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Hiroshima Jita	Posted - 2011.01.04 18:36:00 - [1] Make railguns use very little powergrid and cpu. This will let railgun users fit a credible tank and still operate well at sniper ranges. You get a breakdown like this Arty Snipers - Best Alpha, Selectable Damage Types Beam Snipers - Best Tracking, Best DPS Railgun Snipers - Best Range, Hardiest Ships I think there is a niche for being able to fit a full tank and fight at sniper ranges with a mediocre weapon. What are your responses to this?
1600 RT	Posted - 2011.01.04 18:59:00 - [2] most of the ship designed to use rail have already enough fitting to fit weapons + tank and a change like that would nothing for them. some ships are tight on fittings like some of the caldari rail platform but thats a ship issue not a weapon issue
Corporal Punishment08 NosWaffle Nostradamus Effect	Posted - 2011.01.04 19:24:00 - [3] If you're a sniper, that is your tank ;)
Meeko Atari	Posted - 2011.01.04 19:36:00 - [4] How about giving Rails and to an extent Blasters a super high ROF, dependent on Cap and Ammo, When you run out of Ammo you have normal reload times but the high ROF will suck Cap until it reaches a certain level ( lets say 30% ) then the Guns stop firing until the Cap is recharged, boosted or remote cap transferred. The Idea is to make Hybrids very cap and ammo dependent but still give the weapon system an advantage for the draw backs, in this case DPS
1600 RT	Posted - 2011.01.04 19:41:00 - [5] Originally by: Meeko Atari How about giving Rails and to an extent Blasters a super high ROF, dependent on Cap and Ammo, When you run out of Ammo you have normal reload times but the high ROF will suck Cap until it reaches a certain level ( lets say 30% ) then the Guns stop firing until the Cap is recharged, boosted or remote cap transferred. The Idea is to make Hybrids very cap and ammo dependent but still give the weapon system an advantage for the draw backs, in this case DPS yeah because the 40% dps boost its clearly nothing OP
Meeko Atari	Posted - 2011.01.04 19:57:00 - [6] Originally by: 1600 RT Originally by: Meeko Atari How about giving Rails and to an extent Blasters a super high ROF, dependent on Cap and Ammo, When you run out of Ammo you have normal reload times but the high ROF will suck Cap until it reaches a certain level ( lets say 30% ) then the Guns stop firing until the Cap is recharged, boosted or remote cap transferred. The Idea is to make Hybrids very cap and ammo dependent but still give the weapon system an advantage for the draw backs, in this case DPS yeah because the 40% dps boost its clearly nothing OP The Idea is to balance it with heavy cap and ammo use...no cap / ammo... no shooting! And where did you pull the 40% figure out of? your ass?
1600 RT	Posted - 2011.01.04 20:16:00 - [7] Originally by: Meeko Atari Originally by: 1600 RT Originally by: Meeko Atari How about giving Rails and to an extent Blasters a super high ROF, dependent on Cap and Ammo, When you run out of Ammo you have normal reload times but the high ROF will suck Cap until it reaches a certain level ( lets say 30% ) then the Guns stop firing until the Cap is recharged, boosted or remote cap transferred. The Idea is to make Hybrids very cap and ammo dependent but still give the weapon system an advantage for the draw backs, in this case DPS yeah because the 40% dps boost its clearly nothing OP The Idea is to balance it with heavy cap and ammo use...no cap / ammo... no shooting! And where did you pull the 40% figure out of? your ass? with 30% reduction in rof you get an increase of about 40% probably even a bit more but i didnt ran the numbers so im no sure. the cap issue is hardly a problem since we have cap boosters and unless you want to make a blaster hold 5 charges the ammo usage hardly become a balancin factor. with that kind of dps they would just be OP
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.01.04 20:28:00 - [8] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 04/01/2011 20:29:30 I would prefer 15% extra damage, a bit more fittings for hybrid ships, and increasing the optimal bonus for Calamari so that the extra range is actually usable as a damage bonus (or at least to keep damage equity at common ranges!) -Liang Ed: Fitting for all hybrid ships. -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died -
