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PvP and Self-destruct

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Rugs Amarr Clown Punchers. Clown Punchers Syndicate	Posted - 2010.12.28 02:07:00 - [1] How about just disabling the feature when being aggressed or when you are aggressing something? You could even use the "just wait for the boom" message for it :P Or generate a killmail for self-destructed ships, either way works.
Guy LeDuche	Posted - 2010.12.28 02:18:00 - [2] You wanted it dead, it's dead. What's the problem? Oh, wait, was it for ep3n0rs for extra kb-humping?
Lotty Granat Superior Shipyards Waterboard	Posted - 2010.12.28 03:57:00 - [3] Edited by: Lotty Granat on 28/12/2010 03:57:55 Originally by: Guy LeDuche You wanted it dead, it's dead. What's the problem? Oh, wait, was it for ep3n0rs for extra kb-humping? Actually his point is to stop people manipulating their killboad stats through the SD mechanism because their opponent isn't bringong WTFPWN DPS. It's a reasonable point. But what being agressed should not disable it otherwise you could be held in a pod until downtime (hopefully soon to be a thing of the past) by an ass who goes afk on you for 'a laugh'...
Goose99	Posted - 2010.12.28 04:06:00 - [4] Originally by: Lotty Granat Edited by: Lotty Granat on 28/12/2010 03:57:55 Originally by: Guy LeDuche You wanted it dead, it's dead. What's the problem? Oh, wait, was it for ep3n0rs for extra kb-humping? Actually his point is to stop people manipulating their killboad stats through the SD mechanism because their opponent isn't bringong WTFPWN DPS. It's a reasonable point. But what being agressed should not disable it otherwise you could be held in a pod until downtime (hopefully soon to be a thing of the past) by an ass who goes afk on you for 'a laugh'... ROFL this wins. I need to try that someday.
Chekov Nikahd Amarr	Posted - 2010.12.28 04:10:00 - [5] How about something simpler? Have the killboards track how often someone self destructs. Problem solved, no? PER AUDACIA AD ASTRA - For the bold, to the stars
Karn Velora	Posted - 2010.12.28 05:03:00 - [6] Probably attacking a non-pvp vessel to get bragging rights on some killboard, and the guy ends up cheating you with a self destruct? Tough. Attack something that won't self-destruct, and make it a fairer fight. If bragging rights weren't the reason for the attack, well the guy is dead anyway - so loot the wreck and laugh all the way to the bank. Self destructs have more advantages besides cheating you out of a kill as well you know: it's unexpected. Suddenly popping unexpectedly, you have a much lower chance to pod him - and you were going to pod him, weren't you? He gets to control the timing, and increase his chances of escaping with his implants. Let's disable self destruct so gankers get a desperately needed advantage when it comes to podding mission runners, and the miners. I vote... "no".
Black Dranzer Caldari	Posted - 2010.12.28 05:54:00 - [7] Personally, I believe SD should be instantaneous, or at least no longer than 10 seconds. \|Bounty Fix\|Mining Makeover\|
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2010.12.28 06:25:00 - [8] a secondary idea is if u are self destrcuted under aggro that the persona with the highest dps ( not npc but acutal players) recieves a modified killmail showing the target as self descturct but also shows all inflicted damage upon the ship in question it will be marked as having self destructed but a killmail will still generate this allows for SD but makes sure losses are recorded under aggresion I think its easy done nad would satisify all parties
Misanthra	Posted - 2010.12.28 07:25:00 - [9] Originally by: Guy LeDuche You wanted it dead, it's dead. What's the problem? Oh, wait, was it for ep3n0rs for extra kb-humping? sounds like you have run logis on ops a few times and gotten over not being in km's lol. Dead titan/sc is dead titan/sc...sucks no mail. Least someone lost 16 billion+ for the night and you helped make it happen. Just my thinking though...sadly was on pos ref ops alot and the enemy really didn't want that pos sinc no defence on it. Damn timers never ran out when on the next day...could be days upon days of shooting stuff with no km's :( . Someone has to put them in ref, did my part. No km's sucks but you get used to it.
Marlona Sky Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.12.28 08:07:00 - [10] I made a proposal a while back that adjusted the timer on the self destruct, docking and racial explosion from the self destruct. There still was a kill mail but it shed no modules or anything. Just showed who was on it and that it was a self destruct. The explosion that caused an AoE as a final middle finger had some Luke warm reviews but the one thing I discovered was this simple truth: Aggressors want as much as possible and the defenders want them to have as little as possible. Neither side wants to meet in the middle. You all are too damn stuborn.
