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Kartzi
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Posted - 2011.01.21 14:17:00 -
[1]
Hello everyone,
I'm currently flying a Harbinger, doing level 3 missions with ease.
I am considering moving to a battleship, specifically - an Apocalypse.
I have about 3 million SP and can use some T2 modules such as capacitor recharges & damage controls.
Would you recommend getting an Apocalypse at this point or waiting a bit longer?
Thanks!
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Dark Pangolin
Caldari
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
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Posted - 2011.01.21 14:45:00 -
[2]
You may not want to hear this but i suggest training for a Raven (which will be relatively pain free) and using that in lieu of an Apoc. An Apoc can work but the raven really makes the lvl4 missions easy...you can choose damage, you have excellent range with cruise missiles...etc etc...
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Echo Mande
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Posted - 2011.01.21 14:50:00 -
[3]
I'd advise getting amarr battleship 4 and large energy turret 4 before getting into a battleship. Getting all gunnery support skills to 4, the ability to use a full T2 tank and some levels of advanced weapons upgrades is probably not over the top.
The apoc itself is a good battleship especially at range. You'll probably want to use pulse lasers for your missions. Alternately for more tank you could consider using the Abaddon, again with pulses.
Were I you I would consider using your new battleship to do a bunch more level 3s. You'll pretty much steamroller them but it should show you the basics before you move up to level 4s.
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Kartzi
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Posted - 2011.01.21 14:52:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Dark Pangolin
You may not want to hear this but i suggest training for a Raven (which will be relatively pain free) and using that in lieu of an Apoc. An Apoc can work but the raven really makes the lvl4 missions easy...you can choose damage, you have excellent range with cruise missiles...etc etc...
Thanks for the response Dark.
I know all of the above, maybe I should have made the question a bit more generic.
The actual question here is should i even think of a BS at this time or wait a bit more and train before moving into one?
Thanks. |
Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS
IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2011.01.21 14:55:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Dark Pangolin
You may not want to hear this but i suggest training for a Raven (which will be relatively pain free) and using that in lieu of an Apoc. An Apoc can work but the raven really makes the lvl4 missions easy...you can choose damage, you have excellent range with cruise missiles...etc etc...
in amarr space I'd stick with the apoc.
Originally by: Echo Mande
I'd advise getting amarr battleship 4 and large energy turret 4 before getting into a battleship. Getting all gunnery support skills to 4, the ability to use a full T2 tank and some levels of advanced weapons upgrades is probably not over the top.
The apoc itself is a good battleship especially at range. You'll probably want to use pulse lasers for your missions. Alternately for more tank you could consider using the Abaddon, again with pulses.
Were I you I would consider using your new battleship to do a bunch more level 3s. You'll pretty much steamroller them but it should show you the basics before you move up to level 4s.
bs4 and large turret 4 are good skills, not needed but highly recommended, t2 scout drones are also nice.
I'm trying to think about how an apoc would work in level 3s. pulse fit it would probably do pretty well, but imo better off in level 4s 
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Kartzi
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Posted - 2011.01.21 14:57:00 -
[6]
Thanks for the input and tips, Echo.
Chainsaw, I'm still a bit afraid of level 4's... lemme get my confidence up in a BS on 3's before i go into 4's 
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Joss56
Gallente
Unleashed' Fury
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Posted - 2011.01.21 15:09:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Joss56 on 21/01/2011 15:15:56
Originally by: Dark Pangolin
You may not want to hear this but i suggest training for a Raven (which will be relatively pain free) and using that in lieu of an Apoc. An Apoc can work but the raven really makes the lvl4 missions easy...you can choose damage, you have excellent range with cruise missiles...etc etc...
This would be the best advice if the guy was currently training gallente but training amarr he did a very good choice in my opinion.
Scorch-Apoc's are far from being ridiculous in lvl4's and if someday he wants to crosstrain for fun (and not because he must has gallente pilots) then matar would be a nice choice for those hard hitting beasts of pirates bs's like the Baahlgorn.
For the meanwhile with 3M sp it's a little short, keep training your energy/mechanic to reinforce your tank and fit abilities. Then go stright for scout drones t2, you'll need them to get rid of scumfrigs and some cruisers. For everything else over 20km to 50 your scorch pulses T2 will do miracles.
