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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Miss Pristine	Posted - 2010.12.15 17:39:00 - [1] Edited by: Miss Pristine on 15/12/2010 17:45:14 I have a remap that will be available on Jan 5. With the free remap they just gave us... Will this just reset the remap I will receive in Jan? Meaning... If I use this remap, will it create a new countdown and my old one will go away? If I save the remap till the original was available, will I have 2 then?
Keira Matrix	Posted - 2010.12.15 17:42:00 - [2] Originally by: Miss Pristine I have a remap that will be available on Jan 5. With the free remap they just gave us... Will this just reset the remap I will receive in Jan? Meaning... If I use this remap, will it create a new countdown and my old one will go away? If I save the remap till the original was available, will I have 2 then? I think it will reset it. But the question is if you wait until the 5th will you get a second one.
Caltharian Gallente 0beron Construct Black Core Alliance	Posted - 2010.12.15 17:46:00 - [3] I dont think you will get one in Jan as i already had a remap available and still only have 1 remap available, which is a pitty a 2nd remap would have been very handy to swap over and do some training on skills that arent in my main plan.
Keira Matrix	Posted - 2010.12.15 17:49:00 - [4] Edited by: Keira Matrix on 15/12/2010 17:57:59 Edited by: Keira Matrix on 15/12/2010 17:50:05 Originally by: Caltharian I dont think you will get one in Jan as i already had a remap available and still only have 1 remap available, which is a pitty a 2nd remap would have been very handy to swap over and do some training on skills that arent in my main plan. If you did not get your remap today you should get it in tomorrows DT. It's a know issue Edit: I had 1 left on this character, it now has 2.
Maximillian Dragonard	Posted - 2010.12.15 17:49:00 - [5] I have one alt that still had a remap available. It now has 2 remaps available.. My other 2 accounts haven't received their remaps yet .
SurrenderMonkey	Posted - 2010.12.15 17:54:00 - [6] I, too, had an alt with one remap available which now has two, and my main had one available and still only has one. --------------- Faction-Militia:Player-Alliance::Newbie-corp:Player-corp
Tama Rens	Posted - 2010.12.15 18:00:00 - [7] This account didn't get the remap (I know, being worked on, I'm not stressing). My other accounts which had remaps available seem to still have a remap available, but I've not seen the extra (+1 remap) that others have reported. So, didn't get it here, and my others that had a remap all seem to still have only 1 remap. (That's fine if that's how it is supposed to be.) My question is about these +1 remaps that some have reported. Are we all supposed to be +1 remap (allowing for 2 available or more even) or was the free remap intended to simply be a reset of the timer.
Darth PVisor	Posted - 2010.12.15 18:02:00 - [8] I too would love to know this answer, I had a remap that was coming up on Feb 2nd. Since it is suppose to be a free remap, on the 2nd I Should now have 2... If not, it is hardly free since someone, who lets say, had a free remap 5 days ago, now gets another, yet anyone who had 1 coming up only gets his time shortened. On the SiSi it reset if you used it, but the question is, if I DO NO USE IT until the 2nd will I have 2 or not.
Keira Matrix	Posted - 2010.12.15 18:03:00 - [9] Edited by: Keira Matrix on 15/12/2010 18:08:57 Edited by: Keira Matrix on 15/12/2010 18:06:50 Originally by: Tama Rens This account didn't get the remap (I know, being worked on, I'm not stressing). My other accounts which had remaps available seem to still have a remap available, but I've not seen the extra (+1 remap) that others have reported. So, didn't get it here, and my others that had a remap all seem to still have only 1 remap. (That's fine if that's how it is supposed to be.) My question is about these +1 remaps that some have reported. Are we all supposed to be +1 remap (allowing for 2 available or more even) or was the free remap intended to simply be a reset of the timer. Everyone was supposed to get a remap because of the change regardless if they had 1 already. Those that did not get one should get them during tomorrows DT. Edit: timer will only reset if you use the remap. If you use your remap I think you'll find the timer will reset for a full year.
Tama Rens	Posted - 2010.12.15 18:07:00 - [10] Originally by: Keira Matrix Everyone was supposed to get a remap because of the change regardless if they had 1 already. Those that did not get one should get them during tomorrows DT. I know that. I know that I have a remap coming on this character tomorrow. Great. I'm more curious as to how the remap is working. Is it +1 for all (meaning possible to have 2 or more) or is it just to make sure that people have a remap (and thus is a reset for all of the timer)?

Keira Matrix	Posted - 2010.12.15 18:10:00 - [11] Originally by: Tama Rens Originally by: Keira Matrix Everyone was supposed to get a remap because of the change regardless if they had 1 already. Those that did not get one should get them during tomorrows DT. I know that. I know that I have a remap coming on this character tomorrow. Great. I'm more curious as to how the remap is working. Is it +1 for all (meaning possible to have 2 or more) or is it just to make sure that people have a remap (and thus is a reset for all of the timer)? Yep it's possible to have 2 even 3 in the case of new characters.
Riedle Minmatar Wayne's TV and Appliances	Posted - 2010.12.15 18:33:00 - [12] Quote: The question in this thread that needs answering from a GM is that if people wait until they are due another one will they actually get it. Because normally the timer is only going when you don't have a remap stored. Timer only starts after you use the second remap on a new character. Edit: The more I think about this the more I think you will get the additional remap if you wait, but if you use the one you have it's likely to reset the timer. But it would be nice to get this confirmed one way or the other. Agreed. I have a remap coming up in May but if this one burns that one and the timer goes back to 12 months then I will wait until May to use it so I can have the flexibility of remapping at optimal times.
Conor Todaki The Kuor Collective	Posted - 2010.12.15 18:36:00 - [13] Was about to ask the same thing. I have a re-map available on christmas day but if I can use 2 and save that one on christmas that qould be awesome. Dev please answer.
Tama Rens	Posted - 2010.12.15 18:44:00 - [14] Edited by: Tama Rens on 15/12/2010 18:52:01 Well, and it seems we have a range of possibilities. From folks not getting one at all (again, they know this, are fixing, anyone like this character will be fine) to people who have one available now getting an extra one (and I seem to think this has happened for vets and newer players alike) to players who have one now and still have one now, but only one. Seems like the remaps acted differently amongst players. I think we're all agreeing that an official explanation from CCP about what was intended is in order (with our thanks of course). Is it reset of timer (thus once used it starts the 12 month countdown) or is it +1 to total remaps available? Or is it something else entirely lol... Edit: Seems all I had to do was read a bit more before posting (of course...). Navigator has answered our (or at least my) question here. Seems that the free remap is intended to be a +1 to remaps for everyone. Thus, if you have 1, you'll have 2. Have 2, now you have 3. Have none, you now have 1. Awesome! That really is a Christmas gift! And thus, thank you CCP.
Miss Pristine	Posted - 2010.12.15 19:11:00 - [15] but if you wait a week or two till next remap anyway will you have 2 then?
Keira Matrix	Posted - 2010.12.15 19:47:00 - [16] Edited by: Keira Matrix on 15/12/2010 19:48:11 Originally by: Miss Pristine but if you wait a week or two till next remap anyway will you have 2 then? We know that you can have more than 1 stored remap ready for use. We know that the timer does not start until you have used all your stored remaps. We also know that the timer is not normally running if you have a stored remap available. We know that once the timer finishes it gives you a remap and then the timer is not displayed until you use that remap. So looking at what we know it's likely if you wait you will get another remap to use. If you use the remap before getting the next one then there's a high probability of resetting the timer. If we don't get an answer on this from a GM then it would be worth you waiting the two weeks to find out. And post your findings.
Fianna Illyasfeld Autistic Sharks Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.12.15 19:50:00 - [17] Still waiting for tomorrows patch before I get my remap. But, I got a remap coming up on the 30th of december and I would like to know an answer to this question as well.
Rasz Lin Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.12.15 20:03:00 - [18] +1, also wants to know. I suspect there was no answer in feedback thread cos GMs themselves dont know :~
Fianna Illyasfeld Autistic Sharks Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.12.15 20:23:00 - [19] The proper way to do this is to give everyone a truely free remap that does not affect any timers whatsoever so that no one gets advantages relative to others. If it turns out that this resets the timers then some people will get more advantages than others If you had a remap avalible, you will now have two. If you remapped 3 months ago you will get a new remap so you can do whatever you want with it. If you have a remap coming up within a week you will be shafted and the remap wont really do anything for you.
KurnKuku	Posted - 2010.12.15 20:25:00 - [20] You don't need a GM to answer this, just ask any noob. They have two to start, and if they use one, they still have one they can use. When you get to zero, the clock starts and you wait 12 months until you get another. It will be no different with the given one today.

Miss Pristine	Posted - 2010.12.15 20:27:00 - [21] Originally by: KurnKuku You don't need a GM to answer this, just ask any noob. They have two to start, and if they use one, they still have one they can use. When you get to zero, the clock starts and you wait 12 months until you get another. It will be no different with the given one today. Actually it could be very different. Depends on how it was implemented. Is it a gift we all can use or a gift for the ones that just remaped before the patch.
Riedle Minmatar Wayne's TV and Appliances	Posted - 2010.12.15 20:28:00 - [22] Originally by: KurnKuku You don't need a GM to answer this, just ask any noob. They have two to start, and if they use one, they still have one they can use. When you get to zero, the clock starts and you wait 12 months until you get another. It will be no different with the given one today. Next time read what you are responding to. For those that have a cool down timer on the remaps - is it reset by using this remap or not? Can you answer that???
Ashina Sito Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.12.15 20:30:00 - [23] Originally by: Tama Rens Edit: Seems all I had to do was read a bit more before posting (of course...). Navigator has answered our (or at least my) question here. Read the quoted above. This is the post that Tama linked to in case your not interested in clicking on the link and getting answers. Originally by: CCP Navigator Originally by: Vespoi Filar Previous to the 1.0.1 release I had a remap already available and unused. Does the Free Remap in 1.0.1 mean I now have 2? Or just the one that I hadn't used yet? Yes. If you had no remaps available we have given you a free remap so you now have one. If you had one available you will now have two. Please check the original post in this thread as there have been some issues with the free neural remap which will be fixed during downtime tomorrow.
Trocent Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2010.12.15 20:31:00 - [24] I have never remapped. I now have 3. Booya!
KurnKuku	Posted - 2010.12.15 20:31:00 - [25] Edited by: KurnKuku on 15/12/2010 20:32:39 Originally by: Miss Pristine Originally by: KurnKuku You don't need a GM to answer this, just ask any noob. They have two to start, and if they use one, they still have one they can use. When you get to zero, the clock starts and you wait 12 months until you get another. It will be no different with the given one today. Actually it could be very different. Depends on how it was implemented. Is it a gift we all can use or a gift for the ones that just remaped before the patch. Yes sorry I updated my post after you wrote yours, have a re read, I can imagine someone who was only a few weeks away feeling abit griefed that someone who was 11 months away got theirs also. Not sure now, but I bet the thread will ignite xD. Will be interesting to see how they did implement it.
Miss Pristine	Posted - 2010.12.15 20:34:00 - [26] Edited by: Miss Pristine on 15/12/2010 20:34:17 Originally by: Ashina Sito Originally by: Tama Rens Edit: Seems all I had to do was read a bit more before posting (of course...). Navigator has answered our (or at least my) question here. Doesnt really answer the question. Read the quoted above. This is the post that Tama linked to in case your not interested in clicking on the link and getting answers. Originally by: CCP Navigator Originally by: Vespoi Filar Previous to the 1.0.1 release I had a remap already available and unused. Does the Free Remap in 1.0.1 mean I now have 2? Or just the one that I hadn't used yet? Yes. If you had no remaps available we have given you a free remap so you now have one. If you had one available you will now have two. Please check the original post in this thread as there have been some issues with the free neural remap which will be fixed during downtime tomorrow. Doesnt really answer the question.
KurnKuku	Posted - 2010.12.15 20:35:00 - [27] Edited by: KurnKuku on 15/12/2010 20:37:34 Originally by: Riedle Originally by: KurnKuku You don't need a GM to answer this, just ask any noob. They have two to start, and if they use one, they still have one they can use. When you get to zero, the clock starts and you wait 12 months until you get another. It will be no different with the given one today. Next time read what you are responding to. For those that have a cool down timer on the remaps - is it reset by using this remap or not? Can you answer that??? I would think so yes, however I don't know for sure. Having updated my previous post you quoted, it does seem that some people will feel a bit like they have missed out if it does reset the clock. Eg, they only get 1 month benefit, whilst others get 11. This thread I feel may start another whinefest if how I think it is working is the case. Hopefully all they have done is hidden the clock, it is certainly not showing at the moment.
Daesis Wrack The Kairos Syndicate Transmission Lost	Posted - 2010.12.15 21:12:00 - [28] Do you really expect CCP to have thought this through? All they did was run "remaps++" on everyone. If you already have any remaps, you will not gain another one based on time elapsed. When you use your last, the next will become available in 12 months. Yeah, it isn't very fair when you compare someone who just a remap on Dec 10th to someone who would have been getting one on Dec 20th, but since when do we expect CCP to have done it right?
Selinate Amarr Wardens of the Void	Posted - 2010.12.15 21:14:00 - [29] I'm not going to reply to your actual post since I didn't read it, but if you want a reply from a GM, make a petition. If you've already made one, then be patient and wait. Don't post it on the forums expecting a response from a GM.
Sleekman Minmatar Capital Construction Research Pioneer Alliance	Posted - 2010.12.15 21:18:00 - [30] I had a boxing day remap coming, I would like the answer to this.

Doctor Ungabungas Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2010.12.15 21:19:00 - [31] I've never met a class of players with more of a sense of entitlement than Eve Online players. Walk it off you pussies.
Tama Rens	Posted - 2010.12.15 21:39:00 - [32] Originally by: Miss Pristine Doesnt really answer the question. Forgive me, I'm a bit slow. The post from Navigator that I linked to happened to answer my question. Ie, it's +1 remap to all is what CCP has intended for us. In my case, it means that on this character here, I get to remap earlier than my timer would otherwise allow. I remapped only about 3 weeks prior to the announcement regarding learning skills. Had I known, I'd have waited. Anyway, for Tama here, I get to dump my SP like I want to, then remap to a more optimal path without having to wait till endish of November next year. On my other characters (none of which were created under the new system of 2 remaps for new players) all have their original remap available to them. My reading of what Navigator said is that they will (after the planned fix tomorrow) then have 2 remaps available to them. Thus, I'll be able to remap two times before I hit the 12 month counter. New players with their 2 remaps should have 3 - again, I think I'm reading Navigator correctly. It would also seem that the max number of stacked remaps would be 3 (for new players still having their original 2). I'm hoping that others are in agreement with me so far based on what Navigator said (the post I linked to earlier). So, what question is left to be answered? Are you asking what happens to people who do not have a remap now (like Tama here) but whose timer will allow a remap very soon? Ie, will they get the +1 CCP intends for everyone PLUS a new one once the timer expires (again, I'm guessing here that the timer expires soonish)? I am not entirely sure I have discerned the answer, but I'm thinking that such characters would then have 2 remaps available. The free +1, and then the "next" or "second" one once the timer expires. Thoughts? Do folks suspect I've got this right?
KurnKuku	Posted - 2010.12.15 21:47:00 - [33] Originally by: Tama Rens Thoughts? Do folks suspect I've got this right? I REALLY hope you have got it right. There has been more than enough whining around here over the last few months.
Bugone	Posted - 2010.12.15 22:20:00 - [34] On one of my accounts, two of my characters have 3 remaps available, one character has no remaps available. I definitely have had 1 remap available on both for a long time, it might have been 12 months. I thought that prior to this patch that i wouldnt get the next 12 month remap until 12 months after i used my last remap. Only explanation i can come up with is i had 1 remap, i got a second one because its been 12 months since i used a remap, and a third one for the christmas gift. If thats true, i wonder if they have deliberately made the 12 monthly free remap stack, or if its a bug related to the Christmas gift ? /me runs of to quickly use all my three remaps at once before a GM tries tries to confiscate one of them.
Khamiz Catholic School for Boys	Posted - 2010.12.15 22:23:00 - [35] I just checked my accounts - all 3 chars were on remap cooldown. 2 chars didn't receive the remap yet, and for the 3rd, the CD just reset. That means, I don't get a free remap (which would be 1 year waiting saved - thats what everybody with available RPs gets), but instead just 3 month saving due to the early reset. To break even with others, I would need to have 2 remaps by the time my current CD runs out. In other words: if you had remap on CD, you get shafted, and the shorter the CD was, the more. While this isn't the end of the world, I'd still like to have the full benefit, in the same way that players with available remaps get it.
Bugone	Posted - 2010.12.15 22:28:00 - [36] Originally by: Khamiz In other words: if you had remap on CD, you get shafted, and the shorter the CD was, the more. I think you might be wrong, unless you can think of another explanation for the three remaps i mention above.
Miss Pristine	Posted - 2010.12.15 22:45:00 - [37] Edited by: Miss Pristine on 15/12/2010 22:47:30 Originally by: Selinate I'm not going to reply to your actual post since I didn't read it, but if you want a reply from a GM, make a petition. If you've already made one, then be patient and wait. Don't post it on the forums expecting a response from a GM. Obviously they wont respond, but posting with that seems to draw in a larger crowd... maybe one will have tried it. Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas I've never met a class of players with more of a sense of entitlement than Eve Online players. Walk it off you pussies. LOL, I dont care if I dont get it. Just want to know if its worth waiting for the current count down to finish or not. Past that Id just say your a douche bag.
Khamiz Catholic School for Boys	Posted - 2010.12.15 22:47:00 - [38] Edited by: Khamiz on 15/12/2010 22:49:57 Originally by: Bugone Originally by: Khamiz In other words: if you had remap on CD, you get shafted, and the shorter the CD was, the more. I think you might be wrong, unless you can think of another explanation for the three remaps i mention above. You missed the point. If you already had 2 remaps available, you get a 3rd one on top - which means 1 year waiting on a remap saved. Now, if you did NOT have a remap available, like me (my cooldown would have ended march 11th), you simply get the CD reset and have 1 remap available - which saves me a little under 3 month of waiting. So basically, by getting an extra remap on top of your existing ones, you save a bit over 9 month more than I do. To get the same "bang for the buck" that you get, I would need to get a free remap, and still get my current remap on march 11th, which would leave me with 2 available remaps on that day.
Bugone	Posted - 2010.12.15 22:57:00 - [39] Originally by: Khamiz You missed the point. If you already had 2 remaps available, you get a 3rd one on top - which means 1 year waiting on a remap saved. Now, if you did NOT have a remap available, like me (my cooldown would have ended march 11th), you simply get the CD reset and have 1 remap available - which saves me a little under 3 month of waiting. So basically, by getting an extra remap on top of your existing ones, you save a bit over 9 month more than I do. I believe i only had 1 remap available, i had not checked for a while, but i have reason to believe i had 2 prior to this patch. I suspect that one of the two free remaps i got from this patch is essential because i got one for "cooldown already served". So i believe your cooldown that ends on march 11th is still ticking down, or one of the two remaps i received in this patch will get taken away from me.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.12.15 23:05:00 - [40] http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3186/neenerneener.jpg _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts _

Bugone	Posted - 2010.12.15 23:07:00 - [41] Originally by: Akita T http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/3186/neenerneener.jpg Akita can you rmember when you last did a remap, was it over 12 months ago ?
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.12.15 23:10:00 - [42] Originally by: Bugone Akita can you rmember when you last did a remap, was it over 12 months ago ? Considering the attributes, namely 21/21/15/21/21 (+5 implants for all), or in other words, old 9/9/3cha/9/9, you can guess I never remapped _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts _
Tama Rens	Posted - 2010.12.15 23:19:00 - [43] Edited by: Tama Rens on 15/12/2010 23:21:05 Originally by: Akita T Considering the attributes, namely 21/21/15/21/21 (+5 implants for all), or in other words, old 9/9/3cha/9/9, you can guess I never remapped And I can't check to see if I'm in a similar boat to Akita (on my others, not Tama) as every one of my accounts has not gotten the remaps - I'm waiting to see after tomorrow's patch. Because two of mine have never remapped at all... Edit: Akita's picture would imply it is the +1 as I discerned from Navigator's post. That and something else too... (not gonna talk about - why mess it up?)
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.12.15 23:24:00 - [44] Originally by: Tama Rens Akita's picture would imply it is the +1 as I discerned from Navigator's post. That and something else too... (not gonna talk about - why mess it up?) It's not like we'd use them anyway But if we decided to use them, if we report it as a bug, it's not going to get fixed, and if we don't report it, it'll get fixed only if all the rest get fixed anyway. Meanwhile, we can giggle at it. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts _
Jejju	Posted - 2010.12.15 23:28:00 - [45] Let's get an answer to a simple question, from the players. Before this patch I had a remap available on 1 June 2011. If I use the 'free remap' tomorrow, will my next remap be available on 1 June 2011 or on 15 December 2011. Please don't just speculate or bull****. I want to hear from people with evidence.
Aenaenon Shadowed Command Fatal Ascension	Posted - 2010.12.15 23:32:00 - [46] Originally by: Jejju Let's get an answer to a simple question, from the players. Before this patch I had a remap available on 1 June 2011. If I use the 'free remap' tomorrow, will my next remap be available on 1 June 2011 or on 15 December 2011. Please don't just speculate or bull****. I want to hear from people with evidence. This is exactly what I want to know as well. I had a remap due in two months. I also have a set of skills I wouldn't mind remapping for if I would get another when it was scheduled. However, I would not want to have to wait a year to remap just to train those. Also, those that are scheduled a remap in the next week or two really get the shaft if all they got was a timer reset. They essentially aren't getting their free remap out of the update.
Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.12.15 23:33:00 - [47] Originally by: Jejju Please don't just speculate or bull****. I want to hear from people with evidence. Considering tomorrow is another patch specifically for this, even if somebody would actually have any evidence right now, it could be meaningless tomorrow. _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts _
Mia Restolo	Posted - 2010.12.15 23:40:00 - [48] Hope this gets sorted out, my main should have had his cooldown finish today iirc and ended up with saving almost 8 hours of cooldown! Only one remap available on him atm, actually getting an extra would have been extremely useful. Pretty much all of my alts received 2 remaps each, most were created before remapping so only had one before and are up to 3.
Daneel Trevize Black Viper Nomads	Posted - 2010.12.15 23:52:00 - [49] +1 want to know here, have 1 char that just finished the 12month cycle before the patch, has 2 remaps now, but other was a few weeks off and poking around the GUI doesn't say anything other that 'you are able to change your attributes every 12months' which is not a minimum but a maximum time limit.
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.12.15 23:54:00 - [50] Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas I've never met a class of players with more of a sense of entitlement than Eve Online players. Walk it off you pussies. +1 These forums and the stupid question asked prove that common sense does not come with intelligence.

