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Epitoth
Amarr
Aerarium Militare Praetoria
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Posted - 2011.01.12 18:17:00 -
[31]
Like them or not Ushra'Khan is one of the most proactive anti-slavery organisations around. Since I already knew exactly what the Amarr Paramilitaries would say on the matter, giving U'K a chance to voice their opinion when starting a fresh new corp seemed like a progressive approach. Certainly it's not a mistake I'll be making again.
But please let's not distract from the original discussion here.
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Maximum Kiely
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.12 18:33:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Mizhara Del'thul
CONCORD needs reformations. Merely upholding the status quo was admirable enough once upon a time. Now? Not so much. CONCORD has outlived it's purpose and needs to adapt to a new reality. A new New Eden.
I agree Ms. Del'thul, one needs to be leery of control in the guise of protection. It never hurts to flash some light into the darkness of authority.
Based out of The Citadel - Contact Maximum Kiely |
Kazzzi
Amarr
Heathen Legion
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.01.12 20:24:00 -
[33]
Ugleb does have quite a great deal on his plate atm, Epitoth, As head diplomat of Ushra'Khan, feel free to contact me. I'm usually willing to at least listen to proposals despite any of my skepticism. |
Ugleb
Minmatar
Sarz'na Khumatari
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.01.12 22:10:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Epitoth
Originally by: foksieloy
I for one know that Ugleb is more than willing to discuss and find a peaceful solution to problems. He just tends to be fired on by the Amarr when they cannot disrepute his words.
Actually I mailed Ugleb recently when deciding what to do with my corps slaves. All I got in response was threats from U'K allies and my mails ignored.
I suspect the only thing Ugleb wants is to cause trouble and peace is the bottom of his list of priorities.
This would be the mail you sent two weeks ago I believe? Frankly I had been intending to revisit it, but had little time too look into it then.
When I first read it honestly was not sure what response you were looking for. I certainly did not realise that the fact of a group of slaves was depending on my quick response. Had that been clear to me at the time then I would have treated it as a more urghent issue rather than as an invitation to ideological debate.
I am curious that you hold 'threats' from our allies as connected, I'm not aware of us discussing that message with any of them.
Regardless, I fail to see how my failure to respond to a message promptly in any way invalidates these protests against CONCORD. Not one shot has been fired in anger, the protest to date has been entirely peaceful. We call for reform, not demand it at gunpoint.
The Journal; Walking The Road To Liberation |
Reltori Bathel
Trust Doesn't Rust
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2011.01.14 16:59:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Julius Avitus
Freed slaves waste their lives in camps. What good is this "freedom", when you cannot afford to leave a slum? I do not deny that there are excesses and brutality in the Empire, but at least here, the slaves can be certain that they have something to eat tomorrow.
It is the ethics of slavery that we are saying are wrong here. If the Matari within the Empire were employed rather than enslaved all would be well. Individuals and Communities should have the right to choose their homes and livelihoods. In other words, Ushra'Khan does not advocate a racially homogeneous selection of communities throughout the galaxy. Evidence of this is apparent within our corporations.
In my eyes we are stating that CONCORD, whose mandate is security and protection of civil liberties, is not upholding those responsibilities by so blatantly taking a side in what is, at the heart of it, an ethical confrontation.
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Ava Starfire
Minmatar
Gradient
Electus Matari
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Posted - 2011.01.14 19:06:00 -
[36]
Occupy Pator within a week?
I think you give yourselves far too much credit. You fight for a religious ideal you all know is false, in the name of your zombie ***** empress; we fight for our right to exist. Which one is a more powerful motivator, do you think?
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Syn Callibri
Minmatar
21st Eridani Lighthorse
Broken Chains Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.14 19:14:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Ava Starfire
Occupy Pator within a week?
I think you give yourselves far too much credit. You fight for a religious ideal you all know is false, in the name of your zombie ***** empress; we fight for our right to exist. Which one is a more powerful motivator, do you think?
