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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Shinshi Casoyako
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Posted - 2005.01.22 12:17:00 -
[31]
Something that would really help is a different way of doing the auction all together. Ether remove closed threads (makes searching easier) or do something like this:
www.eve-auctions.com (I think it was)
That would make things even better
Seriously Have I Not Said How I Can Assist Some One You Are Killing Online? |
Jazzatola
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Posted - 2005.01.22 12:22:00 -
[32]
Personally I don't like bumping.
Having said that, I have indulged in a spot of stealth bumping for my auction during the past day. As others have said, using the market forums as an impromptu auction site almost makes bumping a necessity if your post is to reach its audience.
I say ban bumping but introduce a new out of game auction facility. |
Lena Serin
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Posted - 2005.01.22 12:36:00 -
[33]
I'd like more sell forums if bumping isn't allowed. Probably half of the auctions is for commander/officer loot, give it a special forum, and another one as well for ships.
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Larno
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Posted - 2005.01.22 14:06:00 -
[34]
Bumping should be allowed imo on the market forums.
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Kaar
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Posted - 2005.01.22 14:39:00 -
[35]
If Bumping is not allowed, Then i suggest Splitting up the sell forums into categories.
Example an account sell forum, A ship sell forum,A Guns or items...you get the idea.
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Vvari
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Posted - 2005.01.22 15:06:00 -
[36]
How about ingame auctions? people would be able to browse all auctions going on and can buy ingame. think it has been mentioned before buy eve-bay ingame sounds like a good solution. Just as an adition to the escrow and market put in auction options.
auctions could be sorted by name, ending date and by views and interest. mabey even make a search option.
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new sig under construction |
Hellspawn01
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Posted - 2005.01.22 15:39:00 -
[37]
 Originally by: Kaar
If Bumping is not allowed, Then i suggest Splitting up the sell forums into categories.
Example an account sell forum, A ship sell forum,A Guns or items...you get the idea.
I 2nd that.
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Eve is not game, it¦s a way of life! |
Woetra
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Posted - 2005.01.22 15:44:00 -
[38]
People will just post comments with an alt, or give other info, maybe even bid on their own threads to bump it.
I would suggest we allow bumpage but promote informational posts rather than the word 'bump'
Sig Thief
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Braaage
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Posted - 2005.01.22 17:28:00 -
[39]
For the selling market forum I would suggest all active auctions are stickied or flagged (something similar to a locked icon) as current until the item(s) have been sold where it is unstickied or unflagged.
The problem with that auction forum is that it doesn't show enough posts per page and active auctions sometimes end up 5-6 pages back which is why u get so much bumping.
By flagging or stickying auctions players can see all the current auctions that are still on the go even if it does go back several pages.
This creates 2 problems though....... one is that a mod will have to watch over it practically all day everyday (which u prolly do anyway) and secondly only mods have the ability to stick or unsticky a thread.
The second option above can be solved by giving the post creator the ability to sticky and unsticky his/her own thread (or flag/unflag). Obviously you might think this is a dangerous thing to do but I don't. If someone takes advantage of this feature you can simply ban them from the forums.
Alternatively just leave it as is and let people bump there own threads.
___________________________________________
http://www.eve-tutor.com
Picture based tutorial site for EVE-Online |
Dian Cecht
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Posted - 2005.01.22 17:28:00 -
[40]
I can neither confirm nor deny the fact that I was warned about bumping....
However, this does highlight the fact that the sell forums are not the correct tool for the job. There are sites that provide this function, but they do not get the same traffic that the Eve site does. Maybe if CCP looked at making some of these sites offical, it might be better than complaining about bumping.
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Xamand
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Posted - 2005.01.22 17:32:00 -
[41]
Firstly, I would agree that a limited amount of bumping is needed on a sales forum as trawling through 10 pages is a time consuming nightmare.
However, I don't believe it is the solution to the problem the sales forum has, and that is that it moves far too fast.
Currently, you have to go back to the 8th page of this forum to find a post more than 24hrs old! If everyone bumps their threads once per day, you are still going to be faced with exactly the same problem, just with a load of extra posts.
