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Major Sackrash
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Posted - 2010.12.23 13:33:00 -
[1]
Look, it's like this. All the other tier 2 BC do around 700 dps while having a tank of around 60kehp but the drake, for some reason, get's 100kehp while doing 700 dps, and that's without implants or faction modules. Show me a standard BC setup that will kill this, not some specialised drake killer setup. You can't can you, cause it's broken. NERF!
[Drake, Broken] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Warp Scrambler II Large Shield Extender II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Small Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Hobgoblin II x5
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FACLON ALT
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Posted - 2010.12.23 13:39:00 -
[2]
Ships are supposed to be balanced?
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Jaina Sunspot
Agent-Orange Nabaal Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.23 14:20:00 -
[3]
Edited by: Jaina Sunspot on 23/12/2010 14:20:34
Hurricane: Enhanced Speed, Agility, Duel Medium Neutralisers.
Harbinger: 70-80EHP, 50m3 Drone Bay, Cap Booster and Neutraliser.
Myrmidon: 400-700 DPS Active Tank, 500-700 DPS Weapons, Any Choice of Turret, 150m2 Bonused Drone Bay, Unique Fitting Potential.
Seems pretty Balenced in the 5-25km Range to me.
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Korg Leaf
Time Bandits.
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Posted - 2010.12.23 14:29:00 -
[4]
As I assume you use eft for those numbers I will too, that fit does 562dps without heat and will have trouble dealing decent damage to anything smaller than a bc.
A dual rep myrm will both tank this and kill you
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.12.23 14:44:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 23/12/2010 14:44:28 And a cane will kite you and kill you also, well with enough skills and t2 long range hams you might be able to chase the cane away, but until then you are tackled while he can disengage at will.
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VillagePeople
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Posted - 2010.12.23 14:59:00 -
[6]
Hey that dumb drake fit wants to meet my LUL-FIT 1500DPS phoon... and by 700dps, do you mean not 700dps with your fit? I haven't checked but I can't imagine 700dps without Rage missiles.
Nothing wrong with drake, its powerful at what it does, but what it does is limited...
For example, what will that drake do if he gets tackled by a vagabond/nano cane/etc?.... die a slow and painful death is probably the answer as with its low speed and short range, there is not much it can do. The autocannons on a cane/lasers on a harby can usually hit & track these types of targets & the myrmidon can switch to ECM drones, warriors or whatever he needs.
Lets suppose now Mr Typhoon arrives in your belt at 25km, and proceeds to approach and point you... the drakes AWFUL speed will mean he will die where other BC may have been able to escape. Even more annoying the typhoon pilot is hitting you for some crazy DPS thanks to your large sig radius...
The drake has a very heavy tank and OK DPS but its also the slowest BC, has a huge signature radius, lowest locking speed and lacks PG/CPU for a med neut. I would rather fly a hurricane any day.
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TheMahdi
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Posted - 2010.12.23 15:13:00 -
[7]
Confirming a triple rep Myrm can beat that Drake.
Also with standard skills (HAM spec 4 and Upgrades 4 and assuming really good Drone skills too) it's only 629 DPS with Terror Rage and 5 Hobgoblin II's. That's a fit with 3 BCUII's as well, which is better than your fit.
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Gwarlord
Minmatar Periculum Kismet Scorned Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.12.23 15:19:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Major Sackrash Look, it's like this. All the other tier 2 BC do around 700 dps while having a tank of around 60kehp but the drake, for some reason, get's 100kehp while doing 700 dps, and that's without implants or faction modules. Show me a standard BC setup that will kill this, not some specialised drake killer setup. You can't can you, cause it's broken. NERF!
I take you have sat and tried every fit imaginable with your standard oribt@ tactic and failed to kill said Drake?
If I am looking for a cheap and quick answer to a tactical/fit question I simply jump in SiSi fit the ship in question and ask for some 1v1 explaining my question. Within a few tries someone will most certainly offer up a solution to your conundrum. I have had issues/questions with certain ship fittings in the past and more often then not, it is a tactical solution not a fit solution.
Yes, the Drake is an excellent tanking BC, but not far from unbeatable. Making it a popular choice for young or inexperienced pilots allowing more room for tactical error, but IMO with the right tactics endorse the Cane as a better PvP BC. EFT will tell you a ship can do X dps and has Y EHP (pay attention here -->) at stand-off/optimal range on non-moving targets. Obviously your solution lies in the latter.
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Aiwha
Caldari 101st Space Marine Force Nulli Secunda
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Posted - 2010.12.23 17:03:00 -
[9]
EFT Warriors!
