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Two Shots
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Posted - 2011.01.18 21:01:00 -
[1]
Dear Amateur Planetary Interaction Users;
Making P2 or P3 products from scratch on a single planet has always been an inefficient use of character slots and planets.
It has always been more efficient to get a single P0->P1 reaction on a single planet, and then to produce P1->P2, or P1->P3 on separate planets.
If you were doing R0->P2, or R0->P3 on a single planet, then you were cutting yourself out of massive potential profits.
Complaining about your inability to no longer short-change yourself is foolish and it undermines my faith in human intelligence.
Please just conform to the new paradigm, which forces you to go along with more profitable avenues.
Thank you in advance,
Two Shots.
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Tandin
The Knights Templar
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.18 21:06:00 -
[2]
Have to agree with you on that one.. I'll still be producing 24 robotics/hour on 2 production planets using the other 4 to mine materials. No huge loss on my part.
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Herroth
Gallente
Wolf-Monkey Bastards
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Posted - 2011.01.18 21:16:00 -
[3]
It's not always about efficiency. Some try to create just enough to fuel a POS with a certain material. PI isn't just for mass production contrary to what you might believe.
It could also be argued that it is inefficient for a mission runner without refining skills to refine his own loot. Eve is a sandbox game meant to be played as the player chooses.
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Two Shots
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Posted - 2011.01.18 21:18:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Herroth
It's not always about efficiency. Some try to create just enough to fuel a POS with a certain material. PI isn't just for mass production contrary to what you might believe.
It could also be argued that it is inefficient for a mission runner without refining skills to refine his own loot. Eve is a sandbox game meant to be played as the player chooses.
If you ever find that you have produced too much of a commodity, then please contract the left-overs to me. I wouldn't want you to ruin your immersion by having excess Robotics or Rocket Fuel cluttering up your hangar.
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Petyr Baelich
Valar Morghulis.
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2011.01.18 21:29:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Two Shots
Dear Amateur Planetary Interaction Users;
Making P2 or P3 products from scratch on a single planet has always been an inefficient use of character slots and planets.
It has always been more efficient to get a single P0->P1 reaction on a single planet, and then to produce P1->P2, or P1->P3 on separate planets.
If you were doing R0->P2, or R0->P3 on a single planet, then you were cutting yourself out of massive potential profits.
Complaining about your inability to no longer short-change yourself is foolish and it undermines my faith in human intelligence.
Please just conform to the new paradigm, which forces you to go along with more profitable avenues.
Thank you in advance,
Two Shots.
This. Thank you for restoring my faith in humanity.
Valar Morghulis is recruiting. |
Nekt
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Posted - 2011.01.18 21:31:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Nekt on 18/01/2011 21:31:50
Originally by: Two Shots
If you ever find that you have produced too much of a commodity, then please contract the left-overs to me. I wouldn't want you to ruin your immersion by having excess Robotics or Rocket Fuel cluttering up your hangar.
I don't see where he talked about immersion playing into it at all. Some people perhaps did not care about the wasted "efficiency" since that really depends on how much you value your time in game. If you wanna spend time hauling from planet to planet fine. To remove the ability to create enough robos for your pos only having to pick it up every two weeks seems pointless.
Its pretty obvious your just a trolling ass though.
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Two Shots
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Posted - 2011.01.18 21:49:00 -
[7]
Your avatar looks like he's having trouble passing a bowel movement.
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Nekt
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Posted - 2011.01.18 21:51:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Two Shots
Your avatar looks like he's having trouble passing a bowel movement.
Don't make fun of the cripple!
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Deandra Walran
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Posted - 2011.01.18 21:51:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Two Shots
Dear Amateur Planetary Interaction Users;
Making P2 or P3 products from scratch on a single planet has always been an inefficient use of character slots and planets.
It has always been more efficient to get a single P0->P1 reaction on a single planet, and then to produce P1->P2, or P1->P3 on separate planets.
If you were doing R0->P2, or R0->P3 on a single planet, then you were cutting yourself out of massive potential profits.
Complaining about your inability to no longer short-change yourself is foolish and it undermines my faith in human intelligence.
Please just conform to the new paradigm, which forces you to go along with more profitable avenues.
Thank you in advance,
Two Shots.
Prove it. Back up your theory with numbers. Do so for every combination of Interplanetary Consolidation and Command Center Upgrades.
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Wyke Mossari
Gallente
Staner Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.18 21:56:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Two Shots
Dear Amateur Planetary Interaction Users;
Making P2 or P3 products from scratch on a single planet has always been an inefficient use of character slots and planets.