And you still have to trawl through pages of items you aren't interested in to find what you are looking for :(
Personally, I think a better solution would be to follow the changes that happened to the in game trade channel, and that was to split it up into different categoris.
Then, if you are looking for a blueprint, you goto the blueprint forum and search through a couple of pages, or for a named module, goto that forum.
With threads falling down the page order slower sellers will be less inclined to bump and buyers will be able to find stuff alot quicker (and in many cases will actually find stuff they would otherwise have missed due to not wanting to search past the first 10 pages)
Xamand
CEO
Cirrius Technologies |
Flammius
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Posted - 2005.01.22 18:03:00 -
[42]
*bump*
Oh, nm sticky already...
One or two bumps a day don't bother me, more than that and it might be a bit annoying. I agree that splitting the sell forum into (at least) one for modules and one for BPs might be a good thing tho (if a search function is to much to ask for).
_________________________
Scientist, manufacturer, trader
Selling
Co-processor II, Tachyon Beam Laser II, Modulated Strip Miner II
Buying
Tech 2 BPOs (check my bio ingame) |
Geofferic Sidharttha
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Posted - 2005.01.22 18:36:00 -
[43]
Wouldn't bumping be moot with a search feature?
IE, the bumps are to make sure people know about the auction or sale, but if people had the ability to search all the sales/auctions for what they were looking for, wouldn't the need to be 'seen' be much lower?
For this to work, completed sales and auctions would need to be swept up regularly.
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No pleasure, no rapture, no exquisite sin greater than central air. - Azrael, Dogma |
Shadar Ishaan
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Posted - 2005.01.22 18:56:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Shadar Ishaan on 22/01/2005 18:57:00
Here's the problem:
You have a forum software that doesn't allow searching, that doesn't allow you to modify threads per page, that doesn't (so far as I know) let you view only new posts since your last visit. Most other forums have these features.
I asked a simple question (which of course, was deleted) in the sell forum: How are we supposed to sell anything when there is such a level of activity in that forum that your thread can literally be on the 7th or 8th page in a matter of 4 or 5 hours? Not many are going to dig through that many pages. The only other option is to start a new thread periodically to try to hawk your product, and then that can create an even bigger problem.
Primarily, it can be viewed as spamming. You'll be told to keep it to 1 thread (which of course is by this time 20 pages back and you'll never be able to bump it without reprimand).
Secondly, if people actually do find your other threads, it could be confusing. Do you have 3 shield boosters for sale, or 3 threads about the same booster? How do you reconcile if people start bidding in seperate threads for the same thing?
Bumping in a sales forum/buy forum is not a crime. It's not even a hazard to the 'community'. People are only going to bump their thread until their item is sold or the auction is complete, or they give up.
The thing about this that is most disturbing is simply this: You guys are taking an issue of bumping threads overly seriously. It's a game. You guys are the mods, make a judgement call. There is a difference between reasonable bumping and overbumping. This issue is not going to be black and white, right or wrong.
You've been given the responsibility to manage the threads, use your judgement wisely and this won't be an issue.
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Item Trading Post
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theos phobou
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Posted - 2005.01.22 19:03:00 -
[45]
imo, bumps are a necessary evil in sell forums. excessive bumping can be bad. possible solutions:
A) add more sell forums by topic.
B) show more posts per page.
C) add a search feature.
D) add an auction system (who cares if its for the igb or not - the igb is not designed for that.)
i would like to suggest one more:
E) add a post expiration.
what i mean is: any post in sell forum will 'disappear' in N days. that way, there will only ever be a few pages worth of posts... and you don't have to go to page 12 to find an active sell order hidden among rubbish. something along this line would be helpful but you might have to work at it to make it perfect, e.g. perhaps allow replying to a particular post for up to 5 days, but it won't disappear until the 7th day. this will also put an end to the uber-long-never-ending-mega-bpc-14-page-long posts, and it will discourage auctions that last for 20 days.
theos phobou
ceo, dark templars
http://www.thereverend.org/eve/
(yeah i know)
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theos phobou
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Posted - 2005.01.22 19:07:00 -
[46]
perhaps a combination of A B and E above would be easy to implement and sufficient to enforce a no-bumping rule.
theos phobou
ceo, dark templars
http://www.thereverend.org/eve/
(yeah i know)
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SweatySack
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Posted - 2005.01.22 20:18:00 -
[47]
I think for an auction lasting a few days that bumping of once per 24 hours is fine. After I got hit for excessive bumping my auction has pretty much stayed on page 8 or 9.