________________________________________________
"You do realise you live on a globe, right? And that there places outside the USA/UK?"
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Dark Pangolin
Caldari
Four Horsemen of the Apocalypse
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Posted - 2011.01.21 15:10:00 -
[8]
I have used the Abaddon in lvl4s for the Khanid navy in Amarr/Khanid space and it works fine. I find it to be a little slower that I would like and not as easy to learn to use as a shield tanked ship but it works great. The apoc would have a bit less tank but better engagement range.
As the other folks above mentioned I would use any BS you choose to get into in lvl 3's first. With proper research (use the internet to find which rats you're fighting and what damage they do/are vulnerable to) you should be perfectly ok in any level 3, and most level 4s. Just seach on battleclinic for a PVE mission fit to give you ideas. You should get BS and Large weapons to lvl4, it wont take that long, and you should get your tank to all T2 fittings, its worth it! I really dont think you need T2 drones but they help. T1 drones should be good enough to keep most little frigs off your back, but getting the drone skills up really REALLY makes a difference in how fast you chew through frigs/cruisers with your drones while your big BS guns punch through the NPC BSs and BCs.
So in conclusion, BS lvl 4, Large Wepon lvl 4, Support Skills to lvl 4, All T2 Active Tank.
And one more time I would recommend using the Raven if you are going to mission in a BS, especially if this is your first time. The Raven is a VERY forgiving mission ship. Especially since your shield booster will heal you up as soon as you hit it, and if you really want to you can fit 2 small guns in the highs along with you cruise missiles to help you deal with small ships until your drone skills are up to par.
There is an excellent starter fit on battle-clinic (just sort my most popular of all time for the raven)
Have fun and enjoy shooting those rats!
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Kartzi
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Posted - 2011.01.21 15:26:00 -
[9]
Thanks everyone for your tips and advice! |
REiiGN15
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.21 16:17:00 -
[10]
I'm like you. I have around 3.6 million SP and I'm still running around my drake doing lvl 3s. However, and it seems it could be a waste but I own every Battlecruiser there is of all races(Tech I) and can fly them all. But like most have suggested, I'm not moving to BS til I'm well good and ready. I'd like to be able to fit all tech II on all the stuff I have so it will be easier to make BS stuff tech II. I understand its going to take me a loong time.
=================================================
What is right is not always popular, and what is popular is not always right. |
Tusen Takk
BlackHole Surfers
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Posted - 2011.01.21 17:00:00 -
[11]
amarrian BSs are good against sansha and blood raiders, otherwise its hard to tank the random L4 with guristas/roguedrones/EoM
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Pod Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.21 17:04:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Kartzi
Hello everyone,
I'm currently flying a Harbinger, doing level 3 missions with ease.
I am considering moving to a battleship, specifically - an Apocalypse.
I have about 3 million SP and can use some T2 modules such as capacitor recharges & damage controls.
Would you recommend getting an Apocalypse at this point or waiting a bit longer?
Thanks!
Pod |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
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Posted - 2011.01.21 17:04:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Tusen Takk
amarrian BSs are good against sansha and blood raiders, otherwise its hard to tank the random L4 with guristas/roguedrones/EoM
Erm. They're pretty much de rigueur against Rogue Drones as well last I checked. Hard(er) to tank but you're doing exactly the right damage type. Pretty good on Mercs as well. It's Guristas and Angels that you really have to worry about.
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Thorian Baalnorn
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Posted - 2011.01.21 17:17:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Kartzi
The actual question here is should i even think of a BS at this time or wait a bit more and train before moving into one?
Thanks.
Support skills make a lot of difference especially on Amarr. It sucks waiting but you will probably struggle until you get good support skills. Caldari missile boats are a bit more forgiving. I have flown Ravens for quite some time. They kind of suck. Good for guristas and ok if you move around( regions) a lot. More of a jack of all trades.
If you going to be doing missions mainly in amarr/Amatarr space i would stick with the Amarr ships. I fly BS in both and if i have a choice of amarr or caldari for killing em/therm weak rats either in belts or missions i use Amarr ships without hesitation. T2 guns and cap,PG, CPU skills at 5 are almost a necessity to fly Amarr BSs effectively.
