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Enyo VS Ishkur - Need opinions to help Trying and understand...

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Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.15 22:04:00 - [31] Sent. ^.^
oldmanst4r Minmatar oldmanst4r's Corporation	Posted - 2010.12.15 22:31:00 - [32] Originally by: Tony SoXai Originally by: oldmanst4r Originally by: Lugalzagezi666 Yes, cccs are mandatory on all pvp ships. Didn't notice those, well everything else is right. CCCs help a lot of frigate immensely. Shows what you know. Normally the fight is over before you start capping out, and even in some sort of super cap-intensive fit where you cap out in 30s, you will be much better served by semiconductor memory cells then you will be by CCCs. At any rate, it's usually hard to justify cap rigs over damage/tracking/range rigs or resist/buffer rigs. Originally by: CCP Shadow snip Castration successful. Shadow.
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.15 22:45:00 - [33] Edited by: Lemming EVERADIO''FAN on 15/12/2010 22:45:31 A lot of cap issue can be solved by skilling rather than running dual CCC rigs. Only wory about making your ship cap stable, or close to it, if you need an endurance boat (like an intercepter or heavy tackle 'scouting' a jump or two away from the fleet). Honestly, if your running a NOS, you don't want to be cap stable with it running. Pulse a module if you are REALLY hurting for cap. That way if your fighting another NOS ship, your NOS acts as a neut once your under them, and youll still be able to run full bore for 60 seconds or several minutes depending on what your fighting.
Lex Fasces Amarr New Eden Renegades	Posted - 2010.12.16 00:54:00 - [34] Originally by: Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Sent. ^.^ mail me one too please. i am interested in this =)
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2010.12.16 02:42:00 - [35] The fit on the first page is too much tank and not enough gank. For the enyo to really grab my attention it would need to have a double damage bonus similar to the deimos. Here's my wolf: High: 200mm II x 4 /w RP Fusion Small Energy Nuet II Med: Named MWD Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler Low: Gyro II TE II F85 Peripheral Damage System Adaptive Nano II Rigs: Projectile Collision Projectile Burst It's all gank. Unlike the Enyo the Wolf DOES get a double damage bonus. I have 294 DPS w/o implants and posses a much better range over the Enyo.
Tony SoXai	Posted - 2010.12.16 03:07:00 - [36] Originally by: Zarnak Wulf The fit on the first page is too much tank and not enough gank. For the enyo to really grab my attention it would need to have a double damage bonus similar to the deimos. Here's my wolf: High: 200mm II x 4 /w RP Fusion Small Energy Nuet II Med: Named MWD Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler Low: Gyro II TE II F85 Peripheral Damage System Adaptive Nano II Rigs: Projectile Collision Projectile Burst It's all gank. Unlike the Enyo the Wolf DOES get a double damage bonus. I have 294 DPS w/o implants and posses a much better range over the Enyo. Your range counts for nothing when the Enyo's AB lets him orbit you at whatever range he chooses. AKA his Enyo will win that fight every time. Also you only have 250 dps without overloading. Decent fit but it is by far not superior to his Enyo.
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2010.12.16 03:31:00 - [37] He has 197 DPS w/o the one drone or overheating and only 700 EHP more then the wolf. The small nuet would kill his repping - which is negligible with the kind of DPS each ship is spitting out here. If he wants to fight beyond 6km? Shrug. I'll take that bet.
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.16 03:56:00 - [38] Edited by: Lemming EVERADIO''FAN on 16/12/2010 04:03:14 Edited by: Lemming EVERADIO''FAN on 16/12/2010 04:01:42 Originally by: Zarnak Wulf He has 197 DPS w/o the one drone or overheating and only 700 EHP more then the wolf. The small nuet would kill his repping - which is negligible with the kind of DPS each ship is spitting out here. If he wants to fight beyond 6km? Shrug. I'll take that bet. 240 with void, can be at 250 with 5% implants, 273 OH with +3% impalnts. I am AB fit and you plan to get in scram range. Plus I have an active repper and can pull more hit points out of it in the long run. Id be able to dictate range and angular. Your Damage is cut by at least 62% - leaving only max of 38% damage incomming., while I get to pound on your midline, getting at least 45% or more of my DPS on ya. I've fought fits like that before... I have em in structure about the time I hit 40% armor, I usually finish the fight at 35-50% armor or more if they use the something other than EMP. And yes, you have a neut. Still have to survive the cap I have, and there is enough cap recharge on there with the noss to keep the guns running and squeeze out a rep as you cap out yourself running the neut.
