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Enyo VS Ishkur - Need opinions to help Trying and understand...

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Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.15 04:49:00 - [1] Perhaps you guys can help me figure this out. Preface: I am an Enyo pilot and do a lot of solo / gang work in my enyo successfully and on a regular basis. I have near perfect skills to fly either the Enyo or Ishkur. Unfortunately, nearly every time I fit and fly a cookie cutter Ishkur (blasters + drones), I get my but handed to me. I also tend to get my ass handed to me when I try to fit and fly a speed Rail Ishkur (Fit it like you should fit a jag). In comparison I very rarely loose a 1v1 against assult frigs, Destroyers, or solo cruisers in my Enyo. What am I doing wrong? or what am I not seeing? Everyone says that the Enyo sucks, but its ability to run an active rep tank, and solid dps (230-250 with void) win me through engagements time and time again. And as a heavy tackle, my buddies havent seen a better replacement. So why do people insist on trying to fit their Ishkurs like Enyos and try to make them fill that role of up close brawler? Your drones are vulnerable to being popped. I Havent found that the web that 3rd midslot offers to be a great tipper when compared to the tracking bonus you can pull off the enyo. It feels like I'm missing something. Any advice on this would be appreciated.
Azelor Delaria Caldari Unfortunate Soldiers	Posted - 2010.12.15 05:27:00 - [2] While the Ishkur is a drone platform (at least in terms of gaining drone space per level of Assault Frigates), it has no actual drone bonuses. The drones could do some damage, but your main damage comes from blasters, just like an Enyo. I would recommend running some ECM drones to screw with people.
Baneken Gallente School of the Unseen	Posted - 2010.12.15 05:42:00 - [3] enyo and ishkur have same bonuses for optimal range and damage difference is that ishkur gets 2nd set of light drones at lvl V and enyo gets a hefty tracking bonus. Hence ishkur would do best with rails and a set of light ECM's or upclose with a set of ECM drones... http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
King Gore The Church of Sentcha	Posted - 2010.12.15 06:07:00 - [4] Originally by: Baneken enyo and ishkur have same bonuses for optimal range and damage difference is that ishkur gets 2nd set of light drones at lvl V and enyo gets a hefty tracking bonus. Hence ishkur would do best with rails and a set of light ECM's or upclose with a set of ECM drones... On paper the Ishkur looks great with rails. I know for a fact that it die's horribly (in a fire I might add) when put 1v1 against a blaster Iskur. - #DEVOUR# Scream for me. I'll die for you #DEVOUR# Scream for me. I'll die for you #DEVOUR#
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.15 06:16:00 - [5] King Gore: And thats the issue I'm talking about. Rail ishkurs die horribly to Blaster Ishkurs, and I pawn Blaster Ishkurs with my Enyo. Everything that can kill my enyo also kills my Ishkurs. Whats worse, is that a lot of the situations my Enyo survives would destroy my Ishkur. With an Ishkur you have to fit resistance rigs if you want to plug your holes which kills any hope of a speed tank. (Armor rigs slowing down frig speed, which usually = dead frig to anything faster than it, or upping missile/drone damage from larger ships). The DPS is sub par (You can get a 200+ dps Ishkur, but you have to give up one of your low slots for the Mag Stab, hurting your tank). With dps at or sub 180 dps you can't take on cruisers or hard tanked frigs who know to go straight for you to get the kill (and ignore drones). The only thing I see in my head that the Ishkur can do better than the Enyo is combat against ranged pilots. Such as drammy's / Cepters, and Jag like pilots, Where your droneses might push them off you long enough to warp out. Enyo can tank most "Sniper" fits, Ishkur has a really hard time doing it (see the bit about drop in speed to plug holes) or to kite cruisers with a point and let drone DPS help the fleet. I('m thinking its just the "Idea" of having those 5 drones with 4 in reserve that everyone is in love with, and not the actual capability of the ship itself.
