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A total letdown of new PI

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Onibrak Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.01.29 19:35:00 - [121] Edited by: Onibrak on 29/01/2011 19:45:24 Edited by: Onibrak on 29/01/2011 19:44:16 Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Originally by: Onibrak You are ****ed. Pre patch I was pulling about 1.5m p0 per day with 3 5 hour cycles a day. ****ed is doing PI extraction in high-sec... I live in 0.0, if that was directed at me. To give you an idea of former numbers, running 10 basics takes about 1.44 million p0 to keep them going for 24 hours. Running 3 daily 5 hour cycles with the previous PI incarnation would give me a buffer of somewhere around 100-150k at the end of 24 hours as the last cycle on the processors completes. If I ran 4 because it was a weekend that was pure buffer into the launch pad. I am currently having trouble feeding 8 processors, which takes a much smaller 1.1m to feed, and my buffer pad is been and is staying entirely empty. The devs have stated they wanted to keep extraction rates mostly the same. They have failed utterly, even when there is no competition for resources because you're in the back of beyond Deklein systems where there are maybe six other goons using the same planets I am at most, and not all of them are extracting the same stuff I am. I checked today, there are no other structures on any of the planets I use but mine within the areas I use to extract, and based on scan data some of the others on my planets aren't pulling out the same things I am, as they're sitting directly on large concentrations of other resources.
NenYim	Posted - 2011.01.30 00:23:00 - [122] im just after some figgers, i was running around 600m isk per mounth with my old PI setup, just making POS fuel, im yet 2 set up again due 2 other facter's so i cant say how much im making now isk wise but id like 2 know what u guys where doing be4 and after the patch per month isk wise, how much income have u lost due 2 the change's, also, i didnt like the click fest that happend be4 the patch, by the sounds of it, its still a click fest, :(
Zaerlorth Maelkor The Maverick Navy IT Alliance	Posted - 2011.01.30 01:18:00 - [123] Holy crap there's alot of whining going on here. Fact is if you rethink your whole PI setup instead of trying to recreate what you had before you can make as much isk as you did before the changes, for less effort. However, you might want to consider a few things, first of all; I now have one of those annoying sigs. second; you should probably move on to some more interesting things than reading this sig.
lushn	Posted - 2011.01.30 01:32:00 - [124] Originally by: Zaerlorth Maelkor Holy crap there's alot of whining going on here. Fact is if you rethink your whole PI setup instead of trying to recreate what you had before you can make as much isk as you did before the changes, for less effort. I wonder Why some guys throwing crap around if other tells they cant make same isk with new PI system ? Ist the purpose of game makin isk? whats the measure of effort? if someone doing more isk than you with less effort should be? should we set standard as your effort?
Argonaught Minmatar Cabbage Tea	Posted - 2011.01.30 02:19:00 - [125] Edited by: Argonaught on 30/01/2011 02:19:23 Originally by: Zaerlorth Maelkor Holy crap there's alot of whining going on here. Fact is if you rethink your whole PI setup instead of trying to recreate what you had before you can make as much isk as you did before the changes, for less effort. Thats a load of arse, I'm the only one on my planet that has bothered to update their PI so noone else is sucking up any materials however I'm way down in extraction rates and production. Before I had 2x4 extractors, 2x4 basic processors and 4 advanced. after I have 2x2 ECU running 5 head each, 2x3 basic processors and 3 advanced the extraction rates can barely keep up with the 3 basics. No tell me How is it I can make the same when extraction is way way down? I firmly believe the ones making more stuff are the ones who only do P0 or maybe P1 but not P2, so stop spouting arse ffs it's all a loss in PI and I've lost a fair few mill already in deleting and resetting up the stupid ECU's to try and get the same numbers but it just won't happen. Also depletion rates are ****ing all setups up. So stick up your arse and see if the new ECU can extract it. ------------------------------------------------ Coming soon or never.sig
Sokrates Zosimus	Posted - 2011.01.30 03:23:00 - [126] Argonaught, consider yourself lucky. I'm looking at 5 planets with blue hotspots. One of them does have a green spot though. The new PI is a huge pain in the ass no doubt but what choice is there now. CCP killed the NPC market for PI items and then killed the planet resources so we HAVE to spend all our time in PI. And now, my planets are nearly dead. Production has almost stopped. I don't often *** about things, i'm optomistic by nature, but when i wind up playing PI when i should be playing EvE, it's time to ***.
