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Carniflex
StarHunt
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.12.19 09:52:00 -
[1]
I would like to take the opportunity to get my torch and pitchfork and stab a bit on those T2 BPO's. The lottery was mistake! Burn em all!
The interesting thing is that 'average player' would not even notice if they would be gone. You see - average player usually does not use 50 mm armor platers, tech 2. Those items that average players does use are already price capped by the invention so if T2 BPO exsist somewhere or not is irrelevant for that price.
There is no competition between T2 BPO's and invention. T2 BPO's fill the amount of demand they can and then there is some empty space and then invention is filling that is left after that.
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Carniflex
StarHunt
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.12.19 12:59:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Mr Dilkington
Quote:
There is no competition between T2 BPO's and invention. T2 BPO's fill the amount of demand they can and then there is some empty space and then invention is filling that is left after that.
If you are going to type such crap, at least link us to some proof in some way.
It is in fact, the other way around to how you describe it, Inventors fill up the majoirty of demand, do you even know how many t2 bpos there are of the good mods that actually sell ?
didnt think so, dont post such tripe unless you can back it up.
The math can be found in gazillion threads about T2 BPO vs invention etc etc. I'll make it simple for you though and try to avoid big confusing words.
The usual item example. Market demand for some T2 item is lets say 1000 units a month. All the T2 BPO's in the game can make 600 units for that item per month. Cost per item is 'X'. The remaining 400 units of the demand is filled by the invention at cost per item 'X*Y+invention cost', where Y is additional waste over the BPO on invented BPC and invention cost is cost of datacores and BPCs/decryptors per run. Item market price is 'X*Y+invention cost' + profit margin. T2 BPO owners just get a bit bigger profit margin part.
The low demand item example. Market demand for some T2 item is 100 units a month. All the T2 BPO's in the game can still make 600 units of that item per month with cost per item at 'X'. There is no remaining demand to be filled by invention, as items market price is X + profit margin, that is lower than 'X*Y+invention cost' + profit margin or even just 'X*Y+invention cost'.
See there is no competition. First T2 BPO's make as many items as they can, as their production ability per time unit is finite. If there is still market left (and for most items there is) the invention steps in and makes those items - that is why we can get hulks for less than 700 mil and ice miner II does not cost ~70 mil / unit. My first ice miner II module I bought was 70 mil back before invention. Cap recharger II was about 30 mil / unit. Invention is good thing for this game. Existence of T2 BPO's however - unless you are producer they are irrelevant as all they do is to make few low demand items unprofitable to invent. Most people would not notice if 50 mm T2 armor plates would double or triple in price after removal of T2 BPO's from the game.
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Carniflex
StarHunt
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.12.19 20:33:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Brian Ballsack
No need for the sarcasm and arrogance, i can produce more items via invention than one guy can with one BPO, so you are wrong and no amount of maths can prove me otherwise.
You seem to imply that poor BPO owner somehow loses all the remaining slots available to one as soon as he uses the BPO for production. So a T2 producer can make more items with his BPO + n-1 slots left after entering that BPO into production than you. Invented prints have negative PE afterall.
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Carniflex
There is no competition between T2 BPO's and invention. T2 BPO's fill the amount of demand they can and then there is some empty space and then invention is filling that is left after that.
True.
But you make it sound as if it's a bad thing.
It's not.
This is matter of opinion. Some see it as bad thing some dont. I myself dont like T2 BPO's bcos of they were distributed not bcos I would feel strong urge to produce command ships or something else that is not profitable to do so as a result of T2 BPO's.
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Carniflex
StarHunt
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.12.20 08:14:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Carniflex
This is matter of opinion. Some see it as bad thing some dont. I myself dont like T2 BPO's bcos of they were distributed not bcos I would feel strong urge to produce command ships or something else that is not profitable to do so as a result of T2 BPO's.
Considering the generally accepted fact that the vast majority of the "relevant" ones have already changed hands since their initial distribution, most likely several times over... how exactly would their removal make anything better ?
We do not have hard data to back it up either way all we can do is to speculate how many are in the hands of original owners and how many are not.
Afterall regardless of not being anymore fountains of liquid isk they are still pretty decent 'passive' income source if we are talking about "relevant" ones.
Those that have been traded, I'm not convinced that they have been traded with 'clean' isk, considering the relatively irrational amounts of isk involved. Ofc for people that run bots or have used other cheats they are great way of laundering some isk as titans and moms being numerous enough for isk laundering are relatively fresh phenomenon. Yes, there might be honest persons mixed in in the T2 BPO market but I suspect those would be the minority.
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Carniflex
StarHunt
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.12.20 10:15:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Tozmeister
There is hard data. Just go back over the Buy and Sell section of the forums for the past 6+ years.
Add on an arbitrary amount for private trades, say 25%, and you have pretty damn good approximation of the scope of the T2 BPO market even if not an exact figure.
You can get number of times a particular type of BPO has been traded in public there, but cant identify in any way if it was the same X prints traded rather frequently over and over again with small interval or were they all unique prints. I myself suspect small number of prints traded frequently in the isk laundering process. To one direction sells with suddently legimatized isk flowing in the direction of 'seller' and shortly thereafter a scam/corp theft/just was floating in this jetcan honestly move of the BPO to another alt of the 'seller' who then sells it again.
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Carniflex
StarHunt
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.12.22 07:24:00 -
[6]
There is by the way ongoing vote in the CSM section for removal of the T2 BPO's.
CSM vote.
Have fun :)
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Carniflex
StarHunt
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2010.12.22 09:40:00 -
[7]
Originally by: looking great
I agree lets take away every t2 from the game. 
Sure why not. I would not be happy if my widow turns into scorpion and golems into raven but meh, if it happens to everyone else as well I could live with it. Would just have to use carrier instead of widow to haul my pod around.
The game would be more new player friendly as well as there would not be the notable jump between T2 guns and T1 guns in fleets (as a result of T2 ammo). On the downside we would lose all ships that can warp cloaked.
Would have to find new use for moon minerals - I would suspect that this would be building meta items from BPC's that can be aquired though the invention process for meta items instead of T2.
Even if currently in game T2 items would remain it would not be a huge game breaker as every time you use your T2 item you can be blown up. Unlike T2 BPO's.
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