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A total letdown of new PI

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Oslarica	Posted - 2011.01.18 18:48:00 - [1] I'm a PI builder in high sec. I have one char with lv5 planetology, lv4 advanced planetology. I found the new PI formula cause me lose about 33% extracting rate per 5 hour in an elite PI, which is producing one type of advanced procuct before. The dxxn extractor control unit costs 2600 power and 550 for each extractor head. The "33%" number comes from real extracting amount per cycle, comparing to "same power usage extators" before. So the CCP wants everyone to focus on only one basic prodcut in each planet? Maybe they think the price of rocket fuel is not high enough, so they should put it to 30k per unit.
BinaryData Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.01.18 18:53:00 - [2] I feel your pain man. I was producing 1800 Noble Gas per 15 minutes, and producing about 200oxygen per hour. Now I'm barely making enough to fuel my POS for a day. This is outrageous. The extractor's cost SOOO much in Power & CPU that you can only fit a little bit. I'm fed up with this. Your "new" features, are just ******ed..
Worgen Fratmon Minmatar Instapop Industries	Posted - 2011.01.18 19:07:00 - [3] Edited by: Worgen Fratmon on 18/01/2011 19:08:33 So, we have a system that was designed to improve PI and get more people involved. What we got is a 30-50% reduction in production, a click and drag fest to replace the former click fest, more hauling, and waits for the pretty graphics that take long than the former waits for scanning. So, we do twice the work and spend twice the time to get as much as half our former production. How is this an improvement? CCP did get 1 thing right. Upgradeable Command Centers. So this was not 100% bad, just 90%.
Julien Brellier	Posted - 2011.01.18 19:10:00 - [4] What they want us to do is over-extract one P0, then move the heads, hoover up the next P0, move the heads and so on until you have enough raw stuff to start production. Your planet CAN still produce the same products but it will take a few cycles to build up a big enough P0 buffer before production starts. On certain set-ups, you will require extra storage to hold all the over produced stuff for you. Gone are the days of having mega-efficient colonies that simply required re-starting once a day. Now you have to work for it. Pain in the butt.
BinaryData Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.01.18 19:11:00 - [5] Originally by: Worgen Fratmon Edited by: Worgen Fratmon on 18/01/2011 19:08:33 So, we have a system that was designed to improve PI and get more people involved. What we got is a 30-50% reduction in production, a click and drag fest to replace the former click fest, more hauling, and waits for the pretty graphics that take long than the former waits for scanning. So, we do twice the work and spend twice the time to get as much as half our former production. How is this an improvement? CCP did get 1 thing right. Upgradeable Command Centers. So this was not 100% bad, just 90%. I agree Worgen. I get their logic in not wanting to have people produce completed products on one planet, like my friend Zappaku said. So yeah, not a complete fail, but still a fail.
RREBEL13	Posted - 2011.01.18 19:49:00 - [6] Yes the new Pi stinks. I went from extracting over 1000 per extractor to 47 with 4 extractors combined. With the way it is now it will take an entire corp working together to keep 1 pos going for 24 hrs and you can expect the PI fuels prices to skyrocket into the millions of isk per unit because of this blunder of CCP.
Pohbis Neo T.E.C.H.	Posted - 2011.01.18 19:58:00 - [7] And why does a lower extraction rate matter?
Cergorach Amarr The Helix Foundation	Posted - 2011.01.18 20:02:00 - [8] Edited by: Cergorach on 18/01/2011 20:03:39 I would almost like to call these threads manipulation threads they scare away folks from doing PI... I just redid one colony (need to redo almost 50) and I'm not losing any production, but then again I was running on a 23hr cycles and not the 5hr cycles. So maybe CCP 'nerfed' the shorter cycles, maybe they 'nerfed' high-sec, maybe you guys are doing it wrong. I can only be happy if there's less production from my competitors, I especially like it when my competitors just quit! Same demand, less supply is higher prices for me ;-) I personally like the new interface at first try, have to see if I keep liking it after a few weeks...
Linda Flamewalker	Posted - 2011.01.18 20:03:00 - [9] Originally by: Julien Brellier What they want us to do is over-extract one P0, then move the heads, hoover up the next P0, move the heads and so on until you have enough raw stuff to start production. Your planet CAN still produce the same products but it will take a few cycles to build up a big enough P0 buffer before production starts. On certain set-ups, you will require extra storage to hold all the over produced stuff for you. Gone are the days of having mega-efficient colonies that simply required re-starting once a day. Now you have to work for it. Pain in the butt. This.
RREBEL13	Posted - 2011.01.18 20:11:00 - [10] Originally by: Pohbis And why does a lower extraction rate matter? Because it take 3000 units to make an item. when extractors are pulling 1000 units each you can make 1 product per 30 minutes but when it drops to 47 units per hour total it would take 63 hours to get enough stuff to built 1 unit.

RREBEL13	Posted - 2011.01.18 20:15:00 - [11] Also when you go to place your heads on the scan location the scan info disappears leaving you holding your finger on the screen or a sticker to mark the correct location.