It has always been more efficient to get a single P0->P1 reaction on a single planet, and then to produce P1->P2, or P1->P3 on separate planets.
If you were doing R0->P2, or R0->P3 on a single planet, then you were cutting yourself out of massive potential profits.
Complaining about your inability to no longer short-change yourself is foolish and it undermines my faith in human intelligence.
Please just conform to the new paradigm, which forces you to go along with more profitable avenues.
Thank you in advance,
Two Shots.
This is absolutely correct.
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Petyr Baelich
Valar Morghulis.
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2011.01.18 21:59:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Deandra Walran
Prove it. Back up your theory with numbers. Do so for every combination of Interplanetary Consolidation and Command Center Upgrades.
Awww... you got us. It really was more efficient for the guy who only wanted to spend 1 day training PI skills to produce 3 robotics every hour on his intermediate cc highsec plasma planet. Well done!
Valar Morghulis is recruiting. |
Vanity 6
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Posted - 2011.01.18 22:00:00 -
[12]
Two shots, does the method you describe require more hauling? Every time I think of doing PI the way you describe I imagine more hauling.
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Kisle
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Posted - 2011.01.18 22:01:00 -
[13]
Well, i never ran this setup just because it add lots of logistic troubles. That is the reason i was making P2 on single planet, you have to actually undock and fly to the planets only once a 10-15 days to pick up the P2 products.
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Tandin
The Knights Templar
R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.18 22:03:00 -
[14]
Clearly most of you have never run significant moon mining/reaction farms with POS's. This is actually far less hauling than that is.
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gforcer
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Posted - 2011.01.18 22:05:00 -
[15]
how would you know if my methods are inefficent, i can make all P4 products with my accounts, I put weeks into working it out and now it has all been undone, some one needs to friggin explain themselves at ccp. or they dont have a calculator to friggin add up the power cores.
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Deandra Walran
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Posted - 2011.01.18 22:41:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Petyr Baelich
Originally by: Deandra Walran
Prove it. Back up your theory with numbers. Do so for every combination of Interplanetary Consolidation and Command Center Upgrades.
Awww... you got us. It really was more efficient for the guy who only wanted to spend 1 day training PI skills to produce 3 robotics every hour on his intermediate cc highsec plasma planet. Well done!
Thought so. You can't prove that it is more efficient, so you start with an attempt (badly) at an ad hominem attack. Go back to WOW where those things are taken as proof.
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Two Shots
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Posted - 2011.01.18 22:53:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Vanity 6
Two shots, does the method you describe require more hauling? Every time I think of doing PI the way you describe I imagine more hauling.
Feeding a 5-planet setup with 1 character requires a single run in a rigged bestower each day.
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Chrome Ozone
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Posted - 2011.01.18 22:59:00 -
[18]
I don't know what the big issue is. The price will eventually creep up to compensate for the lack of production, just give it some time. As for me, I make p0 -> p2 on a single planet solely for the ease of use. I'm not terribly interested in having PI be my main money maker or time consumer, but it does help cut costs of production. I'm based just a couple of jumps from Jita and all my PI 10 jumps away in a .2. While not a ton better then straight up high sec it is better enough for me to justify my extractors being there and the area I found have the perfect setup of planets. Not wanting to make the 10 jump hop everyday, with a p0 -> p2 setup I was able to make around 250-275 mech parts or so a day which by the end of the week was enough to get me a decent amount of items to make robotics on a high sec planet in my home system. While I can't pull those same numbers after the change it really isn't all that far off and like I said I suspect prices to move slightly to compensate over time. I'm thankful for the clickfest to be over.
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Funesta
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Posted - 2011.01.19 00:17:00 -
[19]
Bravo, well said.
Just because robotics planets were popular doesn't mean they were well thought out. Some other half-baked system will be popular by next week. However, completely separating extraction & p1 from p2 - p3 - p4 manufacturing has always been, and will always be, more efficient.
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Deandra Walran
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Posted - 2011.01.19 00:24:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Funesta
Bravo, well said.
Just because robotics planets were popular doesn't mean they were well thought out. Some other half-baked system will be popular by next week. However, completely separating extraction & p1 from p2 - p3 - p4 manufacturing has always been, and will always be, more efficient.
Proof?
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Julien Brellier
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Posted - 2011.01.19 00:27:00 -
[21]
More efficent planets producing only P1 = more hauling = more time sink = less efficiency
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Mirac Factar
Gallente
Hypergolic
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Posted - 2011.01.19 00:37:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Two Shots
Dear Amateur Planetary Interaction Users;
Making P2 or P3 products from scratch on a single planet has always been an inefficient use of character slots and planets.