Meeko Atari	Posted - 2011.01.04 20:30:00 - [9] Originally by: 1600 RT Originally by: Meeko Atari Originally by: 1600 RT Originally by: Meeko Atari How about giving Rails and to an extent Blasters a super high ROF, dependent on Cap and Ammo, When you run out of Ammo you have normal reload times but the high ROF will suck Cap until it reaches a certain level ( lets say 30% ) then the Guns stop firing until the Cap is recharged, boosted or remote cap transferred. The Idea is to make Hybrids very cap and ammo dependent but still give the weapon system an advantage for the draw backs, in this case DPS yeah because the 40% dps boost its clearly nothing OP The Idea is to balance it with heavy cap and ammo use...no cap / ammo... no shooting! And where did you pull the 40% figure out of? your ass? with 30% reduction in rof you get an increase of about 40% probably even a bit more but i didnt ran the numbers so im no sure. the cap issue is hardly a problem since we have cap boosters and unless you want to make a blaster hold 5 charges the ammo usage hardly become a balancin factor. with that kind of dps they would just be OP Did you read what I wrote? or did you just see 30%? re-read it again slower this time. Cap issue, that is the point you are either out of ammo or cap boosters or need a logie along to help you out with your cap. With a resource hog ship like that you have a real do or die scenario now. but your right..even if they found a way to balance it, it may be too different to implement. I have always been a fan of the straight tracking bonus to Hybrids though.
Nanferr	Posted - 2011.01.04 20:36:00 - [10] railguns are fine. It doesnt need fixing. -Rail snipers are cheap -Rail snipers have high natural targeting range- -Rail snipers have excellent tank -Rail snipers have excellent tracking at sniping ranges. -Rail snipers have more dps then arty snipers. -Rail snipers are natural shield tankers. The only thing you need to realise, is to stop using gallente failboats to fit rails.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.01.04 23:47:00 - [11] Originally by: Nanferr The only thing you need to realise, is to stop using gallente failboats to fit rails. Should we also stop using Gallente failboats to fit blasters? -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died -
Rastigan Caldari Ars ex Discordia Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.01.04 23:51:00 - [12] Edited by: Rastigan on 04/01/2011 23:51:11 Originally by: Nanferr railguns are fine. It doesnt need fixing. -Rail snipers are cheap -Rail snipers have high natural targeting range- -Rail snipers have excellent tank -Rail snipers have excellent tracking at sniping ranges. -Rail snipers have more dps then arty snipers. -Rail snipers are natural shield tankers. The only thing you need to realise, is to stop using gallente failboats to fit rails. You must be right, as I always see Rokh/Ferox fleets dominating everywhere..
Altaica Amur Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2011.01.05 00:09:00 - [13] Quote: I would prefer 15% extra damage, a bit more fittings for hybrid ships, and increasing the optimal bonus for Calamari so that the extra range is actually usable as a damage bonus (or at least to keep damage equity at common ranges!) -Liang Ed: Fitting for all hybrid ships. Not sure about the optimal bonus really, easier to just level out the vast dps gulf between t1 ranged ammo and t2 ranged ammo to solve that problem. After all Rokhs already push past the lock limit as is. Also an even larger optimal bonus for hybrids will still be pretty weird on blasters without increasing their base range. Personally I think that anywhere up to a 100% increase in blaster range along with a tracking boost would help fix blaster preformance as well as help differentiate a Block from a less damaging Megathron as it would be using blasters with pulse optimals at the low end but falling behind further out.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.01.05 01:03:00 - [14] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 05/01/2011 01:02:42 Originally by: Altaica Amur Not sure about the optimal bonus really, easier to just level out the vast dps gulf between t1 ranged ammo and t2 ranged ammo to solve that problem. After all Rokhs already push past the lock limit as is. I need to mull that over a bit. At a glance, it seems like that'd either help everyone equally (meaning the Rokh is still mostly worthless) or nerf the hell out of everyone else at range. The idea for increasing Caldari optimal is so that Caldari gets pretty equivalent damage and better tracking at the ranges where everyone else is struggling to even hit. Furthermore, I would argue that DPS at 250km is mostly useless... and if you can manage to pull off a Rokh/Raven only fleet... more power to you. Quote: Also an even larger optimal bonus for hybrids will still be pretty weird on blasters without increasing their base range. Personally I think that anywhere up to a 100% increase in blaster range along with a tracking boost would help fix blaster preformance as well as help differentiate a Block from a less damaging Megathron as it would be using blasters with pulse optimals at the low end but falling behind further out. A 100% increase in range and tracking basically turns them into kin/thm pulse lasers with fantastic tracking and crappy range. There still won't be any good reason to use blasters over pulse given the enormous extra range you get from Scorch. I'd argue that the Blokh, specifically, needs a pretty significant blaster damage increase... though this case can easily be made for all other blaster ships. Basically, Hybrids need: - More damage - More fittings on the ships they're supposed to fit on - More damage - Less whale-like ships - More damage - Smaller sig radius ships (yummm...) - More damage - Did I mention more damage? :) -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died -