ARES 003	Posted - 2010.12.15 06:48:00 - [6] Yup the Enyo is wicked and underrated. Why don't you share your fit with us? I'm curious how you've had success against cruisers with it when anyone who knows what they're doing will 'usually' kill any AF with a cruiser. Anyway if it's working for you just stick with it and just like **** the Ishkur.
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.15 07:13:00 - [7] [Enyo, Standard] Small Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Reactive Membrane II Reactive Plating II 1MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II Light Ion Blaster II, Void S Light Ion Blaster II, Void S Light Ion Blaster II, Void S Light Ion Blaster II, Void S Small Nosferatu II Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I Hobgoblin II x1 It relies on the active tank and angular/speed to stay alive. She is just outside of cap stablility (4min+) with everything running which makes the Nos an effective Neut when going full bore. Fly manual against ships with webs, have Null, Void, and Fac Antimater to deal with specific targets. There is an EM hole (62%) but you can get under harbies/Mallers easily. Most amar frigs are packing missiles or dont do enough DPS to crack the tank. Ships to avoid: 180mm Ruppies/hurricanes, any ship packing more than 1 web, more than 1 neut, or more than one web and Neut. But that kills frigs anyway and is common sense. You have to weed out light drones on drone boats before going into web/disrupt range. She still has her speed, and DPS is sitting at 237 with +3% implants.
ARES 003	Posted - 2010.12.15 07:18:00 - [8] Nice. I guess the nos helps you to stay in the fight longer eh. keep it up then d00d!
Zach Donnell Ghost-Busters	Posted - 2010.12.15 07:41:00 - [9] Originally by: Lemming EVERADIO'FAN [Enyo, Standard] Small Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Reactive Membrane II Reactive Plating II 1MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II Light Ion Blaster II, Void S Light Ion Blaster II, Void S Light Ion Blaster II, Void S Light Ion Blaster II, Void S Small Nosferatu II Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I Hobgoblin II x1 She still has her speed, and DPS is sitting at 237 with +3% implants. Speed - lol. I'd be curious to see these battles you are getting in with that fit. It is vulnerable to being out tracked by competent jags drams etc. Not to mention any web AB AF can get away from you in an enyo, whereas an ishkur has a web. It's why I only run MWD + scram fits on my enyo. Ishkur has too crappy of agility to run mwd + rail fits and kill anything competent, thus it becomes a brawler by nature.
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.15 07:53:00 - [10] Edited by: Lemming EVERADIO''FAN on 15/12/2010 07:56:55 Most targets that web you want to stay within web range. Wolves charge in, and by the time they realize they are being broken, you overheat the AB, and you can kill them in falloff. The DPS is quick enough to chew through em before they realize that you have the stronger tank. And if they do warp off, you havent lost a ship. As I said, against a Web, you fly manual, not to dictate range, but to dictate angular. The ship tanks most Jag and Dramiel pilots that shoot at range (giving you more than enough time to call in backup). Fly right to get some angular and you stay up by pulsing your repper. -The falloff on the Jag/Dramiel are what keep you alive when they are fighting at range. And if they come in close enough, null will usually hit em enough to push em back off ya. Still have yet to be killed by a dram or Jaguar in this fit. Artillery Thrashers on the other hand, are another story. I've been popped by 1. The others couldn't break me. It survives the encounter where the Ishkur Doesnt (Arty Jag or Dramiel will shoot out your drones). Rail fits still don't do enough DPS to crack it. And propper rail fits are truly rare. And what I meant by speed is that she is still sitting at roughly 875 m/s, instead of the abysmal 750 that armor rigged enyos run. Most wolves plug their explosive hole with a rig, dropping their speed down to 760-780. With a single web your speed is still 350 m/s allowing you to stay within blaster range for another 600-800 damage (with overheat) when your winning the fight. I've popped a couple with my drone before they could leave my scram range.