Akita T Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2010.12.15 23:59:00 - [51] The most hilarious part of everything is that there was absolutely no point in granting any additional remaps in the first place. If they also added one free attribute point, then yeah, it would have made sense, since you'd have to distribute it somewhere. But since that didn't happen, and everybody is left with the exact same custom-remappable attributes like before, why grant an extra remap at all ? _ Make ISK\|\|Build\|\|React\|\|1k papercuts _
Amateratsu Caldari The Pegasus Project	Posted - 2010.12.16 00:51:00 - [52] Just done a remap on 1 of my alt characters who got the free remap. His remap timer reset to 1 year from today. So it seems you will not get another remap when your timer was previously sceduled to finish. So if you only have the 1 remap after todays patch, make the most of it as you won't get another for 1 year..... á
Riedle Minmatar Wayne's TV and Appliances	Posted - 2010.12.16 02:17:00 - [53] Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas I've never met a class of players with more of a sense of entitlement than Eve Online players. Walk it off you pussies. I was just asking the question. When is it whining to pose a legitimate question? Asswipe
Joss56 Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.12.16 02:29:00 - [54] Originally by: Amateratsu Just done a remap on 1 of my alt characters who got the free remap. His remap timer reset to 1 year from today. So if you only have the 1 remap after todays patch, make the most of it as you won't get another for 1 year..... This is the good answer. ________________________________________________ "You do realise you live on a globe, right? And that there places outside the USA/UK?"
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.12.16 03:46:00 - [55] My characters that i care most about were on timers for remaps and had plans that for the remaining time for things that they need to train first. An extra remap does a lot of good if you have one already.. that means that you can make plans optomized for less than a year period. Getting a remap sooner than expected does very little or no good at all if it is coming up quickly. Basically, if a game is giving out a gift , it should give it to all players evenly. Things can't be -exactly- even, but it would be very equal if all players got a remap without reseting their timer. Perhaps the CCP programmers were too lazy to figure a work out for that. But of course , using the excuse of laziness runs to the polar opposite of EXcellence. Do they consider themself's creating an excellent product or not? The alternative.. is to admit that the aren't lazy.. that they just don't care that they are treaing people unevenl... If that so .. come out and say that "We have a policy of treating players unevenly ... HTFU " If they feel like being that kind of company fine... but thats creating a sense of unecessary and preventable ill will If they are so lazy that they cannot fix the code to treat players evenly but come out with some "really would have liked to if we could" send notes to players with their original expiration date and allow them to petition for a stacked remap at that time. A stacker remap...just like player who had one available now recieved... that allows for the exact same flexiblity.
Linda Flamewalker	Posted - 2010.12.16 04:03:00 - [56] Originally by: Amateratsu Just done a remap on 1 of my alt characters who got the free remap. His remap timer reset to 1 year from today. So it seems you will not get another remap when your timer was previously sceduled to finish. So if you only have the 1 remap after todays patch, make the most of it as you won't get another for 1 year..... That is good to know. didnt want to be stuck with a year of charisma :) you saved me from a really painful time

CCP Spitfire	Posted - 2010.12.16 10:26:00 - [57] Hello everyone, Would just like to confirm that using your free remap will reset your remap timer. Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online

Amateratsu Caldari The Pegasus Project	Posted - 2010.12.16 10:30:00 - [58] What about if you don't use it, will you get another when the current timer expires? á
Commander Phoenix m3 Corp	Posted - 2010.12.16 10:35:00 - [59] Originally by: Amateratsu What about if you don't use it, will you get another when the current timer expires? I would like to know this too. If the current timer has been deleted as I now have 1 remap available then fine, but please let me know if I should remap now or wait till June when my original remap timer was due to end. ---------------------------- -It's a big rock. Can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big.
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2010.12.16 10:35:00 - [60] Originally by: Amateratsu What about if you don't use it, will you get another when the current timer expires? yeah, this. I'm supposed to get a remap tomorrow, i suppose i'm rather boned if this free remap overwrites my current timer _____________________ Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a forum, with the alt your alt could post like.

Commander Phoenix m3 Corp	Posted - 2010.12.16 10:38:00 - [61] Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Originally by: Amateratsu What about if you don't use it, will you get another when the current timer expires? yeah, this. I'm supposed to get a remap tomorrow, i suppose i'm rather boned if this free remap overwrites my current timer Well, tomorrow you can tell us if you get 2 remaps or not :D ---------------------------- -It's a big rock. Can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.12.16 10:46:00 - [62] Originally by: CCP Spitfire Hello everyone, Would just like to confirm that using your free remap will reset your remap timer. please let us know why if we all don't get the same free re-map but some of us just get a remap moved up a few months.. that this was a purposeful decision that made you feel like you were treating all equally and that is was the way you would plan the system if programmer effort were not an object. And if the decision was made to cut a few corners in developer time, please explain why you can't track our original timers and give us the remap that people who had one available got stacked and able to plan for most effective use of the next year. And if you can't do either... could you please explain we shouldn't consider a company that cuts corners against ideal notions of game play isn't developing a second rate attitude far from the notion of a commitment to excellence. You have many choices available... thee asiers would bge to give us our orininal dates by eve mail and allow us to petition for the free remap to stack on top of the one we get at the time due.
Jackie Fisher Syrkos Technologies Joint Venture Conglomerate	Posted - 2010.12.16 10:51:00 - [63] Originally by: CCP Spitfire Hello everyone, Would just like to confirm that using your free remap will reset your remap timer. So calling it a free remap is a little misleading for many players. In the case of the OP 6% of a free remap might be a more accurate name. Joint Venture Conglomerate
Sophie Vherokior	Posted - 2010.12.16 10:51:00 - [64] I have to say, this is not a very well thought out 'christmas present' at all. Next time consider just giving a bunch of free skillpoints. Amounts to the same thing in the end, and less hazzle and questions. /Soph
Noun Verber Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.16 10:59:00 - [65] Originally by: Jackie Fisher Originally by: CCP Spitfire Hello everyone, Would just like to confirm that using your free remap will reset your remap timer. So calling it a free remap is a little misleading for many players. In the case of the OP 6% of a free remap might be a more accurate name. You still get it before you were due for another one
Commander Phoenix m3 Corp	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:04:00 - [66] I think next year you shouldn't give anybody a Christmas present. Ungrateful lot that we are ;) ---------------------------- -It's a big rock. Can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big.
Hemmo Paskiainen Gallente Silver Snake Enterprise	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:12:00 - [67] Originally by: CCP Spitfire Hello everyone, Would just like to confirm that using your free remap will reset your remap timer. I have never remapped my character yet, exept yesterday after patch. Will this mean that i can still do 3 remaps after todays patch? In other words are we able to save & collect remaps? Fix Black Ops: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1204416
lolioverbidu	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:13:00 - [68] Originally by: CCP Spitfire Hello everyone, Would just like to confirm that using your free remap will reset your remap timer. That is really a terrible way to implement this feature. You will give some people an advantage over others. If you had 1 day left of your timer, your free remap will mean nothing at all!
HyperZerg	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:15:00 - [69] Originally by: Commander Phoenix I think next year you shouldn't give anybody a Christmas present. Ungrateful lot that we are ;) Maybe give every Gallente a 1kk free SP and the others 1 free SP and let us see how "ungrateful" many players are. I heard CCP gives everyone a free remap, but it seems they only give me a 0,04 free remaps.
Fianna Illyasfeld Autistic Sharks Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:16:00 - [70] So why are you calling it a FREE remap? Its not a FREE remap then! It is just a reset of your remap timer. God damn :/

Iamien Democracy of Klingon Brothers R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:16:00 - [71] Originally by: lolioverbidu Originally by: CCP Spitfire Hello everyone, Would just like to confirm that using your free remap will reset your remap timer. That is really a terrible way to implement this feature. You will give some people an advantage over others. If you had 1 day left of your timer, your free remap will mean nothing at all! I had almost 11 full months left, I'll be using it.
Fianna Illyasfeld Autistic Sharks Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:18:00 - [72] Edited by: Fianna Illyasfeld on 16/12/2010 11:18:46 Originally by: Commander Phoenix I think next year you shouldn't give anybody a Christmas present. Ungrateful lot that we are ;) You know, I would actually prefer it this way. My next remap was due in 15 days, and a reset won't really do anything for me except give everyone else a greater advantage compared to me.
Iamien Democracy of Klingon Brothers R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:19:00 - [73] Originally by: Fianna Illyasfeld Originally by: Commander Phoenix I think next year you shouldn't give anybody a Christmas present. Ungrateful lot that we are ;) You know, I would actually prefer it this way. My next remap was due in 10 days, and a reset won't really do anything for me except give everyone else a greater advantage compared to me. See if waiting 10 days will net you another remap?
Wiki Leaks	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:19:00 - [74] Well I'll be able to tell you in March what CCP Spitfire refused to tell you today. Best I can do I'm afraid.
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:20:00 - [75] Originally by: Commander Phoenix Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Originally by: Amateratsu What about if you don't use it, will you get another when the current timer expires? yeah, this. I'm supposed to get a remap tomorrow, i suppose i'm rather boned if this free remap overwrites my current timer Well, tomorrow you can tell us if you get 2 remaps or not :D I suppose I'll have to, if we don't hear from CCP first. still, i'd like to have two remaps. qq. _____________________ Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a forum, with the alt your alt could post like.
Fianna Illyasfeld Autistic Sharks Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:21:00 - [76] Edited by: Fianna Illyasfeld on 16/12/2010 11:22:22 You guys did not read the topic, He already confirmed that it resets the timer. Originally by: CCP Spitfire Hello everyone, Would just like to confirm that using your free remap will reset your remap timer. Edit: i get it depends on whether or not the timer is removed just by the presence of the free remap. We'll see when the servers come up.
Iamien Democracy of Klingon Brothers R.A.G.E	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:23:00 - [77] Edited by: Iamien on 16/12/2010 11:23:34 Originally by: Fianna Illyasfeld Edited by: Fianna Illyasfeld on 16/12/2010 11:22:22 You guys did not read the topic, He already confirmed that it resets the timer. Originally by: CCP Spitfire Hello everyone, Would just like to confirm that using your free remap will reset your remap timer. Edit: i get it depends on whether or not the timer is removed just by the presence of the free remap. We'll see when the servers come up. Using the free remap resets the timer. If you do not use the remap, the timer does NOT get reset. Edit: Bleh ninja edit I did not notice.
Fianna Illyasfeld Autistic Sharks Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:24:00 - [78] I really hope you are right about that
Staggerr Broski North	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:27:00 - [79] Originally by: Fianna Illyasfeld I really hope you are right about that You sound mad.
Boxless	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:28:00 - [80] Edited by: Boxless on 16/12/2010 11:28:39 Originally by: Staggerr Originally by: Fianna Illyasfeld I really hope you are right about that You sound mad. Testies always seem to be mad. the smallest inconvenience is a DISASTER that must be remedied.

Fianna Illyasfeld Autistic Sharks Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:29:00 - [81] Originally by: Staggerr Originally by: Fianna Illyasfeld I really hope you are right about that You sound mad. so randumb XD
Staggerr Broski North	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:31:00 - [82] Originally by: Boxless Edited by: Boxless on 16/12/2010 11:28:39 Originally by: Staggerr Originally by: Fianna Illyasfeld I really hope you are right about that You sound mad. Testies always seem to be mad. the smallest inconvenience is a DISASTER that must be remedied. He has a point tho. I now have 3 cyno alts, all with 3 remaps available, oh boy! My main will unlock its remap in march, if this remap is gonna overwrite and cancel the timer, I'll be mad also.
Jasdemi Caldari	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:34:00 - [83] I'm gonna rage if my timer will be reset.
Karia Sur	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:34:00 - [84] same with my main, he hasnt got a free remap, its just moved 20 days or so earlier than it was going to be. Which basically means every one got a brand new shiny toy for Xmas, but the batteries run out at varying timestages. meh.
Staggerr Broski North	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:35:00 - [85] Originally by: Karia Sur same with my main, he hasnt got a free remap, its just moved 20 days or so earlier than it was going to be. Which basically means every one got a brand new shiny toy for Xmas, but the batteries run out at varying timestages. meh. And the best part is that the new remap timer won't start untill you use this one. Meaning you'll be stuck with whatever you remap for for a whole year. Instead of let's say half a year, when you have trained what you wanted to train.
Keira Matrix	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:36:00 - [86] Originally by: Jasdemi I'm gonna rage if my timer will be reset. If you use the remap it will reset the timer (does not effect those with more than 1 remap as they should not have a timer).
Karia Sur	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:38:00 - [87] Originally by: Keira Matrix Originally by: Jasdemi I'm gonna rage if my timer will be reset. If you use the remap it will reset the timer (does not effect those with more than 1 remap as they should not have a timer). sooooooooooooooooooo, if i wait 20 days for the normal remap to appear, will it still appear and i'll then have 2?

CCP Spitfire	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:40:00 - [88] Looks like there is some confusion with how the whole system works. Please let me try to explain. From the UI perspective, there is no difference between "free" and regular remaps. Using a remap always resets the one-year timer until the next available one. However, the number of remaps does not increment unless you have 0 of them available or you get a free remap from us. Let's consider the following situations: 1. You have never remapped your character's attributes. As of today, you should have 3 available neural remaps (one that every character gets and two free ones given out by us). If you use one of them today, your one-year timer will start ticking. If a year later you have 0 available remaps, you will get the "regular" one; however, if you will still have available remaps by that date, you will not get an additional one. 2. You had no neural remaps until yesterday, when you have received 1 "free" neural remap. Your next "regular" remap is due on January 5, 2011. If you use your remap today, your timer will be reset, and you will receive your next remap on December 16, 2011. However, you will not get a "regular" remap on January 5, 2011, as you already have a remap available. TL;DR: As long as you have "free" / "bonus" remaps, you can ignore the timer completely. It only matters when you are out of remaps. I hope that makes sense. Spitfire Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online

Keira Matrix	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:41:00 - [89] Edited by: Keira Matrix on 16/12/2010 11:42:31 Deleted as Spitfire posted on this subject
Fianna Illyasfeld Autistic Sharks Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:41:00 - [90] Originally by: Karia Sur Originally by: Keira Matrix Originally by: Jasdemi I'm gonna rage if my timer will be reset. If you use the remap it will reset the timer (does not effect those with more than 1 remap as they should not have a timer). sooooooooooooooooooo, if i wait 20 days for the normal remap to appear, will it still appear and i'll then have 2? That is indeed the question.

Keira Matrix	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:44:00 - [91] Edited by: Keira Matrix on 16/12/2010 11:46:01 So in short using the remap resets the timer, but if you wait for the timer to complete you will not get another remap.
HyperZerg	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:46:00 - [92] Originally by: CCP Spitfire 2. You had no neural remaps until yesterday, when you have received 1 "free" neural remap. Your next "regular" remap is due on January 5, 2011. If you use your remap today, your timer will be reset, and you will receive your next remap on December 16, 2011. However, you will not get a "regular" remap on January 5, 2011, as you already have a remap available. So, In that case you only get 10% of a free remap ? I think you ill-conceived that one. It's unfair and you had NO CHANCE to know, that it had been better to remap a month early to get a full remap isntead of a 10%. Or shall we all petition till we get it on our regular date ?
Fianna Illyasfeld Autistic Sharks Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:46:00 - [93] Originally by: CCP Spitfire 2. You had no neural remaps until yesterday, when you have received 1 "free" neural remap. Your next "regular" remap is due on January 5, 2011. If you use your remap today, your timer will be reset, and you will receive your next remap on December 16, 2011. However, you will not get a "regular" remap on January 5, 2011, as you already have a remap available. TL;DR: As long as you have "free" / "bonus" remaps, you can ignore the timer completely. It only matters when you are out of remaps. I hope that makes sense. That really is a bad way to implement this feature. People with 1 remap avalible and people who had just recently remapped are getting a huge advantage compared to people who had only a few days left before they could remap. I am getting 15 days off my remap when instead I could have gotten one remap now, and then another one in 15 days when my original timer ran out. This is the difference between remapping for say....leadership skills and then spending 6 months to train it and then using my natural remap to remap back into something more useful. Its not really a FREE remap then as much as it is resetting the remap timer then now is it?
Staggerr Broski North	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:46:00 - [94] Originally by: CCP Spitfire >You had no neural remaps until yesterday, when you have received 1 "free" neural remap. Your next "regular" remap is due on January 5, 2011. >However, you will not get a "regular" remap on January 5, 2011, as you already have a remap available. So all of us with no remaps, who were waiting for it to unlock get a discount sort of speak. While everybody who already had one ready, ie no timer running, get a free remap. tl;dr: unfair (compared to other players) I hope you didn't make sense and I misunderstood ya.
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:47:00 - [95] Edited by: Mag''s on 16/12/2010 11:49:57 Well I for one, am glad that we are getting remaps for plex..... oh wait, yea that's right, the 'omg we are doomed' crew ended that one. Edit: CCP should have a fixed date when they hand out a remap for all, irrespective of what people have and have used. They should also accumulate. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
DeadSpacePool	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:47:00 - [96] Edited by: DeadSpacePool on 16/12/2010 11:49:30 Edited by: DeadSpacePool on 16/12/2010 11:48:32 So people who never remapped got + 2 People who already had 1 got + 1 People who had 0 got screwed ( depending on how close their original remap was due ) Any reason why not just give everyone 2 and not screw people?
Karia Sur	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:48:00 - [97] Edited by: Karia Sur on 16/12/2010 11:49:01 Originally by: CCP Spitfire 2. You had no neural remaps until yesterday, when you have received 1 "free" neural remap. Your next "regular" remap is due on January 5, 2011. If you use your remap today, your timer will be reset, and you will receive your next remap on December 16, 2011. However, you will not get a "regular" remap on January 5, 2011, as you already have a remap available. Yes the explanation makes sense, but its the biggest con that i can think of.
Wiki Leaks	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:51:00 - [98] Originally by: CCP Spitfire I hope that makes sense. The English words at least make sense. The mechanic does not.
dosperado Denial of Service Freelancer Coalition	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:52:00 - [99] Edited by: dosperado on 16/12/2010 11:51:58 Originally by: CCP Spitfire Looks like there is some confusion with how the whole system works. Please let me try to explain. 2. You had no neural remaps until yesterday, when you have received 1 "free" neural remap. Your next "regular" remap is due on January 5, 2011. If you use your remap today, your timer will be reset, and you will receive your next remap on December 16, 2011. However, you will not get a "regular" remap on January sorry but this is really useless and not a free remap why should someone remap earlier?? most of the players have a 1-year skill plan and they have no advantage from your so called free remap. give a real free remap or leave it as it is. ____________________ Security Status No.#1
lolioverbidu	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:52:00 - [100] Originally by: Mag's Edited by: Mag''s on 16/12/2010 11:49:57 Well I for one, am glad that we are getting remaps for plex..... oh wait, yea that's right, the 'omg we are doomed' crew ended that one. Edit: CCP should have a fixed date when they hand out a remap for all, irrespective of what people have and have used. They should also accumulate. Don't be ridiculous, this is not what this topic is about Originally by: DeadSpacePool Edited by: DeadSpacePool on 16/12/2010 11:49:30 Edited by: DeadSpacePool on 16/12/2010 11:48:32 So people who never remapped got + 2 People who already had 1 got + 1 People who had 0 got screwed ( depending on how close their original remap was due ) Any reason why not just give everyone 2 and not screw people? I think people who never remapped only got +1....you start with 2.

Commander Phoenix m3 Corp	Posted - 2010.12.16 11:58:00 - [101] I have characters that HAVE remapped before. Now they have 3 remaps available? I'm guessing maybe that one of the remaps that should have been added to another character (my main), instead got added to the alt? Oh well. No point crying over spilt milk. My next decision is whether to remap NOW or wait till it was originally planned to end in June. Some of my other characters have gotten 2 free remaps this update however so I'll use them to their full potential when the time comes. Just a shame that non of my main characters got the 2 free remaps. ---------------------------- -It's a big rock. Can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big.
Major Templar Caldari Steel Daggers Sev3rance	Posted - 2010.12.16 12:00:00 - [102] So all my toons that reset around the same time in January are all getting the shaft. Nice. While those who say, just had an available one just 1 to 2 months before the free one are getting an advantage over me. What a great sandbox this is. CCP giving unfair advantage to others. Major Templar Macabre Votum Morsus Mihi
Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.12.16 12:01:00 - [103] Originally by: lolioverbidu Originally by: Mag's Edited by: Mag''s on 16/12/2010 11:49:57 Well I for one, am glad that we are getting remaps for plex..... oh wait, yea that's right, the 'omg we are doomed' crew ended that one. Edit: CCP should have a fixed date when they hand out a remap for all, irrespective of what people have and have used. They should also accumulate. Don't be ridiculous, this is not what this topic is about You mad? Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
DeadSpacePool	Posted - 2010.12.16 12:03:00 - [104] Originally by: lolioverbidu Originally by: Mag's Originally by: DeadSpacePool Edited by: DeadSpacePool on 16/12/2010 11:49:30 Edited by: DeadSpacePool on 16/12/2010 11:48:32 So people who never remapped got + 2 People who already had 1 got + 1 People who had 0 got screwed ( depending on how close their original remap was due ) Any reason why not just give everyone 2 and not screw people? I think people who never remapped only got +1....you start with 2. Originally by: CCP Spitfire 1. You have never remapped your character's attributes. As of today, you should have 3 available neural remaps (one that every character gets and two free ones given out by us). If you use one of them today, your one-year timer will start ticking. If a year later you have 0 available remaps, you will get the "regular" one; however, if you will still have available remaps by that date, you will not get an additional one. suppose this means 2 original + 1 free, I read it 1 original + 2 free... Anyways that is not the problem, do not really care how many people got, the point is people who had 0, and had one coming in 1 - 365 days, get rolled over with this "free" remap. giving 2 to everyone would of solved this whole problem regardless of how many they gave to who...
Keira Matrix	Posted - 2010.12.16 12:05:00 - [105] When you think of it it's only the people that had their timers coming to an end that lost out in some way. Having 3 remaps does not bring that 4th one any nearer, the timer won't start until they use the 3rd one.
Im Blue	Posted - 2010.12.16 12:10:00 - [106] 6 accounts 18 toons all ranging randomly between 0 extra and 2 extra. i hope this makes everyone have 2 free remaps regardless of age and starting point.
The RipperToad	Posted - 2010.12.16 12:16:00 - [107] CCP poorly implementing something still shocks you people? Also, yes I am one of the people getting the shaft with the 'free' remap thing. At least I have this awesome new ship... wait.. it does what? Never mind. Brujah are going to be the new Achura, calling it now
Jeff simply	Posted - 2010.12.16 12:16:00 - [108] Originally by: Keira Matrix When you think of it it's only the people that had their timers coming to an end that lost out in some way. Having 3 remaps does not bring that 4th one any nearer, the timer won't start until they use the 3rd one. Indeed, and if I read Spitfire correctly, you won't get any extra ones unless you have 0 left by the time your counter reaches 0. It sucks (compared to other players) because I was thinking of remapping to Int/Mem to max Eng Elec and Mech skills and then go back to Per/Will but I don't think I want to pause my ship/missile skills for a year...
Caldariftw123	Posted - 2010.12.16 12:17:00 - [109] What the .. People are complaining that they are getting less than others, because they are getting a free remap now instead of having to wait for their timer? 2 Characters are born on the same day, both get 2 remaps at the same time. Character 1 who has up to this point never remapped now has 3, character 2 who used 2 remaps already and has anywhere from 1 day to 1 year to wait for next remap, now has 1 remap available now instead. Which character gets the most from this?!? NEITHER you entitlement-convinced-idiots, because they will ALL have had 3 remaps in total and equal opportunity to use those remaps. "but character 1 can now plan to use his short-term without worrying about a timer reset!" yeah and you remapped ages ago where he didn't, but your 3 remaps have lasted the exact same amount of time as his has. Whining whining whining this forum is full of ill thought out whining.
Bubbled	Posted - 2010.12.16 12:19:00 - [110] Originally by: Staggerr So all of us with no remaps, who were waiting for it to unlock get a discount sort of speak. While everybody who already had one ready, ie no timer running, get a free remap. tl;dr: unfair (compared to other players) I hope you didn't make sense and I misunderstood ya. Totally fair. All of the ppl who had one ready get another one as they saved the first one. All the others get one to use it when they want. It would be unfair for those who used it to get another one. Look at them as cookies All got one once, some eaten them, some saved them. All got another one now. Those who saved the first one now have two cookies. Got milk?