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2011.01.05 01:14:00 - [15] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 05/01/2011 01:17:19 Originally by: Liang Nuren - More fittings on the ships they're supposed to fit on Fully agree, the medium hybrid platforms are extremely short on grid, a Thorax for example should be able to fit a rack of ions and 1600 plate without fitting mods. It currently cant even do that with a 800 plate. Originally by: Liang Nuren - More damage Now this one is very problematic since blasters and pulses are not the only weapon systems in game, it would have to come at the cost of range which is another can of worms since we dont want to press blaster platforms in an even smaller niche. Personally I think the em resistance nerf was not such a great idea in retrospect.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.01.05 01:21:00 - [16] Originally by: Omara Otawan Fully agree, the medium hybrid platforms are extremely short on grid, a Thorax for example should be able to fit a rack of ions and 1600 plate without fitting mods. It currently cant even do that with a 800 plate. Quote: Now this one is very problematic since blasters and pulses are not the only weapon systems in game, it would have to come at the cost of range which is another can of worms since we dont want to press blaster platforms in an even smaller niche. Fortunately, blasters aren't outperformed by only pulse. They're also outperformed (significantly) by ACs and Torps. Moar. Damage. Plox. Quote: Personally I think the em resistance nerf was not such a great idea in retrospect. I remember all those discussions where people told me that I was crazy for saying EM damage wasn't all that bad. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died -
Lady Skank Ban Evasion inc	Posted - 2011.01.05 01:43:00 - [17] One of the issues that comes up when people discuss a hybrid boost is that many people think increasing damage or range would just make them into Projectiles and Lasers just with a different range so why not actually make them like those other weapons so the challenge would be to keep them unique. Turn Blasters into a low rate of fire high damage Artillery with good damage output and better tracking than they have currently and turn Railguns into medium to long range rapid fire Autocannons with the lowest tracking of all long range guns, sounds crazy but it made me think when I was watching a Blaster Moros firing as the sounds and visual effect seemed to "charge up" before firing and you often see Railguns in sci fi have very rapid rates of fire. Slow firing "Arty" Blasters would make each shot more critical as each miss would be more costly but the higher alpha would give them a battlefield role that would give them a good chance of doing huge damage between any remote or local rep cycles and "Autocannon" Railguns with terrible tracking would mean they would be very difficult to use up close even with tracking mods or webs and prevent them from being a swiss army knife and useful outside of their role but the high RoF would compensate for misses at long range and would give a greater definition between Caldari and Gallente gunboats instead of just the range of the guns. This would give them a unique flavour and give them a role so they wouldn't replace or obsolete other weapons and keeping a weapon systems flavour I think is very important because EVE becoming a grey homogeneous lump would suck.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2011.01.05 01:44:00 - [18] Originally by: Liang Nuren Fortunately, blasters aren't outperformed by only pulse. They're also outperformed (significantly) by ACs and Torps. Moar. Damage. Plox. ACs and blasters on the respective platforms they are mounted on compare pretty well against each other (given fittings are fixed on the respective ships). Now torps is a difficult matter, they have their very own shortfalls that make them pretty difficult to match against turrets. As far as the damage discussion goes, I think splitting up the ammo types like it was done with projectiles is the way to go. Keep it to kin/therm, but offer a kin heavy type and a therm heavy type. Doing 2/2/2/2 split with tracking bonused midranges wouldnt be that bad for rails either. Originally by: Liang Nuren I remember all those discussions where people told me that I was crazy for saying EM damage wasn't all that bad. It definitely was what pushed scorch through the roof in my opinion, now I love the geddon but I wouldnt shed a tear if at least 5% em would be given back.
