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Trendy Man
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Posted - 2011.01.18 21:22:00 -
[1]
Not a manip atempt, just pointing the obvious.
There are a lot of complaints already in the S&I about lower production rate of PI materials.
Time to stockpile I guess. |
Manipulation Attempt
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Posted - 2011.01.18 21:35:00 -
[2]
I agree. Now that we have an easier time with PI and more people are doing it people with too much isk should buy some to make more isk.
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Bruce Carraway
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Posted - 2011.01.18 21:38:00 -
[3]
BUY BUY BUY!!!!!!!
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2011.01.18 21:44:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Manipulation Attempt I agree. Now that we have an easier time with PI and more people are doing it people with too much isk should buy some to make more isk.
Something tells me you're not going to be amongst those making a profit this expansion.
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Fulbert
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.18 23:15:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Fulbert on 18/01/2011 23:18:11
Originally by: Trendy Man Not a manip atempt, just pointing the obvious.
There are a lot of complaints already in the S&I about lower production rate of PI materials
Production will not drop that's wrong. On 3 of my 4 highsec planets i'm actually extracting more ressources than yesterday, on a 23h timer. Why? Because PI changes are incredibly friendly for people who used the basic setup with only extractors, basic industry and launching pad. But it's a violent nerfbat hit for all setups with more than one resource type extracted (ie: plasma planet setups)
Actually, all players should be able to extract even more P0 or P1s from planets. But now, we have to extract and manufacture on separate planets. PI is more about logistics than before. Transformation costs will increase - but now, lazy 0.0/WH guys will no longer manufacture P2 and P3s (ie: robotics), they will focus on P1s and sell them at low costs. And of course they will not extract craploads of P1 in 0.0 to haul it in empire.
Conclusions : - base materials (P0 and P1) may certainly increase, then stabilize (more players will focus on planet mining, especially in empire) - processed materials may increase because of logistics - as a result, P2/P3/P4 prices will certainly increase, but not P1s. -------------------------------- Fulbert. Miner - Industrialist |
Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.18 23:39:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Fulbert Edited by: Fulbert on 18/01/2011 23:18:11
Originally by: Trendy Man Not a manip atempt, just pointing the obvious.
There are a lot of complaints already in the S&I about lower production rate of PI materials
Production will not drop that's wrong. On 3 of my 4 highsec planets i'm actually extracting more ressources than yesterday, on a 23h timer. Why? Because PI changes are incredibly friendly for people who used the basic setup with only extractors, basic industry and launching pad. But it's a violent nerfbat hit for all setups with more than one resource type extracted (ie: plasma planet setups)
Actually, all players should be able to extract even more P0 or P1s from planets. But now, we have to extract and manufacture on separate planets. PI is more about logistics than before. Transformation costs will increase - but now, lazy 0.0/WH guys will no longer manufacture P2 and P3s (ie: robotics), they will focus on P1s and sell them at low costs. And of course they will not extract craploads of P1 in 0.0 to haul it in empire.
Conclusions : - base materials (P0 and P1) may certainly increase, then stabilize (more players will focus on planet mining, especially in empire) - processed materials may increase because of logistics - as a result, P2/P3/P4 prices will certainly increase, but not P1s.
You seem confused.
TL:DR for anyone interested on the new PI is that most prices should go up.
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Drak Dresari
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Posted - 2011.01.19 00:31:00 -
[7]
I sure look forward buying billions worth of robotics and help price rise along with the rest of the robotic community. I will need your help on this. Hopefully, robotic should hit 100k in the next 2 month since those WH pump and dump should stop flooding the market. 100k is an arbitrary number ofc, but every one need to fuel their pos and there is scores of drones lost every day that need to be replace. Too bad for those scared people who sold their stockpile before the patch, i got some of your stuff in my hangar now.
TY CCP for making us even richer than before. And yes, this is a manipulation attempt on the side obviously.
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Liberty Eternal
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Posted - 2011.01.19 00:36:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Drak Dresari I sure look forward buying billions worth of robotics and help price rise along with the rest of the robotic community. I will need your help on this. Hopefully, robotic should hit 100k in the next 2 month since those WH pump and dump should stop flooding the market. 100k is an arbitrary number ofc, but every one need to fuel their pos and there is scores of drones lost every day that need to be replace. Too bad for those scared people who sold their stockpile before the patch, i got some of your stuff in my hangar now.
TY CCP for making us even richer than before. And yes, this is a manipulation attempt on the side obviously.
Shh! Don't talk about it or everyone will start manufacturing them. If you really think it's going up to 100k then you should keep quiet about it to keep this wonderful opportunity to yourself
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.19 00:47:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Liberty Eternal
Shh! Don't talk about it or everyone will start manufacturing them. If you really think it's going up to 100k then you should keep quiet about it to keep this wonderful opportunity to yourself
Maybe he wants cheap robotics so he can buy them up to resell later
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Kharylien
Gallente Masked Rider Project
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Posted - 2011.01.19 02:41:00 -
[10]
Actually, I think it's a buff to people who want to produce higher-level commodities on a single-planet setup - IF they're willing to put more work into that.