Staggerr Broski North	Posted - 2010.12.16 12:21:00 - [111] Originally by: Caldariftw123 What the .. People are complaining that they are getting less than others, because they are getting a free remap now instead of having to wait for their timer? 2 Characters are born on the same day, both get 2 remaps at the same time. Character 1 who has up to this point never remapped now has 3, character 2 who used 2 remaps already and has anywhere from 1 day to 1 year to wait for next remap, now has 1 remap available now instead. Which character gets the most from this?!? NEITHER you entitlement-convinced-idiots, because they will ALL have had 3 remaps in total and equal opportunity to use those remaps. "but character 1 can now plan to use his short-term without worrying about a timer reset!" yeah and you remapped ages ago where he didn't, but your 3 remaps have lasted the exact same amount of time as his has. Whining whining whining this forum is full of ill thought out whining. You are amazingly dumb for having typed out so many words. One person gets a free remap (translates to 12 months). The other person who was gonna unlock a remap in January gets it instantly (this translates to 1 month). How is one month equal to twelve.
DeadSpacePool	Posted - 2010.12.16 12:21:00 - [112] Originally by: Caldariftw123 What the .. People are complaining that they are getting less than others, because they are getting a free remap now instead of having to wait for their timer? 2 Characters are born on the same day, both get 2 remaps at the same time. Character 1 who has up to this point never remapped now has 3, character 2 who used 2 remaps already and has anywhere from 1 day to 1 year to wait for next remap, now has 1 remap available now instead. Which character gets the most from this?!? NEITHER you entitlement-convinced-idiots, because they will ALL have had 3 remaps in total and equal opportunity to use those remaps. "but character 1 can now plan to use his short-term without worrying about a timer reset!" yeah and you remapped ages ago where he didn't, but your 3 remaps have lasted the exact same amount of time as his has. Whining whining whining this forum is full of ill thought out whining. you obviously fail to read what this whol thread was about person 1 had a remap coming on the 20th of december person 2 had a remap coming next 20th october person 3 had a remap person 4 had never remapped person 1 "the shafted" gets a 5 day "free" pushed remap person 2 gets a huge pushed remap of 3xx days person 3 gets a full free 365 remap person 4 gets a full free 365 remap get the point?
lolioverbidu	Posted - 2010.12.16 12:23:00 - [113] You people complaining that we are whining are missing the point. Lets say someone remapped last year on the 14th of december, he will now have 2 remaps. While someone remapping last year on the 17th of december will still only have 1 remap. How is this fair? The fair way to do this was to not have the new remap affect the old remap timer, that way nobody would be shafted.
Commander Phoenix m3 Corp	Posted - 2010.12.16 12:25:00 - [114] Edited by: Commander Phoenix on 16/12/2010 12:26:08 Originally by: Caldariftw123 2 Characters are born on the same day, both get 2 remaps at the same time. Character 1 who has up to this point never remapped now has 3, character 2 who used 2 remaps already and has anywhere from 1 day to 1 year to wait for next remap, now has 1 remap available now instead. Which character gets the most from this?!? NEITHER you entitlement-convinced-idiots, because they will ALL have had 3 remaps in total and equal opportunity to use those remaps. "but character 1 can now plan to use his short-term without worrying about a timer reset!" yeah and you remapped ages ago where he didn't, but your 3 remaps have lasted the exact same amount of time as his has. Whining whining whining this forum is full of ill thought out whining. Except that some of my characters have had 4 now :p Used 2 remaps. got another one but didn't use it. After patch now have 3. :D -edit. OK. that's 5! ---------------------------- -It's a big rock. Can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big.
Mia Restolo	Posted - 2010.12.16 12:31:00 - [115] Originally by: CCP Spitfire ... 2. You had no neural remaps until yesterday, when you have received 1 "free" neural remap. Your next "regular" remap is due on January 5, 2011. If you use your remap today, your timer will be reset, and you will receive your next remap on December 16, 2011. However, you will not get a "regular" remap on January 5, 2011, as you already have a remap available. TL;DR: As long as you have "free" / "bonus" remaps, you can ignore the timer completely. It only matters when you are out of remaps. I hope that makes sense. So you're saying that the regular remap I should have gotten on the 15th was generously given during DT rather than 8 hours later?
Caldariftw123	Posted - 2010.12.16 12:33:00 - [116] Edited by: Caldariftw123 on 16/12/2010 12:35:19 Originally by: Staggerr Originally by: Caldariftw123 What the .. People are complaining that they are getting less than others, because they are getting a free remap now instead of having to wait for their timer? 2 Characters are born on the same day, both get 2 remaps at the same time. Character 1 who has up to this point never remapped now has 3, character 2 who used 2 remaps already and has anywhere from 1 day to 1 year to wait for next remap, now has 1 remap available now instead. Which character gets the most from this?!? NEITHER you entitlement-convinced-idiots, because they will ALL have had 3 remaps in total and equal opportunity to use those remaps. "but character 1 can now plan to use his short-term without worrying about a timer reset!" yeah and you remapped ages ago where he didn't, but your 3 remaps have lasted the exact same amount of time as his has. Whining whining whining this forum is full of ill thought out whining. You are amazingly dumb for having typed out so many words. One person gets a free remap (translates to 12 months). The other person who was gonna unlock a remap in January gets it instantly (this translates to 1 month). How is one month equal to twelve. Again read what I said: How many remaps has that person had in how many months? Right, exactly the same as the other guy, except you used yours earlier. READ. AGAIN. SLOWLY. Char 1 gets 2 remaps, char 2 gets 2 remaps, then they both get a free one. They've both had 3 remaps. One of them used some of theirs, the other did not, they still had the same number of remaps however. If you use your remap, your timer is reset, yes, does that screw you over? No. Why? Well if you think about it using the same basic logic .. char 1 now has 3, you have 1, you use yours and your timer is set to 12 months from now, char 1 uses all of their's at some point and has to wait 12 months for their next one. Let's say for some stupid reason they both use them all on the same day, so they then wait 12months for their next one. You've both still had the same number of remaps in the same time frame! Amazing how that works right? Now let's say more realistically you use yours but the other dude uses his over a period of time, then he waits a year for his next one which will come after you've already gotten yours - you are now ahead of him because you've gotten your fourth remap in less time than it takes for him to gets his fourth. Are you gaining much, you who has 1 month to wait for your next one anyway? No you aren't gaining much, just a month, but it's a month of free all the same, whereas the guy who has 3 still has the same amount of remaps in the same time frame as you, except his fourth one will come later. So in reality those that used their remaps are always going to get more remaps in a shorter time frame, than those that do not use their remaps. So in fact the ONLY pseudo-complaint people could have has NOTHING to do with those people that now have 3 remaps, but those that used all their remaps recently will now get their timer reset. This change benefits those that remapped recently the most and those that remapped later the least. Entitlement convinced idiots can't even complain about the only actual thing that "hurts" someone (IE you don't get AS MUCH as someone else) This whole "3 remaps dudeblahblah" thing is utter nonsense though :)
Fianna Illyasfeld Autistic Sharks Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.12.16 12:36:00 - [117] Originally by: Mia Restolo Originally by: CCP Spitfire ... 2. You had no neural remaps until yesterday, when you have received 1 "free" neural remap. Your next "regular" remap is due on January 5, 2011. If you use your remap today, your timer will be reset, and you will receive your next remap on December 16, 2011. However, you will not get a "regular" remap on January 5, 2011, as you already have a remap available. TL;DR: As long as you have "free" / "bonus" remaps, you can ignore the timer completely. It only matters when you are out of remaps. I hope that makes sense. So you're saying that the regular remap I should have gotten on the 15th was generously given during DT rather than 8 hours later? Yea, it unfortunatley seems that way
Staggerr Broski North	Posted - 2010.12.16 12:40:00 - [118] Your tl;dr version: Originally by: Caldariftw123 -in reality those that used their remaps are always going to get more remaps in a shorter time frame, than those that do not use their remaps. Here's a metaphor for you: If I don't drive my car I'm never going to have to refuel it. CCP is handing out free tanks of gas, somebody who never drives his car gets a full tank. The other person who happened to have half a tank at the time gets only half a tank. In other words: people who don't drive their car are rewarded. Moral of this story: don't drive a car.
Commander Phoenix m3 Corp	Posted - 2010.12.16 12:40:00 - [119] Edited by: Commander Phoenix on 16/12/2010 12:42:54 - ---------------------------- -It's a big rock. Can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big.
Fianna Illyasfeld Autistic Sharks Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.12.16 12:48:00 - [120] Seems like my character now has 2 remaps avalible! If this is intentionally, then CCP has redeemed themselves and done the right thing. **** yes! inb4 bug and removed.

Commander Phoenix m3 Corp	Posted - 2010.12.16 12:49:00 - [121] Originally by: Caldariftw123 Again read what I said: How many remaps has that person had in how many months? Right, exactly the same as the other guy, except you used yours earlier. READ. AGAIN. SLOWLY. Char 1 gets 2 remaps, char 2 gets 2 remaps, then they both get a free one. They've both had 3 remaps. One of them used some of theirs, the other did not, they still had the same number of remaps however. If you use your remap, your timer is reset, yes, does that screw you over? No. Why? Well if you think about it using the same basic logic .. char 1 now has 3, you have 1, you use yours and your timer is set to 12 months from now, char 1 uses all of their's at some point and has to wait 12 months for their next one. Let's say for some stupid reason they both use them all on the same day, so they then wait 12months for their next one. You've both still had the same number of remaps in the same time frame! Amazing how that works right? Now let's say more realistically you use yours but the other dude uses his over a period of time, then he waits a year for his next one which will come after you've already gotten yours - you are now ahead of him because you've gotten your fourth remap in less time than it takes for him to gets his fourth. Are you gaining much, you who has 1 month to wait for your next one anyway? No you aren't gaining much, just a month, but it's a month of free all the same, whereas the guy who has 3 still has the same amount of remaps in the same time frame as you, except his fourth one will come later. So in reality those that used their remaps are always going to get more remaps in a shorter time frame, than those that do not use their remaps. So in fact the ONLY pseudo-complaint people could have has NOTHING to do with those people that now have 3 remaps, but those that used all their remaps recently will now get their timer reset. This change benefits those that remapped recently the most and those that remapped later the least. Entitlement convinced idiots can't even complain about the only actual thing that "hurts" someone (IE you don't get AS MUCH as someone else) This whole "3 remaps dudeblahblah" thing is utter nonsense though :) What the difference is, is choice. those have have 2 remaps showing have a choice when to use them and can plan for it. My timer was set to expire in June, That remap has now become available now. I still have 6 months of Int/Mem skills that I need to train up before it's feasible to remap. After the 6 months has ended when my timer ends, I will not get an extra remap, my remap was due to end in June anyway, nothing has been gained surely? If I don't 'choose' to remap differently to what I'm currently mapped for, I will loose out of the free remap and I will be stuck mapped that way for a year, not 6 months. ---------------------------- -It's a big rock. Can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big.
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2010.12.16 12:59:00 - [122] The only thing I regret with this is the non-communication of this 'surprise'. My main remapped about 2 weeks ago for charisma, but as I don't wanted that many skills trained there I didn't go to the fullest with this.. 12 months can be long. Would I have known that I get a remap, then I would have had maxed this.. LOL. Oh well, you win some, you loose some. As for the people who had only some days/weeks left until their next remap.. yeah, you got butt-sex surprised with this too. My sympathy. support Public Idea Tracker \| 24hr PLEX
Karia Sur	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:02:00 - [123] CCP must have been taking lessons from Milla on how to scam people.
Daneel Trevize Black Viper Nomads	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:06:00 - [124] CCP, you suck.
Mia Restolo	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:06:00 - [125] Originally by: Mia Restolo So you're saying that the regular remap I should have gotten on the 15th was generously given during DT rather than 8 hours later? Well it seems my main squeaked under the wire and has two available now, maybe because of the fix basing itself on the old logs? Still leaves me confused about another character who had about 8 months to wait, I'm guessing he's going to get screwed... luckily I'm pretty much done his training plan anyway.
Staggerr Broski North	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:06:00 - [126] Well I've been ****ed over on 2 high SP characters. Petitions already send. A friend who had no remaps, and a timer running, actually received 2 free remaps. Well played CCP, well played.
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:07:00 - [127] I think all this rabble rabble was for naught, brotatos logged in to see that i have two remaps available, when previously i had zero and would receive a new one tomorrow afternoon. So...everyone who spent their remaps should be getting two, not one. Everyone who had one got bumped up to three. _____________________ Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a forum, with the alt your alt could post like.
Fianna Illyasfeld Autistic Sharks Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:12:00 - [128] Originally by: Chaos Incarnate I think all this rabble rabble was for naught, brotatos logged in to see that i have two remaps available, when previously i had zero and would receive a new one tomorrow afternoon. So...everyone who spent their remaps should be getting two, not one. Everyone who had one got bumped up to three. Im the same, but my m8 is still ****ed over.
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:13:00 - [129] Originally by: Fianna Illyasfeld Im the same, but my m8 is still ****ed over. they may have screwed up the fix for the initial gift screwup then _____________________ Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a forum, with the alt your alt could post like.
Commander Phoenix m3 Corp	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:19:00 - [130] Originally by: Chaos Incarnate I think all this rabble rabble was for naught, brotatos logged in to see that i have two remaps available, when previously i had zero and would receive a new one tomorrow afternoon. So...everyone who spent their remaps should be getting two, not one. Everyone who had one got bumped up to three. No. I didn't get 2. Only 1. So I have a choice. Do I stay with my current plan which ends in 6 months (When my yearly remap was due anyways) and waste the free 'timer reset'. Or do I remap now and be remapped in a way that will mean I have to wait 12 months before I can finish off this skill plan. ---------------------------- -It's a big rock. Can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big.


CCP Prism X Gallente C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:19:00 - [131] Originally by: Fianna Illyasfeld Originally by: Chaos Incarnate I think all this rabble rabble was for naught, brotatos logged in to see that i have two remaps available, when previously i had zero and would receive a new one tomorrow afternoon. So...everyone who spent their remaps should be getting two, not one. Everyone who had one got bumped up to three. Im the same, but my m8 is still ****ed over. Care to explain how you're messed over? My database tells me you have two respecs available to you? ~ CCP Prism X EVE Database Developer and Acting API Dude

Judicator Saturnius Amarr	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:20:00 - [132] Neural remaps are a stress for human brains and therefore should be performed not sooner than 1 year after the last one. And here some people suggest giving everyone 2 remaps, stacking them to unlimited numbers... OMG. Actually, the only reason why >1 remaps ever existed is because attribute distribution process had been moved from character creation process to let new players take a thoughtful action on this matter later on in the game. Remaps shouldn't stack, add e.t.c. And frankly speaking, the replacement of learning skills with static bonus didn't require any free remaps, because distribution of 14 points remained the same. Just the speed training have been reduced a bit, meaning people will complete their current plan a bit later and don't need a free remap. Oh, wait, for some people that change meant improved training speed... Ok, they will be able to train a bit more in their current remap, get an extra skill to level V or something. P.S. I had all Learning Skills at level V and therefore my training speed is now reduced. My usual remap was supposed to be available on the 7-th of January. To sum up, I had a couple of really "awesome" presents. But I still managed to get as much of this situation as I could, postponed some skills for a year, applied reimbursed SP to stuff like Leadership and so on.
Wiki Leaks	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:20:00 - [133] Originally by: CCP Prism X Originally by: Fianna Illyasfeld Originally by: Chaos Incarnate I think all this rabble rabble was for naught, brotatos logged in to see that i have two remaps available, when previously i had zero and would receive a new one tomorrow afternoon. So...everyone who spent their remaps should be getting two, not one. Everyone who had one got bumped up to three. Im the same, but my m8 is still ****ed over. Care to explain how you're messed over? My database tells me you have two respecs available to you? Because we don't have contact folders.
Fianna Illyasfeld Autistic Sharks Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:22:00 - [134] Originally by: CCP Prism X Originally by: Fianna Illyasfeld Originally by: Chaos Incarnate I think all this rabble rabble was for naught, brotatos logged in to see that i have two remaps available, when previously i had zero and would receive a new one tomorrow afternoon. So...everyone who spent their remaps should be getting two, not one. Everyone who had one got bumped up to three. Im the same, but my m8 is still ****ed over. Care to explain how you're messed over? My database tells me you have two respecs available to you? Not me, but my mate(m8 = mate) Staggerr is.
Staggerr Broski North	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:22:00 - [135] Originally by: Fianna Illyasfeld Not me, but my mate(m8 = mate) Staggerr is. I'm not your mate, pal.
Gnulpie Minmatar Miner Tech	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:27:00 - [136] That all is pretty confusing.

CCP Prism X Gallente C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:27:00 - [137] Your mate also has a free respec. He hadn't earned another one through waiting so he only has one. As to the contact folders: I'm getting rather tired of people thinking that I make game design decisions. I'm a programmer, my just is implementation of decisions made by others. I also like to be active in the community and pass on information when I think it is relevant. I'll say it again: Something had to be dropped from the refactoring due to time constraint. We had to pick and chose. Such is life. You win some, you lose some. I guess that should tell me to stop whining over being blamed for this. I lose. ~ CCP Prism X EVE Database Developer and Acting API Dude

Hagbard23Celine Evoke. Ev0ke	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:28:00 - [138] Sry CCP but this is sht. My plan was made until march 2011 and now I got a "free" remap which I can use for what? Right remap in March 2011 . If you are talking about free remaps give ppl with one remap available one additional and ppl with no ramap available 2 remaps or don't reset the remap counter. Your solution is good for ppl who had already one remap available or for ppl who have done some bad job and made a bad plan. ppl with a good skillque (and doing a complete skillque for one year isn't that easy) are totaly fued.
Steijn Minmatar Quay Industries	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:32:00 - [139] Originally by: Gnulpie That all is pretty confusing. its a complete cluster**** If your lucky you got a freebie, if your unlucky - tough. Im just glad i havent screwed up my training for 12 months trying to 'fast train' a few skills before my expected remap became available in early Jan. Must admit i nearly did, but glad i didnt as id now be stuck with it for the next year.
Commander Phoenix m3 Corp	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:33:00 - [140] This is not sarcastic. Thanks CCP for the free remap/timer reset, whatever it is/should have been called. A benefit is still a benefit. Just up to me now to choose what to do with it. ---------------------------- -It's a big rock. Can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big.

EffBee Primus Caldari DCS Ltd	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:34:00 - [141] I have 3 characters on each of 3 accounts and have never ventured into the area of remapping. All nine of my characters have 3 remaps each. I guess I should start using them. But I am confused - even after skim reading this thread. 1) What does the timer time? Time till I can do another remap? Time till next remap given to me? Other? 2) I THINK I can do 3 remaps anytime I want, but after the last one will have to wait a year for the next. 3) Will I ever lose a remap if I don't use it. Most of my training happens with a main on each account. A little with a secondary support character on each account. Practically none on the third character on each account. I need to get this right so I don't accidentally screw my mains with a bad attribute setup for a year. Thanks Proud to be a CareBear
Commander Phoenix m3 Corp	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:37:00 - [142] Originally by: EffBee Primus I have 3 characters on each of 3 accounts and have never ventured into the area of remapping. All nine of my characters have 3 remaps each. I guess I should start using them. But I am confused - even after skim reading this thread. 1) What does the timer time? Time till I can do another remap? Time till next remap given to me? Other? 2) I THINK I can do 3 remaps anytime I want, but after the last one will have to wait a year for the next. 3) Will I ever lose a remap if I don't use it. Most of my training happens with a main on each account. A little with a secondary support character on each account. Practically none on the third character on each account. I need to get this right so I don't accidentally screw my mains with a bad attribute setup for a year. Thanks 1> your timer will not start untill you have used up all your remaps. 2> correct 3> No ---------------------------- -It's a big rock. Can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big.
Staggerr Broski North	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:38:00 - [143] Originally by: CCP Prism X Your mate also has a free respec. He hadn't earned another one through waiting so he only has one. Oh boy, oh boy. Well since you like programming so much ill try to talk in your language, bare with me: if remap then +1 remap if no remap and remap timer <1month then +2 remap (to compensate for the 'but only 1 month left, bawww' factor. Instead of not removing the timer.) if no remap and remap timer >1month then +1 remap (also known as, if you happened to have 2 months on timer you're ****ed over. You fell off the boat. Sorry, we're just too bad at programming to help)

CCP Prism X Gallente C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:38:00 - [144] Perhaps it is important to re-iterate on this: The reason people who already had an implicit respec (after waiting for a year or more) got TWO is because if they'd only gotten ONE they would actually have gotten ZERO. Explanation: They'd already earned ONE through waiting. This is an indisputable fact. The reason they get TWO is because when they remap, they lose ONE free respec and the timer is UPDATED. If they had been set to ONE free respec that would leave them at ZERO and with a refreshed timestamp. That's ONE respec they can do after having earned one through waiting and getting another one from us. Those that had not earned anything have their free respec. You can chose to use it whenever you want but when you gain a new one through waiting it's not going to increment that numbers. You cannot hoard free respecs by design. Again: If you had no respecs you were, effectively, reset a year back giving you a respec. If you were already a year back resetting you a year back would give you nothing. Please bear in mind that waiting for two years does not grant you two respecs. They do not accrue! ~ CCP Prism X EVE Database Developer and Acting API Dude

Steijn Minmatar Quay Industries	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:38:00 - [145] Originally by: EffBee Primus I have 3 characters on each of 3 accounts and have never ventured into the area of remapping. All nine of my characters have 3 remaps each. I guess I should start using them. But I am confused - even after skim reading this thread. 1) What does the timer time? Time till I can do another remap? Time till next remap given to me? Other? 2) I THINK I can do 3 remaps anytime I want, but after the last one will have to wait a year for the next. 3) Will I ever lose a remap if I don't use it. Most of my training happens with a main on each account. A little with a secondary support character on each account. Practically none on the third character on each account. I need to get this right so I don't accidentally screw my mains with a bad attribute setup for a year. Thanks 1) the timer times the amount of time until you are given a new standard free remap. 2) yes 3) unofficially i heard you can never have more than 5 but could be completely wrong about this.
Steijn Minmatar Quay Industries	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:41:00 - [146] Originally by: CCP Prism X Those that had not earned anything have their free respec. You can chose to use it whenever you want but when you gain a new one through waiting it's not going to increment that numbers. You cannot hoard free respecs by design. I disagree with this point, in my case you havent given me anything FREE, all you have done is move my remap date by around 20 days or so.
spyor	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:44:00 - [147] LOLZ... petrol can out, tin foil hat on :) /me hazzz 3 available for my characters

CCP Prism X Gallente C C P C C P Alliance	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:47:00 - [148] Edited by: CCP Prism X on 16/12/2010 13:47:18 Originally by: Steijn Originally by: CCP Prism X Those that had not earned anything have their free respec. You can chose to use it whenever you want but when you gain a new one through waiting it's not going to increment that numbers. You cannot hoard free respecs by design. I disagree with this point, in my case you havent given me anything FREE, all you have done is move my remap date by around 20 days or so. Yes, I understand your point and can appreciate that you want a free respec. I'm not telling you the design is flawless, but the implementation is by design. You respecced later than someone else, you do not get a respecc but he might. You subscribed before someone else, you got the Echelon, he might not. Not perfect, perhaps not just and I'll leave that up for philosophical debate but certainly gave everyone the possibility of respeccing now. ~ CCP Prism X EVE Database Developer and Acting API Dude

Staggerr Broski North	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:49:00 - [149] Originally by: CCP Prism X Edited by: CCP Prism X on 16/12/2010 13:47:18 Originally by: Steijn Originally by: CCP Prism X Those that had not earned anything have their free respec. You can chose to use it whenever you want but when you gain a new one through waiting it's not going to increment that numbers. You cannot hoard free respecs by design. I disagree with this point, in my case you havent given me anything FREE, all you have done is move my remap date by around 20 days or so. Yes, I understand your point and can appreciate that you want a free respec. I'm not telling you the design is flawless, but the implementation is by design. You respecced later than someone else, you do not get a respecc but he might. You subscribed before someone else, you got the Echelon, he might not. Not perfect, perhaps not just and I'll leave that up for philosophical debate but certainly gave everyone the possibility of respeccing now. Sigh. Then why did some people, with no remaps available and their running timer nearing complete, get TWO free remaps.
Aunty Nora	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:51:00 - [150] IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN ONE REMAP, YOU DO NOT HAVE TO WAIT FOR THE TIMER