Headerman Minmatar Metanoia. Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.01.05 01:59:00 - [19] IMHO, rails just need a slight damage increase, blasters need a lil more accuracy
Stuart Price Caldari FLA5HY RED	Posted - 2011.01.05 02:10:00 - [20] Edited by: Stuart Price on 05/01/2011 02:16:32 Been giving this some thought for a while now. Rails: Completely agree with Liang on the optimal bonus increase on Caldari gunboats. The idea of the bonus was to allow Caldari rails to fire higher damage ammo at a range that forces other races to use a lower damage ammo or t2 l-r ammo. At sniper ranges rails should have an element of superiority to compensate for the fact that at closer ranges they get outgunned. Firing AM at long range is one thing against Scorch, but that laser boat gets to switch to MF when stuff gets closer (or for a dedicated close range fit) whereas the rail is already operating at peak and doesn't get better as ranges get lower. Blasters: Significant tracking increase and a large boost to the agility of gallente blasterboats. To use an animal analogy, where the matari ships are cheetah's with their massive speed, the gallente get to be alligators: not all that great over a distance but have you seen how fast they can cover a short distance? That way, blaster ships get really dangerous if you get close to them - one overloaded burst on the MWD if you're headed in the wrong direction and POW - it's a move that Taranis pilots are already familiar with and it works pretty well for them. As for the tracking, I can hear people now: "But that means blasters WTFBBQ'ing smaller class size ships again!". Well, yes. That's the point. If you're in a frig, you really don't want to be 40km from a pulse zealot 'cos you'll die. Get under 10km and get some transversal and he's toast. Well the reverse should be true against blasters. Kite them and you're fine, get in close and he's going to end you. Seems fair to me when you consider that if you're getting outmanoeuvred by a much larger ship to the extent where he can dictate range you SHOULD get toasted. The other balancing factor will always remain: blaster ship HAVE to commit. Once you go in, nobody's leaving until there's a wreck. Kiting ships always have the option to disengage. Reward this dedication to the scrap with face-melting power! Mmmm I also like gallente ships having smaller sigs. A mega has the advantage at about 6km against a 'geddon (assuming it can get there and hasn't taken critical damage on the way...) and I'd like to see that envelope extended. With an agility buff it'll get there faster and with a sig reduction it'll take less return fire when it DOES get there. 'geddon gets to keep Scorch. Putting the 'irate' into 'Pirate'
Tagami Wasp Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2011.01.05 02:30:00 - [21] Blah blah blah. Liang is right. Hybrids lack damage, until their anemic pitiful wet paper towel dps is fixed all discussions on any other of their characteristics are moot. ------------ +15% to railguns' dmg modifier -reduce Spike optimal bonus to 70% +10% to Caldari railboats PG
Grimpak Gallente The Whitehound Corporation Hounds of Anarchy	Posted - 2011.01.05 02:46:00 - [22] Originally by: Stuart Price Blasters: Significant tracking increase and a large boost to the agility of gallente blasterboats. To use an animal analogy, where the matari ships are cheetah's with their massive speed, the gallente get to be alligators: not all that great over a distance but have you seen how fast they can cover a short distance? That way, blaster ships get really dangerous if you get close to them - one overloaded burst on the MWD if you're headed in the wrong direction and POW - it's a move that Taranis pilots are already familiar with and it works pretty well for them. As for the tracking, I can hear people now: "But that means blasters WTFBBQ'ing smaller class size ships again!". Well, yes. That's the point. If you're in a frig, you really don't want to be 40km from a pulse zealot 'cos you'll die. Get under 10km and get some transversal and he's toast. Well the reverse should be true against blasters. Kite them and you're fine, get in close and he's going to end you. Seems fair to me when you consider that if you're getting outmanoeuvred by a much larger ship to the extent where he can dictate range you SHOULD get toasted. The other balancing factor will always remain: blaster ship HAVE to commit. Once you go in, nobody's leaving until there's a wreck. Kiting ships always have the option to disengage. Reward this dedication to the scrap with face-melting power! Mmmm I also like gallente ships having smaller sigs. A mega has the advantage at about 6km against a 'geddon (assuming it can get there and hasn't taken critical damage on the way...) and I'd like to see that envelope extended. With an agility buff it'll get there faster and with a sig reduction it'll take less return fire when it DOES get there. 'geddon gets to keep Scorch. damage increase seems a better option, together with them blasters being a death dispenser machine that work at <10km ranges. this, however, would only work if gallente ships would have better mobility in the battleship, not minmatar levels, but decent. this pretty much means that you really need one to have the other. --- Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals. ain't that right.