Zach Donnell Ghost-Busters	Posted - 2010.12.15 08:10:00 - [11] Don't get me wrong, I love the enyo. But Two things, 1) you danced around the points I made. 2) I still would like to see some battle reports or a killboard for your pvp character to better understand the context you are making these claims in.
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.15 08:22:00 - [12] Originally by: Zach Donnell Don't get me wrong, I love the enyo. But Two things, 1) you danced around the points I made. 2) I still would like to see some battle reports or a killboard for your pvp character to better understand the context you are making these claims in. I addressed you points. 1) Dramiel situation: Competent Dram pilots cannot break its tank without going into Null/Nos Range. Most Dram pilots are MWD fit and so do not do this. Gun tracking on Faction AM will usually 1 or 2 shot the drones they send at you (which is the piece of the DPS needed to kill you. Mostly Warrior II's, and your Explosive hole is at 70%). The tracking on an Enyo with standard or Faction ammo is .58 with a 3% implant. AB fit Drams usually bugger out real fast when they realize their getting hit. 2) Artillery Fits: Fly manual to get angular down a bit, they cannot break the tank. Both situations require backup to get you out of the situation (which you have time for). But if your in an Ishkur, your more likely to be killed by those ships than the enyo. Against other assult frigs: They plug their holes with armor rigs, dropping their speed below yours. If they didn't plug their holes your DPS will kill them quickly if they get up close and personal. I have not lost to a solo assult frig. Its not that the ship is "Super Fast" But rather faster than the other ships that have the DPS to kill it. Webs: You have to fly manualand fly right to survive/win the engagement. This is a case of player skill over character skill points sort of thing. I've lot a lost of enyo's learning this lesson. Most of the time if they have a web they want to be in the Enyo's kill range. Using an Alt character to post Main's KB defeats the purpose of using an alt. Send me an eve-mail in game and Ill link you my primary kill board tommorow. ^.^
Zach Donnell Ghost-Busters	Posted - 2010.12.15 08:43:00 - [13] Mail sent. and... Originally by: Lemming EVERADIO'FAN I have not lost to a solo assult frig. Let's see what we can do about that :)
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.15 08:46:00 - [14] Well set something up on the test server. ^.^
Hex'Caliber Gallente Massively Mob	Posted - 2010.12.15 10:58:00 - [15] Edited by: Hex''Caliber on 15/12/2010 11:04:15 The love of the rail ishkur by pilot's dates back to pre drone nerf, before they added drone bandwidth and removed the ability to field med drones. Being reduced to light drones hurt its dps potential tremendously, but older pilots who no longer fly it, throw it out as the better Gallente af when new pilots ask for advice. Regards HexCaliber Mankinds greatest Strength and greatest weakness is HOPE
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.12.15 11:07:00 - [16] Originally by: Lemming EVERADIO'FAN ... I like you, you made me lol after i woke up. Keep going on.
Rashmika Clavain Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.15 11:21:00 - [17] I love my little Enyo, and yes I think it is vastly underated. 4x Light Ion Blaster II 1x Small Diminishing Power System Drain I 1x Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters 1x Warp Scrambler II 1x Adaptive Nano Plating II 1x Damage Control II 1x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 1x Small Armor Repairer II 1x Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I 1x Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I [html]http://skilltrainingcomplete.com/users/flair/1417.html[/html]
TV Evangelist	Posted - 2010.12.15 11:25:00 - [18] Edited by: TV Evangelist on 15/12/2010 11:25:57 Like someone pointed out, the Ishkur used to be omfgwin back when you could field 2 med,3 light drones and pre-nerf nos. These days the only advantage it has over the enyo is the extra midslot, but as you have discovered the raw dps and tank of the enyo usually wins out. Now please, stop educating the unwashed masses and enjoy your enyo.
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.12.15 11:33:00 - [19] Only thing enyo can win is 2nd place in "worst assault ship in eve" contest.
