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Pistrik Minmatar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2010.12.20 15:52:00 - [31] Originally by: Nimsir Originally by: Nimsir /facepalm
Skippermonkey Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2010.12.20 15:53:00 - [32] Originally by: Crowlin Gallanus Edited by: Crowlin Gallanus on 20/12/2010 02:38:52 Quote: ORE Industrial Skill Bonus: 5% bonus to Tractor Beam and Salvager cycle time and 60% bonus to Tractor Beam range and velocity per level. 20km x 1.6 = 32km 32km x 1.6 = 51.2km 51.2km x 1.6 = 81.92km 81.92km x 1.6 = 131.07km 131.07km x 1.6 = 209.72km 500m/s x 1.6 = 800m/s 800m/s x 1.6 = 1280m/s 1280m/s x 1.6 = 2048m/s 2048m/s x 1.6 = 3277m/s 3277m/s x 1.6 = 5243m/s And yes, I'm using all available T2 modules, however there is no T2 tractor beam. Hey, didnt you used to work for Lehman Brothers? Originally by: CCP Capslock OH GOD THE TESTING
Indeterminacy THORN Syndicate Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.12.20 15:59:00 - [33] Actually, CCPs language is a bit misleading and implies a cumulative bonus, applied per level. They're not giving you a 60% bonus per level....rather they are adding 60% of the base value per level and should really make this more clear. I can' easily see why newer players or those who don't get out much would come here expecting lolTractorRange and end leave disappointed.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.12.20 16:30:00 - [34] Originally by: Indeterminacy Actually, CCPs language is a bit misleading and implies a cumulative bonus, applied per level. That's not really CCP's fault ù that's just an inherent problem of the common (sloppy) habit of having "%" stand for both percent and percentage points. The final bonus is always expressed in terms of the former, whereas skill bonuses are expressed in the latter. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Killerjock	Posted - 2010.12.20 16:42:00 - [35] Originally by: Indeterminacy Actually, CCPs language is a bit misleading and implies a cumulative bonus, applied per level. They're not giving you a 60% bonus per level....rather they are adding 60% of the base value per level and should really make this more clear. I can' easily see why newer players or those who don't get out much would come here expecting lolTractorRange and end leave disappointed. I disagree. It clearly states "a 60% bonus per level". Which means 60% for each level, multiplication. It doesn't say "60% bonus at each level", which would imply that each level your preceeding value would be increased by 60%. Still, this is something you can see on EVERY SINGLE SHIP BONUS, or skill bonus, throughout the game. It never occured to the OP before the noctis!?
Indeterminacy THORN Syndicate Controlled Chaos	Posted - 2010.12.20 18:27:00 - [36] Edited by: Indeterminacy on 20/12/2010 18:27:08 Originally by: Killerjock Originally by: Indeterminacy Actually, CCPs language is a bit misleading and implies a cumulative bonus, applied per level. They're not giving you a 60% bonus per level....rather they are adding 60% of the base value per level and should really make this more clear. I can' easily see why newer players or those who don't get out much would come here expecting lolTractorRange and end leave disappointed. I disagree. It clearly states "a 60% bonus per level". On your first remark, is "a bonus of 60% of the base value per level" more clear? I believe it's actually quite precise. Originally by: Killerjock this is something you can see on EVERY SINGLE SHIP BONUS Either way, QFT.
Lutz Major Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo	Posted - 2010.12.20 18:56:00 - [37] Originally by: Flaming Candle It seems that you have also fallen for a common mistake: a +300% bonus is calculated my multiplying the original value by four, not three. so you get 20km * 4 = 80km. Dear lord. This is by far the bestest version of incorrect math interpretation that I've seen for a long time
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.12.20 20:23:00 - [38] Originally by: Lutz Major Originally by: Flaming Candle It seems that you have also fallen for a common mistake: a +300% bonus is calculated my multiplying the original value by four, not three. so you get 20km * 4 = 80km. Dear lord. This is by far the bestest version of incorrect math interpretation that I've seen for a long time What's wrong with it in your opinion? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.12.20 20:38:00 - [39] Originally by: Lutz Major Originally by: Flaming Candle It seems that you have also fallen for a common mistake: a +300% bonus is calculated my multiplying the original value by four, not three. so you get 20km * 4 = 80km. Dear lord. This is by far the bestest version of incorrect math interpretation that I've seen for a long time Whether it's correct or incorrect, it's how the game works... But to be completely honest, I forget to add the base value again after the multiplier pretty often too. (The first time I bothered, I calculated the max skill Noctis range as 60KM. Whoops.) ùùùùù Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.12.20 21:21:00 - [40] Originally by: Seriously Bored Whether it's correct or incorrect, it's how the game works... It's also how percentages work. ¦x% ≡ +(1¦0.01x) ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Lutz Major Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo	Posted - 2010.12.20 21:40:00 - [41] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Seriously Bored Whether it's correct or incorrect, it's how the game works... It's also how percentages work. ¦x% ≡ +(1¦0.01x) you found that on Wikipedia, didnt you? and to answer your previous post Originally by: Tippia What's wrong with it in your opinion? Nothing, Tippia, as long as you belong to those people, who do not mind the equation as long as the result is 'correct'. You know, 2 + 2 is the same as 2 * 2 ... and that stuff