Onibrak Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.01.30 04:00:00 - [127] Originally by: Zaerlorth Maelkor Holy crap there's alot of whining going on here. Fact is if you rethink your whole PI setup instead of trying to recreate what you had before you can make as much isk as you did before the changes, for less effort. Why don't you go back to your ****cage in 6vdt where you belong, pubbie. Intelligent people are trying to talk.
Argonaught Minmatar Cabbage Tea	Posted - 2011.01.30 04:12:00 - [128] Edited by: Argonaught on 30/01/2011 04:12:47 Sokrates, I have the same issues with blue showing up where a red spot used to be the night before and I'm in a .1 system :( I'm just really annoyed at ccp devs atm as I was one of the many who did check out PI on test server and gave feedback and the Devs ignored it and everyone elses concerns before it went live. And whats making me more unhappy is the fact the devs seem to think it's all hunky dory. Ah well, time to stop shouting since CCP ain't listening. Argo. ------------------------------------------------ Coming soon or never.sig
Tau Cabalander Caldari	Posted - 2011.01.30 04:47:00 - [129] With level 4 CC, I'm averaging 9-10 processors + ECU + spaceport, and using 23:45 cycles. I estimate with just the extra processors I've added, I'm getting 20% more P1. I used to do two 5 hour cycles per day, often only one, and sometimes 3 or 4. Being able to restart a program is keeping my colony running at max capacity around the clock. I'm extracting a lot more as a result. I was already using factory planets, so no difference there for me. Well, now I am starting to wonder about transporting so much more, as I'm in a C5. Overall though, new PI definitely was an improvement for me.
Sokrates Zosimus	Posted - 2011.01.30 06:11:00 - [130] 9-10 per planet?! You play EvE Online right? I have 7 heads on one of my ECU's. I'm drawing 4152 P0 per hour on a 10 hour cycle. Thats on a hotspot i prospected for 45 minutes finding the best spot in the area. How the heck do you get 9-10 processors on one planet!? I've destroyed a number of facilities and moved to new planets over and over. Which means i've spent more just rebuilding planets than i would have if i had gone and bought the PI from the market. All of them are dead with the exception of a few that last 2 or 3 days and then are just as dead. I hate to say this Tau, your either a liar or insanely lucky. Still, 7 heads and 4k P0 is BS and it continues to get worse. Linkage

Onibrak Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.01.30 09:51:00 - [131] Originally by: Tau Cabalander I used to do two 5 hour cycles per day, often only one, and sometimes 3 or 4. Being able to restart a program is keeping my colony running at max capacity around the clock. I'm extracting a lot more as a result. Bolded the important part. You didn't do serious PI before. Two cycles on a 0.0 planet with 10 processors won't feed 10 basic production for 24 hours. With excellent placement 3 5 hour cycles barely covered 24 hours of operation on 10 processors, and that was when depletion wasn't a factor. "I'm making 20% more" doesn't say much when you're making more because you weren't min/maxing what PI can do on a single P1 planet.
Horizonist Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation	Posted - 2011.01.30 10:03:00 - [132] Edited by: Horizonist on 30/01/2011 10:03:22 Originally by: Sokrates Zosimus 9-10 per planet?! You play EvE Online right? I have 7 heads on one of my ECU's. I'm drawing 4152 P0 per hour on a 10 hour cycle. Thats on a hotspot i prospected for 45 minutes finding the best spot in the area. How the heck do you get 9-10 processors on one planet!? I am running 7 P1 Processors per planet on my 0.1 and 0.2 planets, so assuming you are in nullsec, its perfectly doable. Also, 7 heads on one hotspot is a bad idea, it will run dry very fast, and you will find yourself having to cut down on production. The best thing is to try and place yourself in an area with multiple spots (of course) so that you can spread the ECU heads around. Personally anything more than 2 heads (maybe 3) per spot makes me uncomfortable. Originally by: Sokrates Zosimus I've destroyed a number of facilities and moved to new planets over and over. Which means i've spent more just rebuilding planets than i would have if i had gone and bought the PI from the market. All of them are dead with the exception of a few that last 2 or 3 days and then are just as dead. Again, did you place all your extraction around a single hotspot? That is most likely why you are having problems with it - try experimenting a bit with moving your stuff around, look at where other players have their ECUs and avoid them, and try to bring up your Planetology skills. I promise, after some experimentation and aha-experiences, you will find it more profitable. Originally by: Sokrates Zosimus I hate to say this Tau, your either a liar or insanely lucky. Still, 7 heads and 4k P0 is BS and it continues to get worse. It is not, I find I can pull close to 50k at times in lowsec using 7 heads minimum. It all depends on the planet, your skills, and your setup.