Darius Brinn	Posted - 2010.12.15 11:44:00 - [20] Edited by: Darius Brinn on 15/12/2010 11:44:48 Edited by: Darius Brinn on 15/12/2010 11:44:26 I frequently fly my Ishkur and I like it a lot. But I admit that this thread has sparked my interest in the Enyo. Actually, I just decided that I would like to try other blaster frigate hulls and bought me a Taranis and a Navy Comet. How would an Enyo do, say, compared to a Navy Comet? I expect they are suited for similar situations.
Anyura	Posted - 2010.12.15 13:15:00 - [21] Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Only thing enyo can win is 2nd place in "worst assault ship in eve" contest. My Retribution cries itself to sleep at nights. =(
Tony SoXai	Posted - 2010.12.15 20:08:00 - [22] Lemming, did you ever try Turelle's Ishkur? Goes something like this if I can recall. [Ishkur, Tishkur] Small Armor Repairer II Damage Control II Reactive Plating II 1MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II Tracking Disruptor II Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Small Nosferatu II Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Warrior II x5 It's a pretty wicked setup.
RnDr Brain	Posted - 2010.12.15 20:45:00 - [23] Originally by: Azelor Delaria The drones could do some damage, but your main damage comes from blasters, just like an Enyo. Mr. your drone skills sux, if u want to fly ishkur, u should have all needed drone skills at 5, than your drone do almost half of DPS.
oldmanst4r Minmatar oldmanst4r's Corporation	Posted - 2010.12.15 21:06:00 - [24] Originally by: Tony SoXai Lemming, did you ever try Turelle's Ishkur? Goes something like this if I can recall. [Ishkur, Tishkur] Small Armor Repairer II Damage Control II Reactive Plating II 1MN Afterburner II Warp Scrambler II Tracking Disruptor II Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Ion Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Small Nosferatu II Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Warrior II x5 It's a pretty wicked setup. Dis is doing it right. Originally by: CCP Shadow snip Castration successful. Shadow.
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.12.15 21:12:00 - [25] Yes, cccs are mandatory on all pvp ships.
oldmanst4r Minmatar oldmanst4r's Corporation	Posted - 2010.12.15 21:13:00 - [26] Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Yes, cccs are mandatory on all pvp ships. Didn't notice those, well everything else is right. Originally by: CCP Shadow snip Castration successful. Shadow.
Tony SoXai	Posted - 2010.12.15 21:36:00 - [27] Originally by: oldmanst4r Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Yes, cccs are mandatory on all pvp ships. Didn't notice those, well everything else is right. CCCs help a lot of frigate immensely. Shows what you know.
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.12.15 21:38:00 - [28] Wrong, by the time you start capping out fight will be over. Especially with ishkur that has 250-300dps. And when theres neut involved, its absolutely useless.
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.15 21:41:00 - [29] Im seeing a lot of DCU's on these fits. If you want your Enyo to hold together I would suggest throwing it out in favor of an ENAM. "WHAT?!" - Yeah you heard me, throw you DCU out. There have been only 3 frig fights I've been in where both ships were in strucutre and the pilots were using their hulls to stay alive. I won one of those fights becuase the Buffer WAS the tank (Destroyer VS Frig), lost the other fight just because DPS was higher than mine, and won the third fight without having a DCU on my boat. Every other fight, if I've gone into structure, DCU or NO DCU, my ship was dead - period. If you going to run a small armor repper, run the repper and make that WORK rather than just be there. If your buffer fitting a fig with a DCU, that means your hurting your tank. use your low slots to make your armor tank stronger, or fit a plate with the DCU if your gonna buffer fit it. Your Resistances are in your armor anyway, not your hull.
