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orientall
The Infadels Holdings
0
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Posted - 2011.09.26 00:53:00 -
[1] - Quote
I'm not joking, fix minmatar republic lp store. I don't know what happened to tag prices but best items like republic gyro and distruptors are not worth to get anymore. Ppl in other threads say that they get 2k/lp. The best i can get from republic is 1k/lp at best and i have to waite for market orders. I make 1 mil lp a day and i fill all buy orders at once with best item i found in store. The other thing is thatmin republic has pathetic bpc. Who wants to buy proton smartbomb for100mil or cruise launcher?I'm not talking about afteburner, small afteburner for 150 mil, anyone? What about ships, fleet tempest is 200mil and 500lp, sells for 375mil?wtf. There are items that cost more in tags then item would sell, wtf. FIX IT!!! |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
86
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Posted - 2011.09.26 01:32:00 -
[2] - Quote
Don't get so fixated on the idea of making money from the item you want to buy from the LP store.
If you're looking to make money, you must focus only on what items you can buy from the LP store that you can sell for a profit.
If there is no profit to be made from selling afterburners (because there are too many people trying to sell afterburners), sell something else instead. If that LP store doesn't have anything worth selling, switch to a different corp to run missions for, and find an LP store which doesn't sell things that aren't worth selling.
The problem you are encountering is that certain agents are particularly popular because they offer a nice mix of missions and are in 0.5 systems, which means they provide higher than normal LP and ISK payouts. Thus "everyone" runs missions for Vir Honn, and all these RF mission-runners try converting their LP to ISK through the items available in the RF LP store. Thus all items that are available through the RF LP store are significantly deflated in price.
That is: people run missions for NPC corp X because the missions are good and the ISK rewards are good. They then have LP to dispose of (since gaining LP wasn't their goal). They then dispose of those LP buying items in that NPC corp's LP store, but since there are so many mission runners going for greatest ISK/hr from shooting things, there are bucket loads of LP being poured through that LP store, which devalues the LP-to-ISK conversion ratio of all the items in that store.
Working that in reverse, you need to find the LP stores that provide the best LP-to-ISK conversion through specific items, then find the agents to work with who will give you the best LP/hr. Do that for a bunch of NPC corps and you'll find which one provides the optimum ISK/hr from LP-to-ISK conversion.
But don't expect CCP to "fix" what isn't broken. It's not the LP store that's broken, it's your expectations of making a profit in a saturated market.
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Substantia Nigra
NFI industrial Revival Of The Talocan Empire
7
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Posted - 2011.09.26 02:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
Mara Rinn wrote:But don't expect CCP to "fix" what isn't broken. It's not the LP store that's broken, it's your expectations of making a profit in a saturated market.
Nicely explained and well put Mara. Thanks.
I still love my Minmatar LPs ... but then I use them for my own ammo and modules rather than as an isk-profit spinner.
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orientall
The Infadels Holdings
0
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Posted - 2011.09.26 02:20:00 -
[4] - Quote
ok, u are wrong and right at the same time. Right about finding better agent, about prices being low becouse of too many ppl run same agents, but i run lvl5 missions just to support my pvp and i caan't travel around for better agent. Also lp store is broken if u can buy better gist afteburner for lower price then RF afteburner cost in tags only, it's broken becouse FW mission runners make tag prices ridiculous becouse FM don't produce tags. If i want to convert 1 mil lp to items that need tags i must buy all tags in Jita and that would make tag prices even more ridiculous. So why it's not broken? why before removing mission skills everything was good?Something realy went bad. I think it's just another ccp efort to make huge isk sink, becouse converting 1 mil lp sinks for me 1 bil isk aprox. |
Gavin DeVries
JDI Industries
3
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Posted - 2011.09.26 03:07:00 -
[5] - Quote
The prices at the LP store are not tied to the prices of deadspace modules on contracts. The LP store prices are set, from well before my time, probably back when the LP stores were first implemented. It just so happens that the current state of the supply and demand marketplace has caused the prices to fall. Because most LP store items require tag hand ins, those prices can't drop much below the cost of the tags, even when someone is trying to dump on the market to make most of their investment back. Deadspace modules costs are purely based on risk and time, with the only monetary investment being into the ship used.
That doesn't make the LP store broken, it simply means that it isn't currently profitable. Eventually people will stop losing money there and move on to other things, and the lower supply will cause the prices to go back up. I can't say when, or how much, and I could even be wrong. They might never learn. |
Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
0
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Posted - 2011.09.26 03:08:00 -
[6] - Quote
orientall wrote:ok, u are wrong and right at the same time. Right about finding better agent, about prices being low becouse of too many ppl run same agents, but i run lvl5 missions just to support my pvp and i caan't travel around for better agent. Also lp store is broken if u can buy better gist afteburner for lower price then RF afteburner cost in tags only, it's broken becouse FW mission runners make tag prices ridiculous becouse FM don't produce tags. If i want to convert 1 mil lp to items that need tags i must buy all tags in Jita and that would make tag prices even more ridiculous. So why it's not broken? why before removing mission skills everything was good?Something realy went bad. I think it's just another ccp efort to make huge isk sink, becouse converting 1 mil lp sinks for me 1 bil isk aprox.
Don't just look at all the FW mission runners, take a look at what happened with the agent changes.
Take fed webs, for example. The 5 run bpc corps were pretty crappy because of so so agents/locations. All the agents got evened out, and BAM........everybody started doing missions for the "oddball" corps. More people needing tags means higher tag prices. The bottleneck tag went from like 1.1mil to 6+.
I miss 50mil fed webs.
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Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
18
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Posted - 2011.09.26 03:14:00 -
[7] - Quote
Templar Dane wrote:Don't just look at all the FW mission runners, take a look at what happened with the agent changes. Take fed webs, for example. The 5 run bpc corps were pretty crappy because of so so agents/locations. All the agents got evened out, and BAM........everybody started doing missions for the "oddball" corps. More people needing tags means higher tag prices. The bottleneck tag went from like 1.1mil to 6+. I miss 50mil fed webs.
This, more or less. Basically, the agent changes shifted a higher proportion of cost to tags, which drives down the value of LP under most circumstances. But there are still exceptions worth digging around for. It's true that trading in the same items pre- and post-agent changes will be less profitable, but it's still possible to get decent LP conversions -- just not with the same items. |
orientall
The Infadels Holdings
0
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Posted - 2011.09.26 03:48:00 -
[8] - Quote
ok, i'l explain more detailed whats wrong and what must be done. The main problem for lp store is tags amount needed for mods. It's very simple to fix it: reduce tags amount for mod 10 times, increse isk cost when buying in store. After that mods that where not profitable to buy becouse of better tier mods costing less become usable. That means u'l get more items in store u can buy. Players will start using those mods. That also means the game will even get more isk sink, which is good. U'l not be making more profit but atleast there will be something u can sell, currently i have 8 mil lp which i have nowhere to put, and i don' care if i get 1k/lp or 0.7k/lp it's still good isk. |
Kesshisan
33
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Posted - 2011.09.26 04:12:00 -
[9] - Quote
orientall wrote:oi caan't travel around for better agent.
Just because you are unable or unwilling to adjust to a changing market doesn't mean the market must change to your needs. . |
orientall
The Infadels Holdings
0
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Posted - 2011.09.26 04:43:00 -
[10] - Quote
some ppl are so stupid, do you UNDERSTAND if tag price went from 1 mil to 6mil the whole lp store is broken. And i sugested how to fix it, do you see any drawbacks of it? i see only good things. And comenting like oh u can't move to another agent is very nice, yes i can move to another agent can move to another game also, but i like this game and want something to be fixed that is broken and if u think everything is ok, read from the begining. |
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Cyniac
Twilight Star Rangers Black Thorne Alliance
9
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Posted - 2011.09.26 08:26:00 -
[11] - Quote
orientall wrote: do you UNDERSTAND if tag price went from 1 mil to 6mil the whole lp store is broken.
No it's not.
It just means that people who run the faction mission to get the tags are getting much more money these days.
There is no "fixed" worth of an LP - its gone up and down over time but basically now it's crashing for a few reasons:
1) Mission Blitzing - is becoming ever more popular so people are racking up more LPs over time.
2) Agent Changes - Now more people are able to access high level agents with less (minimal) effort - so they also get more LP
3) Importance of Standings - When I first joined EVE most people were not frazzled about their standings much. Now most mission runners I know insist on running only non-faction combat missions -> Less tags to go around for all those LPs. This has been exacerbated by the introduction of incursions which require pilots to be able to access all parts of known space in order to participate, so mission running pilots who also run incursions are not going to compromise their ability to participate in incursions.
4) Reduced demand for LP store goods - this is part of the general slump in the economy and not directly related to LP store but most economic activity is going down
5) Increase in Exploration - means that some LP items are now in competition with a steady supply of deadspace goods which often perform better.
I am not familiar with FW but if as you say it requires tags but does not generate any this will also drive the price of tags up.
All that leads to an overall decrease in the LP to ISK conversion - it's not broken though, it is a dynamic economy. What was good and sweet yesterday is almost certain to be mediocre tomorrow because eventually people do catch onto the good deals.
Mind you - I agree with your premise that the LP stores could use a bit of love and some changes perhaps including other ways to pay for stuff that didn't include tags or much reduced tags.
TL;DR - Recent changes in EVE have made LP more plentiful, Tags less so and demand for LP items is dropping. No wonder the LP -> ISK ratio is not as good as it once was. |
Uzbeg Khan
Perkone Caldari State
0
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Posted - 2011.09.26 08:44:00 -
[12] - Quote
orientall wrote:some ppl are so stupid, do you UNDERSTAND if tag price went from 1 mil to 6mil the whole lp store is broken. And i sugested how to fix it, do you see any drawbacks of it? i see only good things. And comenting like oh u can't move to another agent is very nice, yes i can move to another agent can move to another game also, but i like this game and want something to be fixed that is broken and if u think everything is ok, read from the begining.
No need to call people stupid. As some have mentioned; tag prices has gone up due to people like you making insane amounts of LP's and are trying to convert your LP's into isks.
This just means that production costs for LP store mods will increase, and you'll make less isk unless you can sell them sell them for a higher price. Kinda how the market works for ALL ships and modules |
Sellendis
The Ares project
12
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Posted - 2011.09.26 08:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
TL:DR What i would like is an option to buy stuff in bulk. Wanna buy 1000+ Starbase charters? Its a click fest till the finger drops off or the mouse dies. |
X ATM092
The Hatchery
0
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Posted - 2011.09.26 09:22:00 -
[14] - Quote
Of course you can't get good rates, you're missioning for a massively oversaturated corp which doesn't pay very much. You don't see people working minimum wage jobs and then when they get their paycheque at the end of the month suddenly being surprised that they don't make ****. If what you do doesn't pay very well then you won't make much money. Do something that pays better instead of whining about how what you do doesn't make much. |
Obsidiana
White-Noise
5
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Posted - 2011.09.26 12:06:00 -
[15] - Quote
I read in an interview that CCP is aware of the drop in value of LP. The change in the agents (which was haphazard to begin with) has led to this. The answer could be something we may or may not like...
On the plus side: I hope for more items with new isk sinks and no/low tags. I could deal with a shift lowering tags and increasing isk sinks. Requiring more common criminal tags would be nice.
On the minus side: They may reduce LP per mission. They may just up isk sinks on existing items. They may reduce isk per mission to control inflation.
(The QEN mentions there being more isk than ever in Eve which is a problem.)
On the neutral side: They may tweak tags type/quantity needed, which may just cause the same problem later. If tags for a high meta level item are also used by a moderate one, well, the moderate one will never be profitable. This is also a case of where it is easy to fix one problem and create another.
This is all to say I do agree that there is a problem, but I don't know if the cure will be better than the disease.
Trying to be positive again, I have also read that CCP has nothing against adding new ships. If they add new faction ships for existing/unique/new hulls then it would add isk/LP sinks nicely. I don't fly Minmatar, but even I would like a Navy Maelstrom. Now if they added Thukker, Khanid, SoE, etc. ships then that would help divert some attention toward other corps (esp. if they made some good agent running spots). |
orientall
The Infadels Holdings
0
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Posted - 2011.09.26 15:59:00 -
[16] - Quote
Sorry, to call someone stupid, but comments like this drives me crazy. I agree to everything said here but that that only means that LP store is way from balanced. If i get 100k lp per mission and i need 4 faction missions to get the tags i need to withdraw 100lp it's not sounds good becouse thats another 400 lp asuming i get 4 faction mission, right type in a row. Basicaly i'l have about 1-2 mil lp made while trying to get tags for itens cost 100 lp. And i see a problem here that needs fixing. |
Spineker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2011.09.26 16:50:00 -
[17] - Quote
Wasn't missions that created the bloat of ISK in Eve it was CCP allowing people to bot, destroying thousands of NPC ships in null everyday for a long time without even bothering to do anything about it. Had people making a living from selling isk on the Internet.
They were all over null sec.
As for the cost of items that is market can't "fix" the market either people will buy something for x amount or they will not. When there is no more market for an item and the cost to put that item on the market cost more than the price of the sale it is over the supply is bloated and out paces demand. Then it will eventually balance out when there is a demand for it once supply is lowered, until there is a demand why create or purchase something that sales for cost? Dropping the number of tags will simply drop the cost of the item even more you can't stop it until it balances out on its own. Lots of ships die there is a demand. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
213
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Posted - 2011.09.26 17:10:00 -
[18] - Quote
orientall wrote:I agree to everything said here but that that only means that LP store is way from balanced. If i get 100k lp per mission and i need 4 faction missions to get the tags i need to withdraw 100lp it's not sounds good becouse thats another 400 lp asuming i get 4 faction mission, right type in a row. Basicaly i'l have about 1-2 mil lp made while trying to get tags for itens cost 100 lp. And i see a problem here that needs fixing. No, the problem is that you are so hell-bent on using items that require tags that you're no longer acting in a market-rational way.
You are in an eco system together with everyone else who is using the same resources (ISK, LP, tags, whathaveyou) and just because the grazing gets thin in one area doesn't mean that the grass is broken GÇö it means it's time for you to move on and maybe nibble on some trees instead and wait for that patch of ground to recover. GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Orlacc
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2011.09.26 17:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
Tippia wrote:....just because the grazing gets thin in one area doesn't mean that the grass is broken GÇö it means it's time for you to move on and maybe nibble on some trees instead and wait for that patch of ground to recover.
QFT |
Lady Aja
1
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Posted - 2011.09.26 17:27:00 -
[20] - Quote
orientall wrote:some ppl are so stupid, do you UNDERSTAND if tag price went from 1 mil to 6mil the whole lp store is broken. .
wrong. its because the high sec hugging ***** mission runners refuse to do anti faction missions, so they buy thier tags and drive up the price.
and you make 1m lp a day? are you doing lvl 5's? |
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Lady Aja
1
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Posted - 2011.09.26 17:30:00 -
[21] - Quote
orientall wrote:Sorry, to call someone stupid, but comments like this drives me crazy. I agree to everything said here but that that only means that LP store is way from balanced. If i get 100k lp per mission and i need 4 faction missions to get the tags i need to withdraw 100lp it's not sounds good becouse thats another 400 lp asuming i get 4 faction mission, right type in a row. Basicaly i'l have about 1-2 mil lp made while trying to get tags for itens cost 100 lp. And i see a problem here that needs fixing.
you are better off running lvl 4 missions and having alts to farm anti faction missions
lvl 5 missions dont give out tags that are different to lvl 4's, i learnt this one the hard way. |
orientall
The Infadels Holdings
0
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Posted - 2011.09.26 18:14:00 -
[22] - Quote
yes i do lvl5, no i don't buy tag items from store, becouse i simply get more just selling those tags alone, one faction missio gives about 70-100mil just selling tags and i repeat one more time: there are 90% of items in store that are useless becouse of amount tags needed, so why not reduce that to get those items used and moved to market? and no i'm not going to run lvl4 becouse simply lvl5 are way more profitable even with risk involved. Can u make 1.5bil in 6-7h with lvl4? if so i'l do them. |
Spineker
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
5
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Posted - 2011.09.26 18:32:00 -
[23] - Quote
The number of tags needed is not what makes the item useless what makes it useless is no one wants it enough to pay the price because either their is a cheaper alternative that gets the job done or it just isn't popular. Lowering the number of tags required will simply drop the value of the item even lower. |
orientall
The Infadels Holdings
0
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Posted - 2011.09.26 19:51:00 -
[24] - Quote
Spineker, let's take small rep or ab from store, it costs 100 mil in tags and lp + isk is just small amount, and now u say that if reduce tags to let's say 10mil in cost, still make that mod not worth? |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
18
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Posted - 2011.09.26 19:55:00 -
[25] - Quote
orientall wrote:Spineker, let's take small rep or ab from store, it costs 100 mil in tags and lp + isk is just small amount, and now u say that if reduce tags to let's say 10mil in cost, still make that mod not worth?
That's exactly right. When a similar or better deadspace rep or AB is common enough to compete on volume, no reduction in tag cost is going to bring the faction module into price parity. |
Derath Ellecon
Washburne Holdings
3
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Posted - 2011.09.26 20:56:00 -
[26] - Quote
orientall wrote:yes i do lvl5, no i don't buy tag items from store, becouse i simply get more just selling those tags alone, one faction missio gives about 70-100mil just selling tags and i repeat one more time: there are 90% of items in store that are useless becouse of amount tags needed, so why not reduce that to get those items used and moved to market? and no i'm not going to run lvl4 becouse simply lvl5 are way more profitable even with risk involved. Can u make 1.5bil in 6-7h with lvl4? if so i'l do them.
Thank you for illustrating exactly how the player driven economy works and why this isn't "broken"
Right now there is a supply/demand situation in EVE where there is a higher demand for tags. As others have explained this may be due in part to the increased amount of LP people are trying to burn from the mission agent changes. It is also probably due in part to players changing habits (I for one am one of those mission runners who opt out of faction missions as to not mess up my faction standings)
So for now tags are in greater demand, which is indicative of your willingness to sell tags rather than LP items. Over time some players will give up trying to sell certain LP items. Also other players, seeing how lucrative tags are, will be more willing to run faction missions.
Then at some point LP items will likely bounce back, as the supply of tags will go up and LP item supply goes down.
Of course by then you will likely be here complaining you can't make 70-100mil selling the tags and tags need to be "fixed"
Full on player market economy. It ain't broken, but it can be a *****. |
orientall
The Infadels Holdings
0
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Posted - 2011.09.26 21:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
if tags go back in price, i'm not gonna complain just sell mods from store. Time will show. Still noone answered why we have 239 useless overpriced items in store. Thanks all for answers i'm still in good shape with lvl5 and i hope as everyone said market will recover. |
Tippia
Sunshine and Lollipops
214
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Posted - 2011.09.26 21:30:00 -
[28] - Quote
orientall wrote:Still noone answered why we have 239 useless overpriced items in store. You don't. You have 239 items that, due to market forces, currently are either not particularly attractive to buyers, or far too popular among sellers to bring in any large amount of cash.
GÇöGÇöGÇö GÇ£If you're not willing to fight for what you have in GëívGëí you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.GÇ¥ GÇö Karath Piki-á |
Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
0
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Posted - 2011.09.26 22:07:00 -
[29] - Quote
orientall wrote:some ppl are so stupid, do you UNDERSTAND if tag price went from 1 mil to 6mil the whole lp store is broken.
That's how an economy works. More demand for something increases the price.
Though, I do think that the LP stores need some tweaks. I think the battleship mods/ships/implants requirements are spot-on, but the medium/small module tag requirements are through the roof....and some tweaks to the tag drops would be nice too.
Example......
11 easy-to-find tags 77 uncommon tags 117 omfg only drops from 2nd tier bc
orientall wrote: And comenting like oh u can't move to another agent is very nice, yes i can move to another agent can move to another game also, but i like this game and want something to be fixed that is broken and if u think everything is ok, read from the begining.
Well, if you want to make the max isk/hour, you need to accept the fact you'll need to move once everybody else catches on and moves in on your turf.
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Templar Dane
Amarrian Retribution
0
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Posted - 2011.09.26 22:35:00 -
[30] - Quote
Lady Aja wrote:
lvl 5 missions dont give out tags that are different to lvl 4's, i learnt this one the hard way.
I have done caldari and amarr level 4s, and amarr level 5s. From this perspective I can tell you that the only source of minmatar and gallente tags from doing level 4s is Enemies Abound....and the only minmatar tags are in the last part. Period.
Level 5s on the other hand, give out oodles and oodles of anti-faction missions.
70% or more of the missions I got were against the enemy factions. I'd get an oddball pirate mission maybe 1/10th of the time, with the one drone mission popping up much more often.
A small sample....
Rogue Spy Operation Wyrmsbane Convoy attack Stray Gallente Carrier Cleansing Fire Cleansing Fire Crush the Sebiestor Station Oust the Cleaimjumpers Convoy Attack Wrath of Angels Convoy Attack Crush the Sebiestor Station Rogue Spy The fortress Sansha on the Horizon Rogue Spy Stray Gallente Carrier Fate of angels Cleansing Fire Rogue spy Location Location Sansha acquisition The Fortress Fate of Angels Cleansing Fire Sansha on the Horizion Honor Oust the Claimjumpsers Mordus Headhunters
Though, this may make it look like they offer a lot of pirate missions, but it was mostly a location issue where I was turning down a lot of missions that were in a nearby system with no station and a lot of traffic. FYI couple of the pirate missions are always in system, and another I know for sure is always one jump. YMMV.
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