AristotleOnassis	Posted - 2011.01.05 03:55:00 - [23] Quote: You must be right, as I always see Rokh/Ferox fleets dominating everywhere. Exactly what people say about the drake 2 years ago
Tore Smith Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2011.01.05 14:15:00 - [24] Edited by: Tore Smith on 05/01/2011 14:16:07 Originally by: Stuart Price Edited by: Stuart Price on 05/01/2011 02:16:32 Been giving this some thought for a while now. Rails: Completely agree with Liang on the optimal bonus increase on Caldari gunboats. The idea of the bonus was to allow Caldari rails to fire higher damage ammo at a range that forces other races to use a lower damage ammo or t2 l-r ammo. At sniper ranges rails should have an element of superiority to compensate for the fact that at closer ranges they get outgunned. Firing AM at long range is one thing against Scorch, but that laser boat gets to switch to MF when stuff gets closer (or for a dedicated close range fit) whereas the rail is already operating at peak and doesn't get better as ranges get lower. Blasters: Significant tracking increase and a large boost to the agility of gallente blasterboats. To use an animal analogy, where the matari ships are cheetah's with their massive speed, the gallente get to be alligators: not all that great over a distance but have you seen how fast they can cover a short distance? That way, blaster ships get really dangerous if you get close to them - one overloaded burst on the MWD if you're headed in the wrong direction and POW - it's a move that Taranis pilots are already familiar with and it works pretty well for them. As for the tracking, I can hear people now: "But that means blasters WTFBBQ'ing smaller class size ships again!". Well, yes. That's the point. If you're in a frig, you really don't want to be 40km from a pulse zealot 'cos you'll die. Get under 10km and get some transversal and he's toast. Well the reverse should be true against blasters. Kite them and you're fine, get in close and he's going to end you. Seems fair to me when you consider that if you're getting outmanoeuvred by a much larger ship to the extent where he can dictate range you SHOULD get toasted. The other balancing factor will always remain: blaster ship HAVE to commit. Once you go in, nobody's leaving until there's a wreck. Kiting ships always have the option to disengage. Reward this dedication to the scrap with face-melting power! Mmmm I also like gallente ships having smaller sigs. A mega has the advantage at about 6km against a 'geddon (assuming it can get there and hasn't taken critical damage on the way...) and I'd like to see that envelope extended. With an agility buff it'll get there faster and with a sig reduction it'll take less return fire when it DOES get there. 'geddon gets to keep Scorch. my opinion exactly! more damage and tracking for hybrids plus more agility for gal boats while keeping their not so stellar top speed. mini are still speed kings. amarr still have best overall range. and caldari, well i don't really see, how you can make blasters work for them. edit: typo
Ogogov Gallente Test Alliance Please Ignore	Posted - 2011.01.05 16:42:00 - [25] Originally by: Tore Smith Edited by: Tore Smith on 05/01/2011 14:16:07 Originally by: Stuart Price Edited by: Stuart Price on 05/01/2011 02:16:32 Been giving this some thought for a while now. Rails: Completely agree with Liang on the optimal bonus increase on Caldari gunboats. The idea of the bonus was to allow Caldari rails to fire higher damage ammo at a range that forces other races to use a lower damage ammo or t2 l-r ammo. At sniper ranges rails should have an element of superiority to compensate for the fact that at closer ranges they get outgunned. Firing AM at long range is one thing against Scorch, but that laser boat gets to switch to MF when stuff gets closer (or for a dedicated close range fit) whereas the rail is already operating at peak and doesn't get better as ranges get lower. Blasters: Significant tracking increase and a large boost to the agility of gallente blasterboats. To use an animal analogy, where the matari ships are cheetah's with their massive speed, the gallente get to be alligators: not all that great over a distance but have you seen how fast they can cover a short distance? That way, blaster ships get really dangerous if you get close to them - one overloaded burst on the MWD if you're headed in the wrong direction and POW - it's a move that Taranis pilots are already familiar with and it works pretty well for them. As for the tracking, I can hear people now: "But that means blasters WTFBBQ'ing smaller class size ships again!". Well, yes. That's the point. If you're in a frig, you really don't want to be 40km from a pulse zealot 'cos you'll die. Get under 10km and get some transversal and he's toast. Well the reverse should be true against