Zarnak Wulf	Posted - 2010.12.16 04:57:00 - [39] I stopped using an AB after sheer frustration of constantly landing 30km off of target and having it warp off before I could get into scramble range. You can't use an active repper w/o an AB. It's a catch 22 with the AF line. They're awesome w/ AB. But to get into position with them is a lesson in frustration. My basic point - more then you vs. me - is that the enyo, lacking in range and speed compared to the wolf - should have a much larger DPS advantage over it. I can get 306 DPS w/ implants overheated and 342 DPS w/ Hail. I'd fly the Enyo if I could get daredevil DPS out of it.
Tony SoXai	Posted - 2010.12.16 05:06:00 - [40] Edited by: Tony SoXai on 16/12/2010 05:11:30 Edited by: Tony SoXai on 16/12/2010 05:06:45 Here is a fit I saw on battleclinic, huge dps and good ehp and speed. [Enyo, Hulltank] Damage Control II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Magnetic Field Stabilizer II Co-Processor II 1MN Afterburner II J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Neutron Blaster II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S 'Arbalest' Rocket Launcher 1, Caldari Navy Gremlin Rocket Small Hybrid Burst Aerator I Small Hybrid Collision Accelerator I Hobgoblin II x1 7.5k ehp, 336 dps. 380 overloaded. 420 overloaded with Void.
middel vrouw	Posted - 2010.12.16 05:17:00 - [41] ishkur is great pve ship. nothing blows lvl 1' and 2' and most 3s away like a ishkur
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.16 07:23:00 - [42] Originally by: middel vrouw ishkur is great pve ship. nothing blows lvl 1' and 2' and most 3s away like a ishkur And if you feel froggy and fly right, you can slowboat your way through Level IV's.... bring lots of ammo though if the bounty is 700 thousand or more. The only Rat in a standard mission I cannot kill with an enyo is Harbok Moon in Angel Vengence, or a similar rat with a bounty of 2.5 mil.... ^.^
Ildryn X Inc.	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:09:00 - [43] This is before the drop list. Was a fully fit raven that was can baiting. 2007.07.27 02:04 Victim: XXXX Alliance: NONE Corp: XXXX Korp Destroyed: Raven System: Inari Security: 0.5 Involved parties: Name: Ildryn (laid the final blow) Security: -1.3 Alliance: NONE Corp: IDLE GUNS Ship: Ishkur Weapon: Hobgoblin II Destroyed items: Heat Dissipation Field II Power Diagnostic System II 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I 'Arbalest' Cruise Launcher I Salvager I Photon Scattering Field II Shield Boost Amplifier II Power Diagnostic System II Cataclysm Cruise Missile, Qty: 22 (Cargo) Hammerhead I (Drone Bay) Hammerhead I (Drone Bay) Wrath Cruise Missile, Qty: 24 Wrath Cruise Missile, Qty: 24 Wrath Cruise Missile, Qty: 24 Wrath Cruise Missile, Qty: 24
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.17 01:04:00 - [44] Ildryn, Well done, thats what a heavy tackler can do. Now i'd like to know if any ishkur pilots have pulled off similar feats and with what fit?