...and I would hope they understand that there is nothing more dangerous than a warrior defending thier home territory.
[21EL] Commander Tac-Ops / [21EL] I.S.C. |
Zanziba'ar
Minmatar
Show No Mercy
P R I M E
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Posted - 2011.01.19 12:17:00 -
[38]
I may not be one of them but my Inspiration is the Ushra'Khan and the old Ambassador Keitan Yun. His speech at concord is truly inspiring and I only wish I was there to see it. Concord is a phony corrupted organisation and I say down with it and Up with the republic!
For the Minmatar Republic and her people
"I am the Alpha and the Omega--the beginning and the end," "I am the one who is, who always was, and who is still to come--the Almighty One." " I am Zanziba'ar." |
Julius Avitus
Amarr
Ordo Comitum Augusti
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Posted - 2011.01.19 13:48:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Reltori Bathel
(About ethics of slavery and CONCORD's ethics.)
Depending on the interpretation, slaves indeed are employed, but just without the right to terminate their contract. I understand that you are not free to get anything you want in the so-called "free economies", but it is restricted by what is available. In consumer trade, the seller usually sets the prices when you get out of the few places where supply is greater than demand, so this little thing called wage comes into account. Similarly for apartments or any other product and service. In colonies, of course, you have to take what the colony administration offers you. I would say that in many fringe colonies - even in the Federation, the Minmatar paradise of freedom - the situation is indeed a lot more worse than in the Empire.
Talking about the Empire, we do place greater emphasis on the well-being than material wealth, and in well-behaving, well-managed and legal slave communities the life is not very different from commoner life. While getting the most of their reward as accommodation and food, many do also get some sort of wage, as it is very troublesome to run a bureaucracy to take care of the every need of the whole population. Of course there is a wide spectrum of environments, from slaves having a criminal or violent history to royal scribes. Running everything in prisoner colony style - like the situation is apparently presented in some extremist propaganda - would be very wasteful. As the "freedom of choice" doesn't offer much more than what would be available in the Empire, I have to return to my original point and remind that you cannot eat ethics. Not even Minmatar ethics, no matter how resourceful you are. (Ethics are not absolute.)
For the values of Ushra'Khan, I cannot help to notice that your friends the late Defiants did not show any kind of equality between races. The Bloody Hands fail to show any of that. Unless you count that they are equally ready to kill anyone who doesn't agree with them, even when they prefer killing Amarr commoners. Look at your old foe, the Curatores Veritatis: they also do have all the races fighting under their banner. However, talking about capsuleers is meaningless, for most capsuleers are more removed from the common folk than even the haughtiest of Holders from the lowest heavy working slave.
As far as I can see - and as it is mostly presented in the Empire in those rare snippets where the blood-drenched hand appears in the news - is that the Minmatar extremist movement is simply out to kill as many as they can. I have yet to hear about a "freedom fighter" raid where significantly more slaves had been captured than killed. In short, the only function of the raids is to support the hard-liners and conservatives in the Empire. "Freedom or death"? Omit "freedom". It is the ethics of death and only death.
On CONCORD: behind all the nice fluff, CONCORD's task is to watch capsuleers. As a part of that, they regulate interstellar trade, since a lot of the trade is actually done by us. Their secondary role is to maintain a facade of interstellar peace. Civil liberties have no role in this. If they would, first it would need to be decided whose civil liberties it is. I'd like to remind you that no empire is an absolute best on the standard of living, and it depends a lot on the emphasis. To name one, any legally held slave is a lot better off than a lot of people that are unemployed or even persecuted in the Republic.
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Shpenat
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Posted - 2011.01.19 14:55:00 -
[40]
What are you trying to achieve? CONCORD attacking Amarr empire? CONCORD leaving Amarr empire throwing it into state of chaos?
CONCORD has no political power. It cant meddle with empires inner affairs.
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