Quote:
have used the Abaddon in lvl4s for the Khanid navy in Amarr/Khanid space and it works fine. I find it to be a little slower that I would like and not as easy to learn to use as a shield tanked ship but it works great. The apoc would have a bit less tank but better engagement range.
Armor tank it. 3 Rat spec active hardeners, 1 repper, 3 sinks, T2 mega pulse (at level 5s against sansha): 98k EHP, 531 dps tank, 1074 dps @ 15km optimal AND 890 dps @ 50km
with aggro management you should be be fine. Dont need a lot of tank when you can project 850-900 DPS out to 50 KM.
Quote:
I'm like you. I have around 3.6 million SP and I'm still running around my drake doing lvl 3s. However, and it seems it could be a waste but I own every Battlecruiser there is of all races(Tech I) and can fly them all. But like most have suggested, I'm not moving to BS til I'm well good and ready.
Support skills are always a better ( time)investment than actual ship skills when your young. Pick a couple of ships and focus on those to build up money. Get the support skills up and then skilling up ships is mostly a matter of training for the ship itself and its weapon systems.
this game doesnt really start to shine till you hit about 12-18 months old and have most of your support skills at 5. I use to rat in a raven, took me 5-10 minutes to kill 3 BS rats. After i switched to Amarr and started using a baddon i was killing the first BS rat @ 40-50 km before i could get a lot on the frigs( I lock everything at once).
I flew the crappy raven until i had good support skills and that made the switch to amarr BSes rather short and mostly painless. It is better to focus on one race and the support skills for it, then work out from their. Trying to train all 4 races at once means training all weapons at once ( i have like 8 mil SP in gunnery and 3 mil in missiles and i am not even 1/2 way to be proficient in every turret type.) You will be able to dabble a bit in everything but be good at nothing.
It is best to focus on your basic support skills, armor or shield tanking, and 1 weapon system and become proficient in that as well as 1 or two ship classes that use that specific weapon and ship to earn isk while skilling to the next ship.
I found the best way to do this is to:
1) pick the next ship you want to fly.
2)Fit it on EFT at all level 5s how you would fit at all level 5s.
3) Copy to clipboard on EFT import to Evemon. Use that as your training plan.
4) Take note of the skills you need but dont need at 5. Train all the skills to level needed to fly the ship the way it is fitted.
5) Adjust your fit so it works with your skill level( if needed because it may not fit if you dont have all skills at 5 even though you have all skills to the level needed to use the ship as setup)
6) Finish training any of the skills you trained to fly the setup to level 4 or 5( i usually go 4 for secondary ( advanced)weapon skills and a few other long train skills that give a marginal bonus)
7) Refit with your original pwnmobile fit.( it should fit now)
8) Rinse and repeat.
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Thorian Baalnorn
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Posted - 2011.01.21 17:37:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Thorian Baalnorn on 21/01/2011 17:38:10
continued.....
The more ships you do like this, the less you will have to train for the next setup. Skilling up for a pimped out harby and then moving into an Amarr BS you will find yourself training mostly weapon and ship skills and not much else. Going from being efficient in a harby to efficient in a baddon would be something like:
Large energy turrets level 1-5: 22-27 days(est)
Large Pulse Specialization 1-4: 4-5 days (est)
Amarr BS levels 1-4: 4-5 days(est) Amarr BS level 5: 33-40 days(est)
All other support skills should be at level 4 or 5 already.
So to go from a harby to a baddon and be good in the baddon would take about 30-35 days of training and another month would get you amarr BS 5 and open the door to Amarr cap ships.
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Khanh'rhh
Caldari
Chaos Theory Exploration
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Posted - 2011.01.21 18:08:00 -
[16]
Kartzi,
If you listened to every piece of advice given to you on the forums, you'd never fly anything other than a T1 frigate with less than 15mil SP.
My advice is to start running level IV's right now. The best way of seeing your shortcomings is to actually try one, and see the problem.
NPC BS's tanking you?
Capping out?
Tank failing?
Each problem has a different solution... and each mission will present different problems.