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.12.20 21:46:00 - [42] Originally by: Lutz Major you found that on Wikipedia, didnt you? No. Quote: and to answer your previous post [à] Nothing, Tippia, as long as you belong to those people, who do not mind the equation as long as the result is 'correct'. Why causes you to put those apostrophes there? Also, you failed to answer what's actually wrong with ità Quote: You know, 2 + 2 is the same as 2 * 2 ... and that stuff No, that's not quite the same thing. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Lutz Major Austriae Est Imperare Orbi Universo	Posted - 2010.12.20 22:01:00 - [43] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Lutz Major You know, 2 + 2 is the same as 2 * 2 ... and that stuff No, that's not quite the same thing. Originally by: Flaming Candle It seems that you have also fallen for a common mistake: a +300% bonus is calculated my multiplying the original value by four, not three. so you get 20km * 4 = 80km. ... and just like 20 + 300% is not the very same as 20 * 4.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.12.20 22:02:00 - [44] Edited by: Tippia on 20/12/2010 22:03:42 Originally by: Lutz Major and just like 20 + 300% is not the very same as 20 * 4. Why not? And more to the point, what is it then, in your opinion? Oh, and there is a rather significant difference between 2+2 and 20+300% ù can you spot it? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.12.20 22:02:00 - [45] Originally by: Tippia Why causes you to put those apostrophes there? Also, you failed to answer what's actually wrong with ità Nothing really, but the choice for the variable may have tripped him up ('x' for the variable as well as the multiplication sign). Contrast with: +y% = x(1+0.01y) Or if you want an equation in game terms: final stat = base stat (1+0.01bonus valuerank) Eah. If he's disputing that those things are equivalent, he should be capable of typing something better... ùùùùù Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2010.12.20 22:06:00 - [46] Originally by: Seriously Bored Nothing really, but the choice for the variable may have tripped him up ('x' for the variable as well as the multiplication sign). Pff! They're completely different unless your font (or font rendering) is screwed up x+x+x+xà See? The multiplication sign is smaller and sits a pixel or two off the base line. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Transient Drifter	Posted - 2010.12.20 22:39:00 - [47] and who says a public education isn't worth something these days!!
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.12.20 22:56:00 - [48] Originally by: Transient Drifter and who says a public education isn't worth something these days!! -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died -
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.12.20 22:58:00 - [49] Originally by: Transient Drifter and who says a public education isn't worth something these days!! Haha, well, you learn what's useful to you. This game has a stupid amount of numbers that need to get tossed around just to figure out how you can best make someone else go explodey. It's kind of like how most US citizens couldn't convert a pound to a kilo to save their lives, while drug dealers tend to be pretty good with the metric system. ùùùùù Originally by: CCP Big Dumb Object When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed.
Liang Nuren Parsec Flux War.Pigs.	Posted - 2010.12.20 23:05:00 - [50] Originally by: Seriously Bored It's kind of like how most US citizens couldn't convert a pound to a kilo to save their lives, while drug dealers tend to be pretty good with the metric system. Man I think it's running about 1500 pounds per kilo right now. Wait. What are we talking about? -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died -
Seriously Bored Minmatar	Posted - 2010.12.20 23:09:00 - [51] Edited by: Seriously Bored on 20/12/2010 23:13:09 Originally by: Liang Nuren Man I think it's running about 1500 pounds per kilo right now. That's some dank **. ED: Wait. Divided by 16oz instead of 35oz for a kg. Dammit, why must I be the perfect example of my own statement! ùùùùù Originally by:** CCP Big Dumb Object When I nerf something, it takes 2-3 months for your dreams to be crushed.
Jovan Geldon Gallente Lead Farmers Kill It With Fire	Posted - 2010.12.20 23:54:00 - [52] Originally by: Crowlin Gallanus Actually my math was perfectly fine, it was simply the wrong math to use (wrong equation). Once again I love how players from the big alliances like goonswarm and pandemic are also the biggest *****s in the game. Simply fantastic. XD My alliance is pretty small and I can be a complete too. What a wonderful game this is, where no one group has a monopoly on acting like a ******. You deserve it though. Think things through before posting, numnuts, or you'll get rightly mocked at every turn.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles	Posted - 2010.12.21 00:18:00 - [53] Originally by: Norag The bonus does not stack that way for ANY bonus in EvE In before Margin Trading --- 34.4:1 mineral compression
Angeltara Royal Black Watch Highlanders Warped Aggression	Posted - 2010.12.21 16:11:00 - [54] Originally by: Jovan Geldon You deserve it though. Think things through before posting, numnuts, or you'll get rightly mocked at every turn. Its spelled 'numbnuts' you numbnut. Follow your own advice.
Pharabus II	Posted - 2010.12.21 16:17:00 - [55] see, this is why I love Eve, non existant nerf thread turns into a mathmatical flame war, where else??
Cataca	Posted - 2010.12.21 16:59:00 - [56] Actually eves system of "stacking" bonuses or not is rather inconsistent. Resistances stack with each other, cpu reduction for modules per shield level does as well i imagine the same is true with market skills that deal with tax reduction, tho i have no experience there. I can understand how you could make the mistake.
Sean Faust Gallente Point of No Return Waterboard	Posted - 2010.12.21 17:04:00 - [57] Edited by: Sean Faust on 21/12/2010 17:05:44 I wonder how many ships would be insta-volleyed by an Arty tempest if damage modifiers worked off of the same cumulative math that the OP used to calculate the Noctis' bonus. Without doing the math, I'm pretty sure it would be safe to say that anything subcapital would die in a single volley.

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