AWAAAAAAAAY!
Gullible
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Omara Otawan
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Posted - 2010.12.23 19:24:00 -
[10]
Triple rep myrm will wipe it.
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Ragnar256
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.12.23 19:26:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Major Sackrash Look, it's like this. All the other tier 2 BC do around 700 dps while having a tank of around 60kehp but the drake, for some reason, get's 100kehp while doing 700 dps, and that's without implants or faction modules. Show me a standard BC setup that will kill this, not some specialised drake killer setup. You can't can you, cause it's broken. NERF!
[Drake, Broken] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Warp Scrambler II Large Shield Extender II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Small Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Hobgoblin II x5
Wouldn't this count as a specialized setup?
From my experience with fighting my corpmate's Drake, a set of 5 425mm Meta 4 Autocannons and 3 Heavy Missile Launchers will deal greater dps than his shield tank can restore using standard Phased Plasma M and Caldari Navy Scourge Heavy Missiles.
We were fighting to half armor, and by the time I lost that, only a sliver of shields remained on his Drake. I'm fairly sure if it was a fight to the death, I'd have been able to beat the Drake.
I was using a ratting setup aswell, the armor tank consisted of two hardeners (meant for Serpentis rats), an Adaptive nano plating, a Damage Control, and a T1 Armor Rep.
However, I'm sure those experienced with armor tanking knows how to properly armor tank a Cane.
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Zyress
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Posted - 2010.12.23 20:38:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Major Sackrash Look, it's like this. All the other tier 2 BC do around 700 dps while having a tank of around 60kehp but the drake, for some reason, get's 100kehp while doing 700 dps, and that's without implants or faction modules. Show me a standard BC setup that will kill this, not some specialised drake killer setup. You can't can you, cause it's broken. NERF!
[Drake, Broken] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II Power Diagnostic System II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Warp Scrambler II Large Shield Extender II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Small Energy Neutralizer II
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Hobgoblin II x5
With all level V skills this fit is 1% over on CPU Does with your drones 561 DPS not 700 and has 98,940 EHP, ok thats close enough to 100K but you were way far off otherwise.
This is a more reasonable Assault Drake Fit [Drake, Pvp HAM Drake] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Damage Control II
Y-T8 Overcharged Hydrocarbon I Microwarpdrive Faint Epsilon Warp Scrambler I Stasis Webifier II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II
Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile Heavy Assault Missile Launcher II, Caldari Navy Terror Assault Missile [empty high slot]
Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I
Warrior II x5
It fits without implants or boosters Does 599 DPS with Drones and has 83,213 EHPs
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Somal Thunder
Test Alliance Please Ignore
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Posted - 2010.12.25 17:59:00 -
[13]
fit lacks web, op is ******ed
Every thread in this forum ending with "is broken" is ******ed.
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Stig Sterling
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Posted - 2010.12.25 19:52:00 -
[14]
OMG EVE IS BROKEN!
now I feel like I am part of the community!
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Aerilis
Gallente Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.12.25 21:33:00 -
[15]
Yeah the HAM Drake is one of the best close range fleet/solo slugging BC's out there, although OP's fit is a little quirky. But the thing about close range combat is that balance doesn't matter as much when you can tackle/lock down your opponent. You can easily bring in friends, or tailor another ship to counter the ship you're having problems with.
Where imbalance really comes to light in the Eve universe is ships that can skirmish/maintain range. Meet my two favorite exhibits, the Dramiel and the HML Drake.
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Tiberu Stundrif
Waking Nightmare Inc.
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Posted - 2010.12.25 23:27:00 -
[16]
If I hear one more "NERF THE DRAKE" comment... I am going to go kill 7 Drakes to prove my point. Oh wait, I did. The Drake is not overpowered. Any ship, fitted correctly, placed in the hands of a skilled pilot can bum rush it's opponent in a 1v1.
One thing is different from other PvP ships... the Drake cannot apply its damage instantly. Also, the speed of the target ship effects the amount of damage done by the Drake.
So, to the OP, stop posting on the forums and go kill some Drakes. ---------------------------------------
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Aerilis
Gallente Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.12.26 01:18:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Tiberu Stundrif If I hear one more "NERF THE DRAKE" comment... I am going to go kill 7 Drakes to prove my point. Oh wait, I did. The Drake is not overpowered. Any ship, fitted correctly, placed in the hands of a skilled pilot can bum rush it's opponent in a 1v1.
One thing is different from other PvP ships... the Drake cannot apply its damage instantly. Also, the speed of the target ship effects the amount of damage done by the Drake.