I started running IV's before I could even fit large projectiles to my Maelstrom .. and I never came close to losing my ship. Sure, it took a while for each mission, but my ISK/hr (if you care for such measurements) was a lot higher on IV's than III's even then. Bounties are loads higher .. and the loot / salvage starts to become worth something.
I now have a mere 3mil SP - and can comfortably run them all (bonus rooms & World's Collide aside) .. though some benefit from a helping hand.
My advice?
a) Start doing them .. what's to lose?
b) Find a friend or two and co-op the missions. Eve is multiplayer, afterall.
c) Loot and salvage for great rewards.
D) Stick clear of the Raven. It may be effective and simple to fly .. but that makes it boring fast. There's a reason the botters are in Ravens.
e) All the advice above RE: skills is right - all will make your mission running faster and more effective. I would argue less fun, though  - missions were only fun for me when I could barely survive .. now they're all a bit boring.
Also, I'll get flamed to death for the above post, as some mission runners hate to think a 6 week old character is running the same missions as them ... but meh, let them.
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The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.21 18:10:00 -
[17]
Start with a Apoc, switch to the Abaddon with better skills. Wait at least till large lasers 4, BS 4 and cap+tank skills that make the Harb running very smooth level 3 mission(shouldn't be a issue at all).
Originally by: Tusen Takk
amarrian BSs are good against sansha and blood raiders, otherwise its hard to tank the random L4 with guristas/roguedrones/EoM
Wrong, I used a med repper + 2 Hardner tank for next to any L4. Drone and EoM missions are particular easy in a amarr BS. Angels and Guristas are a bit more annoying because of her high resists, but still not really hard.
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Thorian Baalnorn
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Posted - 2011.01.21 18:17:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Thorian Baalnorn on 21/01/2011 18:17:08
opps wrong button editing
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Joss56
Gallente
Unleashed' Fury
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Posted - 2011.01.21 18:28:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Joss56 on 21/01/2011 18:28:55
Originally by: Tusen Takk
amarrian BSs are good against sansha and blood raiders, otherwise its hard to tank the random L4 with guristas/roguedrones/EoM
Don't think so, and some bs's have +5all resists per lvl, so I can't see how harder is for amarrian battleships to tank those than I with my wallente hybridsucks boat.
Those with passive resist bonus are realy awesome, free extra tank.
Get some passive faction platings and you'll have more power to something else, francly if you want to try the Hard-mode [stuff] try gallente 
________________________________________________
"You do realise you live on a globe, right? And that there places outside the USA/UK?"
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Mavnas
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Posted - 2011.01.21 18:31:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Dark Pangolin
You may not want to hear this but i suggest training for a Raven (which will be relatively pain free) and using that in lieu of an Apoc. An Apoc can work but the raven really makes the lvl4 missions easy...you can choose damage, you have excellent range with cruise missiles...etc etc...
You advise he spend a few months totally dumping his existing skills? Other than cap skills, what overlap is there between an armor tanked laser ship and a shield tanked missile ship? Not to mention of course that the raven would be a terrible choice vs. for Sanshas/BR which is probably what his missions will throw at him.
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Mavnas
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Posted - 2011.01.21 18:36:00 -
[21]
But for some advice:
Faced with the same dilemma, I decided to stick to medium sized ships until I could fly them much better. I did however go towards T2 and T3 ships on all my alts. This char now does L4s in a Nighthawk, and will continue to do so until my support skills are all up and I can use T2 large cruise missiles or torps. Well, I might switch to Tengu.
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Feikno
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Posted - 2011.01.21 20:02:00 -
[22]
I went Harbinger -> Abaddon myself.
The Abaddon has a lot of faults, but if you like pushing your damage to the limit (without training a huge list of drone skills), the Abaddon is better than the Apoc.
The Apocalypse will run things slower, but easier. You can fit a very impressive tank, and have decent range with short range weapons on it. You will also next to never have many Capacitor issues with a Apocalypse.
I would maybe hold off until you can use T2 hardenrs, and T2 Large Reppers before going Battleship. You don't need T2 guns to fly level 4s.
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Kartzi
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Posted - 2011.01.21 20:39:00 -
[23]
First of all, thanks to everyone for responding and sharing their advice and experience with me.
I've noticed there are some responses that speak of getting a BC to run level 3 smoothly.