It has always been more efficient to get a single P0->P1 reaction on a single planet, and then to produce P1->P2, or P1->P3 on separate planets.
If you were doing R0->P2, or R0->P3 on a single planet, then you were cutting yourself out of massive potential profits.
Complaining about your inability to no longer short-change yourself is foolish and it undermines my faith in human intelligence.
Please just conform to the new paradigm, which forces you to go along with more profitable avenues.
Thank you in advance,
Two Shots.
This!
Although you shouldn't have told everyone, more people doing PI means i'll make less money.
This just in, the energizer bunny has been arrested and charged with battery. |
Turzyx
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.19 00:38:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Turzyx on 19/01/2011 00:40:44
Originally by: Deandra Walran
Originally by: Petyr Baelich
Originally by: Deandra Walran
Prove it. Back up your theory with numbers. Do so for every combination of Interplanetary Consolidation and Command Center Upgrades.
Awww... you got us. It really was more efficient for the guy who only wanted to spend 1 day training PI skills to produce 3 robotics every hour on his intermediate cc highsec plasma planet. Well done!
Thought so. You can't prove that it is more efficient, so you start with an attempt (badly) at an ad hominem attack. Go back to WOW where those things are taken as proof.
12 heads and 1 ECU uses 9200 powergrid
12 old extractors use 9200 powergrid
The extraction rates are comparable, maybe even more, with this new system. I get the same extraction rates with 3 heads that I used to get with 4 extractors, for example.
Anyway, the point is, if you are extracting on every planet, you are wasting grid on ECUs and only controlling 3-4 heads with each. It stands to reason that you should consolidate all your ECUs into one place, use all the head slots, and you can use the 'saved' powergrid to create more BIF/AIF in total (across all your planets).
Similarly, because you don't have long-ass links on every planet, your factory planets can use virtually 100% of their grid for factories. It's the combination of the two that makes it more efficient.
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Iodus
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Posted - 2011.01.19 01:36:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Turzyx
12 heads and 1 ECU uses 9200 powergrid
12 old extractors use 9200 powergrid
The extraction rates are comparable, maybe even more, with this new system. I get the same extraction rates with 3 heads that I used to get with 4 extractors, for example.
Anyway, the point is, if you are extracting on every planet, you are wasting grid on ECUs and only controlling 3-4 heads with each. It stands to reason that you should consolidate all your ECUs into one place, use all the head slots, and you can use the 'saved' powergrid to create more BIF/AIF in total (across all your planets).
Similarly, because you don't have long-ass links on every planet, your factory planets can use virtually 100% of their grid for factories. It's the combination of the two that makes it more efficient.
All you said is true if you were extracting only one resource per planet. Previous posters seem to assume that the only goal of PI is to specialize in the extraction of one resource or the production of one specific end product. That however is not the case and I don't see why I should suffer a system that penalizes me extravagantly for wanting to extract 2 or 3 different resources on the same planet.
Before the expansion, the extraction of more than one resource was penalized by the fact that you had to make a compromise in the quality of the deposits you wanted to exploit because you had to position yourself close to all the different resources. Therefore, you couldn't exploit that really rich base metals deposit because there weren't any felsic magma close-by for example. You also lost some MW/tf because of longer links.
The advantage however is that there was less hauling involved in the production of a given P2/P3 product because it could be produced on one planet and it also made the production of those goods available to players who spent less SP in PI.
Yes, specialization in the production of a single good is more effective, as a matter of fact, it was before the expansion. Now the advantage has just become outrageous and I could easily demonstrate how I lost about 40% production on most of my worlds because of the expansion.
I think the change has thrown the PI system out of balance and will force specialization upon everyone.
What I'm trying to understand and I would like to see someone answer, is why CCP thought it would be better to implement such a system? Why do they penalize the extraction of multiple resources on one planet so badly? How does this improve the game and my experience playing EVE?
Right now I'm really angry as I've spent a lot of time and much hard earned ISK setting up a system of planets that was very efficient, not in the sense that it produced the absolute maximum number of P3 or P4 goods, but in the sense that it achieved exactly the goal I had of producing different goods at a set interval of time that was convenient for me.
Now instead of getting a system that makes my life easier and my experience more enjoyable, I get a nightmare. Yes we now have the option of setting our own extraction deadlines which is nice, but now I have to redesign my whole 6 planets (and I feel for those with many alts who had a much greater number of planets), I will probably need to rebuy all my command centers as I will probably need to switch planets or move their locations.
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Zin Bloodjin
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Posted - 2011.01.19 01:56:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Zin Bloodjin on 19/01/2011 01:56:47
Originally by: Two Shots
Dear Amateur Planetary Interaction Users;
Making P2 or P3 products from scratch on a single planet has always been an inefficient use of character slots and planets.