Wiki Leaks	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:51:00 - [151] Originally by: CCP Prism X As to the contact folders: I'll say it again: Something incredibly useful had to be removed from the game so a lot of useless stuff could be added. We had to hack and slash. Such is life. You lose some, you lose more. I guess that should tell me to go and get this fixed. But I'm CCP, we don't do that.
Steijn Minmatar Quay Industries	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:52:00 - [152] Originally by: CCP Prism X Edited by: CCP Prism X on 16/12/2010 13:47:18 Originally by: Steijn Originally by: CCP Prism X Those that had not earned anything have their free respec. You can chose to use it whenever you want but when you gain a new one through waiting it's not going to increment that numbers. You cannot hoard free respecs by design. I disagree with this point, in my case you havent given me anything FREE, all you have done is move my remap date by around 20 days or so. Yes, I understand your point and can appreciate that you want a free respec. I'm not telling you the design is flawless, but the implementation is by design. You respecced later than someone else, you do not get a respecc but he might. You subscribed before someone else, you got the Echelon, he might not. Not perfect, perhaps not just and I'll leave that up for philosophical debate but certainly gave everyone the possibility of respeccing now. I think the biggest fault that you have with regards to this is once again, lack of confirmation/communication initially from CCP. Anyone in the same position as myself with only days/weeks to the expected remap, could have used that free remap yesterday and still expected to gain the expected 1. They are then stuck with the attributes they remapped to for a year. I agree that implementing it to be fair isnt easy, but you could have explained it in far better detail before anyone had the chance to screw it up.
Brian Ballsack	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:53:00 - [153] Edited by: Brian Ballsack on 16/12/2010 13:53:49 ups
Staggerr Broski North	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:54:00 - [154] Originally by: Steijn I agree that implementing it to be fair isnt easy Add one remap. Don't touch the timer if one is running. How is that 'not easy'. Everybody would had been rewarded equally, but I'll assume Eve is coded so that they can't simply add a remap without disturbing the timer.
Hagbard23Celine Evoke. Ev0ke	Posted - 2010.12.16 13:57:00 - [155] Originally by: Staggerr Originally by: Steijn I agree that implementing it to be fair isnt easy Add one remap. Don't touch the timer if one is running. How is that 'not easy'. Everybody would had been rewarded equally, but I'll assume Eve is coded so that they can't simply add a remap without disturbing the timer. I fully agree with this, this would be the way how to give a "free" remap!
Wiki Leaks	Posted - 2010.12.16 14:02:00 - [156] Originally by: Hagbard23Celine Originally by: Staggerr Originally by: Steijn I agree that implementing it to be fair isnt easy Add one remap. Don't touch the timer if one is running. How is that 'not easy'. Everybody would had been rewarded equally, but I'll assume Eve is coded so that they can't simply add a remap without disturbing the timer. I fully agree with this, this would be the way how to give a "free" remap! And that's why you will never work for CCP. Imagine how the console kiddies are gonna feel with Dust514, and they try to reload their guns.... Anybody reloading with 1 or more bullets left are gonna feel robbed when they get nothing but cannot reload again for a year, while all their buddies who ran their clips dry get a fresh magazine to empty skywards...
Commander Phoenix m3 Corp	Posted - 2010.12.16 14:03:00 - [157] Edited by: Commander Phoenix on 16/12/2010 14:06:40 Just wondering with what has been said. How this is possible? to point out. This character has done remaps in the past but still has 3 remaps available? ---------------------------- -It's a big rock. Can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big.
RAW23	Posted - 2010.12.16 14:03:00 - [158] Edited by: RAW23 on 16/12/2010 14:03:57 Originally by: Hagbard23Celine ***** Nice name! Fnord.
Shpenat	Posted - 2010.12.16 14:06:00 - [159] I would like to thank CCP Spitfire and CCP Prism X for mechanics clarification. I will try to rewrite it here with little explanation why did it happen this way (as i understand it from their posts). The mechanics works this way: 1) each time you use a remap the 1 year counter is started/reseted. 2) when the counter reach zero time it checks the amount of your remaps available 3) if the remaining amount reads 0 it adds +1. if it reads anything else, it does nothing. This way you can start with any number of remaps, but will never get more than 1 after a year of waiting. Now the idea was to give each character a possibility to remap after the learning skills were removed. But the programmers were given only very short time to implement it. the easiest way to do it is to add +1 to the current remap counter. This way no remap mechanics will be broken and the intensive testing of the change will not be needed. As the result the people who remapped shortly before the change was applied get a new remap, however people who had just few hours left get nothing (few hours bonus). Is it fair? Well .... not really. But it is much better than accidentally breaking something and then have to hunt the bug for several days and deal with more whinig about it.
Keira Matrix	Posted - 2010.12.16 14:07:00 - [160] Originally by: CCP Prism X Not perfect, perhaps not just and I'll leave that up for philosophical debate but certainly gave everyone the possibility of respeccing now. Very true, and more than what a lot of us was expecting. I for one saw no reason in the first place to hand out a remap. So it was a bonus, maybe not an equal bonus but a bonus anyway.

Commander Phoenix m3 Corp	Posted - 2010.12.16 14:08:00 - [161] Originally by: Keira Matrix Originally by: CCP Prism X Not perfect, perhaps not just and I'll leave that up for philosophical debate but certainly gave everyone the possibility of respeccing now. Very true, and more than what a lot of us was expecting. I for one saw no reason in the first place to hand out a remap. So it was a bonus, maybe not an equal bonus but a bonus anyway. I agree :) ---------------------------- -It's a big rock. Can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big.
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2010.12.16 14:16:00 - [162] Quoting myself from a thread in the Skill Discussion forum: So in summary: 1) Never remapped -> 3 available 2) Remapped more than a year ago ->2 available 3) Remapped within a year before 15 Dec 2010 -> 1 available 4) Remapped between 15 and 16 Dec 2010 DTs ->2 available
Captain Mastiff	Posted - 2010.12.16 14:16:00 - [163] This is rather unfair. For both my accounts I had remaps coming up in the next two months. Long awaited remaps, however due to this silly little "free gift" which on balance is not balanced at all. For anyone who had their remap timer complete before the 15th and didn't spend it now has 2 remaps, for anyone who waited 11 months and was on the final stretch of their remap phase now only has one remap and can only use that once and has to wait an entire year for another. A very poorly implemented system and very annoying that CCP didn't think about this. How hard can it be to just give everyone who was due a remap in a month or two month another remap then? Rather than allowing people to stack up 2/3 remaps. Why has CCP even given a free remap out? Yet alone made it unfair on half* population of Eve. * Figure pulled out of my ass
Commander Phoenix m3 Corp	Posted - 2010.12.16 14:28:00 - [164] Edited by: Commander Phoenix on 16/12/2010 14:29:29 Originally by: Claire Voyant Quoting myself from a thread in the Skill Discussion forum: So in summary: 1) Never remapped -> 3 available 2) Remapped more than a year ago ->2 available 3) Remapped within a year before 15 Dec 2010 -> 1 available 4) Remapped between 15 and 16 Dec 2010 DTs ->2 available incorrect. see my second but last post up a few posts with the image. ---------------------------- -It's a big rock. Can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big.
Linda Flamewalker	Posted - 2010.12.16 14:31:00 - [165] sighs so if this had been released 2 months later i could do what i first planned when i saw the respec. do a quick respec to charisma and max out my PI skills and then go back to my normal training (since i am getting my respec in early february and would then have 2) as it is now.. i get a stick in the eye basically.. Thanks ccp. i can respec earlier.. oh wait.. that is pointless for me since i wasnt planning on changing my respec for quite some time.. Gotcha.... dont call it free when it is anything but.. and no i dont care how the game handles it, i care about how we as humans see the word "free" and you should have realised people would get.. rightly so.. upset.i know HTFU and all those cool slogans that make really bad marketing in the end for anything but the hardcore crowd that wouldnt leave for anything anyway.
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2010.12.16 14:34:00 - [166] Originally by: Captain Mastiff This is rather unfair. snip It is, now dust yourself off and keep on doing whatever you where doing. support Public Idea Tracker \| 24hr PLEX
KaarBaak Minmatar Seatec Astronomy	Posted - 2010.12.16 14:34:00 - [167] Originally by: Shpenat But the programmers were given only very short time to implement it. But wasn't that the purpose of the delayed release? To ensure that a quality product was released? KB Circumstances rule men; men do not rule circumstances. --Herodotus, Histories
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2010.12.16 14:37:00 - [168] Originally by: Commander Phoenix incorrect. see my second but last post up a few posts with the image. I see it now. Do you have any more information you can supply? When was the last remap? What did it look like before Dec 15 DT? What did it look like after Dec 15 DT? When was that screenshot taken? How old is the character? Are you sure that that character has remapped in the past? (given that it is remapped for drones, I'm thinking you would remember that decision, but I'll ask anyway.)
Captain Mastiff	Posted - 2010.12.16 14:37:00 - [169] Originally by: Linda Flamewalker sighs I agree, if I had remapped 13 months ago I wouldn't be in this problem and in fact I would be able to remap to max out Charisma skills to then remap back to my next year plan. However since I was a month off a remap timer completing on one of my accounts I am now just left with 1 remap that once used takes another year to do. It really isn't balanced and has given a large portion of Eve the benefit of remapping for a month for a few large skills and then back to whatever else they want. So poorly done, hopefully CCP will find the need to address this sooner rather than later. Not only have they removed one of the only "diverse" things about skill training to differentiate you from the person who didn't train his learning skills they've gone and given a bunch of people the opportunity to max the crap out of a skill set in a month and change to another remap. I would like to see a fix to make this fairer on the rest of Eve who did have a remap timer completing whether it be 11 months and 29 days away or not it would only be fair to allow them to have a 2nd remap point on the anniversary date.
Riedle Minmatar Wayne's TV and Appliances	Posted - 2010.12.16 14:37:00 - [170] Thanks for the explanation CCP. I am one of those that had a remap coming up soonish, but I am not one to look a gift horse in the mouth. So thanks for the patch and the explanation wrt to remap. To the rest of you, HTFU.

Mia Restolo	Posted - 2010.12.16 14:42:00 - [171] Originally by: Commander Phoenix Edited by: Commander Phoenix on 16/12/2010 14:06:40 Just wondering with what has been said. How this is possible? Removed image, see up a few posts to point out. This character has done remaps in the past but still has 3 remaps available? Originally by: Claire Voyant Quoting myself from a thread in the Skill Discussion forum: So in summary: 1) Never remapped -> 3 available 2) Remapped more than a year ago ->2 available 3) Remapped within a year before 15 Dec 2010 -> 1 available 4) Remapped between 15 and 16 Dec 2010 DTs ->2 available 2A) Remapped more than a year ago but still had one left over from character created after remaps introduced -> 3 available I have one alt with min/maxed stats and 3 remaps. The "add remap" code obviously worked as intended when remaps were introduced and no one had any, resulting in a +1. Using the same code again to give a "bonus" remap didn't quite work the same, especially with timers running.
Captain Mastiff	Posted - 2010.12.16 14:43:00 - [172] Originally by: Riedle Thanks for the explanation CCP. I am one of those that had a remap coming up soonish, but I am not one to look a gift horse in the mouth. So thanks for the patch and the explanation wrt to remap. To the rest of you, HTFU. Ah well, I am one of those who are concerned why I receive a pair of socks for Christmas as a "gift" where as a large portion of Eve received a pair of socks and boxer shorts. Can't deal with people complaining, HTFU
Scramilton Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2010.12.16 14:51:00 - [173] Can't deal with people complaining, HTFU It's called criticism of a broken system. We care about the game and want to make it better.
heheheh Phoenix Club	Posted - 2010.12.16 14:51:00 - [174] Seems alot of people are having problems understanding the explanaiton.
Staggerr Broski North	Posted - 2010.12.16 14:52:00 - [175] Originally by: heheheh Seems alot of people are having problems understanding the explanaiton. Yeah nobody explained how some people got 2 free remaps yet (lot of people with the timer running out soon, did).
Choujinburi Gallente Institute for Technology Advancement	Posted - 2010.12.16 14:55:00 - [176] Haha wow, this is brilliant. "WAHHH YOU DIDNT GIVE ME ANYTHING FREE YOU ONLY MOVED MY REMAP DATE" Get over yourself, EVE isn't fair, shut up and be grateful for what you got you little turds.
Captain Mastiff	Posted - 2010.12.16 14:58:00 - [177] Edited by: Captain Mastiff on 16/12/2010 15:00:58 Edited by: Captain Mastiff on 16/12/2010 14:59:59 Originally by: Choujinburi Haha wow, this is brilliant. "WAHHH YOU DIDNT GIVE ME ANYTHING FREE YOU ONLY MOVED MY REMAP DATE" Get over yourself, EVE isn't fair, shut up and be grateful for what you got you little turds. Lol... Wait you didn't really give me anything free but you gave a lot of other people the ability to stack remaps again. Now they optimise for a short time and revert back to what they want. I think it's something reasonable to WAHHHHH about. Originally by: Staggerr Originally by: heheheh Seems alot of people are having problems understanding the explanaiton. Yeah nobody explained how some people got 2 free remaps yet (lot of people with the timer running out soon, did). Not sure if its a troll or not but... Remap anniversary before 15th of december in which you didn't spend that 1 remap point - You now have 2 remaps available. Remap anniversary after 15th of december - You now have 1 remap and no remap anniversary until you use that remap. Never used a remap - 3 remaps available (2 on a brand new account) So those who had remaps afterwards are significantly shafted as everyone else has received a massive bonus of being able to remap twice or more. You (I) can only remap once and have to wait the year cycle as our remap anniversaries mean nothing until we have 0 remaps available. For the case where some people claim to have got more remaps than they should have, could be a number of things... i.e they had one already, had an anniversary expiring just before. Or they really did get more remaps and CCP screwed up once again.
Karia Sur	Posted - 2010.12.16 15:06:00 - [178] Originally by: Choujinburi Haha wow, this is brilliant. "WAHHH YOU DIDNT GIVE ME ANYTHING FREE YOU ONLY MOVED MY REMAP DATE" Get over yourself, EVE isn't fair, shut up and be grateful for what you got you little turds. id rather be a little one than like yourself.
Caldariftw123	Posted - 2010.12.16 15:07:00 - [179] Originally by: Captain Mastiff Edited by: Captain Mastiff on 16/12/2010 14:50:12 Originally by: Riedle Thanks for the explanation CCP. I am one of those that had a remap coming up soonish, but I am not one to look a gift horse in the mouth. So thanks for the patch and the explanation wrt to remap. To the rest of you, HTFU. Ah well, I am one of those who are concerned why I receive a pair of socks for Christmas as a "gift" where as a large portion of Eve received a pair of socks and boxer shorts. Can't deal with people complaining, HTFU I would of quite liked training for Leadership based skills using the free remap but finding out my anniversary date is now wiped renders that all completely **ing useless now. So once again thanks CCP for giving a gift which unbalances it for a bunch of people. So if they gave NO gift, you'd have been happier? Is it a case of "If I can't have it then noone should" bawbaw etc. lots of things in EVE have been and continue to be unfair, it's the way of EVE. How ** would this game suddenly be if CCP said "Right, we're fed up of moaning everytime we try do something for people, so from now on we wont give anything away, no ships no maps no nothing ever again because if it's not 100% fair to 100% of the people there's always someone complaining, it's much safer to just never do anything good."
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2010.12.16 15:10:00 - [180] Originally by: Captain Mastiff Ah well, I am one of those who are concerned why I receive a pair of socks for Christmas as a "gift" where as a large portion of Eve received a pair of socks and boxer shorts. You know, considering that in this metaphorical Christmas 'socks' means 'between 0 and 5.4 million skillpoints, a free ship as well as potentially some attribute points', i think you're coming across as a bit needy also, assuming you had a metaphorical mother in this metaphorical christmas, she'd be non-metaphorically telling you to be happy with the gifts you got rather than angry about the ones you didn't. Then everyone would drink hot cocoa and understand the true meaning of Christmas. _____________________ Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a forum, with the alt your alt could post like.

Captain Mastiff	Posted - 2010.12.16 15:12:00 - [181] Edited by: Captain Mastiff on 16/12/2010 15:15:00 Originally by: Caldariftw123 Originally by: Captain Mastiff Edited by: Captain Mastiff on 16/12/2010 14:50:12 Originally by: Riedle Thanks for the explanation CCP. I am one of those that had a remap coming up soonish, but I am not one to look a gift horse in the mouth. So thanks for the patch and the explanation wrt to remap. To the rest of you, HTFU. Ah well, I am one of those who are concerned why I receive a pair of socks for Christmas as a "gift" where as a large portion of Eve received a pair of socks and boxer shorts. Can't deal with people complaining, HTFU I would of quite liked training for Leadership based skills using the free remap but finding out my anniversary date is now wiped renders that all completely **ing useless now. So once again thanks CCP for giving a gift which unbalances it for a bunch of people. So if they gave NO gift, you'd have been happier? Is it a case of "If I can't have it then noone should" bawbaw etc. lots of things in EVE have been and continue to be unfair, it's the way of EVE. How would this game suddenly be if CCP said "Right, we're fed up of moaning everytime we try do something for people, so from now on we wont give anything away, no ships no maps no nothing ever again because if it's not 100% fair to 100% of the people there's always someone complaining, it's much safer to just never do anything good." It's more a case of... Don't give out "free" gifts if it isn't balanced. In this case it clearly isn't balanced if people are able to stack remaps because their anniversary date expired a before this update and now have 2 remaps. Where as anyone after only has one and can't remap for another year afterwards. It's a gift to some of population of Eve and a huge disadvantage to the rest. Sure I would of loved to remap for leadership skills and then remap back to standard Perception/Willpower though I can't without shafting my SP/Hour on other skills unlike a large portion of Eve who now have 2 remaps available. So maybe it should be more like this for CCP in their discussion. "Will this "free" gift effect people negatively and or give other people the upper hand?" Mr CCP 1 "Yes" MR CCP 2 "Don't implement it then, lets think this one through before relasing it" MR CCP 1 "Sure, it will be fairer on everyone else" MR CCP 2 Originally by:** Chaos Incarnate Originally by: Captain Mastiff Ah well, I am one of those who are concerned why I receive a pair of socks for Christmas as a "gift" where as a large portion of Eve received a pair of socks and boxer shorts. You know, considering that in this metaphorical Christmas 'socks' means 'between 0 and 5.4 million skillpoints, a free ship as well as potentially some attribute points' You clearly haven't understand the entire topic then. Nothing to do with reimbursed skillpoints. It's to do with the fact some people have been given a bonus which allows them to have 2 remaps. Where it is impossible for the likes of myself any many other people to get 2 remaps as my anniversary date was due after the update.
dickbott	Posted - 2010.12.16 15:12:00 - [182] Originally by: Chaos Incarnate Originally by: Captain Mastiff Ah well, I am one of those who are concerned why I receive a pair of socks for Christmas as a "gift" where as a large portion of Eve received a pair of socks and boxer shorts. You know, considering that in this metaphorical Christmas 'socks' means 'between 0 and 5.4 million skillpoints, a free ship as well as potentially some attribute points', i think you're coming across as a bit needy also, assuming you had a metaphorical mother in this metaphorical christmas, she'd be non-metaphorically telling you to be happy with the gifts you got rather than angry about the ones you didn't. Then everyone would drink hot cocoa and understand the true meaning of Christmas. EVE is a competitive pvp game. Giving some people an advantage over others is unfair.
Riedle Minmatar Wayne's TV and Appliances	Posted - 2010.12.16 15:19:00 - [183] Originally by: Captain Mastiff Edited by: Captain Mastiff on 16/12/2010 14:50:12 Originally by: Riedle Thanks for the explanation CCP. I am one of those that had a remap coming up soonish, but I am not one to look a gift horse in the mouth. So thanks for the patch and the explanation wrt to remap. To the rest of you, HTFU. Ah well, I am one of those who are concerned why I receive a pair of socks for Christmas as a "gift" where as a large portion of Eve received a pair of socks and boxer shorts. Can't deal with people complaining, HTFU I would of quite liked training for Leadership based skills using the free remap but finding out my anniversary date is now wiped renders that all completely ****ing useless now. So once again thanks CCP for giving a gift which unbalances it for a bunch of people. Dude, in short - if this issue causes you this much grief in real life then consider yourself to be a very blessed person. Get over it. Life isn't fair. Suck it up or GTFO.
Evil Rose FinFleet IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.12.16 15:19:00 - [184] first off: thanks for the free respec! unfortunately i have to wait until april to remap even if my attributes rly needs to be adjusted.
Cursan Voran	Posted - 2010.12.16 15:21:00 - [185] The points I could make about the lack of fairness and the poor implementation have already been covered so... [begin emo-rage] Is there anything :ccp: cant **** up? [/end emo-rage] Glad I got that out
Wiki Leaks	Posted - 2010.12.16 15:23:00 - [186] Originally by: Captain Mastiff Ah well, I am one of those who are concerned why I receive a pair of socks for Christmas as a "gift" where as a large portion of Eve received a pair of socks and boxer shorts. I'm interested in this. My birthday is December 24th. This means I have grown up receiving just socks, while others receive socks and boxer shorts later. I would be interested in knowing when the aggrieved folk's birthdays fall. I'm thinking they are maybe June or July babies. Maybe even as late as September. Has anybody been viciously robbed of a few days/months of remap ability and has a christmas birthday and is still whining? Science demands an answer.
Isorath	Posted - 2010.12.16 15:24:00 - [187] Really, the only fair thing to do is to have the remap timer go down to when it was supposed to before the "free remap" was given out... if it can't be easily programmed then at least make it petitionable or something. I really do feel like I got shafted :(
Chaos Incarnate Faceless Logistics	Posted - 2010.12.16 15:24:00 - [188] Edited by: Chaos Incarnate on 16/12/2010 15:24:21 Originally by: ****bott EVE is a competitive pvp game. Giving some people an advantage over others is unfair. EVE is a competitive pvp game in several more ways than just skillpoints, brotato. No one's character is going to fade to obsolescence because of a lack of an extra neural remap. _____________________ Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a forum, with the alt your alt could post like.
Commander Phoenix m3 Corp	Posted - 2010.12.16 15:24:00 - [189] Originally by: Claire Voyant I see it now. Do you have any more information you can supply? When was the last remap? over a year ago. What did it look like before Dec 15 DT? 1 remap available What did it look like after Dec 15 DT? 3 remaps available When was that screenshot taken? after DT today How old is the character? 2009.06.08 Are you sure that that character has remapped in the past? (given that it is remapped for drones, I'm thinking you would remember that decision, but I'll ask anyway.) I have remapped on this character. I can't have those attributes unless I remap. I have 4963909 SP on that char (+219613 to allocate) ---------------------------- -It's a big rock. Can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big.
Captain Mastiff	Posted - 2010.12.16 15:25:00 - [190] Edited by: Captain Mastiff on 16/12/2010 15:27:22 Originally by: Riedle Dude, in short - if this issue causes you this much grief in real life then consider yourself to be a very blessed person. Get over it. Life isn't fair. Suck it up or GTFO. Wat? I imagine you are a member of the 2 remap side. It's not causing me grief in my real life, just causing a large imbalance in a controlled enviroment AKA a game which can be altered. If this was real life sure people would suck it up and get on with it because that's life and it can't be changed. This is a game, CCP can quickly alter it. If we look at it another way and you lost an extremely expensive ship from an exploit or bug you would be complaining to CCP straight away and wouldn't go "Life isn't fair". For those trolling or unable to comprehend the idea of constructive criticism. The fact is a lot of members have got shafted over a free gift, if you were in that position where you are at a major disadvantage over other people you wouldn't be happy.