I already am in a Harbinger (BC) and running level 3 missions with ease.
I asked specifically about an Apocalypse because I've read online that Abaddons have capacitor
Issues without a big bunch of SP's.
I do for now plan to stick to level 3's as I have gone to a few level 4's with a friend, I will most likely not be able to hit battleships in there hard enough, or fast enough before my tank fails to do level 4's yet.
Assuming my skills can keep my BC alive damn well in level 3 missions, wouldn't that be easier with an Apocalypse fitted similarly? |
The Djego
Minmatar
Hellequin Inc.
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Posted - 2011.01.21 20:55:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Kartzi
Assuming my skills can keep my BC alive damn well in level 3 missions, wouldn't that be easier with an Apocalypse fitted similarly?
Well sure, a BS can tank them easier(even if you will take some more damage since the BS is slower and got a higher sig). However you will have much more trouble to hit targets since large guns track around 3.5 times worse than mediums.
I did run some L3 with my first apoc years ago to get a feeling for the ship, however most of the time you will have to wait longer on your drones to finish up the firgs than the cruisers and BCs that you can track fine with puls(fit 2 TCs  ).
----
Nerf Tank - Boost Gank!
Originally by: Amantus
Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
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Kartzi
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Posted - 2011.01.21 21:00:00 -
[25]
Originally by: The Djego
Originally by: Kartzi
Assuming my skills can keep my BC alive damn well in level 3 missions, wouldn't that be easier with an Apocalypse fitted similarly?
Well sure, a BS can tank them easier(even if you will take some more damage since the BS is slower and got a higher sig). However you will have much more trouble to hit targets since large guns track around 3.5 times worse than mediums.
I did run some L3 with my first apoc years ago to get a feeling for the ship, however most of the time you will have to wait longer on your drones to finish up the firgs than the cruisers and BCs that you can track fine with puls(fit 2 TCs ).
The Apocalypse has the ability to use a missile launcher hardpoint or two... today I am using 6 lasers on my Harbinger and have 2 available high slots.
Apocalypse has 8 high slots as well, 2 of which can be used as launchers if i'm not mistaken...
Won't the missiles be able to handle everything else that my turrets can't track? |
Thorian Baalnorn
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Posted - 2011.01.21 22:34:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Kartzi
First of all, thanks to everyone for responding and sharing their advice and experience with me.
I've noticed there are some responses that speak of getting a BC to run level 3 smoothly.
I already am in a Harbinger (BC) and running level 3 missions with ease.
I asked specifically about an Apocalypse because I've read online that Abaddons have capacitor
Issues without a big bunch of SP's.
I do for now plan to stick to level 3's as I have gone to a few level 4's with a friend, I will most likely not be able to hit battleships in there hard enough, or fast enough before my tank fails to do level 4's yet.
Assuming my skills can keep my BC alive damn well in level 3 missions, wouldn't that be easier with an Apocalypse fitted similarly?
It has been a while since ive done missions, especially level 3s. If i recall it is faster to do level 3s in a BC because med size weapons are better suited to the mission rats you encounter there. You can do them in a BS but it may actually slow you down even if it puts out more dps( because less dps may be applied to the targets). Regardless you may want to do a couple level 3s in a BS to get a feel for it.
The baddon has poor cap regardless of your skills( i have near perfect skills for it and it is still touchy on cap for me) . Mostly because it uses 8 guns and gets no bonus to cap usage. So you either fit lots of cap modules or a cap booster and a few/ no cap modules.The baddon is a better ship for tanking and for putting out dps.
The problem with the apoc is it has the crappiest tank of the Amarr battleships. It shines as a sniper not a brawler. The geddon gets 8 low slots but suffers from cpu and PG problems if you try to use mega pulses. The baddon has 7 lows and because it doesnt get a cap bonus suffers cap problems.
So you have for your skill level:
Geddon: Good tanking, but fitting problems( even with max skills)
Apoc: Good range but poorish tanking skills.
Baddon: Good damage output and good tanking ability but cap problems( even with max skills)
I dont think you will be able to tank L4 missions solo in an apoc by yourself with your skills. Another problem is going to be range vs dps. Beams have longer range but crap dps as does non multi crystals and Pulse have good dps but crap range. T2 pulse fixes this with scorch good range and dps. Otherwise you have to AB in range( or MWD if your lucky) to shoot.