So how that will play out in prices, I have no idea.
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Tea Partier
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Posted - 2011.01.19 06:11:00 -
[11]
I think prices will rise due to the changes:
-Extraction rate given is just an estimate and not the actual rate. You think you got your bases covered only to find out you are no longer running at 100%, but at 70-80% -ECU's have to be routed and require an upgraded link in order to get material to move to the launchpad if you have any decent rate of extraction -The complete screw up of carefully planned industrial chains. I use 25 CC's and I'm looking at a good 1-2 weeks of retooling just to get back to where I was if I even can. -No explanation or how-to from CCP recently. Listen, I know you hate re-doing old content and the constant *****ing about everything, but you really need to get ahead of these issues. FFS, where are the introduction videos like last time? -PI now becomes the only industrial activity that actually benefits from using a team outside of boosted mining since you can only field 1 ECU on most CC's. Like most non-warfare activities, it will still be a one-man operation. -The most lucrative PI products will still mostly be POS related
I expect POS prices to crash further hurting P3-P4 PI mats. I expect PI prices to rise till they oscillate between an equilibrium within 3-5 months. I expect ice related POS fuels to take a slight dip unless the mass banning of macro's happens. I expect to see a website that lists planets' hot spots and locations using a toon with 5/5 planetology skills.
What I would like to see is an expensive tool that could do a planet scan for you for a price with some ammo related feature to prevent abuse.
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Londo Cebb
Official Market Discussions Troll
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Posted - 2011.01.19 06:26:00 -
[12]
I concur!
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Alpha Constructor
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Posted - 2011.01.19 07:35:00 -
[13]
wow, i just restarted my other 2 char's planets (5 each) and from what i can see after a 12 hrs part of 24hrs cycles: ffs-> the hotspots moved within that time to a degree that my extractorheads get about 10% less... at least 10, maybe even 15% on an average!
so, a) yep, most will do 14 days of extraction-cycles if they are non-industrialist and more importantly b) costs will have to rise for people will have to move their extraction-hub-thingy and eventually have to redo all their building due to that main-tripple-or-more-upgraded link to buffer
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Alice Celadon
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Posted - 2011.01.19 08:06:00 -
[14]
Meh. I think supply will increase in the short term, but in the long term PI will fall back into disuse and prices will rise almost to pre-incursion levels.
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Petyr Baelich
Valar Morghulis. Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2011.01.19 09:22:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Alice Celadon Meh. I think supply will increase in the short term, but in the long term PI will fall back into disuse and prices will rise almost to pre-incursion levels.
You're totally wrong, but you have an awesome portrait.
Valar Morghulis is recruiting. |
Pohbis
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2011.01.19 12:01:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Fulbert Production will not drop that's wrong. On 3 of my 4 highsec planets i'm actually extracting more ressources than yesterday, on a 23h timer.
I suggest you actually check the amount of P0 that goes into you launchpad. Instead of blindly trusting the numbers the ECU program gives you ;)
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Meryl Lazard
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Posted - 2011.01.19 13:43:00 -
[17]
Why would PI be on the rise if they made it easier to do and the liklihood that more people are now going to do it because it is easier? It would make more sense that the value of PI stuff would drop to the floor. What am I missing?
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Omnara
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Posted - 2011.01.19 14:08:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Meryl Lazard Why would PI be on the rise if they made it easier to do and the liklihood that more people are now going to do it because it is easier? It would make more sense that the value of PI stuff would drop to the floor. What am I missing?
That some people have invested heavy in PI mats and will QQ if you do not buy it up now thinking you will profit from it.
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heheheh
Phoenix Club
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Posted - 2011.01.19 14:28:00 -
[19]
From what i have seen in game alot of people are clueless about the new system and dont know how to get it going too.
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Berikath
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Posted - 2011.01.19 14:44:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Tea Partier
I expect POS prices to crash further hurting P3-P4 PI mats. I expect PI prices to rise till they oscillate between an equilibrium within 3-5 months.
Wut?
"I expect materials costs for POSes will go up, but the end-product cost will drop"
So, you're saying you expect people to continually produce POSes at a huge loss?
.... someone's gonna be disappointed.
*** [ SIG] ***
Wish list for PI:
*One-click input routing *Copy product, inputs & outputs in factories *Launchpad upgrades: twice the space, twice the cost, half the hassle! [ /sig ] |
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2011.01.19 14:59:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Berikath
Originally by: Tea Partier
I expect POS prices to crash further hurting P3-P4 PI mats. I expect PI prices to rise till they oscillate between an equilibrium within 3-5 months.
Wut?
"I expect materials costs for POSes will go up, but the end-product cost will drop"
So, you're saying you expect people to continually produce POSes at a huge loss?
.... someone's gonna be disappointed.
This is still the game where people think that what they mine is free. EvE has quasi-realistic economy and capitalism. This means that there need to be thousands of idiots happily undersell labor for the few to profit. And there are, oh if there are.
