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Grimpak	Posted - 2005.01.24 17:10:00 - [31] Originally by: DaddyS Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Vicker Lahn'se You people are having trouble because you're using it wrong. Why on earth do you put artillery on your frigates? The only use I can see for small artillery is if frigates are the only ships you can fly. I use tech2 200mm autocannons. 200mm autocannons operate at a closer range and have higher DOT than artillery. Combine this with a tech2 1MN afterburner and orbit at 2500m. Hardly anybody can hit a frigate moving this close and this fast. Personally, I'm a bigger fan of the Wolf, but the Jaguar would be better if you want the capabilities to tackle. For med slots on a Jaguar I would recommend: tech2 1MN afterburner, a small shield booster, and a warp inhibitor. Low slots, have a party, do what you want. Personally, tech2 gyrostabilizers turn me on. Some of you guys might prefer armor hardeners, though. erm... jags are made for artys... look at the bonuses... Minmatar Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% Small Projectile damage bonus, 15% EM and 10% Thermal resistance bonus to Shield and Armor per level Assault Ships Skill Bonus: 10% Small Projectile Turret optimal range and 5% Tracking Speed per le The bonuses are for small projectile turrets. So they work for artillery and autocannons. DaddyS yeah but with those bonuses I would use artys, not AC's. ------------------- Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
fisty	Posted - 2005.01.24 20:52:00 - [32] my jaguar setup to kill not for tackle 3x280mm t2 1x arbalest rocket launcher 1xgistii ab 1xkinetic hardener"not the active one the that u fit and gives a steady resistance and dosent use cap", 1xgistii shield booster 3xt2 power diags 625shields lowest resistance is kinetic with 59.5 all the others are higher run everything nonstop with np as its gistii loot:D hope yu enjoy
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.01.24 21:21:00 - [33] Originally by: fisty my jaguar setup to kill not for tackle 3x280mm t2 1x arbalest rocket launcher 1xgistii ab 1xkinetic hardener"not the active one the that u fit and gives a steady resistance and dosent use cap", 1xgistii shield booster 3xt2 power diags 625shields lowest resistance is kinetic with 59.5 all the others are higher run everything nonstop with np as its gistii loot:D hope yu enjoy gah... gistii stuff... emote wants btw, swapping a PDUII by a T2 tracking mod would be nice too ------------------- Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
Redginald	Posted - 2005.01.25 03:19:00 - [34] This guy wasn't so lucky either. He followed me into the system...bad move Victim: Juan Alvarez Corporation: JUAREZ CARTELL Destroyed Type: Wolf Solar System: B-VIP9 System Security Level: 0.0 Involved parties: Name: Redginald (laid the final blow) Security Status: 0.6 Corporation: M. Corp Ship Type: Rupture Weapon Type: 425mm Medium Carbine Repeating Cannon I Destroyed items: Type: Piranha Light Missile I (Cargo) Quantity: 228 Type: Sabretooth Light Missile I (Fitted - High slot) Quantity: 29 Type: 280mm 'Scout' Artillery I (Fitted - High slot) Type: 280mm 'Scout' Artillery I (Fitted - High slot) Type: 280mm 'Scout' Artillery I (Fitted - High slot) Type: Small Capacitor Booster I (Fitted - Medium slot) Type: Small Shield Booster II (Fitted - Medium slot) Type: Small Armor Repairer I (Fitted - Low slot) Type: Sabretooth Light Missile I (Cargo) Quantity: 11 Type: Phased plasma S (Fitted - High slot) Quantity: 9 Type: EMP S (Fitted - High slot) Quantity: 7 Type: EMP S (Cargo) Quantity: 2058 As for a Jaguar I just got one 2 days ago. I've tried a few different setups, some with 250's and some with 200mm's. I like them both but I think I prefer the 200mm's over the arties. Highs 3x200mm autocannons standard launcher (I carry both missiles and defenders) Meds MWD Webber Scrambler Lows 2xCap Power Relays Small t2 Armor Repper I had the same setup with an AB and 250's, fought another Jag with t2 280's. He would have beat me if I didn't warp out. He took my shields down and then into armor, He stripped my armor pretty quick and nicked my hull but by the time he fired again my armor was full. I haven't tried much solo PvPing with it and I'm not sure how it would fare with no webber/scrambler.
NAFnist	Posted - 2005.01.25 08:34:00 - [35] Edited by: NAFnist on 25/01/2005 08:35:52 My jag setup; H: 3x 280mm II (1x optional) M: 2x shieldhardners (1x optional) L: 2x tracking 1xdmg mod Works pretty well (a mate made about 100dmg with his torps) _____________
ManOfHonor	Posted - 2005.01.27 20:36:00 - [36] who the heck gets hit by torps? _____________________________ Honor Glory And Strength! Honor Above Self Glory For Self Strength Of Self (\_/) (^.^) (> <)
Vordicae	Posted - 2005.02.09 23:27:00 - [37] pretty much Everyone these days, Speed is no longer an escape :( ----------------------------------------------------- In space .. no-one can hear you munching crisps in the back seat of your Hauler ! ----------------------------------------------------- Show me the money
Rexy	Posted - 2005.02.09 23:58:00 - [38] i would shieldtank the jag and use arty's it can tank decently enough unlike a wolf. just a bit low in the damage department. getting into range with 200mm's is kinda tricky with an AF so i'd stick to 250/280's. did i mention wolfs were rubbish yet :P? All i want for cristmas is a typhoon with launcher rof bonus :)
CmdoColin	Posted - 2005.02.10 02:10:00 - [39] Originally by: Rexy 200mm's seem pointless n combat, a set of blaster will do more damage then :/ 200mm have greater range than blasters. Remember its optimal + fall off for max range. As the minmatar ships are faster they can keep the distance even when webbed. (if using a webber themselves) Thats mainly because most gallante pilots only use antimatter. They should use long range stuff, and as such so should minmater pilots as a counter. I've messed with 'em abit - but don't like them. They are just too slow. The one missile slot messes you up too much, with 200mm your going to be out ranged everytime in 1 vs 1. Your forced to use missiles rather than smarts in that slot. Defence wise as others have said that just isn't enough against 3 missile launchers, so a crow or a kessy will waste them. When I say defence I don't care how I achieve that. Tanking the damage, knocking evey missile out of the sky via defences, or just destroying the enemy fast enough so I'm the one to fly away. Sure in theory the Jag looks good speed wise on paper. Look at the mass though. Its a slow arsed ship and will be beat by any frig in a race - and with only 200mm's fitted also in combat. Out of the two - I'd go Wolf, and use it as a main damage dealer/sniper in PvP. Nice possibilty as a point defence for a blob war too against incoming tacklers. Vigils or inties are tacklers not assaults. As such your probably looking at 280's. Here though for both of those roles - whether its a main damage dealer for a fast moving wolf pack or a fleet defence, other ships are better suited. Destroyers come to mind, and so does the kestral as a main damage dealer. Both of which are t1 ships, and as such are very much cheaper. What I'd like personally from a minmatar assault ship is something I could use 200mm on - but so far haven't found the current models allow me to get in on the target fast enough. I still am looking for my t2 rifter Actually to be awkward I'm not thrilled with any of the assault ships personally. Its possibly because I'm too attached to the t1 ships they are based on - so I'm biased so ignore me... Audita et altera pars
HatePeace LoveWar	Posted - 2005.02.11 04:15:00 - [40] Originally by: slothe Originally by: DaddyS I bought myself a Jaguar yesterday and I am still trying to find a setup. That is what I used so far (I used tech I stuff to find the right setup - you might use named or tech II items): high: 3x250 mm + 1 standard launcher with light missiles med: webi, 20km scram, 1 MWD low: cap power relay, 1 armor hardener, 1 small repairer The bad news about it: I almost lost the Jaguar to a Kestrel when i tested the setup. The Kestrel used Thorn rockets (a damage type where the Jaguar is week). And I forgot to turn the hardener on (forgive me my this noob fault). So I would not say this is perfect setup. I am still playing around. Cheers DaddyS this guy wasnt so lucky... 2005.01.20 21:09:00 Victim: Red Lantern Corporation: Black Omega Security Destroyed Type: Jaguar Solar System: 6-CZ49 System Security Level: 0.0 Involved parties: Name: Octo (laid the final blow) Security Status: 4.4 Corporation: Millennium Ship Type: Kestrel Weapon Type: Thorn Rocket I EW? AFK? o.O Former Member of Omega Corp

Conmen	Posted - 2005.02.11 04:41:00 - [41] Originally by: Rexy i wouldn't engage any AF in my jaguar or wolf , bar maybe another jag or wolf :). the gallente and amar frigs can tank the damage dealt by these things easily while easily penetrating the tank, if it exists at all, of a wolf/jag. The jag/wolf has the best base shield resistance in the game and when kit right no other assualt frig stands a chance WE ARE THE UBER LEET !TH CENTURY RP CORP !THCENTURY STYLE BABY. THANK YOU SHEEDZOR FOR THIS SIG GET PREPARED EVE TO BE WTFOWN
Conmen	Posted - 2005.02.11 04:47:00 - [42] Originally by: CmdoColin Originally by: Rexy 200mm's seem pointless n combat, a set of blaster will do more damage then :/ 200mm have greater range than blasters. Remember its optimal + fall off for max range. As the minmatar ships are faster they can keep the distance even when webbed. (if using a webber themselves) Thats mainly because most gallante pilots only use antimatter. They should use long range stuff, and as such so should minmater pilots as a counter. I've messed with 'em abit - but don't like them. They are just too slow. The one missile slot messes you up too much, with 200mm your going to be out ranged everytime in 1 vs 1. Your forced to use missiles rather than smarts in that slot. Defence wise as others have said that just isn't enough against 3 missile launchers, so a crow or a kessy will waste them. When I say defence I don't care how I achieve that. Tanking the damage, knocking evey missile out of the sky via defences, or just destroying the enemy fast enough so I'm the one to fly away. Sure in theory the Jag looks good speed wise on paper. Look at the mass though. Its a slow arsed ship and will be beat by any frig in a race - and with only 200mm's fitted also in combat. Out of the two - I'd go Wolf, and use it as a main damage dealer/sniper in PvP. Nice possibilty as a point defence for a blob war too against incoming tacklers. Vigils or inties are tacklers not assaults. As such your probably looking at 280's. Here though for both of those roles - whether its a main damage dealer for a fast moving wolf pack or a fleet defence, other ships are better suited. Destroyers come to mind, and so does the kestral as a main damage dealer. Both of which are t1 ships, and as such are very much cheaper. What I'd like personally from a minmatar assault ship is something I could use 200mm on - but so far haven't found the current models allow me to get in on the target fast enough. I still am looking for my t2 rifter Actually to be awkward I'm not thrilled with any of the assault ships personally. Its possibly because I'm too attached to the t1 ships they are based on - so I'm biased so ignore me... I tank spawns in 0.0 with a wolf... continuosly these are two of the best out there destroyed harpies with mine amarr ones dont stand a chance only one i havent come across is the gallente ones however doubt they would do any better now that they boosted projectiles. WE ARE THE UBER LEET !TH CENTURY RP CORP !THCENTURY STYLE BABY. THANK YOU SHEEDZOR FOR THIS SIG GET PREPARED EVE TO BE WTFOWN
xxShadexx	Posted - 2005.04.03 11:35:00 - [43] Jag's rock ! Tanking - 3x 280mm t2, 1x named standard launcher 1x t2 small shield booster, 1x small shield extender, 1x cap recharger named 2x power diags t2, 1 named basic power diag This setup tanks agints most things, u can take out the shield extender, put in a cap recharger and in low take out the basic PDU and put in a damage mod, up to u. Tackling - 3x 280mms t2, 1x named stand launcher 1x warp disrupter, 2x remote sensor dampeners 2x nanofiber internal structure and somethng else Ok this has no tanking but if u lock the enmy fast enuf and damp em, they wont b able to target u and u let ur guns go crazy. Both times i use a mix of phased plasma and fusion.
Miss Awful	Posted - 2005.04.03 12:08:00 - [44] Anyone of you guys tried making the jaguar an interceptor? High 3x280 Arti Med: MWD, Web, Scrambler Low: Nanofibers
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.04.03 12:23:00 - [45] Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: DaddyS Originally by: Grimpak Originally by: Vicker Lahn'se You people are having trouble because you're using it wrong. Why on earth do you put artillery on your frigates? The only use I can see for small artillery is if frigates are the only ships you can fly. I use tech2 200mm autocannons. 200mm autocannons operate at a closer range and have higher DOT than artillery. Combine this with a tech2 1MN afterburner and orbit at 2500m. Hardly anybody can hit a frigate moving this close and this fast. Personally, I'm a bigger fan of the Wolf, but the Jaguar would be better if you want the capabilities to tackle. For med slots on a Jaguar I would recommend: tech2 1MN afterburner, a small shield booster, and a warp inhibitor. Low slots, have a party, do what you want. Personally, tech2 gyrostabilizers turn me on. Some of you guys might prefer armor hardeners, though. erm... jags are made for artys... look at the bonuses... Minmatar Frigate Skill Bonus: 5% Small Projectile damage bonus, 15% EM and 10% Thermal resistance bonus to Shield and Armor per level Assault Ships Skill Bonus: 10% Small Projectile Turret optimal range and 5% Tracking Speed per le The bonuses are for small projectile turrets. So they work for artillery and autocannons. DaddyS yeah but with those bonuses I would use artys, not AC's. Autocannons are the best for Frigs. Just because it has a "Range" bonus doesn't mean you use 250's/280's. Frigs have "Close" and "Long" range compared to other Frigs. Frigs are designed to be close range DoTTing assault ships. So you can do "Close", "Tight", and "Fast" orbits around a victim to prevent gunnery damage. I also support the comment about 200's doing better damage. My DoT's with 200's have more critical hits of "150" damage to overpast most typical arty gunnery. Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri -The Frig-
Rexy	Posted - 2005.04.03 12:30:00 - [46] Originally by: Famine Aligher'ri Autocannons are the best for Frigs. we're talking about an assault frigate here, assault frigates are slow, ab/mwd or not. unless you have a device wich attracts frigates i would not recommend using autocannons ever on AF, for pve they work very well however. But for pvp, its'a big nono. All i want for cristmas is a typhoon with launcher rof bonus :)
Famine Aligher'ri	Posted - 2005.04.03 12:36:00 - [47] So glad everyone thinks base "325 m/sec" and a MWD is slow now. It's no "Inty" but it's fast enough to get a jump on someone. Famine Aligher'ri, of The Aligher'ri -The Frig-
Bruchpilot	Posted - 2005.04.03 13:10:00 - [48] I killed a Wolf at 20km in my Harpy in a few seconds (he only hit me 3 times and tried to warp off). I killed a Jaguar in my Raptor using neutron blasters. I even killed a Wolf+Rupture in a 2vs1 in my Harpy. Didn't see any point why ppl flew them so often. Well, yesterday I bought a Wolf... Then I realized that it has as many dmg bonuses as the other AFs and with its poor CPU you cant even equip some dmg mods. Guess I'll go back to Harpy. It can tank better, it has better range and it even does more dmg than a Wolf/Jaguar. The only thing it's good at is onehitting Itys/Frigs.
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.04.03 15:05:00 - [49] Originally by: Bruchpilot I killed a Wolf at 20km in my Harpy in a few seconds (he only hit me 3 times and tried to warp off). I killed a Jaguar in my Raptor using neutron blasters. I even killed a Wolf+Rupture in a 2vs1 in my Harpy. Didn't see any point why ppl flew them so often. Well, yesterday I bought a Wolf... Then I realized that it has as many dmg bonuses as the other AFs and with its poor CPU you cant even equip some dmg mods. Guess I'll go back to Harpy. It can tank better, it has better range and it even does more dmg than a Wolf/Jaguar. The only thing it's good at is onehitting Itys/Frigs. well noone said that jaguars were made for toe-to-toe fights against other Afrigs. Wolf is the damage dealer of the minmatar Afrigs btw. the 1-shot-pop-frig setups are very common. Jags are just a specialized heavy scout/frig killer Afrig. They pop anything smaller than them, and they do that job very well. Problem is (and always will be) the weak kinetic resistance that they have in shields and armour. ------------------- Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
CrazyArsed Monkey	Posted - 2005.04.11 17:23:00 - [50] Originally by: Illystin De'Vir I was able to tank a geddon in my wolf.... havn't tried a Jaguar fully yet, but I'd recommend pretty much what everyone else has. 3x 250mm 1x Missle (Standard or Rocket) 1x AB 2, 1x 20km Scram, 1x Cap Recharger 2 1x t2 Small Armor Rep, 1x Armor Plate or Hardner, 1x Power Relay LOL, you mean you got out alive, you killed it or it was mining without combat drones?

Zyrla Bladestorm	Posted - 2005.04.11 17:51:00 - [51] Ah the Shaguar, never underestimate one with a good pilot, its not really a main line ship thats for sure, but with the right kit (I shant go into details on that, besides saying dont take the majority cookie cutter view for granted ) Without this ship I would have never gotten to hear from a member of a corp that shall remain unnamed, but who know who they are I bet on local to his eight corp-mates in a curse system during the height of the XF/CA war : Quote: >Dont undock!! >That Foundation guy is in an assault frig, he beat three of us in intys earlier, and now he has a friend!! (I was the friend, and to hear my mate tell it, the fourth one got away from him ) To this day I cant help but chuckle when I think back to it, that and the ~30 ship blob Xirtam once organized to try to swat my friend in his shaguar To summize, excellent little ship if you can think outside the box. . ----- Apologys for any rambling that may have just occurred.
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2005.04.21 17:03:00 - [52] As typically with Minmatar, the more the merrier. 2v2 or 3v3 the jaguar theoretically will be victorius. Problem though is this theory was debunked in Starcraft. When you start requiring more units, you introduce more complexity. Thus it becomes more difficult to reach this full potential, but the difficulty is never considered... I am able to walk upto Ravens lobbing torps in my tempest, and still have a fighting chance when using 800mm. This does not scale at all though. I have difficulty walking up to missile boats in my rupture unless fitted with defenders. It does not seem possible in the Jaguar. i guess every ship has a flaw My fitting L 3x250 1xrocket M 1xSmall shield booster 1x1mn AB 1xcap recharger S 3xGyrostabilizer I prefer smaller gun + gyro over larger gun. Especially when range is not really a factor. When fighting higher class ships, You should fight far under the optimal. For cruisers you can go 4x under and get the same tracking and bs 10x under. Plus you become that much harder for them to hit, so be darn sure to get into their comfort zone. The problem I see with the Jaguar is the slots. If you ignore the bonus, what special can it do with 3 middle slots? When using middle slots if you are not putting a module in there that has no low slot counterpart, then you just as well be flying a wolf. Problem with CCP's design policy of 'accentuate the negative' really hurts the Minmatar. This is another case. jaguar has the mid slots and cpu for shield D, but not the power to fit the guns to go with long range combat require when using shield D. wolf has the power for the long guns, but not the cpu for the shields. this situation plays itself out time and time again... Therefore neither of these ships is really capable of effective long range combat. Plus an optimal bonus is best for the ships the fight at and under their optimal, e.g. short range ships. ill have to examine a short range setup ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Domalais	Posted - 2005.04.21 19:21:00 - [53] Originally by: Miss Awful Anyone of you guys tried making the jaguar an interceptor? High 3x280 Arti Med: MWD, Web, Scrambler Low: Nanofibers Done it. It works well. Essentially a heavy tackler, can take the fire long after your intys warp out. However, I used one local nano and 2 CPRs. You need the CPRs to run the MWD and scramble, the cap on the Minmatar assaults is godawful.
Grimpak	Posted - 2005.04.21 20:02:00 - [54] Originally by: Zyrla Bladestorm Ah the Shaguar, never underestimate one with a good pilot, its not really a main line ship thats for sure, but with the right kit (I shant go into details on that, besides saying dont take the majority cookie cutter view for granted ) Without this ship I would have never gotten to hear from a member of a corp that shall remain unnamed, but who know who they are I bet on local to his eight corp-mates in a curse system during the height of the XF/CA war : Quote: >Dont undock!! >That Foundation guy is in an assault frig, he beat three of us in intys earlier, and now he has a friend!! (I was the friend, and to hear my mate tell it, the fourth one got away from him ) To this day I cant help but chuckle when I think back to it, that and the ~30 ship blob Xirtam once organized to try to swat my friend in his shaguar To summize, excellent little ship if you can think outside the box. ...kinda the same that happened in the JQA war with me: at the end of the day, after 1 inty+pod and a few frigs down, I was taken out by an harpy and a few of his mates. ...that was a very well setted up trap, using that cyclone to keep me and a friend that was in a crow, busy. Still it went in a blaze of glory: 1 maled, 1 crow+pod and a shedload of frigs killed in his lifespan. And belive me.. it was a short life that the ship had (2 days) ------------------- Quote: Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
pardux	Posted - 2005.04.21 21:14:00 - [55] i use 3x280mm II 1xStandard\rocket launcher Gistii a-type shieldbooster 90% webber and something 2xGyro II 1xtracking enhancer II you need to take one gyro if you are going to have a 20km scrambler on it Fluffy carebear (\_/) (O.o) (> <) This is Bunny. Copy Bunny into your signature to help him on his way to world domination.
SageOfMystery	Posted - 2005.05.04 10:00:00 - [56] to me this ship is basicly a slow interceptor, i have 200mm auto cannons tech II with EMP ( like blasters i dont thik the range is to big to care) 1 roket lancher (defenders) but i can swap if needed mids are a MWD Scrambler 2x Lows Energized nano tech II (though i figure most people dont have hull upgrades at 5) small Armor rep II Power dag. Baiscly its a slow but strong interceptor, it can take a beating well locking ships down but at the expence of the speed witch can normaly end up bad, however i have been in situations were i wished my ceptor would hold out a little longer and this is the awnser to that.
Thundercrash	Posted - 2005.05.04 16:08:00 - [57] Sorry but i can't resist, Don't bother with a jag and just get a vengence Victim: Mathews Corporation: Solo Stoners Destroyed Type: Jaguar Solar System: U-QVWD System Security Level: 0.0 Involved parties: Name: Thundercrash (laid the final blow) Security Status: -0.7 Corporation: Shadow Company Ship Type: Vengeance Weapon Type: Dual Light Beam Laser II I had a MWD and a 20km scram and he cudnt do a thing to me (yes i know he was prob a noob but im still happy i took a jag with a vengence )
Aldanor	Posted - 2005.05.06 09:45:00 - [58] Edited by: Aldanor on 06/05/2005 09:47:51 Id say he was in a autocannon jag ;)
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2005.05.06 17:11:00 - [59] Originally by: Aldanor Edited by: Aldanor on 06/05/2005 09:47:51 Id say he was in a autocannon jag ;) In frigate combat, at least on minmatar ships, use artillery. I don't care what ship it is. I did some more math, and came out with different result. Prefer the long guns if you only sacrifice 1 gyrostab to get them on. So I'm gonna try and refit, -1 Gyrostabilizer II, +1 MAPC, and upgrading from 250 -> 280s. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.
Imhotep Khem	Posted - 2005.05.06 17:14:00 - [60] Originally by: pardux i use 3x280mm II 1xStandard\rocket launcher Gistii a-type shieldbooster 90% webber and something 2xGyro II 1xtracking enhancer II you need to take one gyro if you are going to have a 20km scrambler on it I am assuming 'Something' is not an AB or MWD as I don't see how you fit 3x280 Howitzer IIs without some extra power otherwise. ____ If your not dyin' your not tryin'.



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