Sokrates Zosimus	Posted - 2011.01.30 11:09:00 - [133] No i'm in high sec so avoiding other networks is a problem. Still, i'll take your advice and try to find a planet where i'll have a few spots under one ECU, it's time to move again anyway. I will set up a 4 or 5 day program because im curious if it will drop to nothing as the spot drains in a day or if it will continue to produce what the program origionally predicted. Would be interesting to see my ECU producing 12k an hr over an area thats been picked clean for 2 days.
Horizonist Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation	Posted - 2011.01.30 11:17:00 - [134] If you are in hisec, that should explain a lot. I have never done PI there myself, but from what I have seen, hisec planets are downright horrible - terrible resource concentrations, and I dont think it is unfair to assume that they are rather overpopulated (hence many people draining the same hotspots etc). If you are serious about PI, get setup in 0.1, or at most, 0.2 space. It is less risky than you think. The only real problematic part is logistics, which can still be handled relatively safely if you just have a Transport ship.
Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel. The Defenders of Pen Island	Posted - 2011.01.30 11:47:00 - [135] Well... it certainly plays better than before, but depletion is pretty ******ed given the immense difficulty and relative cost of moving ECUs around. Not convinced this has done PI any good.
Horizonist Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation	Posted - 2011.01.30 13:22:00 - [136] Originally by: Helicity Boson Well... it certainly plays better than before, but depletion is pretty ******ed given the immense difficulty and relative cost of moving ECUs around. Not convinced this has done PI any good. If you are doing it right, you should not have to move ECUs around in the first place. Not being critical here, but that is just the way it works - find an equilibrium between depleting and replenishing your hotspots.
Lord Jita Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp	Posted - 2011.01.30 13:40:00 - [137] Edited by: Lord Jita on 30/01/2011 13:42:02 Originally by: Horizonist Originally by: Helicity Boson Well... it certainly plays better than before, but depletion is pretty ******ed given the immense difficulty and relative cost of moving ECUs around. Not convinced this has done PI any good. If you are doing it right, you should not have to move ECUs around in the first place. Not being critical here, but that is just the way it works - find an equilibrium between depleting and replenishing your hotspots. How do YOU know what is "doing it right." Are you a developer here? No. You know no more than anyone else. Hotspots disappear and do not come back. Often in less than a few hours time. Eventually, your entire setup is left in a "dead zone" with NO resources of ANY TYPE within ECU range. Moving is the ONLY option.
Horizonist Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation	Posted - 2011.01.30 13:45:00 - [138] Originally by: Lord Jita Edited by: Lord Jita on 30/01/2011 13:40:11 Originally by: Horizonist Originally by: Helicity Boson Well... it certainly plays better than before, but depletion is pretty *****ed given the immense difficulty and relative cost of moving ECUs around. Not convinced this has done PI any good. If you are doing it right, you should not have to move ECUs around in the first place. Not being critical here, but that is just the way it works - find an equilibrium between depleting and replenishing your hotspots. How do YOU know what is "doing it right." Are you a developer here? No. You know no more than anyone else. sigh* So I need to be a dev in order to do PI efficiently (ergo, correctly)? The new systems extraction is based around the "depth" and deplete/replenish functions of hotspots on planets. The key is not simply to find good hotspots, but also try and balance you extraction in such a way that you can get good, stable yields (if you deplete it too fast, you will get initial high yields, but after a few days or so, you will be biting the dust as you find yourself extracting less than half of what you initially were able to). Thus, if you do it right, you will be able to run at optimal capacity per planet. There is really not too much else to it that I am aware of. You might want to check the dev blogs on the topic as well if I missed anything.