To some it took of 3 minutes to figure out what will happen and how the new system will deliver vs the old. To others it'll take a month, till a video will exactly tell them where to place each pin. The "month" people are the majority. They will be tapped and abused by those who took 3 minutes. As it has always been the case, as it will happen since ever and forever. - Auditing & consulting
When looking for investors, please read http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h + http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Aureus
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Posted - 2011.01.19 15:46:00 -
[22]
Man, I wish I understood this. I didn't get into PI prior to the patch but from what I gathered you could get a Plasma planet and get a full production cycle from base materials up to Robotics on it, right? And now after patch you cannot do this anymore? Why not?
You need what now, at least two planets?
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Von Kroll
Caldari Kroll's Legion
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Posted - 2011.01.19 15:46:00 -
[23]
I'm getting much higher extraction rates on my extraction planets. So much so that now my production planet, even with 20 processors, doesn't have enough capacity to process all my materials. Before the patch, it was balanced or had a tad bit of excess production capacity.
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Funesta
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Posted - 2011.01.19 16:16:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Aureus Man, I wish I understood this. I didn't get into PI prior to the patch but from what I gathered you could get a Plasma planet and get a full production cycle from base materials up to Robotics on it, right? And now after patch you cannot do this anymore? Why not?
You need what now, at least two planets?
It's a combination of "oh no, I have to think for myself, the formula doesn't work anymore!" and inefficiency.
It was always less efficient to do it this way. Specializing a planet to extract or to manufacture makes the best use of your resources.
Now, the suboptimal setup became so suboptimal that you can't run it anymore according to the standard robotics formula.
What most people haven't realized yet is that they could keep their robotics planets mostly intact while running only one or two ECU. The ECU are much more flexible than the old extractors - you can change what they extract. What you'd do is extract two resources, set up your processors to deal with those resources, stock up the relevant p2 that you're creating. Then, the next time you start your ECUs, you switch them to the other two resources, and switch your processors as well. Once you've got an initial stockpile built up, there should be no real difference in final robotics outputs. Plus you still don't have to haul or think very hard.
This setup is also nice in that you don't have to worry about hotspots moving - by the time you come back to the first two resources, the old hotspots will have likely returned and you can place your extractors where you had them originally.
It's still suboptimal, but I imagine it'll be the new PI robotics formula soon.
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Corozan Aspinall
Party Time Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.19 16:28:00 -
[25]
I just can't be bothered with it tbh. It took hours to get all my planets setup the first time (and a wad of isk), logistics was a nightmare out in low sec and null. Now I have to redo them all and its more fiddly (but less tedious) than before. And prices will go down sharply thanks to greater proliferation of P1 and P2?
No ta.
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Caldariftw123
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Posted - 2011.01.19 18:38:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Caldariftw123 on 19/01/2011 18:40:00
Originally by: Meryl Lazard Why would PI be on the rise if they made it easier to do and the liklihood that more people are now going to do it because it is easier? It would make more sense that the value of PI stuff would drop to the floor. What am I missing?
What you are missing is what people have said, so try reading what has been said ..
They haven't made it easier, all they have done is removed the need to make lots and lots of clicks to restart extractors. What you have in place now is a more complex system to set up, variable extraction rates and LOWER extraction rates (check what you actually get at the end of a cycle) in most cases, more hauling than before if you try to run a full production chain as you need to use more planets now and that chain will produce less end products than before. It CAN be done by moving your extractors and more micro-management, by extracting one resource then the other in turn, rather than trying to do all 4 at once say. This, as well as more hauling that may be involved, removes any semblance of 'semi-afk activity' which is what the really heavy PI producers did, and those people that just do it in passing, a couple planets at most maybe, well they don't contribute much and will contribute even less now compared to before with the new system ..
If PI doesn't go up in price I'll eat my own arm.
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menacemyth
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Posted - 2011.01.19 18:53:00 -
[27]
Despite the changes made with incursion, I think the bigger picture for PI hasn't changed. Stockpiles of P2 and P3 mats are continuing to deplete. Eventually they will reach an equilibrium point when they can be produced at a profit. That will in turn increase the price of all PI products.
I say in short term, P0 and P1 decrease in price. Medium-term all increase, with an inevitable spike coming within 6 months. Long-term all PI will double unless pilots stop buying POSs and SoV structures.
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SellOrder Forum
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Posted - 2011.01.19 19:10:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Caldariftw123
If PI doesn't go up in price I'll eat my own arm.
This. Your arm is safe
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Kaya Divine
Gallente Kittens Factory
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Posted - 2011.01.19 19:27:00 -
[29]
With current Dodixie prices, with this changes my profit would increase by 5x not only because I can forget about 5hrs cycles but because all changes. In another words, volume should be blamed, and with higher volume I cant see how prices can raise.
Shoot your shot... |
Atheos Drifter
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Posted - 2011.01.19 23:48:00 -
[30]
p0 will go up as well, the new system favors extracting p0 and also makes the hot spot disappear quite fast if you very effective at it ... so go ahead and stockpile
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