blasters. Kite them and you're fine, get in close and he's going to end you. Seems fair to me when you consider that if you're getting outmanoeuvred by a much larger ship to the extent where he can dictate range you SHOULD get toasted. The other balancing factor will always remain: blaster ship HAVE to commit. Once you go in, nobody's leaving until there's a wreck. Kiting ships always have the option to disengage. Reward this dedication to the scrap with face-melting power! Mmmm I also like gallente ships having smaller sigs. A mega has the advantage at about 6km against a 'geddon (assuming it can get there and hasn't taken critical damage on the way...) and I'd like to see that envelope extended. With an agility buff it'll get there faster and with a sig reduction it'll take less return fire when it DOES get there. 'geddon gets to keep Scorch. my opinion exactly! more damage and tracking for hybrids plus more agility for gal boats while keeping their not so stellar top speed. mini are still speed kings. amarr still have best overall range. and caldari, well i don't really see, how you can make blasters work for them. edit: typo Do want. Also I want a slidey power control bar for rails so I can dump my whole cap into one ridiculously overpowered shot or set it to zero cap for paint-chipping/sandblaster mode.
Altaica Amur Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2011.01.05 19:48:00 - [26] Quote: I need to mull that over a bit. At a glance, it seems like that'd either help everyone equally (meaning the Rokh is still mostly worthless) or nerf the hell out of everyone else at range. The idea for increasing Caldari optimal is so that Caldari gets pretty equivalent damage and better tracking at the ranges where everyone else is struggling to even hit. Furthermore, I would argue that DPS at 250km is mostly useless... and if you can manage to pull off a Rokh/Raven only fleet... more power to you. As an example if you gave spike/aurora/tremor a bit more damage then the longest range t1 ammo ( equivalent to tungsten or maybe iridium in hybrids ) and take the range bonus down to say 70%. With this it's easier for a range bonused ship to push higher damaging t1 ammo to the same ranges as t2 to balance out the lack of damage bonus. Indeed if you look at the range bonus on spike compared to the t1 ammo that does the same damage ( lead ) you can see the 50% range bonus gets swallowed whole by the 80% range bonus difference between the two. Taking the damage down to Iridium and the range bonus down to 70% levels this out so that a Rokh can use Iridium in the same way a mega can use spike, a step in the right direction at least. Pushing the t2 ammo damage to the level of tungsten or iron you start to bring the Rokh to damage parity with the megathron using spike. This change wouldn't necessarily make the Rokh awesome and would have a fair chance of annoying all the other snipers out there but it would make the much-vaunted 'range-bonus is a damage bonus' a reality. Quote: A 100% increase in range and tracking basically turns them into kin/thm pulse lasers with fantastic tracking and crappy range. There still won't be any good reason to use blasters over pulse given the enormous extra range you get from Scorch. I'd argue that the Blokh, specifically, needs a pretty significant blaster damage increase... though this case can easily be made for all other blaster ships. All true but it's the only way I can think of making the Blokh distinct from other blaster ships, perhaps making the range bonus apply to falloff as well? Either way I think that while fixed blasters ( more damage/tracking or what have you ) will improve the Blokh it will retain it's inferiority to the gallente blaster boats due to the uselessness of an optimal bonus for a weapon that reaches 4.5km. Quote: Turn Blasters into a low rate of fire high damage Artillery with good damage output and better tracking than they have currently and turn Railguns into medium to long range rapid fire Autocannons with the lowest tracking of all long range guns, sounds crazy but it made me think when I was watching a Blaster Moros firing as the sounds and visual effect seemed to "charge up" before firing and you often see Railguns in sci fi have very rapid rates of fire. I'd actually like to see rails become very high RoF low alpha ships and would be content with the tracking nerf -if- they also become the highest damage at snipe range. However I suspect that would just invite a lot of laser whine even though their weapon system is well set up to provide coverage for a broad array of ranges with quick changing ammo that isn't consumed. I think half the trouble with balancing hybrids is that you have to balance them to be effective with a damage bonused ship as well as a range bonused ship on weapon systems that have played towards the extremes in range.