Lord Jita Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp	Posted - 2011.01.30 13:49:00 - [139] Originally by: Horizonist Originally by: Lord Jita Edited by: Lord Jita on 30/01/2011 13:40:11 Originally by: Horizonist Originally by: Helicity Boson Well... it certainly plays better than before, but depletion is pretty *****ed given the immense difficulty and relative cost of moving ECUs around. Not convinced this has done PI any good. If you are doing it right, you should not have to move ECUs around in the first place. Not being critical here, but that is just the way it works - find an equilibrium between depleting and replenishing your hotspots. How do YOU know what is "doing it right." Are you a developer here? No. You know no more than anyone else. sigh* So I need to be a dev in order to do PI efficiently (ergo, correctly)? The new systems extraction is based around the "depth" and deplete/replenish functions of hotspots on planets. The key is not simply to find good hotspots, but also try and balance you extraction in such a way that you can get good, stable yields (if you deplete it too fast, you will get initial high yields, but after a few days or so, you will be biting the dust as you find yourself extracting less than half of what you initially were able to). Thus, if you do it right, you will be able to run at optimal capacity per planet. There is really not too much else to it that I am aware of. You might want to check the dev blogs on the topic as well if I missed anything. yeah you missed something. try reading rest of my post.
Horizonist Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation	Posted - 2011.01.30 13:59:00 - [140] Edited by: Horizonist on 30/01/2011 14:03:50 Originally by: Lord Jita yeah you missed something. try reading rest of my post. Please, not so hostile! You finished your edit when I was writing a reply to your first posting (which was just "How do YOU know what is "doing it right." Are you a developer here? No. You know no more than anyone else"), and so I did not see it until now. Either way, to answer the rest of your post: Originally by: Lord Jita Hotspots disappear and do not come back. Often in less than a few hours time. This is not true, the dev blog makes it clear that hotspots are like "buckets", they fill up again over time, hence you need to find the equilibrium. See: Devblog on PI From the blog: Quote: Depleted resources regenerate so moving extractor heads off a hotspot will allow it to grow back. It is also possible to achieve equilibrium with the resource by extracting at the same pace as it regenerates - this is achievable only by carefully tuning and monitoring the hot spot you are on to make sure it doesn't lose strength. Originally by: Lord Jita Eventually, your entire setup is left in a "dead zone" with NO resources of ANY TYPE within ECU range. Moving is the ONLY option. Again, not correct, for the reason above.

Lord Jita Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp	Posted - 2011.01.30 14:05:00 - [141] Originally by: Horizonist Edited by: Horizonist on 30/01/2011 14:03:50 Originally by: Lord Jita yeah you missed something. try reading rest of my post. Please, not so hostile! You finished your edit when I was writing a reply to your first posting (which was just "How do YOU know what is "doing it right." Are you a developer here? No. You know no more than anyone else"), and so I did not see it until now. Either way, to answer the rest of your post: Originally by: Lord Jita Hotspots disappear and do not come back. Often in less than a few hours time. This is not true, the dev blog makes it clear that hotspots are like "buckets", they fill up again over time, hence you need to find the equilibrium. See: Devblog on PI From the blog: Quote: Depleted resources regenerate so moving extractor heads off a hotspot will allow it to grow back. It is also possible to achieve equilibrium with the resource by extracting at the same pace as it regenerates - this is achievable only by carefully tuning and monitoring the hot spot you are on to make sure it doesn't lose strength. Originally by: Lord Jita Eventually, your entire setup is left in a "dead zone" with NO resources of ANY TYPE within ECU range. Moving is the ONLY option. Again, not correct, for the reason above. Yeah OK I am lying. you are a tool.
Horizonist Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation	Posted - 2011.01.30 14:06:00 - [142] Originally by: Lord Jita Yeah OK I am lying. you are a tool. I really don't see the need for your attitude. You are not lying, you simply assumed something about PI that was wrong, and I pointed it out to you. There is nothing wrong with that, we live and learn.
Lord Jita Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp	Posted - 2011.01.30 14:08:00 - [143] Originally by: Horizonist Originally by: Lord Jita Yeah OK I am lying. you are a tool. I really don't see the need for your attitude. You are not lying, you simply assumed something about PI that was wrong, and I pointed it out to you. There is nothing wrong with that, we live and learn. I just told you what my experience has been, yet you say I am not "correct." You are indirectly calling me a liar. In response I am calling you a god damn idiot. How do you like to be called a liar? And you wonder why I have an attitude with you? How about you stop saying people are not telling the truth? You are internet garbage.
Horizonist Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation	Posted - 2011.01.30 14:14:00 - [144] Edited by: Horizonist on 30/01/2011 14:14:55 Originally by: Lord Jita I just told you what my experience has been, yet you say I am not "correct." You are indirectly calling me a liar. In response I am calling you a god damn idiot. How do you like to be called a liar? And you wonder why I have an attitude with you? How about you stop saying people are not telling the truth? You are internet garbage. So if I correct somebody when he says "Mars is the third planet from the sun, as far as we know" (when actually Earth is the third, Mars the fourth), I am calling him a liar? This is not true at all - pointing out to someone that their thinking about something is not correct is not calling them liars, it is simply correcting someone, a perfectly polite and normal thing that happens everywhere. Calling somebody a liar would be if they know better, but yet try to make others believe something they themselves know is not true. You did not know PI worked like this, you simply thought it worked otherwise, and said accordingly. Thus, you are of course not a liar, and neither am I accusing you of being one.
Lord Jita Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp	Posted - 2011.01.30 14:16:00 - [145] Originally by: Horizonist Edited by: Horizonist on 30/01/2011 14:14:55 Originally by: Lord Jita I just told you what my experience has been, yet you say I am not "correct." You are indirectly calling me a liar. In response I am calling you a god damn idiot. How do you like to be called a liar? And you wonder why I have an attitude with you? How about you stop saying people are not telling the truth? You are internet garbage. So if I correct somebody when he says "Mars is the third planet from the sun, as far as we know" (when actually Earth is the third, Mars the fourth), I am calling him a liar? This is not true at all - pointing out to someone that their thinking about something is not correct is not calling them liars, it is simply correcting someone, a perfectly polite and normal thing that happens everywhere. Calling somebody a liar would be if they know better, but yet try to make others believe something they themselves know is not true. You did not know PI worked like this, you simply thought it worked otherwise, and said accordingly. Thus, you are of course not a liar, and neither am I accusing you of being one. You don't know anything. That's the problem. You are a blind, rabid fanboi who posts walls of text that wastes everyone's time. You should probably just stop posting, you are really bad at it.
Horizonist Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation	Posted - 2011.01.30 14:18:00 - [146] Originally by: Lord Jita You don't know anything. That's the problem. You are a blind, rabid fanboi who posts walls of text that wastes everyone's time. You should probably just stop posting, you are really bad at it. What is it that I don't know?
Lord Jita Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp	Posted - 2011.01.30 14:18:00 - [147] Originally by: Horizonist Originally by: Lord Jita You don't know anything. That's the problem. You are a blind, rabid fanboi who posts walls of text that wastes everyone's time. You should probably just stop posting, you are really bad at it. What is it that I don't know? You don't know how bad at posting you are for one.
Horizonist Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation	Posted - 2011.01.30 14:20:00 - [148] Originally by: Lord Jita Originally by: Horizonist Originally by: Lord Jita You don't know anything. That's the problem. You are a blind, rabid fanboi who posts walls of text that wastes everyone's time. You should probably just stop posting, you are really bad at it. What is it that I don't know? You don't know how bad at posting you are for one. So what is wrong with my posts?
Lord Jita Lord Jita's Big Gay Corp	Posted - 2011.01.30 14:20:00 - [149] Originally by: Horizonist Originally by: Lord Jita Originally by: Horizonist Originally by: Lord Jita You don't know anything. That's the problem. You are a blind, rabid fanboi who posts walls of text that wastes everyone's time. You should probably just stop posting, you are really bad at it. What is it that I don't know? You don't know how bad at posting you are for one. So what is wrong with my posts? They're pretty terrible. Boring, misinformed, low entertainment value. You should probably just stop making them.
Horizonist Yulai Guard 2nd Fleet Yulai Federation	Posted - 2011.01.30 14:25:00 - [150] Originally by: Lord Jita They're pretty terrible. Boring, misinformed, low entertainment value. You should probably just stop making them. So what is misinf...gah... /me decides to stop feeding the troll Have a nice day.



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