Petra Katell Pator Tech School	Posted - 2010.12.16 15:29:00 - [191] I don't really care, but I gotta admit, this wasn't well thought out at all. Thanks for the re-spec. At the same time, try to make better design decisions. It'll keep your customers from face-palming when you implement things like this.
KurnKuku	Posted - 2010.12.16 15:37:00 - [192] Originally by: Shpenat I would like to thank CCP Spitfire and CCP Prism X for mechanics clarification. I will try to rewrite it here with little explanation why did it happen this way (as i understand it from their posts). The mechanics works this way: 1) each time you use a remap the 1 year counter is started/reseted. 2) when the counter reach zero time it checks the amount of your remaps available 3) if the remaining amount reads 0 it adds +1. if it reads anything else, it does nothing. This way you can start with any number of remaps, but will never get more than 1 after a year of waiting. Now the idea was to give each character a possibility to remap after the learning skills were removed. But the programmers were given only very short time to implement it. the easiest way to do it is to add +1 to the current remap counter. This way no remap mechanics will be broken and the intensive testing of the change will not be needed. As the result the people who remapped shortly before the change was applied get a new remap, however people who had just few hours left get nothing (few hours bonus). Is it fair? Well .... not really. But it is much better than accidentally breaking something and then have to hunt the bug for several days and deal with more whinig about it. This would not work, as using the given remap yesterday would reset any counter that is currently running, so would not reach the point of checking until a year away.
Serpents smile	Posted - 2010.12.16 15:42:00 - [193] Think we can easily reach page 20 with this. What was the problem again?
Captain Mastiff	Posted - 2010.12.16 15:45:00 - [194] Originally by: Serpents smile Think we can easily reach page 20 with this. What was the problem again? Santa gave us a present, though other people got better a present. Effectively that's it.
KurnKuku	Posted - 2010.12.16 15:49:00 - [195] Edited by: KurnKuku on 16/12/2010 15:52:17 Originally by: Captain Mastiff Originally by: Serpents smile Think we can easily reach page 20 with this. What was the problem again? Santa gave us a present, though other people got better a present. Effectively that's it. There is a lot of this going about, I was trying to find what it is called in psychology, where everyone having nothing is better than some having more. I am sure I read something years ago about it. It was the same with the learning skills, the fact that some people who trained it would of preferred everyone else to go through that misery because they had to, rather than not go through it. It was ok though if they were compensated. Seems inherent human behaviour, more so for some people.
dickbott	Posted - 2010.12.16 15:51:00 - [196] Edited by: **bott on 16/12/2010 15:51:32 Originally by: Captain Mastiff Originally by: Serpents smile Think we can easily reach page 20 with this. What was the problem again? Santa gave us a present, though other people got better a present. Effectively that's it. More like everybody got a present, but those who had birthday in 3 days just got their birthday present in advance instead. Basically its better to have birthday during the summer.
Captain Mastiff	Posted - 2010.12.16 15:53:00 - [197] Edited by: Captain Mastiff on 16/12/2010 15:56:42 Originally by: KurnKuku There is a lot of this going about, I was trying to find what it is called in psychology, where everyone having nothing is better than some having more. I am sure I read something years ago about it. It was the same with the learning skills, the fact that some people who trained it would of preferred everyone else to go through that misery because they had to, rather than not go through it. It was ok though if they were compensated. Seems inherent human behaviour for some people. It's a reasonable human response though, same when you have two rich people. One was daddys boy who got all the money from inheritance and another worked for it. The one who worked for it insists the other doesn't deserve it because he didn't work for it. On the other hand this is a game that can be fixed very easily by CCP and real life analogies don't really work. It just shows another level of incompetence. Christ, have a look at the thread where they claimed to have "accidentally" inserted some auto download security software on the Buy plex page. Originally by: ***bott Edited by: ***bott on 16/12/2010 15:51:32 Originally by: Serpents smile Think we can easily reach page 20 with this. What was the problem again? Santa gave us a present, though other people got better a present. Effectively that's it. More like everybody got a present, but those who had birthday in 3 days just got their birthday present in advance instead. Basically its better to have birthday during the summer. I would say it's more like you had a birthday in a month (remap). Instead of getting a birthday present you only got a christmas present. People who's birthday were before christmas got a birthday present and a christmas present.
HyperZerg	Posted - 2010.12.16 15:56:00 - [198] I read about some experiments some years ago: You have 2 person, and 100$. One person splits the potand the other have to aceppt it. If he doesn't none gets the money. If you say 50/50 it will be accepted If you say 33/67 its a boared and has good chances to be accepted If you say 10/90 it won't be accepted The interesting part was, when they tested it with monkey, they would even accept the 10/90 offer. So, if I would get a 0,3 free remap and others get 2, I would say, better give them to none then this. If I would get 1, and the others 2, I would accept it, even if it's a little unfair.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.12.16 15:58:00 - [199] Originally by: CCP Prism X Perhaps it is important to re-iterate on this: The reason people who already had an implicit respec (after waiting for a year or more) got TWO is because if they'd only gotten ONE they would actually have gotten ZERO. Explanation: They'd already earned ONE through waiting. This is an indisputable fact. The reason they get TWO is because when they remap, they lose ONE free respec and the timer is UPDATED. If they had been set to ONE free respec that would leave them at ZERO and with a refreshed timestamp. That's ONE respec they can do after having earned one through waiting and getting another one from us. Those that had not earned anything have their free respec. You can chose to use it whenever you want but when you gain a new one through waiting it's not going to increment that numbers. You cannot hoard free respecs by design. Again: If you had no respecs you were, effectively, reset a year back giving you a respec. If you were already a year back resetting you a year back would give you nothing. Please bear in mind that waiting for two years does not grant you two respecs. They do not accrue! There is no way that "by design" you figured that someone would be treated fairly and would gain equal advantage realativge to othter playaers by recieving their remap date a few weeks or a few months early while others had them stacked. Its not a matter of philospopy.. or I give you more credit than that . Youa are correct that if you did want to be consistent those with one remap available should get 0 remaps as "they already had a free remap" Don't skirt this issue This is mattter of lazness and not a commitment to excellence else it is a complete disregard to trying to treat players equally.
So Cash	Posted - 2010.12.16 15:58:00 - [200] Originally by: HyperZerg I read about some experiments some years ago: You have 2 person, and 100$. One person splits the potand the other have to aceppt it. If he doesn't none gets the money. If you say 50/50 it will be accepted If you say 33/67 its a boared and has good chances to be accepted If you say 10/90 it won't be accepted The interesting part was, when they tested it with monkey, they would even accept the 10/90 offer. So, if I would get a 0,3 free remap and others get 2, I would say, better give them to none then this. If I would get 1, and the others 2, I would accept it, even if it's a little unfair. It's not a little unfair though, as some people were literally a day away if not hours before the database alteration. In effect some people have only had their remap boosted by a day, where as people before the update who had one have now been given in effect the ability to hold 2 years worth of remaps.

Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:05:00 - [201] Playing Dumb about this is even more and insult. You know very well , if you are a player, how this effects people unevenly and the value of having a stacked remap vs moving the date forward. You would certainly know that if you had planned a training schedual that moving a remap forward would do no good because you had planned to use those attributes to their advantage until the point you had a choice to use a new one. Playing "stupid" is a direct insult to players. And an insult is an insult whether or not the point is correct. Come clean and at least say that the design gives players very different benefits .
KurnKuku	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:06:00 - [202] Originally by: HyperZerg I read about some experiments some years ago: You have 2 person, and 100$. One person splits the potand the other have to aceppt it. If he doesn't none gets the money. If you say 50/50 it will be accepted If you say 33/67 its a boared and has good chances to be accepted If you say 10/90 it won't be accepted The interesting part was, when they tested it with monkey, they would even accept the 10/90 offer. So, if I would get a 0,3 free remap and others get 2, I would say, better give them to none then this. If I would get 1, and the others 2, I would accept it, even if it's a little unfair. Thanks I will go googling this, I am just personally interested in the reasons behind it.
Riedle Minmatar Wayne's TV and Appliances	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:07:00 - [203] Originally by: Captain Mastiff Edited by: Captain Mastiff on 16/12/2010 15:27:22 Originally by: Riedle Dude, in short - if this issue causes you this much grief in real life then consider yourself to be a very blessed person. Get over it. Life isn't fair. Suck it up or GTFO. Wat? I imagine you are a member of the 2 remap side. It's not causing me grief in my real life, just causing a large imbalance in a controlled enviroment AKA a game which can be altered. If this was real life sure people would suck it up and get on with it because that's life and it can't be changed. This is a game, CCP can quickly alter it. If we look at it another way and you lost an extremely expensive ship from an exploit or bug you would be complaining to CCP straight away and wouldn't go "Life isn't fair". For those trolling or unable to comprehend the idea of constructive criticism. The fact is a lot of members have got shafted over a free gift, if you were in that position where you are at a major disadvantage over other people you wouldn't be happy. Incorrect. I am one of those that just get my remap timer moved up a little bit. I understand that they did it the way they did and further, as I thought we could accumulate remaps if I didn't use the next one - bit now understand that you don't and never did - I get why they had to do it this way and there really was no way to make it any more fair as all they could do would be to have it in July and then those people would be compalining. They changed the learning skills and reset the cool down timer on the remaps for people who may have been speced for learning skills that are no longer there. That's why they did it. It wasn't just to give out free remaps. suck it up.
Captain Mastiff	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:15:00 - [204] Edited by: Captain Mastiff on 16/12/2010 16:16:44 Originally by: Riedle They changed the learning skills and reset the cool down timer on the remaps for people who may have been speced for learning skills that are no longer there. That's why they did it. It wasn't just to give out free remaps. suck it up. So the fix to balance is to only give a remap to those who had a timer... Not give those who already one stacked up and waiting another bonus of being able to remap twice without waiting a year. The big thing is we have to wait a year for our 2nd remap, they have it whenever. A year is a lot of SP when you wanted to do something like leadership based skills. I would be learning 50% less than if I picked my standard skill path. HTFU? No, fix the problem.
Karia Sur	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:18:00 - [205] Originally by: Riedle ..... no, the correct way to do it was to write a little bit of code that adds 1 remap to every single character in Eve. That causes no problems to any timers that are active, but gives everyone, fairly, a free remap.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:19:00 - [206] Originally by: KurnKuku Edited by: KurnKuku on 16/12/2010 15:52:17 Originally by: Captain Mastiff Originally by: Serpents smile Think we can easily reach page 20 with this. What was the problem again? Santa gave us a present, though other people got better a present. Effectively that's it. The level of anger is not about getting a slightly smaller piece of cake but someone cutting the cake that gave a person who hadn't eaten theres a second piece of cake and me, who ate his long ago a tiny sliver even thouth they had an unlimmited cake to give out. When asked politely firts the cake cutter pretends to look the other way. When pointing out that he just gave the other person a big second portion, he pretends that he's acting fairly because we already ate our first slice. The anger in part is because of the cake cutter acting like a xxxxx (don't know the right word) ... not because you're not getting a piece of cake. Its right to expect a game company to give out advantages fairly and to There is a lot of this going about, I was trying to find what it is called in psychology, where everyone having nothing is better than some having more. I am sure I read something years ago about it. It was the same with the learning skills, the fact that some people who trained it would of preferred everyone else to go through that misery because they had to, rather than not go through it. It was ok though if they were compensated. Seems inherent human behaviour, more so for some people.
Caldariftw123	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:22:00 - [207] Originally by: Captain Mastiff Edited by: Captain Mastiff on 16/12/2010 15:27:22 Originally by: Riedle Dude, in short - if this issue causes you this much grief in real life then consider yourself to be a very blessed person. Get over it. Life isn't fair. Suck it up or GTFO. Wat? I imagine you are a member of the 2 remap side. It's not causing me grief in my real life, just causing a large imbalance in a controlled enviroment AKA a game which can be altered. If this was real life sure people would suck it up and get on with it because that's life and it can't be changed. This is a game, CCP can quickly alter it. If we look at it another way and you lost an extremely expensive ship from an exploit or bug you would be complaining to CCP straight away and wouldn't go "Life isn't fair". For those trolling or unable to comprehend the idea of constructive criticism. The fact is a lot of members have got shafted over a free gift, if you were in that position where you are at a major disadvantage over other people you wouldn't be happy. As one of those falling on the 1 remap side I can safely say you are whining about not getting "as much of a free thing as the other guy got" and should probably htfu. Some people are at an advantage over me in this respect, they can quickly spec to something unpopular say charisma and gain a SP advantage in that area. I don't care, because it's not the total SP that determine winners and losers in this game. Bawbawrabblebaw.
Karia Sur	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:26:00 - [208] Originally by: Caldariftw123 Bawbawrabblebaw. your missing the point. If its a free gift given by a player to other players, then yea, he can pick and choose who he gives what to and who benefits to what extent. But in this instance, the Devs/GMs have given a free gift to everyone in Eve, but a gift which does not have the same value to everyone.
KurnKuku	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:28:00 - [209] Cool found it, falls under 'Behavioral economics', specifically The Ultimatum Game
So Cash	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:30:00 - [210] Edited by: So Cash on 16/12/2010 16:33:38 Originally by: Caldariftw123 As one of those falling on the 1 remap side I can safely say you are whining about not getting "as much of a free thing as the other guy got" and should probably htfu. Some people are at an advantage over me in this respect, they can quickly spec to something unpopular say charisma and gain a SP advantage in that area. I don't care, because it's not the total SP that determine winners and losers in this game. Bawbawrabblebaw. Total SP does not definitely define who is a winner or loser in this game after it's an MMO so there are none. Though it significantly helps, training time is what the entire system is based on and time is the only fixed thing related to skill points we can't force time to speed up or slow down. There are variables however which may become fixed (Attributes) We can't force time to speed up or slow down though we can change attributes yearly but not in this case. We all pay roughly the same sub price, though we've been treated differently in terms of our "gift". Thus someone is able to complete two completely different types of skills (attribute wise) in one month worth of game sub where as I am only able to get through one skill and a bit. Using purely the gift rewarded to us. lots of people are effected by this, we can use a completely different scenario in Eve an I imagine if it were a bug or exploit you wouldn't be Hardening the **** up, you'd be filing a petition whining why it wasn't your fault. HTFU? No Fix it. In fact lets get CCP to never fix or develop anything ever... then when you complain they can just say HTFU.

Caldariftw123	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:32:00 - [211] Originally by: Karia Sur Originally by: Caldariftw123 Bawbawrabblebaw. your missing the point. If its a free gift given by a player to other players, then yea, he can pick and choose who he gives what to and who benefits to what extent. But in this instance, the Devs/GMs have given a free gift to everyone in Eve, but a gift which does not have the same value to everyone. No I'm not missing the point. I can see what happened, I have even said it happened to me - I have 1 remap, when in fact I was going to get a remap anyway. My point is "bawbawbaw." I honestly could not care if the devs gave half the population 10 remaps and told the other half "you don't get this gift because you were naughty this christmas" not only would it be insanely funny but who cares? Seriously, so some guy in venal will train command ships faster than someone else in Syndicate, yet slower than some dude in Black Rise training HACs .. Oh me oh my I hope I don't meet that particular character out of the hundreds of thousands of characters in EVE because their minor skillpoint advantage in 1 area is going to cause them to win every fight I ever have with them! OH wait.
dickbott	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:37:00 - [212] Originally by: Caldariftw123 Originally by: Karia Sur Originally by: Caldariftw123 Bawbawrabblebaw. your missing the point. If its a free gift given by a player to other players, then yea, he can pick and choose who he gives what to and who benefits to what extent. But in this instance, the Devs/GMs have given a free gift to everyone in Eve, but a gift which does not have the same value to everyone. No I'm not missing the point. I can see what happened, I have even said it happened to me - I have 1 remap, when in fact I was going to get a remap anyway. My point is "bawbawbaw." I honestly could not care if the devs gave half the population 10 remaps and told the other half "you don't get this gift because you were naughty this christmas" not only would it be insanely funny but who cares? Seriously, so some guy in venal will train command ships faster than someone else in Syndicate, yet slower than some dude in Black Rise training HACs .. Oh me oh my I hope I don't meet that particular character out of the hundreds of thousands of characters in EVE because their minor skillpoint advantage in 1 area is going to cause them to win every fight I ever have with them! OH wait. Thats fine, you don't care that you are getting shafted, good for you. Now **** off, this topic is for people who DO care that others are getting an unfair advantage.
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:39:00 - [213] OK, I think I've finally figured this out (from a logical/programming standpoint, not concerned with the fairness of it atm.) Before DT on 15 Dec, each character could have been in one of three possible states: Group A. Remap timer activated within a year - No remap available Group B. Remap timer activated more than a year ago - Remap available Group C. Remap timer never activated - 1 or 2 remaps available NOTE: The timer was never activated if you never used your last remap that you started with, i.e. if you were born with 2 and used 1, you will be in group C. After DT on Dec 16 your character should have the following remaps available: Group A. 1 remap available Group B. 2 remaps available Group C. 3 remaps available The following characters would seem to have gotten a bonus remap: Group 1. Older characters that never remapped, had one available before and now have 3. Group 2. Newer characters that only used one of their 2 remaps and had one available, but now have 3. Group 3. Anyone who remapped between DT on 15 Dec and DT on 16 Dec would appear to have gotten an extra remap. (This may include characters in group 1 and 2 so they may have gotten 2 extra free remaps for being in both groups.) Corrections welcomed. Thanks to Cmd. Phoenix and Mia Restolo for helping me figure out "Group 2"
Karia Sur	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:40:00 - [214] Originally by: Caldariftw123 ..... noooooo, you still havent got it. If a free gift is given out by GMs/Devs and it us not the exact same free gift to everyone, then you are treading a real fine line between fairness and favouritism. Once you allow GMs/Devs to in effect 'help' a cetain amount of the playerbase, then the sandbox suddenly becomes hugely unfair.
So Cash	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:40:00 - [215] Edited by: So Cash on 16/12/2010 16:41:36 Originally by: Caldariftw123 Originally by: Karia Sur Originally by: Caldariftw123 Bawbawrabblebaw. your missing the point. If its a free gift given by a player to other players, then yea, he can pick and choose who he gives what to and who benefits to what extent. But in this instance, the Devs/GMs have given a free gift to everyone in Eve, but a gift which does not have the same value to everyone. No I'm not missing the point. I can see what happened, I have even said it happened to me - I have 1 remap, when in fact I was going to get a remap anyway. My point is "bawbawbaw." I honestly could not care if the devs gave half the population 10 remaps and told the other half "you don't get this gift because you were naughty this christmas" not only would it be insanely funny but who cares? Seriously, so some guy in venal will train command ships faster than someone else in Syndicate, yet slower than some dude in Black Rise training HACs .. Oh me oh my I hope I don't meet that particular character out of the hundreds of thousands of characters in EVE because their minor skillpoint advantage in 1 area is going to cause them to win every fight I ever have with them! OH wait. "Who cares?" I **ing care, skill points on this game are specifically in this game to stop people grinding their way to the top. These attributes are introduced so everyone realistically has the opportunity to generate SP at the same rate as everyone else. I think all the community would care if random people were given the ability to train 2/3x faster than everyone else. Saying you wouldn't care if someone got 10 remaps really shows you have no place here. Total SP = Subscription fee length x (SP/Hour +- remap attributes) I am paying the same sub as everyone else, why should some of the community have a huge boost to the maximum amount of SP they can gain than anyone else? Originally by:** Karia Sur Originally by: Caldariftw123 ..... noooooo, you still havent got it. If a free gift is given out by GMs/Devs and it us not the exact same free gift to everyone, then you are treading a real fine line between fairness and favouritism. Once you allow GMs/Devs to in effect 'help' a cetain amount of the playerbase, then the sandbox suddenly becomes hugely unfair. I wonder how many CCP player characters remapped before the update knowing it was coming up and that they could train specific skill sets and remap again on the 15th.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:44:00 - [216] Originally by: Karia Sur Originally by: Caldariftw123 ..... noooooo, you still havent got it. If a free gift is given out by GMs/Devs and it us not the exact same free gift to everyone, then you are treading a real fine line between fairness and favouritism. Once you allow GMs/Devs to in effect 'help' a cetain amount of the playerbase, then the sandbox suddenly becomes hugely unfair. And its also just a matter of them being rude. They have unlimmited remaps. They have an alternative where the benefit would be equal to all players. An active decision to not take the alternative to treat players equally is a fault and a commitment to a poor ideal. Pretending to not see the issue and obfiscate it with red herrings is an insult on top of the error.
Caldariftw123	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:45:00 - [217] Originally by: **bott Originally by:** Caldariftw123 Originally by: Karia Sur Originally by: Caldariftw123 Bawbawrabblebaw. your missing the point. If its a free gift given by a player to other players, then yea, he can pick and choose who he gives what to and who benefits to what extent. But in this instance, the Devs/GMs have given a free gift to everyone in Eve, but a gift which does not have the same value to everyone. No I'm not missing the point. I can see what happened, I have even said it happened to me - I have 1 remap, when in fact I was going to get a remap anyway. My point is "bawbawbaw." I honestly could not care if the devs gave half the population 10 remaps and told the other half "you don't get this gift because you were naughty this christmas" not only would it be insanely funny but who cares? Seriously, so some guy in venal will train command ships faster than someone else in Syndicate, yet slower than some dude in Black Rise training HACs .. Oh me oh my I hope I don't meet that particular character out of the hundreds of thousands of characters in EVE because their minor skillpoint advantage in 1 area is going to cause them to win every fight I ever have with them! OH wait. Thats fine, you don't care that you are getting shafted, good for you. Now **** off, this topic is for people who DO care that others are getting an unfair advantage. No, this topic isn't only for those that agree with the position, it is in "general discussion" of a public forum for anyone to post even if they disagree. I disagree, deal with it troll.
Captain Mastiff	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:46:00 - [218] Likely at all to see a GM/Dev post again any time soon?
Miss Pristine	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:47:00 - [219] Originally by: Claire Voyant OK, I think I've finally figured this out (from a logical/programming standpoint, not concerned with the fairness of it atm.) Before DT on 15 Dec, each character could have been in one of three possible states: Group A. Remap timer activated within a year - No remap available Group B. Remap timer activated more than a year ago - Remap available Group C. Remap timer never activated - 1 or 2 remaps available NOTE: The timer was never activated if you never used your last remap that you started with, i.e. if you were born with 2 and used 1, you will be in group C. After DT on Dec 16 your character should have the following remaps available: Group A. 1 remap available Group B. 2 remaps available Group C. 3 remaps available The following characters would seem to have gotten a bonus remap: Group 1. Older characters that never remapped, had one available before and now have 3. Group 2. Newer characters that only used one of their 2 remaps and had one available, but now have 3. Group 3. Anyone who remapped between DT on 15 Dec and DT on 16 Dec would appear to have gotten an extra remap. (This may include characters in group 1 and 2 so they may have gotten 2 extra free remaps for being in both groups.) Corrections welcomed. Thanks to Cmd. Phoenix and Mia Restolo for helping me figure out "Group 2" Your conclusion for group 2 is wrong. The other character on this account started after the remap implementation. I used 1 remap and had one left over. Now I have 2, not 3.
Riedle Minmatar Wayne's TV and Appliances	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:48:00 - [220] Originally by: Captain Mastiff Edited by: Captain Mastiff on 16/12/2010 16:16:44 Originally by: Riedle They changed the learning skills and reset the cool down timer on the remaps for people who may have been speced for learning skills that are no longer there. That's why they did it. It wasn't just to give out free remaps. suck it up. So the fix to balance is to only give a remap to those who had a timer... Not give those who already one stacked up and waiting another bonus of being able to remap twice without waiting a year. The big thing is we have to wait a year for our 2nd remap, they have it whenever. A year is a lot of SP when you wanted to do something like leadership based skills. I would be learning 50% less than if I picked my standard skill path. HTFU? No, fix the problem. Nah, fix other problems and finish other things in the game that will make it better than to waste time doing this change for people that are whining about it. HTFU. really, it's all you need to do.