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.01.05 20:31:00 - [27] Originally by: Altaica Amur This change wouldn't necessarily make the Rokh awesome and would have a fair chance of annoying all the other snipers out there but it would make the much-vaunted 'range-bonus is a damage bonus' a reality. Yeah, I'm pretty -1 to nerfing everyone so that the Rokh has a role. Quote: All true but it's the only way I can think of making the Blokh distinct from other blaster ships, perhaps making the range bonus apply to falloff as well? Either way I think that while fixed blasters ( more damage/tracking or what have you ) will improve the Blokh it will retain it's inferiority to the gallente blaster boats due to the uselessness of an optimal bonus for a weapon that reaches 4.5km. It sounds to me like you're dramatically underestimating how powerful that optimal bonus could be if blasters had reasonable damage. It doesn't just affect antimatter - but also Null. The Rokh would have very reasonable range and high DPS. Honestly, I'm worried that increasing the optimal bonus and blaster base damage would make the Rokh dramatically overpowered. -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died -
Tagami Wasp Caldari Sarz'na Khumatari Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2011.01.05 20:37:00 - [28] Originally by: Liang Nuren Honestly, I'm worried that increasing the optimal bonus and blaster base damage would make the Rokh dramatically overpowered. -Liang I agree. Remember that old thread a year back about rails getting a 15% damage increase? After going through all the Blaster threads, I think that the same increase is needed there too. Maybe a 15% damage increase to all Hybrid ammo and range/tracking restructuring as per projectiles is the answer? ------------ +15% to railguns' dmg modifier -reduce Spike optimal bonus to 70% +10% to Caldari railboats PG
Liang Nuren	Posted - 2011.01.05 20:43:00 - [29] Originally by: Tagami Wasp I agree. Remember that old thread a year back about rails getting a 15% damage increase? After going through all the Blaster threads, I think that the same increase is needed there too. Maybe a 15% damage increase to all Hybrid ammo and range/tracking restructuring as per projectiles is the answer? Yeah, I think that's definitely one answer. I think I'd like to see some something different than the projectile range/tracking thing, just for the sake of variety though. /shrug -Liang -- Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire On Twitter - Blog got deleted when Evepress died -
Altaica Amur Pan Galactic Gargle Blasters Important Internet Spaceship League	Posted - 2011.01.06 00:12:00 - [30] Quote: Yeah, I'm pretty -1 to nerfing everyone so that the Rokh has a role. Understandable and not something I even disagree with that much. Quote: It sounds to me like you're dramatically underestimating how powerful that optimal bonus could be if blasters had reasonable damage. It doesn't just affect antimatter - but also Null. The Rokh would have very reasonable range and high DPS. Honestly, I'm worried that increasing the optimal bonus and blaster base damage would make the Rokh dramatically overpowered. Could be but in my experience the difference between an optimal of 17km and an optimal of 11km isn't all that much for one of the slowest battleships in the game. Just as the difference between 4.5 and 6.8km isn't all that much. Contrarily 9km and 13.5km does cross over a more significant threshold and the difference between 22km and 33km, well that's just huge! I'm just not convinced that the current range gaps add up to any tactically exploitable advantage.

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