So, to the OP, stop posting on the forums and go kill some Drakes.
I solo'd a well fit Drake in a blaster Ferox once. Killed a Dramiel in a Comet once. Bad piloting doesn't mean a ship doesn't need a nerf.
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Tiberu Stundrif
Waking Nightmare Inc.
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Posted - 2010.12.26 01:25:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Aerilis I solo'd a well fit Drake in a blaster Ferox once. Killed a Dramiel in a Comet once.
Did you just prove my point? Yes.
Originally by: Aerilis Bad piloting doesn't mean a ship doesn't need a nerf.
Do you like using double-negatives? Yes. Does your logic fail to defeat mine? Yes.
A ship needs to be nerf'd only when it can easily, and often, exit as the victor in a 1v1 engagement with it's extra-racial counterpart. The Drake is the sole missile-only battle-cruiser. Missiles for PvP are frustrating already as your damage is not applied instantly. Those of us who fly missile boats for PvP accept this downfall and make the best of it.
Tib ---------------------------------------
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Aerilis
Gallente Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.12.26 01:40:00 -
[19]
How is my logic fail? It made sense in my head before I wrote it...
You were claiming that bad piloting doesn't mean a ship needs a nerf--so I added a negative! Bad piloting doesn't mean a ship doesn't need a nerf!
That makes sense--I think...
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Morddeth
Caldari draketrain
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Posted - 2010.12.26 03:01:00 -
[20]
Don't hate the Train, hate the game.
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Portmanteau
Fumar Puede Matar
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Posted - 2010.12.26 04:18:00 -
[21]
At least it makes a change from folks citing fotm HML blob drakes as reason for nerf, but really, Drake is fine as is. One could just as easily point out Hurricane's range and speed and cry "ZOMG how do you beat cane when u can't put scram on it waaaah" :(((
horses for courses my friend
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Tiberu Stundrif
Waking Nightmare Inc.
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Posted - 2010.12.26 04:49:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Portmanteau At least it makes a change from folks citing fotm HML blob drakes as reason for nerf, but really, Drake is fine as is. One could just as easily point out Hurricane's range and speed and cry "ZOMG how do you beat cane when u can't put scram on it waaaah" :(((
horses for courses my friend
This. ---------------------------------------
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John Revenent
Caldari Revenent Defence Corperation Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive
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Posted - 2010.12.26 12:00:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Aiwha EFT Warriors!
AWAAAAAAAAY!
^^ This Your signature is too large. Spitfire
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Lyris Nairn
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2010.12.28 06:21:00 -
[24]
If the Drake is broken, then you should probably train for it instead of complaining about it.
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Estella Vance
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Posted - 2010.12.29 18:59:00 -
[25]
I just asked Scotty, the docking manager about this, and he said:
"Oh man, if your Drake is broken, you just call in starship mechanics, and fix the damn thing, instead of complaining about it on forums."
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2010.12.30 02:17:00 -
[26]
Any AB Cane with a single medium neut will wipe the floor with that setup.
Well, not any, but all but the worst failfits will.
You should try applying missile DPS to stuff that isn't MWD sigbloomed and webbed more, instead of jerking to EFT stats.
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Cordarouy Pants
Amarr Real Salmon
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Posted - 2010.12.30 03:43:00 -
[27]
Should I join Caldari?
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Aerilis
Gallente Percussive Diplomacy
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Posted - 2010.12.30 03:57:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Pohbis Any AB Cane with a single medium neut will wipe the floor with that setup.
Well, not any, but all but the worst failfits will.
You should try applying missile DPS to stuff that isn't MWD sigbloomed and webbed more, instead of jerking to EFT stats.
AB cane isn't exactly a standard setup.
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Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2010.12.30 04:20:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Pohbis on 30/12/2010 04:26:35
Originally by: Aerilis AB cane isn't exactly a standard setup.
A MWD Cane will do just fine as well, and AB Cane is as standard as that fit, since most will fit a web instead of the 3rd hardener to get more applied DPS.
Just go to battleclinic. You can see HAM drakes close to your fit dying to Canes left and right. If I wasn't so lazy I'd even post the missile formula for you so you can see how little of that DPS is actually going to be applied.
The HAM Drake certainly isn't bad, but the Cane just beats it hands down for solo PvP.
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Vikarion
Caldari draketrain
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Posted - 2010.12.30 04:34:00 -
[30]
The Drake is exactly what a heavy battlecruiser is supposed to be - if other battlecruisers don't measure up, then they should be buffed. - - -
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