Zach Donnell Ghost-Busters	Posted - 2010.12.15 21:43:00 - [30] Still waiting for that kb link m8
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.15 22:04:00 - [31] Sent. ^.^
oldmanst4r Minmatar oldmanst4r's Corporation	Posted - 2010.12.15 22:31:00 - [32] Originally by: Tony SoXai Originally by: oldmanst4r Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Yes, cccs are mandatory on all pvp ships. Didn't notice those, well everything else is right. CCCs help a lot of frigate immensely. Shows what you know. Normally the fight is over before you start capping out, and even in some sort of super cap-intensive fit where you cap out in 30s, you will be much better served by semiconductor memory cells then you will be by CCCs. At any rate, it's usually hard to justify cap rigs over damage/tracking/range rigs or resist/buffer rigs. Originally by: CCP Shadow snip Castration successful. Shadow.
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.15 22:45:00 - [33] Edited by: Lemming EVERADIO''FAN on 15/12/2010 22:45:31 A lot of cap issue can be solved by skilling rather than running dual CCC rigs. Only wory about making your ship cap stable, or close to it, if you need an endurance boat (like an intercepter or heavy tackle 'scouting' a jump or two away from the fleet). Honestly, if your running a NOS, you don't want to be cap stable with it running. Pulse a module if you are REALLY hurting for cap. That way if your fighting another NOS ship, your NOS acts as a neut once your under them, and youll still be able to run full bore for 60 seconds or several minutes depending on what your fighting.
Lex Fasces Amarr New Eden Renegades	Posted - 2010.12.16 00:54:00 - [34] Originally by: Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Sent. ^.^ mail me one too please. i am interested in this =)
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2010.12.16 02:42:00 - [35] The fit on the first page is too much tank and not enough gank. For the enyo to really grab my attention it would need to have a double damage bonus similar to the deimos. Here's my wolf: High: 200mm II x 4 /w RP Fusion Small Energy Nuet II Med: Named MWD Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler Low: Gyro II TE II F85 Peripheral Damage System Adaptive Nano II Rigs: Projectile Collision Projectile Burst It's all gank. Unlike the Enyo the Wolf DOES get a double damage bonus. I have 294 DPS w/o implants and posses a much better range over the Enyo.
Tony SoXai	Posted - 2010.12.16 03:07:00 - [36] Originally by: Zarnak Wulf The fit on the first page is too much tank and not enough gank. For the enyo to really grab my attention it would need to have a double damage bonus similar to the deimos. Here's my wolf: High: 200mm II x 4 /w RP Fusion Small Energy Nuet II Med: Named MWD Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler Low: Gyro II TE II F85 Peripheral Damage System Adaptive Nano II Rigs: Projectile Collision Projectile Burst It's all gank. Unlike the Enyo the Wolf DOES get a double damage bonus. I have 294 DPS w/o implants and posses a much better range over the Enyo. Your range counts for nothing when the Enyo's AB lets him orbit you at whatever range he chooses. AKA his Enyo will win that fight every time. Also you only have 250 dps without overloading. Decent fit but it is by far not superior to his Enyo.
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2010.12.16 03:31:00 - [37] He has 197 DPS w/o the one drone or overheating and only 700 EHP more then the wolf. The small nuet would kill his repping - which is negligible with the kind of DPS each ship is spitting out here. If he wants to fight beyond 6km? Shrug. I'll take that bet.
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.16 03:56:00 - [38] Edited by: Lemming EVERADIO''FAN on 16/12/2010 04:03:14 Edited by: Lemming EVERADIO''FAN on 16/12/2010 04:01:42 Originally by: Zarnak Wulf He has 197 DPS w/o the one drone or overheating and only 700 EHP more then the wolf. The small nuet would kill his repping - which is negligible with the kind of DPS each ship is spitting out here. If he wants to fight beyond 6km? Shrug. I'll take that bet. 240 with void, can be at 250 with 5% implants, 273 OH with +3% impalnts. I am AB fit and you plan to get in scram range. Plus I have an active repper and can pull more hit points out of it in the long run. Id be able to dictate range and angular. Your Damage is cut by at least 62% - leaving only max of 38% damage incomming., while I get to pound on your midline, getting at least 45% or more of my DPS on ya. I've fought fits like that before... I have em in structure about the time I hit 40% armor, I usually finish the fight at 35-50% armor or more if they use the something other than EMP. And yes, you have a neut. Still have to survive the cap I have, and there is enough cap recharge on there with the noss to keep the guns running and squeeze out a rep as you cap out yourself running the neut.