It has always been more efficient to get a single P0->P1 reaction on a single planet, and then to produce P1->P2, or P1->P3 on separate planets.
If you were doing R0->P2, or R0->P3 on a single planet, then you were cutting yourself out of massive potential profits.
Complaining about your inability to no longer short-change yourself is foolish and it undermines my faith in human intelligence.
Please just conform to the new paradigm, which forces you to go along with more profitable avenues.
Thank you in advance,
Two Shots.
Dear condescending PI God;
A simple, meager passive income is all most PI users want. The rampant "foolishness" you refer to is evident on this very forum. These players do not wish to be taxed for transporting material A to planet Q, nor to they find transporting things in Eve to be fun in the slightest.
Assuming an air of superiority over the fact that you like watching virtual paint dry when level 4 missions pay better is foolish and it solidifies my love of delicious irony.
F you in hindsight,
Me
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Steelboat Lee
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Posted - 2011.01.19 02:02:00 -
[26]
Well if you say today's change I might agree, but making P2 is not "always" inefficient.
This is the picture I captured before.
http://tweetphoto.com/39396187
In 5 hours round this planet can produce 300 unit rocket fuel per day, also you need to have "clicking rampages" for 4 times on one day. If the averaged price of rocket fuel is 10k, then I can make 300x30x10000=90m per month. But this is the max output "used to be" in a single planet, you may not have time to click 4 times per day. The previos PI profit I think is fine, now the output would be lowred by 33%. Let's see the prodcut price going.
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Ephraim Glass
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Posted - 2011.01.19 02:05:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Iodus
I think the change has thrown the PI system out of balance and will force specialization upon everyone.
This was my first thought as well but I'm going to try a slightly modified approach to see if I can keep doing things roughly the way that I have been doing them. I'm running my extractors in 5.5 day cycles. Between cycles, I will switch the position of my drill heads to another material. Over the course of 3-5 cycles, I will extract large quantities of all of the different materials that I need. These are still feeding into my factories using the old rules that I set up under the old PI system. (Of course, I will change the rules if I find that they aren't working well.) After about a month, I expect to be producing all of the same goods I used to produce with as little wasted time and effort as before.
My opinion of the change is neutral, leaning negative. I think that this is going to require more micro-management and possibly more hauling on my part. Like some of the other posters that have spoken up, PI is NOT really a source of income for me, but a source of materials. I want it to do its thing in the background as much as possible without me having to fiddle with it.
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Umega
Solis Mensa
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Posted - 2011.01.19 03:03:00 -
[28]
Shut..
..up..
...op.
Let all the childern complain if they can't figure out the long term benefits of this new PI extraction method implemented. The less planet-poop per planet, the more PI rage quitters that are too stupid or unable to adapt to change.. the more profits per material for the people that do get it and adjust their planets properly, all via a less mindnumbing and dare I say more entertaining method.
Anyone complaining it isn't how they want it.. that's some tough ****. I made some peanut butter cookies.. they didn't turn out how I wanted them too. I guess I better go ***** out my oven, demand compensation from the flour and sugar companies, and crush a peanut in anger.. cause surely it is has nothing to do with me...
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Treat the EVE markets like you are its Pimp.. it is your 'willing' employee to fondle n use n abuse as you please. |
Deandra Walran
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Posted - 2011.01.19 03:13:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Umega
Anyone complaining it isn't how they want it.. that's some tough ****. I made some peanut butter cookies.. they didn't turn out how I wanted them too. I guess I better go ***** out my oven, demand compensation from the flour and sugar companies, and crush a peanut in anger.. cause surely it is has nothing to do with me...
The thing is, you didn't bake any cookies. The baker (CCP) did and used sawdust instead of flour.
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Umega
Solis Mensa
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Posted - 2011.01.19 03:22:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Deandra Walran
Originally by: Umega
Anyone complaining it isn't how they want it.. that's some tough ****. I made some peanut butter cookies.. they didn't turn out how I wanted them too. I guess I better go ***** out my oven, demand compensation from the flour and sugar companies, and crush a peanut in anger.. cause surely it is has nothing to do with me...
The thing is, you didn't bake any cookies. The baker (CCP) did and used sawdust instead of flour.
Uhm.. no. The analogy is simply that CCP gave you ingredients.. now go bake what you want from those ingredients in whatever manner you see fit. Just because you may fail.. when others succeed, you should question yourself instead of the ingredients.
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Treat the EVE markets like you are its Pimp.. it is your 'willing' employee to fondle n use n abuse as you please. |
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