Lyman Alpha Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2011.01.18 20:26:00 - [12] I'm trying to decide if I want to even screw with PI any more... or even if I want to continue playing EVE. I'm kinda' tired of learning a new game every time CCP brings out an expansion. I'm also tired of them ****ing with all my settings from the overview during one expansion to the shortcut keys with this one. IMO, they could screw up a wet dream. I know... "can you haz my stuff?"
BinaryData Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.01.18 20:26:00 - [13] Originally by: Pohbis And why does a lower extraction rate matter? And how many POS's do you fuel? I have a few that I fuel. Lower rates means more time, for the same output of fuel. I guess you could always just mass produce, and then move it all to a production planet, but is that really cost effective?
Aunty Nora	Posted - 2011.01.18 20:30:00 - [14] Originally by: Lyman Alpha I'm trying to decide if I want to even screw with PI any more... or even if I want to continue playing EVE. I'm kinda' tired of learning a new game every time CCP brings out an expansion. I'm also tired of them ****ing with all my settings from the overview during one expansion to the shortcut keys with this one. IMO, they could screw up a wet dream. I know... "can you haz my stuff?" You should hve just stayed in Wow.
Javajunky	Posted - 2011.01.18 20:33:00 - [15] +1 fixing clickfest -3 for screwing it up everything else. -7 for not listening to your F*CKING player community and just do the one thing really wanted and that was give us a button to cycle all extractors. -10 for being that company that is becoming like everyone else, out of touch with its community base.
Lyman Alpha Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2011.01.18 20:34:00 - [16] Originally by: Aunty Nora Originally by: Lyman Alpha I'm trying to decide if I want to even screw with PI any more... or even if I want to continue playing EVE. I'm kinda' tired of learning a new game every time CCP brings out an expansion. I'm also tired of them ****ing with all my settings from the overview during one expansion to the shortcut keys with this one. IMO, they could screw up a wet dream. I know... "can you haz my stuff?" You should hve just stayed in Wow. Sorry, jerk, I never played WOW.
Lyman Alpha Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2011.01.18 20:36:00 - [17] Originally by: Javajunky +1 fixing clickfest -3 for screwing it up everything else. -7 for not listening to your F*CKING player community and just do the one thing really wanted and that was give us a button to cycle all extractors. -10 for being that company that is becoming like everyone else, out of touch with its community base. Agree.
Worgen Fratmon Minmatar Instapop Industries	Posted - 2011.01.18 20:37:00 - [18] Edited by: Worgen Fratmon on 18/01/2011 20:42:52 Originally by: BinaryData Originally by: Pohbis And why does a lower extraction rate matter? And how many POS's do you fuel? I have a few that I fuel. Lower rates means more time, for the same output of fuel. I guess you could always just mass produce, and then move it all to a production planet, but is that really cost effective? Its not cost effective. I fuel POSes, too (or I used to). I used 4 planets to produce all the POS fuel I needed (with some excess) for each Large POS. Don't bother trying that now, you need at least 9 planets or constant screwing with the resource your extractors are mining.
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express The Spire Collective	Posted - 2011.01.18 20:40:00 - [19] Preliminary tests from colleagues I think POS Fuel and PI stuff in general is going to skyrocket, or we need some major adjustments. I gotta fix mine tomorrow sounds rough and discouraging. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. -Mitnal
Worgen Fratmon Minmatar Instapop Industries	Posted - 2011.01.18 20:40:00 - [20] Originally by: Javajunky +1 fixing clickfest -3 for screwing it up everything else. -7 for not listening to your F*CKING player community and just do the one thing really wanted and that was give us a button to cycle all extractors. -10 for being that company that is becoming like everyone else, out of touch with its community base. Is Incursions the new SWG:NGE? Time will tell, but if CCP screws up more than just the PI, I can see it happening.

Cergorach Amarr The Helix Foundation	Posted - 2011.01.18 20:41:00 - [21] Edited by: Cergorach on 18/01/2011 20:42:12 Originally by: BinaryData Originally by: Pohbis And why does a lower extraction rate matter? And how many POS's do you fuel? I have a few that I fuel. Lower rates means more time, for the same output of fuel. I guess you could always just mass produce, and then move it all to a production planet, but is that really cost effective? I don't know about you but I get actually more P0 when using an ECU with 10 heads then using 12 of the old extractors. I do use a little shorter cycle 17-18hrs instead of 23hrs, but that's not so problematic for me. I could actually produce ~10% more on a single planet that way, might be so much as 20% if I were to move most of my P1 production off planet, have to do some calculations, but it could be more profitable with virtually no extra work (my P2 production is already off planet so I could integrate it with the factory planets).
Deandra Walran	Posted - 2011.01.18 20:45:00 - [22] Originally by: Cergorach Edited by: Cergorach on 18/01/2011 20:42:12 Originally by: BinaryData Originally by: Pohbis And why does a lower extraction rate matter? And how many POS's do you fuel? I have a few that I fuel. Lower rates means more time, for the same output of fuel. I guess you could always just mass produce, and then move it all to a production planet, but is that really cost effective? I don't know about you but I get actually more P0 when using an ECU with 10 heads then using 12 of the old extractors. I do use a little shorter cycle 17-18hrs instead of 23hrs, but that's not so problematic for me. I could actually produce ~10% more on a single planet that way, might be so much as 20% if I were to move most of my P1 production off planet, have to do some calculations, but it could be more profitable with virtually no extra work (my P2 production is already off planet so I could integrate it with the factory planets). Just the fact that you will be exporting P0's makes it less cost effective.