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2010.12.16 04:57:00 - [39] I stopped using an AB after sheer frustration of constantly landing 30km off of target and having it warp off before I could get into scramble range. You can't use an active repper w/o an AB. It's a catch 22 with the AF line. They're awesome w/ AB. But to get into position with them is a lesson in frustration. My basic point - more then you vs. me - is that the enyo, lacking in range and speed compared to the wolf - should have a much larger DPS advantage over it. I can get 306 DPS w/ implants overheated and 342 DPS w/ Hail. I'd fly the Enyo if I could get daredevil DPS out of it.
Tony SoXai	Posted - 2010.12.16 05:06:00 - [40] Edited by: Tony SoXai on 16/12/2010 05:11:30 Edited by: Tony SoXai on 16/12/2010 05:06:45 Here is a fit I saw on battleclinic, huge dps and good ehp and speed. [Enyo, Hulltank] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Co-Processor II 1MN Afterburner II J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S 'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher 1, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I Hobgoblin II x1 7.5k ehp, 336 dps. 380 overloaded. 420 overloaded with Void.
middel vrouw	Posted - 2010.12.16 05:17:00 - [41] ishkur is great pve ship. nothing blows lvl 1' and 2' and most 3s away like a ishkur
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.16 07:23:00 - [42] Originally by: middel vrouw ishkur is great pve ship. nothing blows lvl 1' and 2' and most 3s away like a ishkur And if you feel froggy and fly right, you can slowboat your way through Level IV's.... bring lots of ammo though if the bounty is 700 thousand or more. The only Rat in a standard mission I cannot kill with an enyo is Harbok Moon in Angel Vengence, or a similar rat with a bounty of 2.5 mil.... ^.^
Ildryn X Inc.	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:09:00 - [43] This is before the drop list. Was a fully fit raven that was can baiting. 2007.07.27 02:04 Victim: XXXX Alliance: NONE Corp: XXXX Korp Destroyed: Raven System: Inari Security: 0.5 Involved parties: Name: Ildryn (laid the final blow) Security: -1.3 Alliance: NONE Corp: IDLE GUNS Ship: Ishkur Weapon: Hobgoblin II Destroyed items: Heat Dissipation Field II Power Diagnostic System II 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I Salvager I Photon Scattering Field II Shield Boost Amplifier II Power Diagnostic System II Cataclysm Cruise Missile, Qty: 22 (Cargo) Hammerhead I (Drone Bay) Hammerhead I (Drone Bay) Wrath Cruise Missile, Qty: 24 Wrath Cruise Missile, Qty: 24 Wrath Cruise Missile, Qty: 24 Wrath Cruise Missile, Qty: 24
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.17 01:04:00 - [44] Ildryn, Well done, thats what a heavy tackler can do. Now i'd like to know if any ishkur pilots have pulled off similar feats and with what fit?
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.17 04:00:00 - [45] Edited by: Lemming EVERADIO''FAN on 17/12/2010 04:06:34 Allright: Me and Zach Donnell duked it out on the Test Server. Both pilots, fair to say, have the same SP invested in their ships/fits. Results of the lineup: Enyo VS Ishkur X3 = Ishkur won Enyo VS Wolf = Wolf Won Enyo Vs Jaguar x2 = 1 Enyo and 1 Jag Hats off to Zach, had my but handed to me nearly every time, but I put up a pretty good fight. Player skill aslo plays a good factor (And, he is honestly a much better PVP'er than I am). On a side note, it took 3 Legions in a nearby room almost 5 minutes to kill my fit as I was tackling one of them... So, my new opinion is this: IShkur = Stronger Solo PVP ship (or at least stonger than my current fit) than the enyo. Now I need to test the Ishkurs ability to play heavy tackle..... After action thoughs: DPS fits with lower tanks beat tanked hsip with lower dps in 1v1 pvp. My current enyo fit is better suited for heavy tackle against larger targets and not REAL 1v1's. - I have not been fighting competent PVP'ers to date (event was an eye opener).