Amberlamps	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:49:00 - [221] Originally by: Caldariftw123 No, this topic isn't only for those that agree with the position, it is in "general discussion" of a public forum for anyone to post even if they disagree. I disagree, deal with it troll. You should really refrain from posting though as you really do appear to be a complete idiot. As soon as you claimed you wouldn't care if someone else had 10 remaps and would find it funny you lost all credibility. You don't disagree with it either, the way you posted previously shows support for the update, which means you agree with it. Dude, at least attempt to know what you're talking about before posting.
Dawne Xi Minmatar 3D Salvage and Acquisitions	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:53:00 - [222] Originally by: CCP Prism X Perhaps it is important to re-iterate on this: The reason people who already had an implicit respec (after waiting for a year or more) got TWO is because if they'd only gotten ONE they would actually have gotten ZERO. Even with your explanation below, this makes no sense to me, and I've been reading through this thread for the past 2 hours trying to make sense of the statement above. Originally by: CCP Prism X Explanation: They'd already earned ONE through waiting. This is an indisputable fact. Ok I understand this part. Originally by: CCP Prism X The reason they get TWO is because when they remap, they lose ONE free respec and the timer is UPDATED. If they had been set to ONE free respec that would leave them at ZERO and with a refreshed timestamp. That's ONE respec they can do after having earned one through waiting and getting another one from us. Yeah this is where you lose me. Let me tell you what this means to me "The reason they get TWO (and now have a total of THREE) is because when they remap, they lose ONE free respec (and now have TWO left) and the timer is UPDATED. If they had been set to ONE free respec (Wait they had one, and you're saying if they had been set to one? Or are you saying if you had ADDED only ONE to their total, bringing them to TWO now?) that would leave them at ZERO (Huh? see my previous confusion) and with a refreshed timestamp. That's ONE respec they can do after having earned one through waiting, and getting another from us. (But if they had one and you gave them one, wouldn't that mean they would have two? You lost me here)" Originally by: CCP Prism X Those that had not earned anything have their free respec. You can chose to use it whenever you want but when you gain a new one through waiting it's not going to increment that numbers. You cannot hoard free respecs by design. So those of us who did remap in the last year, and had a timer running, have had that timer reset, so the system now thinks we remapped a year ago and the system has made the remap available. This I understand, and don't see how giving someone who had an available remap, a second remap would have been any different, but instead you gave them two and us one, for reasons I cannot understand. Originally by: CCP Prism X Again: If you had no respecs you were, effectively, reset a year back giving you a respec. Ok I get this. Originally by: CCP Prism X If you were already a year back resetting you a year back would give you nothing. Please bear in mind that waiting for two years does not grant you two respecs. They do not accrue! So you're saying giving them +1 remap, for a total of TWO would have in effect, been like giving them NOTHING? See this is where you totally lose me. Could you please give us some examples using characters and stuff... Maybe with pictures (I'm not being sarcastic, I am really really trying to understand this). Because I have two characters who remapped recently, and can now remap again, great, but this doesn't help me at all since my plans were for a year or more anyway. And then someone who had not remapped, can now remap 3 times, then wait a year from that final remap, because if you had allowed them to remap only twice (instead of once), and then wait a year from that final remap, that would have been giving them nothing?
Arela Xen Gallente Evoke. Ev0ke	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:55:00 - [223] same problem here, fix please
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:56:00 - [224] Originally by: Miss Pristine Your conclusion for group 2 is wrong. The other character on this account started after the remap implementation. I used 1 remap and had one left over. Now I have 2, not 3. Please take a look at the character described in this post and tell me if you see any differences compared to your character.
Fkn Arson 0ne Percent.	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:58:00 - [225] My characters get to remap halfway into their previous remap, thanks CCP!
Amberlamps	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:59:00 - [226] Originally by: Dawne Xi Originally by: CCP Prism X Perhaps it is important to re-iterate on thi I am really really trying to understand this). Because I have two characters who remapped recently, and can now remap again, great, but this doesn't help me at all since my plans were for a year or more anyway. And then someone who had not remapped, can now remap 3 times, then wait a year from that final remap, because if you had allowed them to remap only twice (instead of once), and then wait a year from that final remap, that would have been giving them nothing? If you have 3 maps, you can remap 3 x and then after the 3rd remap you have to wait 1 entire year until a remap point is given to you. So if I have 2, I can remap now and tomorrow if I wanted to but I would then have to wait a year until another one is available to me. You can use remap points whenever but when you have no remap points you have to wait a year until the next one. The issue here is people who had remapped and been waiting the year have been given a remap point and their year wait is reset... great! Though some people only had a matter of hours till it finished... nevermind but oh wait... Some people who had their year wait finish before the update had a remap point and have been awarded a free gift remap. They now have 2? They can use 2 remaps and then wait a year. So the person who had been waiting for a year but had their date reset and now have 1 only have one and have only really been boosted a month or so. Where as the 2nd lot of people have in effect been giving an advatange of an entire year as they have 2 remaps. The 3rd lot of people who have 3 maps is purely because when you create a character you have 2 remaps available, then they never used them and were awarded a free one. They now have 3.
Miss Pristine	Posted - 2010.12.16 16:59:00 - [227] Originally by: Claire Voyant Originally by: Miss Pristine Your conclusion for group 2 is wrong. The other character on this account started after the remap implementation. I used 1 remap and had one left over. Now I have 2, not 3. Please take a look at the character described in this post and tell me if you see any differences compared to your character. Yeah I see it fits with that person, but In my case I was bumped up to 2 remaps not 3. In almost the exact same senario.
Pesets The Hunt Club	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:00:00 - [228] Originally by: Keira Matrix Originally by: CCP Prism X Not perfect, perhaps not just and I'll leave that up for philosophical debate but certainly gave everyone the possibility of respeccing now. Very true, and more than what a lot of us was expecting. I for one saw no reason in the first place to hand out a remap. So it was a bonus, maybe not an equal bonus but a bonus anyway. No. If it's a random bonus to some but not others, then it's worse than no bonus at all, because it basically gives some players unfair advantage over others. Even worse is that nothing has been said about this up until the patch. If this was a part of the test on Singularity, people would have pointed out the problem and steps could be taken. Instead, they've already made a mess on live server, and apparently aren't going to do anything to fix it. "Yea guys, we essentially screwed over some of you, but it's the best we could do in the limited time we had, and it was implemented as designed so HTFU and suck it up".
Caldariftw123	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:01:00 - [229] Originally by: Amberlamps Originally by: Caldariftw123 No, this topic isn't only for those that agree with the position, it is in "general discussion" of a public forum for anyone to post even if they disagree. I disagree, deal with it troll. You should really refrain from posting though as you really do appear to be a complete idiot. As soon as you claimed you wouldn't care if someone else had 10 remaps and would find it funny you lost all credibility. You don't disagree with it either, the way you posted previously shows support for the update, which means you agree with it. Dude, at least attempt to know what you're talking about before posting. Imbecile, I disagree with the position of the thread, I disagree that this is a) not a whining bawbaw thread and b) that CCP should "fix this" So don't try put moronic words into my mouth before YOU understand what I have said. YES I support the update that CCP applied, even though I have not gained personally from it, because I do not LOSE anything either. and as for losing credibility I don't care because I was serious - if you were given ten remaps right now I would not give a rats ass because it has NO effect on me whatsoever. Is it 'unfair' yes but do I care, no.
Miss Pristine	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:02:00 - [230] Originally by: Amberlamps Originally by: Dawne Xi Originally by: CCP Prism X Perhaps it is important to re-iterate on thi I am really really trying to understand this). Because I have two characters who remapped recently, and can now remap again, great, but this doesn't help me at all since my plans were for a year or more anyway. And then someone who had not remapped, can now remap 3 times, then wait a year from that final remap, because if you had allowed them to remap only twice (instead of once), and then wait a year from that final remap, that would have been giving them nothing? If you have 3 maps, you can remap 3 x and then after the 3rd remap you have to wait 1 entire year until a remap point is given to you. So if I have 2, I can remap now and tomorrow if I wanted to but I would then have to wait a year until another one is available to me. You can use remap points whenever but when you have no remap points you have to wait a year until the next one. The issue here is people who had remapped and been waiting the year have been given a remap point and their year wait is reset... great! Though some people only had a matter of hours till it finished... nevermind but oh wait... Some people who had their year wait finish before the update had a remap point and have been awarded a free gift remap. They now have 2? They can use 2 remaps and then wait a year. So the person who had been waiting for a year but had their date reset and now have 1 only have one and have only really been boosted a month or so. Where as the 2nd lot of people have in effect been giving an advatange of an entire year as they have 2 remaps. The 3rd lot of people who have 3 maps is purely because when you create a character you have 2 remaps available, then they never used them and were awarded a free one. They now have 3. Almost, people who never used a remap at all... even the old characters that did not start with any.. were bumped to 3.

Dawne Xi Minmatar 3D Salvage and Acquisitions	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:04:00 - [231] Originally by: Amberlamps The 3rd lot of people who have 3 maps is purely because when you create a character you have 2 remaps available, then they never used them and were awarded a free one. They now have 3. No, and I edited my post to clarify this. A friend of mine is a 2006 character, who has never remapped, and now has 3 remaps available.
Namira Incendie Minmatar Valor Enterprises	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:06:00 - [232] So If I use a remap and then wait 2 years will I have 2 remaps?
Amberlamps	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:07:00 - [233] Originally by: Caldariftw123 Originally by: Amberlamps Originally by: Caldariftw123 No, this topic isn't only for those that agree with the position, it is in "general discussion" of a public forum for anyone to post even if they disagree. I disagree, deal with it troll. You should really refrain from posting though as you really do appear to be a complete idiot. As soon as you claimed you wouldn't care if someone else had 10 remaps and would find it funny you lost all credibility. You don't disagree with it either, the way you posted previously shows support for the update, which means you agree with it. Dude, at least attempt to know what you're talking about before posting. Imbecile, I disagree with the position of the thread, I disagree that this is a) not a whining bawbaw thread and b) that CCP should "fix this" So don't try put moronic words into my mouth before YOU understand what I have said. YES I support the update that CCP applied, even though I have not gained personally from it, because I do not LOSE anything either. and as for losing credibility I don't care because I was serious - if you were given ten remaps right now I would not give a rats ass because it has NO effect on me whatsoever. Is it 'unfair' yes but do I care, no. Imbecile The thread is titled "Free remap GM response please" You disagree? So you don't want any? Or are you disagreeing with the position of the thread which is talking about Everyone gets one free remap thats it. You disagree to that... Hmm...
Miss Pristine	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:08:00 - [234] Originally by: Namira Incendie So If I use a remap and then wait 2 years will I have 2 remaps? No, the Dev above said they will never stack... Unless given free.
Karia Sur	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:09:00 - [235] Originally by: Caldariftw123 Is it 'unfair' yes but do I care, no. The let us who 'do' care, moan, and those who do 'not' care, go troll another thread.
Caldariftw123	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:11:00 - [236] Originally by: Amberlamps Originally by: Caldariftw123 Originally by: Amberlamps Originally by: Caldariftw123 No, this topic isn't only for those that agree with the position, it is in "general discussion" of a public forum for anyone to post even if they disagree. I disagree, deal with it troll. You should really refrain from posting though as you really do appear to be a complete idiot. As soon as you claimed you wouldn't care if someone else had 10 remaps and would find it funny you lost all credibility. You don't disagree with it either, the way you posted previously shows support for the update, which means you agree with it. Dude, at least attempt to know what you're talking about before posting. Imbecile, I disagree with the position of the thread, I disagree that this is a) not a whining bawbaw thread and b) that CCP should "fix this" So don't try put moronic words into my mouth before YOU understand what I have said. YES I support the update that CCP applied, even though I have not gained personally from it, because I do not LOSE anything either. and as for losing credibility I don't care because I was serious - if you were given ten remaps right now I would not give a rats ass because it has NO effect on me whatsoever. Is it 'unfair' yes but do I care, no. Imbecile The thread is titled "Free remap GM response please" You disagree? So you don't want any? Or are you disagreeing with the position of the thread which is talking about Everyone gets one free remap thats it. You disagree to that... Hmm... Quoting what I said, because it answers what you are saying already, mr imbecile troll: I disagree that this is a) not a whining bawbaw thread and b) that CCP should "fix this" Had you actually read what I have said previously like you claim you will see that I have argued this is not a big issue at all, it is something CCP don't need to fix, and then someone told me I should "gtfo it's for people that wish to complain" where I said no, it's not, and that I can disagree with people in this thread if I wish. Mr imbecile troll please stop trying to tell me what I have said because I clearly know what I said, you however do not appear to.
Captain Mastiff	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:12:00 - [237] Originally by: Namira Incendie So If I use a remap and then wait 2 years will I have 2 remaps? Nope Only once you have 0 remaps remaining does the 365 day counter begin. Once that is completed you are awarded one remap, until that remap is utilised the counter for another 365 days won't start. Ideally for optimise SP/Hour/Year it's best to have your plan, planned in advance to the remap.
Amberlamps	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:15:00 - [238] Edited by: Amberlamps on 16/12/2010 17:15:09 Originally by: Caldariftw123 Quoting what I said, because it answers what you are saying already, mr imbecile troll: I disagree that this is a) not a whining bawbaw thread and b) that CCP should "fix this" Had you actually read what I have said previously like you claim you will see that I have argued this is not a big issue at all, it is something CCP don't need to fix, and then someone told me I should "gtfo it's for people that wish to complain" where I said no, it's not, and that I can disagree with people in this thread if I wish. Mr imbecile troll please stop trying to tell me what I have said because I clearly know what I said, you however do not appear to. I don't read anything you say actually to be honest, Not after you saying you wouldn't be bothered about 10 remaps being rewarded to other players for nothign. You truly lost all credibility to argue or even put your point across on this topic after that.
Commander Phoenix m3 Corp	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:16:00 - [239] Originally by: Claire Voyant Originally by: Miss Pristine Your conclusion for group 2 is wrong. The other character on this account started after the remap implementation. I used 1 remap and had one left over. Now I have 2, not 3. Please take a look at the character described in this post and tell me if you see any differences compared to your character. I also have another character who was created on 2010.01.10 Had used 1 of the 2 available remaps and didn't use the other one. He has now got 2 remaps, not 3 like my other character. ---------------------------- -It's a big rock. Can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big.
Joss56 Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:17:00 - [240] CCP slap theyre ugly kids faces with 1M sp and send them FO once and for all ________________________________________________ "You do realise you live on a globe, right? And that there places outside the USA/UK?"

Caldariftw123	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:17:00 - [241] Originally by: Amberlamps Originally by: Caldariftw123 Quoting what I said, because it answers what you are saying already, mr imbecile troll: I disagree that this is a) not a whining bawbaw thread and b) that CCP should "fix this" Had you actually read what I have said previously like you claim you will see that I have argued this is not a big issue at all, it is something CCP don't need to fix, and then someone told me I should "gtfo it's for people that wish to complain" where I said no, it's not, and that I can disagree with people in this thread if I wish. Mr imbecile troll please stop trying to tell me what I have said because I clearly know what I said, you however do not appear to. I don't read anything you say actually to be honest, Not after you saying you wouldn't get about 10 remaps. You truly lost all credibility to argue or even put your point across on this topic after that. So you spent 2 posts trying to tell me I don't know what I am saying, then you blatantly say you didn't even read what I said? So you ARE troll and openly admit it, that makes sense. Just because you fail to understand how 1 person couldn't care if someone else gets something when they do not does not mean it doesn't happen. Not EVERYONE in this game has to stomp on the other guy's fun in order to have his own. CCP: Give EVERYONE but me 10 remaps, honestly, I couldn't care 1 little bit. NOT ONE BIT. Why? because this would not affect me! You having a thousand remaps would not affect me, it doesn't change my character and it doesn't change what I do in the game.
Karia Sur	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:22:00 - [242] Originally by: Caldariftw123 ...... the point is, CCP shouldnt diferentiate between users.......what 1 gets, ALL should get.
Commander Phoenix m3 Corp	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:23:00 - [243] Originally by: Commander Phoenix I also have another character who was created on 2010.01.10 Had used 1 of the 2 available remaps and didn't use the other one. He has now got 2 remaps, not 3 like my other character. I also have yet another character created on 2009.11.30. Has used (at least) 1 remap and now has 3 available. ---------------------------- -It's a big rock. Can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big.
Winston Clarke	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:25:00 - [244] Originally by: Caldariftw123 Originally by: Amberlamps Originally by: Caldariftw123 Quoting what I said, because it answers what you are saying already, mr imbecile troll: I disagree that this is a) not a whining bawbaw thread and b) that CCP should "fix this" Had you actually read what I have said previously like you claim you will see that I have argued this is not a big issue at all, it is something CCP don't need to fix, and then someone told me I should "gtfo it's for people that wish to complain" where I said no, it's not, and that I can disagree with people in this thread if I wish. Mr imbecile troll please stop trying to tell me what I have said because I clearly know what I said, you however do not appear to. I don't read anything you say actually to be honest, Not after you saying you wouldn't get about 10 remaps. You truly lost all credibility to argue or even put your point across on this topic after that. So you spent 2 posts trying to tell me I don't know what I am saying, then you blatantly say you didn't even read what I said? So you ARE troll and openly admit it, that makes sense. Just because you fail to understand how 1 person couldn't care if someone else gets something when they do not does not mean it doesn't happen. Not EVERYONE in this game has to stomp on the other guy's fun in order to have his own. CCP: Give EVERYONE but me 10 remaps, honestly, I couldn't care 1 little bit. NOT ONE BIT. Why? because this would not affect me! You having a thousand remaps would not affect me, it doesn't change my character and it doesn't change what I do in the game. So it would be ok if everyone but you got 10b isk and 10m sp?
Amberlamps	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:27:00 - [245] Originally by: Caldariftw123 CCP: Give EVERYONE but me 10 remaps, honestly, I couldn't care 1 little bit. NOT ONE BIT. Why? because this would not affect me! You having a thousand remaps would not affect me, it doesn't change my character and it doesn't change what I do in the game. Oh I wish this did happen. It would change what you do in game because everyone had eventually be training faster than you and in time they would over take not neccessarily much younger players but players just a bit younger than you. You would see an influx of players who have skilled purely for one ship and have excellent skill sets and then skilled for something completely different. Eventually with time every player would no doubt have better trade/industry/spaceship com/gun/mis than you etc and the only thing you would have is "experience". Which can only take you so far. I stopped reading your posts because all you are going on is about how you disagree but not why other than you're not arsed or it doesn't bother you. Nothing really indepth enough to bat an eye lid at.
Sieges	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:29:00 - [246] I did not get a remap. It says I need to wait until October 2011. But I guess it's all being worked on.
Caldariftw123	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:30:00 - [247] Edited by: Caldariftw123 on 16/12/2010 17:33:47 Originally by: Winston Clarke Originally by: Caldariftw123 Originally by: Amberlamps Originally by: Caldariftw123 Quoting what I said, because it answers what you are saying already, mr imbecile troll: I disagree that this is a) not a whining bawbaw thread and b) that CCP should "fix this" Had you actually read what I have said previously like you claim you will see that I have argued this is not a big issue at all, it is something CCP don't need to fix, and then someone told me I should "gtfo it's for people that wish to complain" where I said no, it's not, and that I can disagree with people in this thread if I wish. Mr imbecile troll please stop trying to tell me what I have said because I clearly know what I said, you however do not appear to. I don't read anything you say actually to be honest, Not after you saying you wouldn't get about 10 remaps. You truly lost all credibility to argue or even put your point across on this topic after that. So you spent 2 posts trying to tell me I don't know what I am saying, then you blatantly say you didn't even read what I said? So you ARE troll and openly admit it, that makes sense. Just because you fail to understand how 1 person couldn't care if someone else gets something when they do not does not mean it doesn't happen. Not EVERYONE in this game has to stomp on the other guy's fun in order to have his own. CCP: Give EVERYONE but me 10 remaps, honestly, I couldn't care 1 little bit. NOT ONE BIT. Why? because this would not affect me! You having a thousand remaps would not affect me, it doesn't change my character and it doesn't change what I do in the game. So it would be ok if everyone but you got 10b isk and 10m sp? Everyone getting 10 billion isk would be so completely game changing it's such an over the top comparison. It's like saying to someone who doesn't mind only getting socks, when other people got socks AND shorts "So you'd be happy if we all got Ferraris and you didn't?" no of course I wouldn't, because it's a BIG thing to give out - remaps are NOT big things to give out. The huge isk bonus would also alter the economy and value of isk, the inflation rate, by such a huge amount it'd ruin the bloody game tbh. So no, I would not be happy with it, but not because "I didn't get it it's unfair!" but for the reasons I outlined above. The 10 million skillpoints however, I don't know .. it'd be such a cool thing to get I'd be more upset about losing out on it than I am a remap, and it's not SO many skillpoints that it'd render training obsolete for example, but it would again change the game in quite a large way so it'd be a dangerous thing to give out game-wise. The fact that you would be able to fly a bunch of ships suddenly that I cannot, however, would not bother me. Why would it, when in fact it's not relevant to my character? Originally by: Amberlamps Oh I wish this did happen. It would change what you do in game because everyone had eventually be training faster than you ..(snip for character space saving) I stopped reading your posts because all you are going on is about how you disagree but not why other than you're not arsed or it doesn't bother you. Nothing really indepth enough to bat an eye lid at. For someone alleging for 3 posts now that they do not read my posts, you sure are spending a lot of time reading my posts and replying to them (even if you do misrepresent them somewhat) As for 'substance' other than saying "it's a small issue to moan about considering what else is out there that devs could spend time on" what more do you want? I don't care about it, you do, we are disagreeing, I see no more substance in your argument than you apparently do in mine however. As for the 'it would change the game for you because they train faster' etc yeah, but then someone who was in the game for years has more skillpoints, someone who had all learning Vs had more skillpoints, etc., yet I still enjoy my game just fine :)
Amberlamps	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:36:00 - [248] Edited by: Amberlamps on 16/12/2010 17:37:30 Originally by: Caldariftw123 Originally by: Winston Clarke So it would be ok if everyone but you got 10b isk and 10m sp? Everyone getting 10 billion isk would be so completely game changing it's such an over the top comparison. It's like saying to someone who doesn't mind only getting socks, when other people got socks AND shorts "So you'd be happy if we all got Ferraris and you didn't?" no of course I wouldn't, because it's a BIG thing to give out - remaps are NOT big things to give out. The huge isk bonus would also alter the economy and value of isk, the inflation rate, by such a huge amount it'd ruin the bloody game tbh. So no, I would not be happy with it, but not because "I didn't get it it's unfair!" but for the reasons I outlined above. The 10 million skillpoints however, I don't know .. it'd be such a cool thing to get I'd be more upset about losing out on it than I am a remap, and it's not SO many skillpoints that it'd render training obsolete for example, but it would again change the game in quite a large way so it'd be a dangerous thing to give out game-wise. The fact that you would be able to fly a bunch of ships suddenly that I cannot, however, would not bother me. Why would it, when in fact it's not relevant to my character? Dude HTFU and stop whining, we got 10bil ISK 10m SP and you didn't so HTFU. That is the sort of response you would receive. Just like we are getting now over the remaps. Big or small it is still game changing to every single person. Now my friends can plan for 2 completely different things and keep it at optimal SP/Hour in a year. That changes the way I have to play because if we both want to do something together but it will take me forever to get to it from it using soley a free gift. Guess what it's not balanced and it's game changing. There is also actual substance in my "argument" for a change as I am showing there are reasons why it is imbalanced and how it has come about. Where as you are just telling people to get on with it and stop whining because YOU don't care. A debate or argument usually really needs to contain some factual information where as you are purely pushing your opinion of you not caring on us.
Winston Clarke	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:40:00 - [249] Just ignore him, he is pretty ******ed.
Caldariftw123	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:43:00 - [250] Originally by: Amberlamps Edited by: Amberlamps on 16/12/2010 17:38:34 Edited by: Amberlamps on 16/12/2010 17:37:30 Originally by: Caldariftw123 Originally by: Winston Clarke So it would be ok if everyone but you got 10b isk and 10m sp? Everyone getting 10 billion isk would be so completely game changing it's such an over the top comparison. It's like saying to someone who doesn't mind only getting socks, when other people got socks AND shorts "So you'd be happy if we all got Ferraris and you didn't?" no of course I wouldn't, because it's a BIG thing to give out - remaps are NOT big things to give out. The huge isk bonus would also alter the economy and value of isk, the inflation rate, by such a huge amount it'd ruin the bloody game tbh. So no, I would not be happy with it, but not because "I didn't get it it's unfair!" but for the reasons I outlined above. The 10 million skillpoints however, I don't know .. it'd be such a cool thing to get I'd be more upset about losing out on it than I am a remap, and it's not SO many skillpoints that it'd render training obsolete for example, but it would again change the game in quite a large way so it'd be a dangerous thing to give out game-wise. The fact that you would be able to fly a bunch of ships suddenly that I cannot, however, would not bother me. Why would it, when in fact it's not relevant to my character? Dude HTFU and stop whining, we got 10bil ISK 10m SP and you didn't so HTFU. That is the sort of response you would receive. Just like we are getting now over the remaps. Big or small it is still game changing to every single person. Now my friends can plan for 2 completely different things and keep it at optimal SP/Hour in a year. That changes the way I have to play because if we both want to do something together but it will take me forever to get to it from it using soley a free gift. Guess what it's not balanced and it's game changing. There is also actual substance in my "argument" for a change as I am showing there are reasons why it is imbalanced and how it has come about. Where as you are just telling people to get on with it and stop whining because YOU don't care. A debate or argument usually really needs to contain some factual information where as you are purely pushing your opinion of you not caring on us. You are then saying if the gift was bigger you would actually begin to care for example the 10bil ISk 10m SP. So perhaps... a free remap is actually something worth caring about to someone who already has limitless supplies of ISK and well SP comes hand in hand with remaps. Except as I said, which you seem to deliberately miss, the 10billion isk is GAME CHANGING not "for me" but for EVERYONE. It would alter the entire economy to such a degree as to not even be funny. It is a completely exaggerated comparison and bares no resemblance to the original argument about remaps. Yeah, though, I am basically saying "htfu" - if you dislike my opinion on this matter you are welcome to. I would much rather see the dev time spent on more worthwhile things however. Coding the database to alter the remap so that it does not affect the date would require them to overhaul the system, as opposed to just going "remaps+1" or similar. They would have to tell the database that "This remap, however, does not reset the counter" and that takes far more programming effort. How much more, I don't know, as I don't work for CCP - neither do you. I assume though that, as it is the optimal solution to the problem but was NOT done that the effort Versus reward ratio is not worth it. The devs have X amount of time and spending it on everything they want is impossible as what they want > time available to do it.