You just run into a lot of problem that are all fixable with skills unfortunately. With good skills you can do level 4s in any of the Amarr BSes. this is why most noobs go caldari for carebearing. Easier to use at low SP. But amarr is much better once you get the skills.
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Kartzi
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Posted - 2011.01.21 22:42:00 -
[27]
Alright then, i'll wait a bit longer for some more skills.
I should have most, if not all Standard Core certificates between 1 and 2 weeks.
That should put me in a different place with support skills. |
Zhilia Mann
Tide Way Out Productions
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Posted - 2011.01.21 23:02:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Kartzi
The Apocalypse has the ability to use a missile launcher hardpoint or two... today I am using 6 lasers on my Harbinger and have 2 available high slots.
Apocalypse has 8 high slots as well, 2 of which can be used as launchers if i'm not mistaken...
Won't the missiles be able to handle everything else that my turrets can't track?
Two problems here.
First, if you're only fitting six guns on a Harbinger you probably have some fitting skills to work on before seriously considering a battleship. You'll absolutely need to be able to at least get a tank on an Apocalypse and still have plenty of space for best named DHBs. DHBs aren't that great though; if you can you'll want megabeams. But to fit a full rack of those.... Pretty sure you'll want AWU5.
Not that you're required to fit all eight, but you're definitely passing up damage if you don't.
Which leads to the second problem: if you have eight turret hardpoints it's in your best interest to fit eight turrets. The reason is simple: you can only effectively add damage mods for a single weapon type. (Drones, lacking damage mods, are exempt and thus make an ideal secondary weapon system -- especially when you realize half of them are designed to murder small ships.)
So while you could throw in a few, say, assault missile launchers on your Apoc, you'll be giving up nearly 25% of your total damage output if you do. And that means it will take you at least 30% longer to bring down BSs and will also reduce your effectiveness against BCs. Which means you have to tank more damage for longer. Which means you have to fit more tank, further reducing your damage output. All of which leads to longer mission completion times.
So no, fitting a few launchers isn't a great idea in an Apoc.
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Khanh'rhh
Caldari
Chaos Theory Exploration
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Posted - 2011.01.21 23:55:00 -
[29]
If you have an alt account, there's a nice way around the frigate / cruiser issue.
Simply train the alt to use a T1 frig very effectively and leave it the other side of the gate / cloaked whilst your BS takes out everything it can knock out rapidly.* Swap to the frigate when there's just stuff left it can munch through faster than your BS - frigates. For cruiser sized targets, you can use the frigate to tackle and target paint (a few Minmatar frigs have a bonus for the latter..) which makes your BS's guns do a lot more damage to their targets. By the time you meet your first "spider drone" you'll be grateful for anything that helps tracking.
I've never gone near an Amarrian ship, so I know not of their fitting, but on a few ships there's room to compromise slightly on the tank and fit a stasis webifier - if tanking isn't an issue on the mission, this may help. No need to "over tank" if some other modules could speed up the completion.
Fit the frigs cheaply, as there's always a chance your attention will be diverted and it'll be taken out. Though, I was quite amazed recently to see an assault frig tank World's Collide  - speed really helps!
*-check that one of these isn't the trigger (i.e. Blockade) as otherwise you may end up trying to tank multiple spawns .. which can end with a warp out panic!
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freshspree
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Posted - 2011.01.22 00:21:00 -
[30]
WAIT TILL U CAN USE A FULL FIT T2 TANK THAT IS REPAIR SYSTEMS 5 AND HULL UPGRADES 5 THEN YOU ARE TALKING M8. For amarr, u'll need BS to at least lvl4 because of the ridiculous cap needs of lazors. you also need all cap related skills to 5 or 4. My advice is to chill with lvl3s and wait till you have those skills. That way you won't end up losing many BSs. If u were caldari, a raven is pretty easy to fly but if u love amarr so much and want to stick with them. Take my advice and train this skills up ahead so you won't get this " battleships are useless kinda feeling " u need those capacitor skills trained. you can use the BS in lvl3s while your finish up your other skills so you can get a feel of it and know what's up.
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