Ctp Hawkeye Caldari Blue Sun Enterprises	Posted - 2010.12.17 04:23:00 - [46] Sup zach o/ If the enyo had a 3rd mid for a web (buying it time at range to pop drones) it would be awesome. But it doesnt. So it isnt. ****** SIG :O ******
Ildryn do you -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2010.12.18 10:33:00 - [47] Drone types are optional. If you know your target plan accordingly. [Ishkur Bleeder] (Lows) Small Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II (Mids) 1MN Afterburner II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I (Highs) Light Ion Blaster II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Ion Blaster II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Drones_Active=Hobgoblin II,5
Zach Donnell Ghost-Busters	Posted - 2010.12.18 11:27:00 - [48] Originally by: Ildryn Drone types are optional. If you know your target plan accordingly. [Ishkur Bleeder] (Lows) Small Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II (Mids) 1MN Afterburner II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I (Highs) Light Ion Blaster II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Ion Blaster II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Drones_Active=Hobgoblin II,5 wtf Please no one use this fit
Zach Donnell Ghost-Busters	Posted - 2010.12.18 11:29:00 - [49] Edited by: Zach Donnell on 18/12/2010 11:29:43 Edit: double post **ing forums
Lubomir Penev Sausages of Truth S I L E N T.	Posted - 2010.12.18 13:03:00 - [50] Originally by: Hex'Caliber Edited by: Hex''Caliber on 15/12/2010 11:04:15 The love of the rail ishkur by pilot's dates back to pre drone nerf, before they added drone bandwidth and removed the ability to field med drones. Being reduced to light drones hurt its dps potential tremendously, but older pilots who no longer fly it, throw it out as the better Gallente af when new pilots ask for advice. The old rails, mwd, cap booster, disruptor, small rep Ishkur still beat easily all those ******ed AB/scram AF as long as the fight doesn't start in scram range. There are no macrominers in EVE
Sporked	Posted - 2010.12.18 14:37:00 - [51] Originally by: Lubomir Penev Originally by: Hex'Caliber Edited by: Hex''Caliber on 15/12/2010 11:04:15 The love of the rail ishkur by pilot's dates back to pre drone nerf, before they added drone bandwidth and removed the ability to field med drones. Being reduced to light drones hurt its dps potential tremendously, but older pilots who no longer fly it, throw it out as the better Gallente af when new pilots ask for advice. The old rails, mwd, cap booster, disruptor, small rep Ishkur still beat easily all those *****ed AB/scram AF as long as the fight doesn't start in scram range. Don't forget that an Ishkur can keep another AF jammed ~40% of the time while fielding a flight of light ECM drones, that can keep enough heat off you to give you time to work on their tank. I still wouldn't fit rails in that case though, losing your drone DPS pretty much means you have* to fit blasters to make the most of the ECM.
Aerilis Gallente Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.12.18 18:31:00 - [52] Can i 1v1 your enyo in my ishkur?
Dr Sheepbringer Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.18 19:12:00 - [53] Just as a sidenote. Because I've seen this and done it myself. I fly both with good skills and always died horribly (with similar setups), but I did notice that with Enyo I was paying more attention to what I was doing (thus surviving longer...), but with ishkur I'm trying to fly, shoot and look at my drones (why?...dunno) and these "oh damn" moments occur. Perhaps you are just paying more attention to shooting and flying when using the Enyo. I always curse drones when they rip me to shreds, but not because they are doing damage, but due to them messing up my mojo! Should I pop the drones, should I pop the ship, should I run...pop damn! ECM drones screw the mojo 5x (not to mention EWAR ships...i hate them!) Originally by: CCP Shadow Dr. Sheepbringer -- It's not that kind of horn.
