:44:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Darius Brinn on 15/12/2010 11:44:48
Edited by: Darius Brinn on 15/12/2010 11:44:26
I frequently fly my Ishkur and I like it a lot. But I admit that this thread has sparked my interest in the Enyo.
Actually, I just decided that I would like to try other blaster frigate hulls and bought me a Taranis and a Navy Comet.
How would an Enyo do, say, compared to a Navy Comet? I expect they are suited for similar situations.
|
Anyura
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 13:15:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Only thing enyo can win is 2nd place in "worst assault ship in eve" contest.
My Retribution cries itself to sleep at nights. =(
|
Tony SoXai
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 20:08:00 -
[22]
Lemming, did you ever try Turelle's Ishkur?
Goes something like this if I can recall.
[Ishkur, Tishkur]
Small Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Reactive Plating II
1MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II
Tracking Disruptor II
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Nosferatu II
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
Warrior II x5
It's a pretty wicked setup.
|
RnDr Brain
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 20:45:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Azelor Delaria
The drones could do some damage, but your main damage comes from blasters, just like an Enyo.
Mr. your drone skills sux, if u want to fly ishkur, u should have all needed drone skills at 5, than your drone do almost half of DPS.
|
oldmanst4r
Minmatar
oldmanst4r's Corporation
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 21:06:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Tony SoXai
Lemming, did you ever try Turelle's Ishkur?
Goes something like this if I can recall.
[Ishkur, Tishkur]
Small Armor Repairer II
Damage Control II
Reactive Plating II
1MN Afterburner II
Warp Scrambler II
Tracking Disruptor II
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S
Small Nosferatu II
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
Small Capacitor Control Circuit I
Warrior II x5
It's a pretty wicked setup.
Dis is doing it right.
Originally by: CCP Shadow
*snip* Castration successful. Shadow.
|
Lugalzagezi666
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 21:12:00 -
[25]
Yes, cccs are mandatory on all pvp ships.
|
oldmanst4r
Minmatar
oldmanst4r's Corporation
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 21:13:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Yes, cccs are mandatory on all pvp ships.
Didn't notice those, well everything else is right.
Originally by: CCP Shadow
*snip* Castration successful. Shadow.
|
Tony SoXai
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 21:36:00 -
[27]
Originally by: oldmanst4r
Originally by: Lugalzagezi666
Yes, cccs are mandatory on all pvp ships.
Didn't notice those, well everything else is right.
CCCs help a lot of frigate immensely. Shows what you know.
|
Lugalzagezi666
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 21:38:00 -
[28]
Wrong, by the time you start capping out fight will be over. Especially with ishkur that has 250-300dps. And when theres neut involved, its absolutely useless.
|
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 21:41:00 -
[29]
Im seeing a lot of DCU's on these fits.
If you want your Enyo to hold together I would suggest throwing it out in favor of an ENAM.
"WHAT?!" - Yeah you heard me, throw you DCU out. There have been only 3 frig fights I've been in where both ships were in strucutre and the pilots were using their hulls to stay alive. I won one of those fights becuase the Buffer WAS the tank (Destroyer VS Frig), lost the other fight just because DPS was higher than mine, and won the third fight without having a DCU on my boat.
Every other fight, if I've gone into structure, DCU or NO DCU, my ship was dead - period. If you going to run a small armor repper, run the repper and make that WORK rather than just be there. If your buffer fitting a fig with a DCU, that means your hurting your tank.
use your low slots to make your armor tank stronger, or fit a plate with the DCU if your gonna buffer fit it. Your Resistances are in your armor anyway, not your hull.
|
Zach Donnell
Ghost-Busters
|
Posted - 2010.12.15 21:43:00 -
[30]
Still waiting for that kb link m8 |
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |