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Silence iKillYouu
KA POW POW Inc
Late Night Alliance
192
   |
Posted - 2012.08.15 01:36:00 -
[91] - Quote
David Devant wrote:This is really just an accident of geography. The reason the amarr militia proper has never got close to higher tiers is because they are unwilling to commit to a long campaign in Metropolis 30 jumps away from their home systems. I can't really blame you. At the minute Metropolis is just handing out free lp to the "Minmatar Militia" and I don't imagine there's any Amarr there to contest it in the way that QCATS and EM did. Tell me if I'm wrong.
I'm sure there's also a large element of pro farming going on as you say. People will have committed alt slots to the Minmatar Militia seeing their potential for Tier 5 control and will have been unwilling to make the switch to Amarr. I'm often pretty terrible at making predictions, but I'll stick my neck out. The Amarr militia will never reach Tier 5 with out the aid of a null power block.
I'm not gloating by the way. I think the current system is stupid and should be changed ASAP. However, don't be so childish as to identify the Minmatar Militia with the LP whores, they are not our fault. Also, you should be man enough to concede the back breaking work that was put in long prior to inferno in order to secure so many systems in Devoid and the Bleaks.
We moved to and took control of amaar space.
http://fw-frontline.blogspot.com/ |
Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous
Late Night Alliance
377
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 06:33:00 -
[92] - Quote
Silence iKillYouu wrote:David Devant wrote:This is really just an accident of geography. The reason the amarr militia proper has never got close to higher tiers is because they are unwilling to commit to a long campaign in Metropolis 30 jumps away from their home systems. I can't really blame you. At the minute Metropolis is just handing out free lp to the "Minmatar Militia" and I don't imagine there's any Amarr there to contest it in the way that QCATS and EM did. Tell me if I'm wrong.
I'm sure there's also a large element of pro farming going on as you say. People will have committed alt slots to the Minmatar Militia seeing their potential for Tier 5 control and will have been unwilling to make the switch to Amarr. I'm often pretty terrible at making predictions, but I'll stick my neck out. The Amarr militia will never reach Tier 5 with out the aid of a null power block.
I'm not gloating by the way. I think the current system is stupid and should be changed ASAP. However, don't be so childish as to identify the Minmatar Militia with the LP whores, they are not our fault. Also, you should be man enough to concede the back breaking work that was put in long prior to inferno in order to secure so many systems in Devoid and the Bleaks. We moved to and took control of amaar space.
Yeah, a lot of people forget that the Bleak Lands and Devoid were almost entirely Amarr controlled back in the day. Auga and Vard were the front lines. Minmatar leadership heard about the coming changes and we made an active effort to push in, take space and control the warzone before Inferno hit and we were making money off it.
Still, I think there should be a lot more connectivity between Metropolis and the rest of the warzone. It's obnoxious (at least for LNA) that you have to go a billion jumps to get to Metro, would be very convenient if there were some more pipes connecting it to the Amarr side.
Sa souvraya niende misain ye. |
Lexmana
701
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 07:18:00 -
[93] - Quote
Cearain wrote:Lexmana wrote:Yuri Intaki wrote:Lexmana wrote:I take it that you think current mechanics are fine and enjoy the fact that both wealth and FW control is being decided by the number of farmers a faction can field and that these farmers can be very low sp and don't even need to fit guns. No I dont think so in the least and i've voiced my displeasure of it in other threads and nowhere I said that Amarr should HTFU*. I have quite enough minmatar carebears like Xuixien in our space whose achievements in Eve are limited to running away and spamming local. *Unless you count suggestions that perhaps when systems are flipped, Amarr could attempt to create more dynamic battlefield by putting some "boots" to Metropolis. Amarr could probably do more to make FW more interesting I agree. But thing is, we are facing such a huge plexing army that we need to have a very strong presence to be able to defend a single system. And right now we can only manage that in a few systems mainly in the kamela/kourm area. . I think this brings raises a couple of points. 1) we should have kept plexing longer to hit tier 5. Not only for the payout. But so that we would have more time to bring in a larger stable of farmers. We were gaining alt farmers. But then we cut it short .
Yeah, we could probably have grown our alt farming wing if we had managed to get to T5. The sad thing is that such is the winning strategy with current mechanics. The FW-game is about attracting players that are willing to dedicate a character slot for semi-AFK orbiting buttons in stabbed ships without guns.
Anyone looking for meaningful fights in FW is going to be disappointed to find that PvP combat is only a side game.
Fun fact: this is supposed to be a testbed for null sovereignty mechanics. Wouldn't it be hilarious if sov in null also was decided by gunless farmers orbiting buttons in stabbed ships? |
Lexmana
701
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 07:26:00 -
[94] - Quote
Seraphine Keratuus wrote:Just one little thing about the current level of contestion. Yesterday Amarr were upgrading to T4 and many Pilots in the Minmatar Militia went out to try to bump that down again. By Plexing. Which has a shocking sideeffekt: It contests the sytems! (just in case you werent aware  ) I have no doubt the alt-army of doom, death and destruction will descent once more onto the Amarr but most of that initial push was from the "take them out of T4 again"-Campaign.
You would like to think that but the fact is that your efforts on the Amarr T4 day was just a drop in the ocean. The first day was the slowest day and since then farming has picked up pace. The new prediction is that Minmatar will be ready for T5 by DT tomorrow. That is less than four days of farming and almost twice as fast as predictions made on the first day. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
395
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 09:35:00 -
[95] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:Anyone looking for meaningful fights in FW is going to be disappointed to find that PvP combat is only a side game. Meaningful PvP is done in home systems all the time. Carry on with rant.
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Lexmana
701
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 09:57:00 -
[96] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Lexmana wrote:Anyone looking for meaningful fights in FW is going to be disappointed to find that PvP combat is only a side game. Meaningful PvP is done in home systems all the time. Carry on with rant.
Nice straw-man. But you are right, home systems is worth fighting over (do we really need fancy FW mechanics for that?). I guess you are trying to say that it proves that FW is working as intended and arguing the contrary is just whining. |
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
548
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 11:37:00 -
[97] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Lexmana wrote:Anyone looking for meaningful fights in FW is going to be disappointed to find that PvP combat is only a side game. Meaningful PvP is done in home systems all the time. Carry on with rant.
Smart people don't make their home system in fw space. It just to be saddles them with the burdern of having their eve spent defensive plexing - usuallly with no wts ever even coming in the plex.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
Cearain
Imperial Outlaws
548
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 11:52:00 -
[98] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:Cearain wrote:Lexmana wrote:Yuri Intaki wrote:Lexmana wrote:I take it that you think current mechanics are fine and enjoy the fact that both wealth and FW control is being decided by the number of farmers a faction can field and that these farmers can be very low sp and don't even need to fit guns. No I dont think so in the least and i've voiced my displeasure of it in other threads and nowhere I said that Amarr should HTFU*. I have quite enough minmatar carebears like Xuixien in our space whose achievements in Eve are limited to running away and spamming local. *Unless you count suggestions that perhaps when systems are flipped, Amarr could attempt to create more dynamic battlefield by putting some "boots" to Metropolis. Amarr could probably do more to make FW more interesting I agree. But thing is, we are facing such a huge plexing army that we need to have a very strong presence to be able to defend a single system. And right now we can only manage that in a few systems mainly in the kamela/kourm area. . I think this brings raises a couple of points. 1) we should have kept plexing longer to hit tier 5. Not only for the payout. But so that we would have more time to bring in a larger stable of farmers. We were gaining alt farmers. But then we cut it short . Yeah, we could probably have grown our alt farming wing if we had managed to get to T5. The sad thing is that such is the winning strategy with current mechanics. The FW-game is about attracting players that are willing to dedicate a character slot for semi-AFK orbiting buttons in stabbed ships without guns.
Keep in mind that inferno didn't make plexing this way it just rewarded this conduct. Many people said just adding rewards would make plexing pvp. Well it didn't - at least not directly. It added more people to faction war. And by adding more pilots in the same amount of space you will have more explosions. But the actual mechanics are such that you will plex most efficiently if you never pvp.
Also it doesn't really matter if your ships have guns or not. If the activity of plexing is most efficiently done as a pve activity where you avoid pvp fw sov will remain a joke.
Winning the war with pve drakes that have to warp away from wts will not make fw any better. For those who think they will get some easy hero ganks against carebear ***** it will rarely happen. They will be aligned when they see you on dscan and they will have mwd and cloaks for gates.
Seriously try running some major offensive plexes in a bc other than a heavy missile drake. Try to stay on the button the whole time and tell me if you don't need to at least some extent gimp your ship to keep up with the rats.
Make faction war occupancy pvp instead of pve
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=53815&#post53815
|
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
396
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 13:08:00 -
[99] - Quote
Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Lexmana wrote:Anyone looking for meaningful fights in FW is going to be disappointed to find that PvP combat is only a side game. Meaningful PvP is done in home systems all the time. Carry on with rant. Smart people don't make their home system in fw space. It just to be saddles them with the burdern of having their eve spent defensive plexing - usuallly with no wts ever even coming in the plex. The people who want fights put their ships where the fights are - in low sec, and in FW space.
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X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
396
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 13:25:00 -
[100] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Lexmana wrote:Anyone looking for meaningful fights in FW is going to be disappointed to find that PvP combat is only a side game. Meaningful PvP is done in home systems all the time. Carry on with rant. Nice straw-man. But you are right, home systems is worth fighting over (do we really need fancy FW mechanics for that?). I guess you are trying to say that it proves that FW is working as intended and arguing the contrary is just whining.
I'm arguing two things:
1. You're whining too much, and
2. There actually are meaningful fights in FW.
Everybody and his brother agrees the afk plexing alt thing is FUBAR, but right now therer's nothing any of us can do about it until CCP implements a fix. So instead of continually whining about it nonstop only when your side is losing occupancy warfare, enjoy the ride. There is plenty of fun pvp to be had all over FW space if you would only quit:
1. Taking Occupancy Warfare personally (why do you care about a FUBAR metric?), and
2. Worrying about how much isk an afk plexing alt can make running plexes.
Man up! Don't give me this "But My Faction will never make it out of Tier 1" whinage either. You're in FW for the fights right? Go out and fight.
|
Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous
Late Night Alliance
377
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 13:28:00 -
[101] - Quote
Cearain wrote:X Gallentius wrote:Lexmana wrote:Anyone looking for meaningful fights in FW is going to be disappointed to find that PvP combat is only a side game. Meaningful PvP is done in home systems all the time. Carry on with rant. Smart people don't make their home system in fw space. It just to be saddles them with the burdern of having their eve spent defensive plexing - usuallly with no wts ever even coming in the plex.
TBH, Cearain, you are dead wrong. Some of the best fights happen when one side is deplexing their home, the other side notices and mounts an offense, the defenders mount a defense, and then everyone ends up mounting something and usually both parties end up spent and feeling good.
Sa souvraya niende misain ye. |
Hrett
Justified Chaos
150
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 13:38:00 -
[102] - Quote
Yuri Intaki wrote:Lexmana wrote:I wouldn't mind at all if we were being pushed back by guns. That is how it should be. But that is not the case. We are pushed back by easymode semi-AFK farming alts mostly and a lot of them comes from our very own militia. That is the ****** up part about the game. Caldari militia is able to hold several enemy systems deep within enemy space and we are massively outnumbered by the Gallente in both pvp & farming toons (Most gallente players have 1-2 matar farming alts). Of course Gallente will now make the obligatory "Lies, we get blobbed all the time" post like they have done for the past years whenever someone dares to say the truth about the warzone.
I dont understand whether people dislike Lexmana because he is Amarr or because he is allegedly whining? Regardless - he is right. It is Faction WARFARE. Gunless button spinners have absolutely no place. I don't necessarily blame the players that are doing it (though I do think it is extremely lame) because it is a 'valid' mechanic. I blame CCP for not fixing such and obviously broken and (seemingly) easily fixable problem. Just make it so all of the rats must be killed. It fixes a large portion of the problem...
And I will wager that not all players have farming alts. I have none. Hell, I don't even plex very much on my main. I do fit guns on all of my ships though.
I'm probably typing on an iPad, which means the auto-correct is silly and fixing typos is a pain. I ain't fixing them. |
Peteris G
Ophidia in herba
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 13:56:00 -
[103] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:
Everybody and his brother agrees the afk plexing alt thing is FUBAR, but right now therer's nothing any of us can do about it until CCP implements a fix. So instead of continually whining about it nonstop only when your side is losing occupancy warfare, enjoy the ride.
Voice of reason and common sense
(P.S. Still frogs must die  )
|
Thomas Kreshant
Fweddit
I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
157
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 13:57:00 -
[104] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:
Everybody and his brother agrees the afk plexing alt thing is FUBAR, but right now therer's nothing any of us can do about it until CCP implements a fix.
Not true, I think the current setup is just fine
|
Wenron
Rifterlings
Ushra'Khan
49
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 14:12:00 -
[105] - Quote
Thomas Kreshant wrote:X Gallentius wrote:
Everybody and his brother agrees the afk plexing alt thing is FUBAR, but right now therer's nothing any of us can do about it until CCP implements a fix.
Not true, I think the current setup is just fine
But you are special. |
Thomas Kreshant
Fweddit
I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
157
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 14:13:00 -
[106] - Quote
Why do you keep saying that exactly?
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Peteris G
Ophidia in herba
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 14:16:00 -
[107] - Quote
Thomas Kreshant wrote:Why do you keep saying that exactly?
You quoted message that is two days old... well... I am not that rude and will not call You window licker, but... are not Your questions slightly too late? |
Thomas Kreshant
Fweddit
I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
157
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 14:19:00 -
[108] - Quote
Wenron wrote:
But you are special.
Thanks I'm glad you think so but I'm not gay so just no.........
|
Thomas Kreshant
Fweddit
I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
157
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 14:19:00 -
[109] - Quote
Peteris G wrote:Thomas Kreshant wrote:Why do you keep saying that exactly? You quoted message that is two days old... well... I am not that rude and will not call You window licker, but... are not Your questions slightly too late?
No I want to know why you keep saying he's from test? |
Peteris G
Ophidia in herba
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 14:26:00 -
[110] - Quote
Thomas Kreshant wrote:Peteris G wrote:Thomas Kreshant wrote:Why do you keep saying that exactly? You quoted message that is two days old... well... I am not that rude and will not call You window licker, but... are not Your questions slightly too late? No I want to know why you keep saying he's from test?
Statement "keep saying" suppose that I did it multiple times and still keep doing that. Truth is - there was only one such statement. So I can't answer to Your question due obvious fact - You question implies false facts.  |
Thomas Kreshant
Fweddit
I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
157
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 14:32:00 -
[111] - Quote
Peteris G wrote: You question implies false facts.
What fact?
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Peteris G
Ophidia in herba
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 14:38:00 -
[112] - Quote
Thomas Kreshant wrote:Peteris G wrote: You question implies false facts. What fact?
That one |
Thomas Kreshant
Fweddit
I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
157
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 14:41:00 -
[113] - Quote
Peteris G wrote:Thomas Kreshant wrote:Peteris G wrote: You question implies false facts. What fact? That one
Which one? |
Peteris G
Ophidia in herba
7
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 14:42:00 -
[114] - Quote
Thomas Kreshant wrote:Peteris G wrote:Thomas Kreshant wrote:Peteris G wrote: You question implies false facts. What fact? That one Which one?
One that You mentioned |
Thomas Kreshant
Fweddit
I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
157
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 14:55:00 -
[115] - Quote
Peteris G wrote:
One that You mentioned
I've got multiple personalities so you'll need to explain. |
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
209
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 15:00:00 -
[116] - Quote
/combo breaker
Thomas Kreshant wrote:X Gallentius wrote:
Everybody and his brother agrees the afk plexing alt thing is FUBAR
Not true, I think the current setup is just fine
It's fine? I flew around Devoid for a bit. Found ten plex farmers who avoided me completely. Found a few SB missioners who avoided me completely. Avoided a Daredevil+Firetail pair running a mission. Found a Rifter and engaged him in my Executioner! Finally!
Turns out, an AB Rifter without a web can escape from an AB Executioner without a web, so I only got a moral victory out of that. Then he came back with an Ishkur and it turned out that an AB Ishkur with a web has the edge in range control. This was way cooler than having a Slasher hide in a safespot until I'd go away, or having a Merlin immediately warp to a gate and leave a system when I landed on grid.
Oh, but I found that Rifter at a lowsec exploration site, not a plex. And he came right back in an Ishkur and fought me again because he wasn't in FW and could reasonably leave ships in the local station. So all that I got out of this roam from FW was a bunch of non-combat experiences with alts.
Now X Gallentius, who is not being disingenuous at all, would like Amarr to allow that they're in FW for PvP and so they should just shut up and enjoy the PvP. (Oh, and other factions can shut up too, even though they have nothing to complain about and therefore hardly ever complain except to wish for stuff like easier own-goals.) Fine, but why be in FW then? Seems like the advantages for Amarr have dwindled to:
1. You can gain some faction standing, you carebear.
2. You can aggress a bunch of people without security status penalties, you pansy.
3. You gain some frenemies. Oh geez, why don't you just set TEST blue while you're at it? Or cast magic missile, you role player?
4. Enemy militia who live in a system have a very slight incentive to try to engage you when you're in a plex in that system, rather than ignore you and deplex it when you're not around.
But if you're in FW for a little while you'll gain all the faction standing you can get, and security status isn't that big of a deal, and it's not like you can't have blues and allies without CCP setting up play-dates for you. So #1-#3 aren't much. #4 is... something, but I doubt anyone's decided not to resign after thinking about it. I imagine people actually stay in the Amarr Militia due to
1. Wanting to fight for the Empire against the Republic. A light roleplaying motive that's largely betrayed by the warzone control, a system in which the worst thing Amarrians can do is ever reclaim a system for the Empire. No, the smart thing is to have just three or so systems for ages and ages, then cash out, then apr+¿s cash out le d+¬luge, then do it again. How inspiring! Let's raise the flag!
2. Hoping that the system will one day not suck and they'd get the normal amenities of FW again, like being able to bluster about only wanting pvp without having to get a day job. But they'd better not talk about how it might be changed to not suck, or about how specifically it sucks right now, because then they'll be whining and other people will be terribly disappointed in them! |
Thomas Kreshant
Fweddit
I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
157
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 15:10:00 -
[117] - Quote
Kuehnelt wrote:/combo breaker
It's fine? I flew around Devoid for a bit. Found ten plex farmers who avoided me completely. Found a few SB missioners who avoided me completely. Avoided a Daredevil+Firetail pair running a mission. Found a Rifter and engaged him in my Executioner! Finally!
Yes it's fine as Soundwave said himself there is nothing wrong with people wanting to do FW just to farm LP or do missions there is zero requirement for people to have to PVP, you can force them to pvp (die) if you can catch them of course but as he said it's not his (CCP) job to tell people how to play eve. |
Kuehnelt
Devoid Privateering
209
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 15:24:00 -
[118] - Quote
Thomas Kreshant wrote:Yes it's fine as Soundwave said himself there is nothing wrong with people wanting to do FW just to farm LP or do missions there is zero requirement for people to have to PVP, you can force them to pvp (die) if you can catch them of course but as he said it's not his (CCP) job to tell people how to play eve.
He also asked if there's a problem with that. Well, one problem with plex farmers is that they're actively boring to have around. They're just noise, making it harder for people who want to fight to find other people who want to fight. And didn't he say this in the context of FW missions, which are unambiguous farming sites? I did mention missioners, but I didn't really expect a fight from bombers. |
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
397
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 15:35:00 -
[119] - Quote
Kuehnelt wrote:
.... more whinage....
I have a solution for you. GTFO of FW before you have a heart attack and your head explodes. Come back when they implement afk alt plexing fix.
Or, console yourself with the fact that the Amarr pushed the Minmatar out of one of their main home systems. Amarr 1, Minmatar 0 so far. See what I did there? I gave you a metric that really means something you and your Amarr brothers can be proud of.
Feel better about yourself? (You should, kicking somebody out of a home system is pretty impressive).
|
Thomas Kreshant
Fweddit
I Whip My Slaves Back and Forth
157
|
Posted - 2012.08.15 15:42:00 -
[120] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:. Come back when they implement afk alt plexing fix.
People keep going AFK alts all the time but i've never met any of these so called afk plexers.
99.999% of the plexers I've seen while on fresh characters like mine (FW does ruin standings on a main) they've all been present and simply grinding out LP to fund whatever else they do in eve. |
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