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.18 21:38:00 - [54] Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer Just as a sidenote. Because I've seen this and done it myself. I fly both with good skills and always died horribly (with similar setups), but I did notice that with Enyo I was paying more attention to what I was doing (thus surviving longer...), but with ishkur I'm trying to fly, shoot and look at my drones (why?...dunno) and these "oh damn" moments occur. Perhaps you are just paying more attention to shooting and flying when using the Enyo. I always curse drones when they rip me to shreds, but not because they are doing damage, but due to them messing up my mojo! Should I pop the drones, should I pop the ship, should I run...pop damn! ECM drones screw the mojo 5x (not to mention EWAR ships...i hate them!) Thats a vailid point, and may be why I can keep my Enyo alive during fleet fights as well as I do. I may have to start flying an Ishkur again now that I've seen a propper demonstration of what it can do. Still a little uneasy about the lower resistances on the Ishkur, but its also a little bit faster, and may make up for it.
Ildryn do you -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2010.12.18 22:17:00 - [55] Originally by: Zach Donnell wtf Please no one use this fit wtf noob? That fit was pre-nos nerf and it was very effective... You wouldn't know about that because you didn't start until 2008. Go away.
Idicious Lightbane Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.12.18 22:36:00 - [56] Edited by: Idicious Lightbane on 18/12/2010 22:45:33 Originally by: Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Im seeing a lot of DCU's on these fits. If you want your Enyo to hold together I would suggest throwing it out in favor of an ENAM. "WHAT?!" - Yeah you heard me, throw you DCU out. There have been only 3 frig fights I've been in where both ships were in strucutre and the pilots were using their hulls to stay alive. I won one of those fights becuase the Buffer WAS the tank (Destroyer VS Frig), lost the other fight just because DPS was higher than mine, and won the third fight without having a DCU on my boat. 60% resists across the board on structure really aren't to shabby as well, especially with the generally high structure SP of gallente. Every other fight, if I've gone into structure, DCU or NO DCU, my ship was dead - period. If you going to run a small armor repper, run the repper and make that WORK rather than just be there. If your buffer fitting a fig with a DCU, that means your hurting your tank. use your low slots to make your armor tank stronger, or fit a plate with the DCU if your gonna buffer fit it. Your Resistances are in your armor anyway, not your hull. The DCU lets you bleed into structure longer than with no DCU fitted generally. The reps you pull off while bleeding structure will bring back high resist HP, while whithout DCU you're generally dead in 2 shots, the benefit of bleeding structure while repping GENERALLY (not always) outweigh slightly higher armor resists. 60% armor resists over 0% really isn't to shabby as buffer for your active tank, especially with the large amount of structure gallente generally have.
Zach Donnell Ghost-Busters	Posted - 2010.12.19 08:30:00 - [57] Originally by: Ildryn Originally by: Zach Donnell wtf Please no one use this fit wtf noob? That fit was pre-nos nerf and it was very effective... You wouldn't know about that because you didn't start until 2008. Go away. lol, explain to me why you are then suggesting a fit that was potentially good before a change 3+ years ago?
Ildryn do you -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2010.12.19 08:40:00 - [58] I posted the killmail that i received when i solo killed a raven. I was posting the fit i used to do it with.
Zach Donnell Ghost-Busters	Posted - 2010.12.19 09:30:00 - [59] Originally by: Ildryn I posted the killmail that i received when i solo killed a raven. I was posting the fit i used to do it with. ah, fair enough :) At that point you should have also been able to run with 5x medium drones correct?
Ildryn do you -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2010.12.19 13:14:00 - [60] Correct however i was not expecting a raven to can bait and was prepared for frigs.

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