Amberlamps	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:49:00 - [251] Originally by: Caldariftw123 Except as I said, which you seem to deliberately miss, the 10billion isk is GAME CHANGING not "for me" but for EVERYONE I guess you are also responsible for not reading posts properly as you will be able to note I said relating to someone who has limitless ISK. Once you are in the triple figures of the billions most things don't matter. If you're that high up 10billion to every player will cause a large shift in the market but it's not going to harm you any where near as much. As since we're nit picking we can say that the trillionaires of Eve will not be affected. A large portion of people have been effected over this attribute thing, and I for one find remaps very VERY valuable. I find SP much more valuable than ISK, after all SP is what allows us to generate ISK and go into the unknown. So once again for me to be unable to train a specific skill set at speed and swap, where as many others can that has significantly effected myself and many other members of Eve. There is no denying we ARE paying for SP by the second on our subscription times, otherwise you can advance in ISK which won't get you anywhere if you can't utilise it... which means having SP. Which means getting SP at the optimal rate which in turn shows us that having people with more remaps because of a poorly implementation is unfair and should be fixed.
Spark Rinn	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:52:00 - [252] While this doesn't affect me, the change affects different players' strategic choices rather dramatically. I can accept the explaination given, even though it is flawed as many people have pointed out. However, this is a major PR desaster, because the explaination should have been given before the changes took place. In any case, "free remap" doesn't imply remap timer reset.
Caldariftw123	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:58:00 - [253] Originally by: Amberlamps Originally by: Caldariftw123 Except as I said, which you seem to deliberately miss, the 10billion isk is GAME CHANGING not "for me" but for EVERYONE I guess you are also responsible for not reading posts properly as you will be able to note I said relating to someone who has limitless ISK. Once you are in the triple figures of the billions most things don't matter. If you're that high up 10billion to every player will cause a large shift in the market but it's not going to harm you any where near as much. As since we're nit picking we can say that the trillionaires of Eve will not be affected. A large portion of people have been effected over this attribute thing, and I for one find remaps very VERY valuable. I find SP much more valuable than ISK, after all SP is what allows us to generate ISK and go into the unknown. So once again for me to be unable to train a specific skill set at speed and swap, where as many others can that has significantly effected myself and many other members of Eve. There is no denying we ARE paying for SP by the second on our subscription times, otherwise you can advance in ISK which won't get you anywhere if you can't utilise it... which means having SP. Which means getting SP at the optimal rate which in turn shows us that having people with more remaps because of a poorly implementation is unfair and should be fixed. The rate of inflation would go through the roof, their isk would lose it's value. If everyone can afford ten machariels, then what will happen to the Machariel? Will it stay the same price? No, don't be daft, it will suddenly cost 7billion instead, same with all the other items their price will shoot up. So ten billion to isk to everyone is game changing to the nTH degree in comparison to a free remap or even ten remaps. Ten remaps would allow you to skill what you want, when you want, for a good few years. After those few years you'll gain a few million more skillpoints than someone without those free remaps, if you make best use of them. How much will that affect the game? Very little, and barely at all when compared to your 10billion isk ridiculous example. So yeah, I read your post, and it's wrong. 10billion isk is so completely removed from a free remap for "most" people and not for "all" people as a comparison it's just moronic. I can see why this is 'unfair' and I've already said I am affected by it, it is a bit of a difference, but my contention is that the difference is tiny, the effect is small and the time for developers to fix it versus reward is not worth it.
Winston Clarke	Posted - 2010.12.16 17:59:00 - [254] Originally by: Spark Rinn While this doesn't affect me, the change affects different players' strategic choices rather dramatically. I can accept the explaination given, even though it is flawed as many people have pointed out. However, this is a major PR desaster, because the explaination should have been given before the changes took place. In any case, "free remap" doesn't imply remap timer reset. This 100%
Amberlamps	Posted - 2010.12.16 18:00:00 - [255] Originally by: Spark Rinn While this doesn't affect me, the change affects different players' strategic choices rather dramatically. I can accept the explaination given, even though it is flawed as many people have pointed out. However, this is a major PR desaster, because the explaination should have been given before the changes took place. In any case, "free remap" doesn't imply remap timer reset. Yes actually that is probably an easier way to explain it. If you had 1 remap point - Yay Free remap If you had a timer - Oh timer reset, no new remap point when timer should of expired.
Commander Phoenix m3 Corp	Posted - 2010.12.16 18:08:00 - [256] Originally by: Spark Rinn While this doesn't affect me, the change affects different players' strategic choices rather dramatically. I can accept the explaination given, even though it is flawed as many people have pointed out. However, this is a major PR desaster, because the explaination should have been given before the changes took place. In any case, "free remap" doesn't imply remap timer reset. Very well put. ---------------------------- -It's a big rock. Can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big.
white kight Galaxy Punks Dead Terrorists	Posted - 2010.12.16 18:14:00 - [257] Originally by: Spark Rinn While this doesn't affect me, the change affects different players' strategic choices rather dramatically. I can accept the explaination given, even though it is flawed as many people have pointed out. However, this is a major PR desaster, because the explaination should have been given before the changes took place. In any case, "free remap" doesn't imply remap timer reset. Agreed. I haven't got a free remap at all either, its just moved it forward a couple of months. Promoting this as a FREE remap without explaining that its actually the one you are entitled to, just its a month or 2 earlier, is bad PR and you wonder why people are **ed. Thanks CCP Originally by:** CCP Greyscale :facepalm:
Captain Mastiff	Posted - 2010.12.16 18:19:00 - [258] Originally by: white kight Originally by: Spark Rinn While this doesn't affect me, the change affects different players' strategic choices rather dramatically. I can accept the explaination given, even though it is flawed as many people have pointed out. However, this is a major PR desaster, because the explaination should have been given before the changes took place. In any case, "free remap" doesn't imply remap timer reset. Agreed. I haven't got a free remap at all either, its just moved it forward a couple of months. Promoting this as a FREE remap without explaining that its actually the one you are entitled to, just its a month or 2 earlier, is bad PR and you wonder why people are ****ed. Thanks CCP Yep thanks CCP for a useless timer reset seeing as I had a year planned out. Now whoopdie doo I have my timer reset and a remap 2 months too early which will do nothing until my plan is finished. Many other players can deviate away from their plan for the notorious Charisma skills and return back to a normal plan. Thanks a lot, fantastic use of your own game mechanics Bravo CCP.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.12.16 18:23:00 - [259] Originally by: white kight Originally by: Spark Rinn While this doesn't affect me, the change affects different players' strategic choices rather dramatically. I can accept the explaination given, even though it is flawed as many people have pointed out. However, this is a major PR desaster, because the explaination should have been given before the changes took place. In any case, "free remap" doesn't imply remap timer reset. Agreed. I haven't got a free remap at all either, its just moved it forward a couple of months. Promoting this as a FREE remap without explaining that its actually the one you are entitled to, just its a month or 2 earlier, is bad PR and you wonder why people are ****ed. Thanks CCP And it is precisely a re-occurence of the attitudes that so surpised CCP regarding perceptions of even handed customer service/moderation and the admitted failures in communications that led to far more play ire than needed (call a spade a spade ... making a rhetorical suggestion that they'ed be promoting 'hoarding' for those who were actively using the remap process but adding another to people already collecting them is definitely casting false allusions to support a decision)
Mia Restolo	Posted - 2010.12.16 18:34:00 - [260] Originally by: Miss Pristine Your conclusion for group 2 is wrong. The other character on this account started after the remap implementation. I used 1 remap and had one left over. Now I have 2, not 3. But was that remap more than a year ago? According to what the devs were saying it looks like there might be an invisible timer started any time a remap is used even if you still have a remap available. It looks like a running timer results in one free remap, but no timer at all results in +2 remaps if you have one still available from character creation, while having one available from an expired timer results in +1. I recall doing something similar in a program when different variables were selected for an equation depending on certain conditions. I'm guessing that character creation and implemented/gift remaps have a different variable name or type from the remaps that become available when a timer expires. For example, the timer one may be a Boolean (true or false) while the others are integers so players can have more than one. They probably had something that logically works like this (Disclaimer: it's informal, probably has errors, and is guesswork based on personal experience and forum reports ): if remapCounter > 0 remapCounter++ else if remapTimerActive = false remapCounter++ else if remapTimerActive = true remapTimerActive = false So at this point a remap would be allowed if either the timer isn't active or the remap counter is higher than 0. It explains the seemingly high number of remaps in certain conditions. Also it was run through twice, the 15th and the 16th using the remap data from the 14th both times, so any remap or timer expiration event between the patches would add another remap.

Maxsim Goratiev Gallente Imperial Tau Syndicate	Posted - 2010.12.16 18:35:00 - [261] Originally by: CCP Prism X Perhaps it is important to re-iterate on this: The reason people who already had an implicit respec (after waiting for a year or more) got TWO is because if they'd only gotten ONE they would actually have gotten ZERO. Explanation: They'd already earned ONE through waiting. This is an indisputable fact. The reason they get TWO is because when they remap, they lose ONE free respec and the timer is UPDATED. If they had been set to ONE free respec that would leave them at ZERO and with a refreshed timestamp. That's ONE respec they can do after having earned one through waiting and getting another one from us. Those that had not earned anything have their free respec. You can chose to use it whenever you want but when you gain a new one through waiting it's not going to increment that numbers. You cannot hoard free respecs by design. Again: If you had no respecs you were, effectively, reset a year back giving you a respec. If you were already a year back resetting you a year back would give you nothing. Please bear in mind that waiting for two years does not grant you two respecs. They do not accrue! I laughed so hard at this thread. You guys tried to make a gift. You gave everyone a remap. In most games that would mean happy players tinkering with their new re-maips. In EVE you get a 10 page whine thread TO people: I had my remap due in a couple weeks. I am not sitting here *****ing. Get over it, spend that SP you got on gunnery and get back to killing each-other as usual,
Karia Sur	Posted - 2010.12.16 18:45:00 - [262] Originally by: Maxsim Goratiev ...... yet another 1 who cant see the implications of CCP giving free gifts to a select propertion of the userbase.
Amberlamps	Posted - 2010.12.16 18:48:00 - [263] Originally by: Karia Sur Originally by: Maxsim Goratiev ...... yet another 1 who cant see the implications of CCP giving free gifts to a select propertion of the userbase. As well as someone who can't count page numbers, we haven't hit 10 yet... but we will do!
Cyaxares II	Posted - 2010.12.16 18:51:00 - [264] Originally by: HyperZerg I read about some experiments some years ago: You have 2 person, and 100$. One person splits the potand the other have to aceppt it. If he doesn't none gets the money. If you say 50/50 it will be accepted If you say 33/67 its a boared and has good chances to be accepted If you say 10/90 it won't be accepted The interesting part was, when they tested it with monkey, they would even accept the 10/90 offer. So, if I would get a 0,3 free remap and others get 2, I would say, better give them to none then this. If I would get 1, and the others 2, I would accept it, even if it's a little unfair. the ultimatum game (that's what this experiment is called) rests on the assumption (and this assumption is made clear to the players beforehand) that both players won't meet again/are not in direct competition (so considerations of "how does he do seen relative to me" are guaranteed not to be rational because however much money he gets you won't be affected by his wealth/power).
Amberlamps	Posted - 2010.12.16 18:55:00 - [265] Originally by: Cyaxares II Originally by: HyperZerg I read about some experiments some years ago: You have 2 person, and 100$. One person splits the potand the other have to aceppt it. If he doesn't none gets the money. If you say 50/50 it will be accepted If you say 33/67 its a boared and has good chances to be accepted If you say 10/90 it won't be accepted The interesting part was, when they tested it with monkey, they would even accept the 10/90 offer. So, if I would get a 0,3 free remap and others get 2, I would say, better give them to none then this. If I would get 1, and the others 2, I would accept it, even if it's a little unfair. the ultimatum game (that's what this experiment is called) rests on the assumption (and this assumption is made clear to the players beforehand) that both players won't meet again/are not in direct competition (so considerations of "how does he do seen relative to me" are guaranteed not to be rational because however much money he gets you won't be affected by his wealth/power). So it looks like this ultimatum game example is completely irrelvant if the assumptions are made that players will not affect each other in the future. Perhaps like WoW with its individual servers, where as Eve is clusters on one large server and the whole butterfly effect shows what one player does effects another... it looks like CCPs ideas are lookin a little transparent now
Arte The Darkness Within	Posted - 2010.12.16 19:08:00 - [266] I only have one remap - the 'gift' bought my remap date forward by 2 months. I'm really happy about that and I don't care that others may have the chance to do 2 remaps. It doesn't affect what I do in the slightest. How much of a boost someone has in game due to remaps is the same about complaining that people can get isk if they're richer by buying and selling plex. "they have real life money, why should they have an advantage over me in this game" I genuinely think that people complaining about this are in for a long and stressful life - somethings matter, this isn't one of them. If you're not happy with this, you're probably not happy that some people drive a nicer car than you because they won the lottery and you didn't and get really jealous that Santa didn't bring you as nice presents as Joey next door got when you were both 2. It's a game, get over it. Happy Christmas* insert/delete festive greeting of choice for all you other-God fearing/ignoring people out there. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally by:* CCP Whisper "So you're going to have to do some actual thinking..."
Commander Phoenix m3 Corp	Posted - 2010.12.16 19:17:00 - [267] Originally by: Arte I only have one remap - the 'gift' bought my remap date forward by 2 months. I'm really happy about that and I don't care that others may have the chance to do 2 remaps. It doesn't affect what I do in the slightest. Congratulations. I'm happy to have my remap bought forward, gives me a choice of remapping now or later. Would be happier if I had 2 remaps listed or if I was currently mapped for charisma skills as I want to train some. Hey ho! ---------------------------- -It's a big rock. Can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big.
Arte The Darkness Within	Posted - 2010.12.16 19:21:00 - [268] Originally by: Commander Phoenix Originally by: Arte I only have one remap - the 'gift' bought my remap date forward by 2 months. I'm really happy about that and I don't care that others may have the chance to do 2 remaps. It doesn't affect what I do in the slightest. Would be happier ....... Hey ho! That's it precisely in my opinion. Sure it would be nice, but the fact that some folks got it and we didn't - doesn't change what you or I got in the slightest .07 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally by: CCP Whisper "So you're going to have to do some actual thinking..."
So Cash	Posted - 2010.12.16 19:28:00 - [269] Originally by: Arte Originally by: Commander Phoenix Originally by: Arte I only have one remap - the 'gift' bought my remap date forward by 2 months. I'm really happy about that and I don't care that others may have the chance to do 2 remaps. It doesn't affect what I do in the slightest. Would be happier ....... Hey ho! That's it precisely in my opinion. Sure it would be nice, but the fact that some folks got it and we didn't - doesn't change what you or I got in the slightest .07 Guess the next thing CCP implement and fail to evenly distribute they'll never address because you are happy you at least got part of it. If you had planned your skills out your plan should be optimal for a year and then a remap, bringing the remap forward a few days or months with the remap reset doesn't help most people in the foggiest as our plans don't finish up to or after the previous remap date. I do however have a big concern now that if I want to remap for charisma skills I will have to endure soul destroying poor SP/Hour on all other useful skills.
Commander Phoenix m3 Corp	Posted - 2010.12.16 19:29:00 - [270] Edited by: Commander Phoenix on 16/12/2010 19:39:22 Originally by: Arte That's it precisely in my opinion. Sure it would be nice, but the fact that some folks got it and we didn't - doesn't change what you or I got in the slightest .07 Yes! I'm gonna remap off of my Int/Mem current mapping. I've been trying to get some extra ship skills, now is a good time :) It does mean that I won't get round to training those astrometric skills to 5 for over a year, but they can wait :) ---------------------------- -It's a big rock. Can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big.

Passageway Gallente	Posted - 2010.12.16 20:23:00 - [271] Originally by: Chaos Incarnate I think all this rabble rabble was for naught, brotatos logged in to see that i have two remaps available, when previously i had zero and would receive a new one tomorrow afternoon. So...everyone who spent their remaps should be getting two, not one. Everyone who had one got bumped up to three. Well that's interesting, because I had one available, now I have two. That seems fair, but are you saying I should have three? Secondly, sorry if this has been answered, but could I remap now, then remap again in a couple of weeks? Or would the first remap hold for a year until I could use the second?
Veilag	Posted - 2010.12.16 20:27:00 - [272] Originally by: Passageway Originally by: Chaos Incarnate I think all this rabble rabble was for naught, brotatos logged in to see that i have two remaps available, when previously i had zero and would receive a new one tomorrow afternoon. So...everyone who spent their remaps should be getting two, not one. Everyone who had one got bumped up to three. Well that's interesting, because I had one available, now I have two. That seems fair, but are you saying I should have three? Secondly, sorry if this has been answered, but could I remap now, then remap again in a couple of weeks? Or would the first remap hold for a year until I could use the second? available remaps can be used whenever you like.
Argerlich Landstreicher	Posted - 2010.12.16 20:34:00 - [273] Edited by: Argerlich Landstreicher on 16/12/2010 20:34:00 What the hell....i only have 1 remap...not 2 nor 3 like other people. Does this mean I've been a bad boy and i don't get my christmas present?
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2010.12.16 20:40:00 - [274] Originally by: Commander Phoenix Originally by: Commander Phoenix I also have another character who was created on 2010.01.10 Had used 1 of the 2 available remaps and didn't use the other one. He has now got 2 remaps, not 3 like my other character. I also have yet another character created on 2009.11.30. Has used (at least) 1 remap and now has 3 available. I have to admit to a slight confusion. As an older player, I still remember the attribute distribution we used to do as part of character creation. My last three alts were created under the new system, but for some reason I either never noticed or just forgot that I did a remap on all three right after I created them. I just created a new character now and it appeared in space with 20,20,19,20,20 attributes and 2 available remaps. Assuming that is not a change and that previous new charaters started with 8,8,7,8,8 attributes then those last three alts all had just one remap available before the patch, and they all ended up with 3 available remaps after both of the last two downtimes. The most recent character was created on 2009/12/23, the rest are older. I can't explain what the difference would be between it and the two you mention, but let me throw out two off the wall theories. 1) Age of account: Although my most recent alt is less than a year old, the account is older than a year so maybe your 2010.01.10 character is from an account that is younger than one year. 2) All my accounts were remapped to IM in part to accelerate learning (but also because they are research production alts) so maybe with the removal of learning skills, IM remaps were given an extra remap. Like I said, off the wall theories but that's all I got besides pure randomness.
Amberlamps	Posted - 2010.12.16 20:55:00 - [275] I think I just bumped into this thread.
Mia Restolo	Posted - 2010.12.16 21:30:00 - [276] Originally by: Claire Voyant ... The most recent character was created on 2009/12/23, the rest are older. I can't explain what the difference would be between it and the two you mention, but let me throw out two off the wall theories. 1) Age of account: Although my most recent alt is less than a year old, the account is older than a year so maybe your 2010.01.10 character is from an account that is younger than one year. 2) All my accounts were remapped to IM in part to accelerate learning (but also because they are research production alts) so maybe with the removal of learning skills, IM remaps were given an extra remap. Like I said, off the wall theories but that's all I got besides pure randomness. I posted a theory earlier that covered this. If a character last remapped more than a year ago and still has their second character creation remap, OR has never remapped at all. They receive a remap for A. - Having a remap timer that is inactive (even if it wasn't visible due to having an available remap, Dev explanation) B. - Having a granted remap point already available. So I think it's not based on the age of the account, but the age of the last remap combined with granted remap points still being available. So an old, never remapped character receives two > total 3. A newer never remapped character gets one > total 3. A newer character who remapped once more than one year ago gets two > total 3. And a newer character who remapped once less than a year ago gets one > total 2.
Pingu Gallente Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2010.12.16 21:31:00 - [277] Was said before but worth repeating: A free remap is not a timer reset. Free remap for me is +1 remap. Timer reset saves me a few days. The plex for remaps thread convinces me that this is worth arguing (and petitioning) about as I am losing a lot compared to someone whose remap timer expired on the day before the patch.
Commander Phoenix m3 Corp	Posted - 2010.12.16 21:34:00 - [278] Originally by: Mia Restolo So an old, never remapped character receives two > total 3. A newer never remapped character gets one > total 3. A newer character who remapped once more than one year ago gets two > total 3. And a newer character who remapped once less than a year ago gets one > total 2. Yeah, that sounds about right. ---------------------------- -It's a big rock. Can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big.
Dawne Xi Minmatar 3D Salvage and Acquisitions	Posted - 2010.12.16 21:50:00 - [279] Originally by: Mia Restolo So an old, never remapped character receives two > total 3. A newer never remapped character gets one > total 3. A newer character who remapped once more than one year ago gets two > total 3. And a newer character who remapped once less than a year ago gets one > total 2. You left out, Any character who had no remaps available, and whose timer had not expired, got their timer reset > total 1.
Mia Restolo	Posted - 2010.12.16 22:09:00 - [280] Originally by: Dawne Xi Originally by: Mia Restolo So an old, never remapped character receives two > total 3. A newer never remapped character gets one > total 3. A newer character who remapped once more than one year ago gets two > total 3. And a newer character who remapped once less than a year ago gets one > total 2. You left out, Any character who had no remaps available, and whose timer had not expired, got their timer reset > total 1. And also characters that had one because their timer had ended received one > total 2. I was expanding on Claire's list trying to explain why some people seem to have gotten two.