LHA Tarawa	Posted - 2011.01.18 21:00:00 - [23] Originally by: Oslarica So the CCP wants everyone to focus on only one basic prodcut in each planet? At a time. Stop thinking static production chains like old PI where you set up the colony one time. You can now move the extraction heads. So, you harvest this P0 for a day, filling up some storage. Then tomorrow you move all the extractors and harvest a different P0... Instead of a static, mindless clickfest, PI will now be more interactive.
BinaryData Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.01.18 21:12:00 - [24] Well I have noticed that some of my planets do extract 100x more than they previously did. Planets that have Ionic materials in them, can be produced easier than before. I scouted probably 100 planets and they all have relatively low Ionic Solutions, now I don't have that problem. Worgen: I added you to my friends on my alt, had a few questions for you :)
LHA Tarawa	Posted - 2011.01.18 21:17:00 - [25] Originally by: Worgen Fratmon or constant screwing with the resource your extractors are mining. THIS! Gone is the static, mindless click fest of restarting extractors. Replaced with 1) moving P1s to a manufacturing planet or 2) treating your colony as dynamic.
Jenny White	Posted - 2011.01.18 21:56:00 - [26] New PI system is totally screwed. I was PI'ing in a wormhole, producing 1 Mortar Applicator / hour completely alone. My producing line was perfectly balanced, letting me to run 5-hour cycles with stable outcome. and now, instead of my 3 extractors I can place only 1 head, because the rest dont fit in a powergrid! in example, my previous extracting amount was about 24k in an hour for every raw material, so I was able to keep 4 processors busy nonstop. and now, with 1 head I got around 7.5k per hour! ~60% loss, CCP! never thought that I would say something like that, but yes - Thank you CCP, you completely ruined PI system and made it totally worthless.
Worgen Fratmon Minmatar Instapop Industries	Posted - 2011.01.18 21:57:00 - [27] Originally by: LHA Tarawa Originally by: Worgen Fratmon or constant screwing with the resource your extractors are mining. THIS! Gone is the static, mindless click fest of restarting extractors. Replaced with 1) moving P1s to a manufacturing planet or 2) treating your colony as dynamic. Exactly, more tedium for less output. @Binary: Ask away.
Zeke Ruach	Posted - 2011.01.18 22:02:00 - [28] This new update totally missed the point. The idea is not to log on and click for 30 minutes in order to be able to fuel a couple of pos's. Why not make it 1 click, or let it run on 23 hr. cycles indefinately? What used to take me 30 minutes in now going to take 2-3 hrs. I don't play Eve for resource management.... The only thing CCP got right was the upgradable command centers. But, I don't need to worry. I'm done with planets and pos's. I can make more isk running missions.
BolsterBomb	Posted - 2011.01.18 22:36:00 - [29] Although I am not a fan of the new PI changes, I liked spending the 3+ hours designing production lines and letting it work, just like moon mining. I didnt mind the "click fest". If figured thats how I "earned" my money. A couple things with the new PI. I dont know if I exactly "like or hate it" it is different and changes take time to adjust to. PI WILL spike in POS fuel just like any other mat that has changes and then the market will readjust. What the devs did with this update was to move PI into line with DUST that is coming out. By having mobile extrator heads it will allow a player to still do PI as little xbox nymphos run around destroying our stuff. THAT is what I would worry about, how DUST will mess up PI. The current system is doable but it takes more thought about how to run your planets. Please stop crying the world is coming to the end with PI. Heck birds are fallling from the sky around here and I find it comical. But please do so, stop PI that means more ISKIES for me. I already adjusted my planets to run with the new system before the patch so now harm here. THink it through and all will be fine.
Kerfira Kerfira Corp	Posted - 2011.01.18 22:44:00 - [30] Originally by: Zeke Ruach This new update totally missed the point. The idea is not to log on and click for 30 minutes in order to be able to fuel a couple of pos's. Why not make it 1 click, or let it run on 23 hr. cycles indefinately? What used to take me 30 minutes in now going to take 2-3 hrs. I don't play Eve for resource management.... The only thing CCP got right was the upgradable command centers. But, I don't need to worry. I'm done with planets and pos's. I can make more isk running missions. PI was not intended for you to get easy money with little work! It was intended to be just another way for people to EARN money, by spending time and effort! In EVE, for player-controlled areas of the economy, you get paid for EFFORT, not for how many of some item you produce. The reason for this is simple. If the price of the item is 'high', more people will do it, and prices will drop. If prices are 'low', some people will stop doing it, and prices will rise. Most likely, after prices have adjusted, a PI'er will earn about the same per effort as he did before this change, only it'll be less mind-numbing (and less macro-able). Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.



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