AtheistOfFail Caldari	Posted - 2010.12.28 09:26:00 - [11] Originally by: Rugs How about just disabling the feature when being aggressed or when you are aggressing something? You could even use the "just wait for the boom" message for it :P Or generate a killmail for self-destructed ships, either way works. Pretty Simple Idea. If you can't kill him in 2 minutes, you obviously didn't deserve/want that kill. Simple
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2010.12.28 11:10:00 - [12] Originally by: HeliosGal a secondary idea is if u are self destrcuted under aggro that the persona with the highest dps ( not npc but acutal players) recieves a modified killmail showing the target as self descturct but also shows all inflicted damage upon the ship in question it will be marked as having self destructed but a killmail will still generate this allows for SD but makes sure losses are recorded under aggresion I think its easy done nad would satisify all parties this remains the most elegant solution if u self destruct while under aggro u generate a killmail to the person with the highest dps outside of any rats or the SD damage so youre loss i still noted
Gemberslaafje Vivicide	Posted - 2010.12.28 12:03:00 - [13] Self destruct should eat through your shield, armor and hull so that even if you stop self destruct after 1m 59s that you'd be in low structure. It should also generate a killmail. Yes, I am a killmail ***, sue me. --- Creator of the Eve Character Appraiser/Assembler: http://gemblog.nl/skill/ http://gemblog.nl/assembler/ Originally by:** De'Veldrin Welcome to the ****ing sandbox
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2010.12.28 12:09:00 - [14] Originally by: Gemberslaafje Self destruct should eat through your shield, armor and hull so that even if you stop self destruct after 1m 59s that you'd be in low structure. It should also generate a killmail. Yes, I am a killmail ***, sue me. no need = if youre aggroed and u SD u show total dps on the killmail with a self destruct tag Any other damage the km is generated to the top damage dealer as well ( player) so a killmail can show both dps and credit to those attacking and the *** out of the self destrcutee
Rugs Amarr Clown Punchers. Clown Punchers Syndicate	Posted - 2010.12.28 12:16:00 - [15] Originally by: Lotty Granat Edited by: Lotty Granat on 28/12/2010 03:57:55 Originally by: Guy LeDuche You wanted it dead, it's dead. What's the problem? Oh, wait, was it for ep3n0rs for extra kb-humping? Actually his point is to stop people manipulating their killboad stats through the SD mechanism because their opponent isn't bringong WTFPWN DPS. It's a reasonable point. But what being agressed should not disable it otherwise you could be held in a pod until downtime (hopefully soon to be a thing of the past) by an ass who goes afk on you for 'a laugh'... No one is able to hold you until DT, if you aren't close to a gate/station, then you can simply log off and disappear in 15 minutes if no one actually kills you. Even this is 100 times better than the 2 minute timer, especially for cap ships. As for other comments about this, of course it's about killmails. Killmails are the receipt for destroying stuff in this game, you should always receive one if you are the cause of someone's ship getting destroyed. Like I said, just generate a killmail, all me and many others would like to get.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.12.28 12:22:00 - [16] Originally by: Lotty Granat Actually his point is to stop people manipulating their killboad stats through the SD mechanism because their opponent isn't bringong WTFPWN DPS. It's a reasonable point.... If this was all it did then yes, there should be a mail generated. Problem is the manipulation of the almighty KB stats (Bow down heathen!) of both aggressor and victim plus it denies the aggressor any loot which can be have a substantial ISK value. There is no change needed other than perhaps a size based timer .. as long as it doesn't allow for sub-par gangs to take down large targets with impunity.
De'Veldrin Minmatar Green-Core The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.12.28 12:56:00 - [17] Edited by: De''Veldrin on 28/12/2010 13:00:34 Originally by: Marlona Sky Aggressors want as much as possible and the defenders want them to have as little as possible. Neither side wants to meet in the middle. You all are too damn stuborn. You sound like this surprised you. That said, I'd be willing to meet you in the middle. Keep the SD mechanic as is, with one change. It generates a kill mail, showing the self destruct as the final blow, and listing anyone involved in the kill as other parties. Said killmail will NOT show the fitting of the ship (because that's another reason to deny you a killmail - lack of intelligence on how the ship was fit). No loot would be dropped per the current SD mechanic. You wanted it dead - it's dead. You wanted proof you helped kill it - you have it. If you want the rest of the pie, bring enough DPS to get the job done properly. --Vel I'm more of a care-badger.
Marlona Sky Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.12.28 13:18:00 - [18] Originally by: De'Veldrin Edited by: De''Veldrin on 28/12/2010 13:00:34 Originally by: Marlona Sky Aggressors want as much as possible and the defenders want them to have as little as possible. Neither side wants to meet in the middle. You all are too damn stuborn. You sound like this surprised you. That said, I'd be willing to meet you in the middle. Keep the SD mechanic as is, with one change. It generates a kill mail, showing the self destruct as the final blow, and listing anyone involved in the kill as other parties. Said killmail will NOT show the fitting of the ship (because that's another reason to deny you a killmail - lack of intelligence on how the ship was fit). No loot would be dropped per the current SD mechanic. You wanted it dead - it's dead. You wanted proof you helped kill it - you have it. If you want the rest of the pie, bring enough DPS to get the job done properly. You need to give something to the guy self destructing though. They already have that and denying the kill mail.
De'Veldrin Minmatar Green-Core The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.12.28 15:58:00 - [19] Originally by: Marlona Sky You need to give something to the guy self destructing though. They already have that and denying the kill mail. I'm a parent. And to paraphrase Bill Cosby: I'm not interested in being fair, I'm interested in reducing the level of ***ing. In all due seriousness - there's nothing to give. The guy committing the self destruct already has the whole pie - no matter how you balance it, he's losing some of that pie to the other team, and he's gonna *** about it. The only thing you could do, at least that I can think of, is make the count down shorter, but I honestly believe two minutes is short enough. Personally, I think the guy committing self destruct should lose his insurance payout too, but that's a whole separate argument. --Vel I'm more of a care-badger.
Jason Travers Space 1999	Posted - 2010.12.28 18:50:00 - [20] Having the self-destruct disable while being aggressed is just plain restarted. What would even be the point of it then? Who in their right mind would go out and decide to self-destruct their ship for the luz. Face the fact that you need to bring more DPS to the fight and be able to kill your target in less than two minutes. Even in the real world the self-destruct is used to deny the enemy the spoils of war. Get over it and bring more to the fight. Mommy that mean ole bear just dukied in my sandbox. :(

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