Mag's the united Negative Ten.	Posted - 2010.12.16 22:14:00 - [281] And they called the 72sp/h crowd, whiners. This lot take it to a whole new level. Originally by: Allestin Villimar Also, if your bookmarks are too far out, they can and will ban you for it. Originally by: Torothanax Low population in w systems makes afk cloaking unattractive.
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2010.12.16 22:56:00 - [282] Edited by: Claire Voyant on 16/12/2010 22:57:37 Originally by: Mia Restolo So an old, never remapped character receives two > total 3. A newer never remapped character gets one > total 3. A newer character who remapped once more than one year ago gets two > total 3. And a newer character who remapped once less than a year ago gets one > total 2. Except one of my characters created on 2009/12/23 and remapped that same day now has three remaps available. As an aside, I've just realized that 8 of my 9 characters got one more remap than they should have. I would be pretty p*ssed if my main only had the timer reset with a few months to go. CCP would be wise to revisit this and maybe give everyone who had their timer reset an extra remap.
Mia Restolo	Posted - 2010.12.16 23:19:00 - [283] Originally by: Claire Voyant ... Except one of my characters created on 2009/12/23 and remapped that same day now has three remaps available. Interesting... maybe one of the changes between the 15th and 16th patches was extending the cutoff point by a few weeks? Do you know if that character had two or three remaps on the 15th? I know my main had a remap due on the 15th, only had one remap at that point and now has two.
Londo Mallari	Posted - 2010.12.16 23:51:00 - [284] I used wednesdays free remap on this char yesterday resetting my timer to 1 year... After todays patch, this char now has 2 remaps availlable My other 2 chars only got 1 each funny part is this char is just and alt, that will struggle to use them over the next year Go figure...
Zora'e	Posted - 2010.12.17 00:56:00 - [285] I 'think' this character had a remap available last week (I may be wrong, I actually don't remember when my last remap was). But I don't think I got the "gift" remap (however I did remap yesterday anyway as I switched my training goals). My other character had a remap as well, and got the gift remap so now has 2 remaps available. However in the long run it really doesn't matter if I did or did not receive a remap as my skill training time has still been reduced by the removal of the learning skills and a flat rate put in place. I understand how some would feel not getting a remap would be an issue, but for me.. meh it really doesn't matter that much. - - - - - - - - - -
Claire Voyant	Posted - 2010.12.17 01:21:00 - [286] Originally by: Mia Restolo Originally by: Claire Voyant ... Except one of my characters created on 2009/12/23 and remapped that same day now has three remaps available. Interesting... maybe one of the changes between the 15th and 16th patches was extending the cutoff point by a few weeks? Do you know if that character had two or three remaps on the 15th? I know my main had a remap due on the 15th, only had one remap at that point and now has two. That character along with 6 others had 3 remaps available after both downtimes.
white kight Galaxy Punks Dead Terrorists	Posted - 2010.12.17 15:45:00 - [287] I love how a thread like this would get completely ignored by ccp. I'll always CCP's christmas gift in 2010, a crap ship that looks like crap and a 2 month early remap when others get a free one on top. Cheers ccp. Originally by: CCP Greyscale :facepalm:
Dawne Xi Minmatar 3D Salvage and Acquisitions	Posted - 2010.12.17 17:43:00 - [288] I think I've figured out what CCP Prism was trying to say and didn't convey very well at all. I'm only going to talk about characters created BEFORE Apocrypha came out in March 2009. Since Apoc came out in March 2009, any character who started using it that day could have had two remaps by now. March 2009 to March 2010 March 2010 to now So to give them a free remap, means they need to be able to remap 3 times since March 2009. So going back to what CCP Prism X said Originally by: CCP Prism X The reason people who already had an implicit respec (after waiting for a year or more) got TWO is because if they'd only gotten ONE they would actually have gotten ZERO. Explanation: They'd already earned ONE through waiting. This is an indisputable fact. The reason they get TWO is because when they remap, they lose ONE free respec and the timer is UPDATED. If they had been set to ONE free respec that would leave them at ZERO and with a refreshed timestamp. That's ONE respec they can do after having earned one through waiting and getting another one from us. I think he's saying here that anyone who has never remapped waited a year or more and sort of "earned" a respec because they never used it in the first place, so giving them +1 remap now would be like giving them nothing. So they decided to give them +2 remaps, because removal of learning skills, and getting back up to 5 million SP's could have an impact on how you would be training now. Ok that's great, I understand this. Except CCP Prism X... You totally left out a group of people who DID wait over a year since Apocrypha had come out to remap, and may have only remapped their very first time within the last few months. Namely anyone who remapped their very first time after March 2010. I would say using your logic, those people also had an implicit respec because that had waited a year or more. THOSE are the people that are getting the short end of this remap gift, because all they got was a timer reset. So I say anyone who did wait a year or more to remap/respec for the first time, since the release of Apocrypha, should have gotten +2 remaps, like that group of people that you said had never remapped.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.12.17 21:23:00 - [289] Why is having two stacked remaps so much better than having one remap ? Because it allows for a long range plan where you can spend less that a 1 year period "specced" to an otherwise un-optomal solution. to cut to the short, the 3 months would be spent specced for drones in the very odd Memory - peception bias . The vast majority of skills are either intel-memory based, or perception - willpower based... both with more than enough very valuable attributes to train over a year on . (if you've been smart you'll have used the couple remaps and 6 months or so to get your chactater 7 million in skills that will let them be a useful pilot in many areas) At some poioont though.. you'll want to get your drone skils up to a more elite level. Most though won't want to spend a full year on them. During that time the very odd memory-perception biast is your friend....and even while you'r in Intel mode your memory will be far from maxed and your perception will be almost at its minimum. When you train drones in the either intel or or perception biased mode you'll be trainingabout 25% slower . If you use a 1.5 million a month rule of thumb that about 350k a month you could have saved training drones for whatever period that you had bent that way.. for me, that would have been getting about 1 million more sp sooner. That was going to be worth spending 350 million hard grounded (well actually easily traded) isk to buy a remap.... but charcters nixed that remap thing. Then CCP gives an extra remap to lots of people.. allowing them to spend less than a year specced a certain way.. but they don't give it to me.. So my irritation is doubled.. first for the remap per plex change (only wanted onee bought with game play effort) and then for this taunting me with dangling what I wanted but only giving it to other charractrs... a larg number of who couldn't be bothered to use them .
Amberlamps	Posted - 2010.12.17 21:48:00 - [290] Guess ccp are going to remain very silent and brush this under the carpet?

Claire Voyant	Posted - 2010.12.17 22:26:00 - [291] It's very easy to understand their logic: -If you've never done a remap, or still have a spare remap, obviously you don't need extra remaps, so you get 3 (or in some cases 2.) - If you've done a remap, but more than a year ago, you need remaps a little more, so you get 2. - If you've done a remap in the last year, you are likely to get the most use out of a remap so you only get a timer reset. Sounds fair to me ;-)
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.12.18 00:07:00 - [292] Edited by: Diomedes Calypso on 18/12/2010 00:10:19 Originally by: Amberlamps Guess ccp are going to remain very silent and brush this under the carpet? Won't be any decision makers on over the weekend But, it will never be too late to correct unfair treament.. they can do in next week, next month, or in a year. There's no such thing as "that was a long time ago" bring it up each month forever ... if it weren't something that they could fairly easily sort out how to do after a few weeks or a month it would be a different matter... i can see how they might not have time now.
Etheoma	Posted - 2010.12.18 02:24:00 - [293] I didn't get a free remap...
Amberlamps	Posted - 2010.12.18 21:33:00 - [294] Originally by: Etheoma I didn't get a free remap... Neither did a lot of people they just got a timer reset.
Enraged Stoat	Posted - 2010.12.18 21:58:00 - [295] So if you had a timer running this free remap was also immediately spent on resetting the timer without your consent. Personally I would have preferred to have waited the 3 weeks the timer had left and ended up with a new available regular remap; and the original gifted one left available for use if needed after a drunken night of remapping fail. That does suck, and is rather unfair. Confirming earlier posts in the thread about "leave timer alone, add one free remap to everyone" would have been a better implementation.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.12.18 22:34:00 - [296] If I got stacked remap (on the timer date a "earned" one was do me )like those who had one got it stacked to two, for 3 months of the year I could: switch from a to a maxed intel/memory that I have now with a remap that was coming up in march , in time for me to have maxed shield skills, covert cyno ablity, almost maxed ecm, targetting etc. Then switch to memory / perception for 3 months and train drones at somethin like 2700 instead of 2000 ish. Need to get t2 heavy drones, drone int v, fighters five, fighter bombers 4 Then with a stacked remap , I could switch to max perception / wilpower after 3 or 4 months. Speccing memory/willpower is worthless for a year term Thats a real example that I was planning if I could get a stacked remap. They gave a stacked remap to all my alts that don't need it but not my PVP toon that was actively useing, not hoarding the remaps. That disadvantage will cost me more than 1 milllion sp as the differnce in 2011 between what i could have gotten with what other people got and the far less that they gave probably 150,000 other characters. Would be given a 1 milllion sp shortfall in a year get you angry? Its a fair bit of sp ...worth about 200million isk if I planned to sell.(but i don't plan to sell my main) So, if you don't care much about 1 million sp , think of it as them giving something of 200million isk in value (and I would have haplily paid 350 million isk earned in active game play). Givng half the characters something of that value and not giving the other that is a major difference. Not enough to emo-quit the game... but enough to raise a stink about and persistently appeal to logic and fairness over the next few months.
Staggerr Broski North	Posted - 2010.12.18 22:37:00 - [297] Edited by: Staggerr on 18/12/2010 22:41:52 Originally by: Amberlamps Guess ccp are going to remain very silent and brush this under the carpet? Petitioning my non-existing free remap resulted in the following: If you had a remap available you were supposed to get another one. If you had a timer running it was supposed to have finished it instantly. People receiving more than one remap was a mistake which might, or might not be, fixed. Last time I saw somebody quote a GM people got mad, so I rewrote it. Yeah finishing a timer (be it 2 months left on it) is considered a 'free remap'. And yes, they (or atleast the GM) admitted to have **ed up. We can all safely assume that since they ed up, they aren't gonna risk **ing up again by undoing anything. Hurray for CCP, hurray for carpets.
Amberlamps	Posted - 2010.12.19 05:17:00 - [298] Originally by: Staggerr Edited by: Staggerr on 18/12/2010 22:41:52 Originally by: Amberlamps Guess ccp are going to remain very silent and brush this under the carpet? Petitioning my non-existing free remap resulted in the following: If you had a remap available you were supposed to get another one. If you had a timer running it was supposed to have finished it instantly. People receiving more than one remap was a mistake which might, or might not be, fixed. Last time I saw somebody quote a GM people got mad, so I rewrote it. Yeah finishing a timer (be it 2 months left on it) is considered a 'free remap'. And yes, they (or atleast the GM) admitted to have **ed up. We can all safely assume that since they ed up, they aren't gonna risk **ing up again by undoing anything. Hurray for CCP, hurray for carpets. I wonder what will happen if I say I didn't get my free remap I had one but not my second. Wonder if they'll actually bother checking the logs or just give me one anyway
white kight Galaxy Punks Dead Terrorists	Posted - 2010.12.19 06:17:00 - [299] Originally by: Amberlamps Originally by: Staggerr Edited by: Staggerr on 18/12/2010 22:41:52 Originally by: Amberlamps Guess ccp are going to remain very silent and brush this under the carpet? Petitioning my non-existing free remap resulted in the following: If you had a remap available you were supposed to get another one. If you had a timer running it was supposed to have finished it instantly. People receiving more than one remap was a mistake which might, or might not be, fixed. Last time I saw somebody quote a GM people got mad, so I rewrote it. Yeah finishing a timer (be it 2 months left on it) is considered a 'free remap'. And yes, they (or atleast the GM) admitted to have **ed up. We can all safely assume that since they ed up, they aren't gonna risk ing up again by undoing anything. Hurray for CCP, hurray for carpets. I wonder what will happen if I say I didn't get my free remap I had one but not my second. Wonder if they'll actually bother checking the logs or just give me one anyway Meh, the logs show nothing anyway. Resetting a timer that may have had 1 day, it may have had a couple of months and calling it a "Free" remap is extremely bad advertisement from CCP. I would like to see if CCP decide to fix this!!! Would always be nice for CCP to actually address the concerns of the eve community, instead of closing their eyes, hands over ears saying "La la la la i can't hear you" Originally by:** CCP Greyscale :facepalm:
So Cash	Posted - 2010.12.19 20:01:00 - [300] Originally by: white kight Would always be nice for CCP to actually address the concerns of the eve community, instead of closing their eyes, hands over ears saying "La la la la i can't hear you" Yeh seems to be the impression I get everytime CCP slip up.

Kuso Tabeteshine	Posted - 2010.12.19 20:35:00 - [301] Been watching this thread since the beginning and I can't believe CCP has not posted an answer. I too had a remap coming up soon and so it seems that I'm now at a disadvantage compared to players that already got one and didn't use it.
Captain Mastiff	Posted - 2010.12.19 22:12:00 - [302] Yup, looks like we'll just have to keep this thread bumped up until they get fed up and actually give us a response. It's rather irritating that the Devs just overlook the thread, we know they're browsing the forums as you see responses on the most silly questions that can be answered in NPC corp chat. Though as soon as it's something questioning their motives or in fact their lack of motivation to commit to quality patches they go silent. Reminds me of the whole Roflket threadnaught, the only responses we got from CCP were actually "Removing post due to spam".
Jor Zeelot	Posted - 2010.12.20 01:01:00 - [303] Quite obviously they don't actually know themselves. I guess the programmers never told them and they don't feel bothered to ask. We will have to wait until they find out through empirical means. Then they will come here and answer it, after players who themselves found out by the same empirical means already answered it for us.
Emperor D'Hoffryn EXTERMINATUS. Nulli Secunda	Posted - 2010.12.20 07:07:00 - [304] posting to bump and add that I did not get a free remap. I got .5 a free remap. Had I gotten an actual free remap, I would now have 1.5 remaps and I would get the the last .5 for 2 remaps sometime in june. At least this unfairness is random, and no player could intentionally make use of it, but its still not fair. some people got a whole free remap. I got a 6 months off my timer. Bleh. Originally by: CCP Whisper No it is not an official statement. Not everything surrounded by blue bars is an official statement which can be quoted as fact until the end of time. Deal with it.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.12.20 08:56:00 - [305] Guys.. remember that its not the other half of the .5 that is the real issue. The issue is the Stacking... getting an remap stacked means that you can make a plan where you train something for less than 6 months before switching...extremely valuable for something like a pvp player moving to a capital ship and needing 3 + months of drones (and 4+ without remapping specifically). That is not an unusual situation at all (there are others like getting up to mega corp managment or super wcommand etc where charisma would be the key for a few months) Over 3 or 4 months you can easily gain 1 million more sp during that short peirod if you have STACKED remaps..that they gave out so liberally to maybe 60% plus of characters. Also, the fraction of a remap are really far less than the fraction they imply. Oviously if you just remapped you wouldn't want to remap again for at least a few months... but most of us think ahead peopel make a plan to expire exactly when the next remap was due.. my .3 of a remap is worth nothing because i need the current attributes to finish up some stuff before i map the opposite way. Remapping means planning ahead... a suprise shortening does no good unless you planned poorly. No if they gave something like a .5 of a remap that meant i could remap again in 6 months ? (LOL ok im warping the concept irreperably) the point is if we had known 8 months ago that we would get a fraction of a remap perhaps it would be worth that whole fraction if we had the time to plan ahead. so Tldr.. we didn't even get the value of fraction of an implant..and the real real advantage that other playes were given was the stacked nature of the implants that allow significantly higher training speeds in less common primary skills for the less than year period needed.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.12.20 09:01:00 - [306] Remeber too that they were going to sell remaps for a plex a piece... current value of about 350 million isk. Those were going to be valuable because you could use them when you wanted them . Other characters were just given 350 million isk basically and you weren't (probably worth more than that to most of us on certain characters.. I'd pay more for each when i want to train to get my main into a carrier ... they aren't worth a thing hardly on cyno alts etc(well latent value if ever sold or developed after moving a high sp off the account)
white kight Galaxy Punks Dead Terrorists	Posted - 2010.12.20 09:56:00 - [307] At the end of the day it was marketed as a FREE remap, which implied that it was an extra one on top. The 1 year timer is too long anyway, but I think what most people object to is being told 1 thing, another thing happening and then being completely ignored when they complain about it. Its not like CCP isn't reading the forums, they are just chosing to try to brush this one under the carpet. Originally by: CCP Greyscale :facepalm:
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2010.12.20 10:32:00 - [308] Originally by: white kight At the end of the day it was marketed as a FREE remap, which implied that it was an extra one on top. The 1 year timer is too long anyway, but I think what most people object to is being told 1 thing, another thing happening and then being completely ignored when they complain about it. Its not like CCP isn't reading the forums, they are just chosing to try to brush this one under the carpet. Well I do imagine that the people who would make a decision will probably be on vacation this week and next ... at least not able to conference together in a way to come up with a solution all are on board with. So, keep your frustration hot ... spread it to your corpmates and bring it up en-mass the first week in January... everyone should be able to quantify it better once the evemon voluneers (salute to them) get the ap we love back up to full operation. (btw my anger the firs day was totally set off by the little explanation post we got pretenting like it was all logical and had been well thought out etc and was as fair as they could get or soemthing....the actual statment warped in so many ways that I lost my cool ... i've soothed myself thinking it was a mistake made in haste with a quick last minute change by the worng department turning it upside down)
Pingu Gallente Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2010.12.20 11:39:00 - [309] Originally by: CCP Prism X I'm not telling you the design is flawless, but the implementation is by design. Not getting a free remap will cost me 656640 skillpoints, or about two weeks training over the course of next year. This is based on a loss of 180 sp/hour for 152 days when compared to someone who has the same skills in their queue as me but who actually got a free remap and not just a timer reset. This design and implementation is indeed far from flawless, it causes an imbalance within the game and needs corrected. Originally by: CCP Prism X Echelon Just to add about the Echelon, if we never got one I dont think anyone would care. Comparing this to a remap, which is exceptionally useful, or using the Echelon as any sort of argument here shows bad judgement indeed. To put this another way, I can buy an Echelon on the market any time but can you show me where I can buy the 656640 skill points I will be losing?
Amberlamps	Posted - 2010.12.20 16:22:00 - [310] At the end of the day we all know SP/Hour is important SP is the only thing in Eve we can't speed up. If someone else gets more than me per hour because someone couldn't be bothered to implement a proper system then I'm not a happy bunny.

So Cash	Posted - 2010.12.22 19:25:00 - [311] Edited by: So Cash on 22/12/2010 19:25:31 Originally by: Miss Pristine Edited by: Miss Pristine on 15/12/2010 17:56:07 Edited by: Miss Pristine on 15/12/2010 17:45:14 I have a remap that will be available on Jan 5. With the free remap they just gave us... Will this just reset the remap I will receive in Jan? Meaning... If I use this remap, will it create a new countdown and my old one will go away? If I save the remap till the original was available, will I have 2 then? You use your remap now, you have to wait a year. You wait till January nothing will happen no extra remap for waiting the year. Sucks eh? Apparently not according to the lack of responses from CCP.
Dawne Xi Minmatar 3D Salvage and Acquisitions	Posted - 2010.12.23 23:59:00 - [312] If I had waited a couple of months, I'd have 3 remaps right now, instead I got my timer reset about 9 to 10 months before the end of my current remap. This is what makes me not like how this was implemented. Especially when CCP has said that those who never remapped had an implicit remap and were given 2 remaps. Well what about those of us who only remapped for the very first time a couple of months ago? Didn't we earn an implicit remap too? Or are you saying because we remapped, we lost the implicit remap? Total Fail on implementing this CCP.
Dawne Xi Minmatar 3D Salvage and Acquisitions	Posted - 2010.12.28 19:50:00 - [313] Would at least like to see CCP post on this thread one last time and admit they screwed this up.
Syn Callibri Minmatar 21st Eridani Lighthorse Broken Chains Alliance	Posted - 2010.12.28 19:53:00 - [314] "...the logs show nothing to support your petition." Thats what the magic 8-ball told me just now. Commander Tac-Ops
Shadow Sleuth	Posted - 2010.12.29 12:50:00 - [315] My next remap was due end of Jan.. now it's available, but I still need to finish my queue before Jan, otherwise I won't be able to train ships efficiantly for a year... the so called 'free' remap would have meant i could get a little more in before end of Jan, but as it is for all intents and purposes I didn't get a free remap... Filed a petition and GM grave is trying to tell me it wasn't a christmas present... it's a learning skill refund, because they changed our base attributes we should be allowed to remap... He can't seem to explain adequately why though... How is anyone going to change there skillplan due to the refund? Effectively we all got the same gift, but for some of us it'll make a huge skill training advantage, for others it's completely useless... which puts us at a disadvantage. We all pay the same subscription, but in this sandbox some of us get a shovel, others get ****. CCP ought not to meddled with remaps or given us rempas that don't mess with the timer. A dev said earlier in this topic that people that have waited a year deserve there hard earned remap.... but apparently if you waited 11 months you are SOL. Sense of entitlement is not what we're dealing with here... it's a level playing ground.
Ifly Uwalk Caldari Empire Tax Collection Agency	Posted - 2010.12.29 13:36:00 - [316] Everyone afflicted should read this thread and show support: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1439580 Cheers
Shadow Sleuth	Posted - 2010.12.30 10:28:00 - [317] Edited by: Shadow Sleuth on 30/12/2010 10:28:11 http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1440049&page=1 Alternate sugestion to the CSM for a fix ... seperate the timer and the granted remap.
Nakaota	Posted - 2011.01.06 00:22:00 - [318] Edited by: Nakaota on 06/01/2011 00:23:13 Nothing ever gets accomplished on the assembly hall forums. It's just an elaborate dead end set up to make people feel like they're being heard. So, my theory is that CCP simply DOESN'T KNOW how to fix the issue. So they applied the remaps to all accounts, and in many cases incorrectly, and now they have no way of knowing who had how many remaps pre-patch. The thing that bothers me is the fact that they won't say ANYTHING. I guess they're hoping that most people are too dumb to realize how they got screwed and this will just blow over. And they're probably right.
Dawne Xi Minmatar 3D Salvage and Acquisitions	Posted - 2011.01.15 04:25:00 - [319] Yeah probably hoping it will blow over .. just one more thing....
Ifly Uwalk Caldari Empire Tax Collection Agency	Posted - 2011.01.15 15:33:00 - [320] Originally by: Nakaota I guess they're hoping that most people are too dumb to realize how they got screwed and this will just blow over. And they're probably right. This tbh.

Captain Mastiff	Posted - 2011.01.15 19:45:00 - [321] Agreed, I still haven't got round to using the remap because my plan doesn't finish for another month two months. Would of sure been nice to train a different path for a few months though...
Major Snitch	Posted - 2011.01.15 20:07:00 - [322] Edited by: Major Snitch on 15/01/2011 20:08:43 Yes CCP screwed over player's on this ...and yes they don't care the (no comment reply there plan) what come's around goes around some day they will go to far and i will be there to laugh in there face incursion is going to fail and CCP keeps griefing there core player base. and the core player base is what keeps this game alive ....when this happen CCP can i have your stuff
Commander Phoenix m3 Corp	Posted - 2011.01.16 14:12:00 - [323] Yeah. My remap was originally due to end in June. I've still not used my 'free remap' and won't until... Wait for it... June! ---------------------------- -It's a big rock. Can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big.
Widemouth Deepthroat	Posted - 2011.01.16 16:39:00 - [324] Edited by: Widemouth Deepthroat on 16/01/2011 16:39:59 I ended up with 2 remaps. If they give the whiners who only got the timer reset an additional remap then I should also get an extra one since the only reason I ended up with 2 is I had one saved (didn't burn it like the whiners). The whiners won't think that is fair so they'll want an extra one, but then so will I.
Commander Phoenix m3 Corp	Posted - 2011.01.18 03:58:00 - [325] I don't want another remap. I want a my timer reset in June not to be affected if I remap now with my 'free remap' ---------------------------- -It's a big rock. Can't wait to tell my friends. They don't have a rock this big.
Pilot Test	Posted - 2011.01.18 09:35:00 - [326] I am happy with my 3 remaps still not used :D
Deleros Revo	Posted - 2011.01.31 15:55:00 - [327] Originally by: Commander Phoenix I don't want another remap. I want a my timer reset in June not to be affected if I remap now with my 'free remap' This


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