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DB Preacher
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Posted - 2005.01.22 20:52:00 -
[48]
Bumping is essential and the way auctions go, i don't think there is a problem at all.
I bet those complaining are those who want to try and pick up goods on the cheap.
dbp
Current RKK Ranking: (CAL4) Soldier
Drop by and say hi in Reikoku Forums.
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w0rmy
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Posted - 2005.01.22 21:40:00 -
[49]
Bumping to Keep an active thread active, all good.
Bumping dead threads, or for the sake of bumping, all bad.
Recruitment threads, auction threads, stuff like that, needs to be bumped, as long as its say, once a day and not every five minutes.
Otherwise, their only option to keep a topic active and current, is to start a new identical one every day
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Dav Varan
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Posted - 2005.01.22 21:53:00 -
[50]
The Main Problem of Bumping is caused by there not being enough Catagories under auctions
If there were more catagories E.g. Shield Mods , Missile Mods , Guns , Bpo's/Bpc's Etc.
then peoples posts would not drop so fast and therefore would not require bumping , plus buyers/bidders would not have to trawl through pages of offers there not interested in .
As far as bumps go in the current situation, maybe a daily bump should be allowed as a kind of readvertising of ones wares, more than that is just spammage really 
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Shadar Ishaan
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Posted - 2005.01.22 23:00:00 -
[51]
If everyone bumps daily, the threads will only reorganize themselves somewhat, but someone will still be 5 pages back.
Splitting into subforums would be nice, but I doubt this software supports it.
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Item Trading Post
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Mal Adicta
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Posted - 2005.01.23 01:21:00 -
[52]
Without the occasional bump of some form or another, it will be very hard to auction anything.
Splitting the forum into
Ships
Blueprints
Modules (maybe into Armoury, Propulsion, Defence & Misc)
Offices & labs
Implants & Tags (that seems to be the new flavour of auctions)
General Sales
Would help a lot, but it will still need a bump once maybe twice a day.
(just my tupence worth)
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Uuve Savisaalo
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Posted - 2005.01.23 04:48:00 -
[53]
This was going to come up at one time or another, and as a frequent user -- both in the selling and the buying department -- of these forums as well as ebay and similar auction sites over the years (no, not for eve-related things, but e-commerce in general) I decided to contribute.
In general, the 'sell orders' forum has become the highest strata of eve economy. This is where the bulk of your 50million+ modules are sold. Perhaps this was not the original intention of the forum administration, but the forum is now of great economic importance.
Lets get some things out of the way first -- the sellers will always campaign for bumping because having your auction on top drives your sales up. In general you can tell apart the real gems by the interest they generate and they're all on the first page.
The buyers will always be against this, because auctions are also something you can make astounding profit upon mis-listed, under-listed, over-looked items.
Personally, I believe that bumping should be either outright forbidden or discouraged because under-selling is a part of auctioning. The advantage of selling here consists of not setting a defined price and some auctions for individual modules going over a billion. The downside, of course, is that you may undersell. When the order of naturally-generated interest showing up on the first page of the auctions is broken by a bunch of people who are sitting there and 'bumping' their own things up.
My advice -- t20. appropriate some web auction script into these things. Set some default rules like bid shelling (character who bid up their own items with alts to drive sales) etc.. etc..
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StarSupport
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Posted - 2005.01.23 06:40:00 -
[54]
Warning: RADICAL suggestion....
 Divide into 3 different Auction Forums: 1 day, 3 day, 1 week, plus a pure SELL forum.
1 day auction: Free usage, NO bump.
3 day auction: Costs 250.000 isk. 1 bump/day (date check)
7 day auction: Costs.... 10.000.000 isk. 1 bump/day (date check)
IMO there's too many of those auctions lasting one week or so. Actually - there's too many auctions of any kind 
There IS stuff that is hard to put a price on - true - but... When the last 10 sales of xxxx module went for 35-40 mill isk, its not too hard to put an sell order for it, and at same time make an open escrow for it.
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KingsGambit
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Posted - 2005.01.23 08:55:00 -
[55]
Bumping is fine if it is within reason and not excessive. As long as a thread is relevant (in the case of the market forums, an active buy/sell order) then an infrequent bump is not inappropriate. That would require some judgement from the part of the moderators, which however can vary between reasonable to unreasonable.
I say, make a seperate forum for all those never-ending auctions, so that it is easier to see what's for sale and ignore the rest, and let people bump in that forum to their hearts content...the only good thing about the endless auctions, is that they eventually end, and don't last too long, so thus are only valid for a short time in which bumping would be acceptable.
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BYOC Crow Interceptor Deals |
MaiLina KaTar
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Posted - 2005.01.23 12:09:00 -
[56]
Wrangler:
Excuse me if I sound like a jerk but I need to play "papa mod" right now There are two reasonable ways for you to handle this:
1)
Slap t20 with the largest trout you can find  If he would add some code that allows people to define how many threads they want to see on each forum page, bumping wouldn't be necessary in the first place. You would just be able to set the forum to display some 50 or 60 threads per page, which would eliminate the problem of threads landing on page 2 the instant they've been posted.
There are so many people posting to this forum that it usually doesn't take more than an hour or so before a new thread goes to page 2... and this is *not* what you want when you're trying to sell stuff. Hence the bumping.
2)
Allow bumping on a reasonable level. A bump per day in an auction that lasts a day or two harms nobody and it keeps people from re-auctioning/re-posting stuff.
Going by the default rules would suck in market sell/buy forums. There's no search feature either... and you know that people rarely look at page 2 and following unless they need something really bad. Consequently forbidding bumping in here would basically make this forum a waste of time for anyone trying to effectively sell/auction items.
Mai's Idealog |
Peko
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Posted - 2005.01.23 15:20:00 -
[57]
i duno where the forums moderators got the idea of stopping bumps from but its certainly not from the ppl thats posted on this thread -
not to be nasty or disrespectful - i mean that to - but is this just to keep u forum guys occupied from bordom? ur guna havta go through alot of threads to stop bumping and is it really worth it?
from ur thread it doesnt look that way. think a guy that posted ealier had the right idea - different catagories for the selling thread's - and perhaps some features adopted from other forum pages.
No disrespect intended.
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Dianabolic
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Posted - 2005.01.23 16:41:00 -
[58]
Sorry if this has already been covered:
Wrangler - I agree that bumping is a problem. However, unless you provide the community with a SEARCH function you are essentially asking each and every one of us to read each and every thread to filter out what we want to buy.
We've been asking for it for nearly 2 years now, using google doesn't cut the most recent threads, please please please implement one asap.
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Danton Marcellus
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Posted - 2005.01.23 18:04:00 -
[59]
I heard somewhere that you could bump your thread by posting and deleting your post, the bump is still there you just keep it neat and tidy and don't clutter the sales list.
Forcing people to post extensive lists every day takes them away from the actual gaming.
Cut the red tape and allow say 5 bumps a day, this should be traceable I'm sure, excess bumping and your market privys are void for a week.
Convert Stations
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CactusSoul
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Posted - 2005.01.23 18:18:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Wrangler
Yea, I don't make the forums, I moderate them. 
Ofc you do, you're a moderator. And I'd say you do it well too, since you caught up on this issue.
But with an apparent risk for being rude - you asked for our take on it, and a properly designed forum wouldn't have this issue.
So kick the problem upwards to your superiors and explain that this is what must be done. Problem solved.
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