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.17 04:00:00 - [45] Edited by: Lemming EVERADIO''FAN on 17/12/2010 04:06:34 Allright: Me and Zach Donnell duked it out on the Test Server. Both pilots, fair to say, have the same SP invested in their ships/fits. Results of the lineup: Enyo VS Ishkur X3 = Ishkur won Enyo VS Wolf = Wolf Won Enyo Vs Jaguar x2 = 1 Enyo and 1 Jag Hats off to Zach, had my but handed to me nearly every time, but I put up a pretty good fight. Player skill aslo plays a good factor (And, he is honestly a much better PVP'er than I am). On a side note, it took 3 Legions in a nearby room almost 5 minutes to kill my fit as I was tackling one of them... So, my new opinion is this: IShkur = Stronger Solo PVP ship (or at least stonger than my current fit) than the enyo. Now I need to test the Ishkurs ability to play heavy tackle..... After action thoughs: DPS fits with lower tanks beat tanked hsip with lower dps in 1v1 pvp. My current enyo fit is better suited for heavy tackle against larger targets and not REAL 1v1's. - I have not been fighting competent PVP'ers to date (event was an eye opener).
Ctp Hawkeye Caldari Blue Sun Enterprises	Posted - 2010.12.17 04:23:00 - [46] Sup zach o/ If the enyo had a 3rd mid for a web (buying it time at range to pop drones) it would be awesome. But it doesnt. So it isnt. ****** SIG :O ******
Ildryn do you -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2010.12.18 10:33:00 - [47] Drone types are optional. If you know your target plan accordingly. [Ishkur Bleeder] (Lows) Small Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II (Mids) 1MN Afterburner II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I (Highs) Light Ion Blaster II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Ion Blaster II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Drones_Active=Hobgoblin II,5
Zach Donnell Ghost-Busters	Posted - 2010.12.18 11:27:00 - [48] Originally by: Ildryn Drone types are optional. If you know your target plan accordingly. [Ishkur Bleeder] (Lows) Small Armor Repairer II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II Energized Adaptive Nano Membrane II (Mids) 1MN Afterburner II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor I Initiated Harmonic Warp Scrambler I (Highs) Light Ion Blaster II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Light Ion Blaster II,Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Small Diminishing Power System Drain I Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Small Capacitor Control Circuit I Drones_Active=Hobgoblin II,5 wtf Please no one use this fit
Zach Donnell Ghost-Busters	Posted - 2010.12.18 11:29:00 - [49] Edited by: Zach Donnell on 18/12/2010 11:29:43 Edit: double post **ing forums
Lubomir Penev Sausages of Truth S I L E N T.	Posted - 2010.12.18 13:03:00 - [50] Originally by: Hex'Caliber Edited by: Hex''Caliber on 15/12/2010 11:04:15 The love of the rail ishkur by pilot's dates back to pre drone nerf, before they added drone bandwidth and removed the ability to field med drones. Being reduced to light drones hurt its dps potential tremendously, but older pilots who no longer fly it, throw it out as the better Gallente af when new pilots ask for advice. The old rails, mwd, cap booster, disruptor, small rep Ishkur still beat easily all those ******ed AB/scram AF as long as the fight doesn't start in scram range. There are no macrominers in EVE
Sporked	Posted - 2010.12.18 14:37:00 - [51] Originally by: Lubomir Penev Originally by: Hex'Caliber Edited by: Hex''Caliber on 15/12/2010 11:04:15 The love of the rail ishkur by pilot's dates back to pre drone nerf, before they added drone bandwidth and removed the ability to field med drones. Being reduced to light drones hurt its dps potential tremendously, but older pilots who no longer fly it, throw it out as the better Gallente af when new pilots ask for advice. The old rails, mwd, cap booster, disruptor, small rep Ishkur still beat easily all those *****ed AB/scram AF as long as the fight doesn't start in scram range. Don't forget that an Ishkur can keep another AF jammed ~40% of the time while fielding a flight of light ECM drones, that can keep enough heat off you to give you time to work on their tank. I still wouldn't fit rails in that case though, losing your drone DPS pretty much means you have* to fit blasters to make the most of the ECM.
Aerilis Gallente Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.12.18 18:31:00 - [52] Can i 1v1 your enyo in my ishkur?
Dr Sheepbringer Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.18 19:12:00 - [53] Just as a sidenote. Because I've seen this and done it myself. I fly both with good skills and always died horribly (with similar setups), but I did notice that with Enyo I was paying more attention to what I was doing (thus surviving longer...), but with ishkur I'm trying to fly, shoot and look at my drones (why?...dunno) and these "oh damn" moments occur. Perhaps you are just paying more attention to shooting and flying when using the Enyo. I always curse drones when they rip me to shreds, but not because they are doing damage, but due to them messing up my mojo! Should I pop the drones, should I pop the ship, should I run...pop damn! ECM drones screw the mojo 5x (not to mention EWAR ships...i hate them!) Originally by: CCP Shadow Dr. Sheepbringer -- It's not that kind of horn.
Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.18 21:38:00 - [54] Originally by: Dr Sheepbringer Just as a sidenote. Because I've seen this and done it myself. I fly both with good skills and always died horribly (with similar setups), but I did notice that with Enyo I was paying more attention to what I was doing (thus surviving longer...), but with ishkur I'm trying to fly, shoot and look at my drones (why?...dunno) and these "oh damn" moments occur. Perhaps you are just paying more attention to shooting and flying when using the Enyo. I always curse drones when they rip me to shreds, but not because they are doing damage, but due to them messing up my mojo! Should I pop the drones, should I pop the ship, should I run...pop damn! ECM drones screw the mojo 5x (not to mention EWAR ships...i hate them!) Thats a vailid point, and may be why I can keep my Enyo alive during fleet fights as well as I do. I may have to start flying an Ishkur again now that I've seen a propper demonstration of what it can do. Still a little uneasy about the lower resistances on the Ishkur, but its also a little bit faster, and may make up for it.
Ildryn do you -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2010.12.18 22:17:00 - [55] Originally by: Zach Donnell wtf Please no one use this fit wtf noob? That fit was pre-nos nerf and it was very effective... You wouldn't know about that because you didn't start until 2008. Go away.
Idicious Lightbane Percussive Diplomacy	Posted - 2010.12.18 22:36:00 - [56] Edited by: Idicious Lightbane on 18/12/2010 22:45:33 Originally by: Lemming EVERADIO'FAN Im seeing a lot of DCU's on these fits. If you want your Enyo to hold together I would suggest throwing it out in favor of an ENAM. "WHAT?!" - Yeah you heard me, throw you DCU out. There have been only 3 frig fights I've been in where both ships were in strucutre and the pilots were using their hulls to stay alive. I won one of those fights becuase the Buffer WAS the tank (Destroyer VS Frig), lost the other fight just because DPS was higher than mine, and won the third fight without having a DCU on my boat. 60% resists across the board on structure really aren't to shabby as well, especially with the generally high structure SP of gallente. Every other fight, if I've gone into structure, DCU or NO DCU, my ship was dead - period. If you going to run a small armor repper, run the repper and make that WORK rather than just be there. If your buffer fitting a fig with a DCU, that means your hurting your tank. use your low slots to make your armor tank stronger, or fit a plate with the DCU if your gonna buffer fit it. Your Resistances are in your armor anyway, not your hull. The DCU lets you bleed into structure longer than with no DCU fitted generally. The reps you pull off while bleeding structure will bring back high resist HP, while whithout DCU you're generally dead in 2 shots, the benefit of bleeding structure while repping GENERALLY (not always) outweigh slightly higher armor resists. 60% armor resists over 0% really isn't to shabby as buffer for your active tank, especially with the large amount of structure gallente generally have.
Zach Donnell Ghost-Busters	Posted - 2010.12.19 08:30:00 - [57] Originally by: Ildryn Originally by: Zach Donnell wtf Please no one use this fit wtf noob? That fit was pre-nos nerf and it was very effective... You wouldn't know about that because you didn't start until 2008. Go away. lol, explain to me why you are then suggesting a fit that was potentially good before a change 3+ years ago?
Ildryn do you -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2010.12.19 08:40:00 - [58] I posted the killmail that i received when i solo killed a raven. I was posting the fit i used to do it with.
Zach Donnell Ghost-Busters	Posted - 2010.12.19 09:30:00 - [59] Originally by: Ildryn I posted the killmail that i received when i solo killed a raven. I was posting the fit i used to do it with. ah, fair enough :) At that point you should have also been able to run with 5x medium drones correct?
Ildryn do you -Mostly Harmless-	Posted - 2010.12.19 13:14:00 - [60] Correct however i was not expecting a raven to can bait and was prepared for frigs.

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