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Turning off auto load of local character portraits?

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Herufaia	Posted - 2011.01.22 15:23:00 - [1] Be there a way to turn off the autolading of the character portraits in local chat Pre patch you had to "opt in" to autload (iirc) now you cannot even "opt out" I know ccp are rightly proud of their new character shots, but the novelty has grown old and is getting very stale If you in busy system the constant portrait loading of characters i have remotly no interest in viewing OH VOW! ITS ANOTHER BALD MIMNATAUR WITH SHADES! - is resource grabbing and annoying to the eye Please a tick to turn it off
Poeser Rufus	Posted - 2011.01.22 15:28:00 - [2] might wanna try make the folder containing the shots read only. don¦t know if the game puts them into Ram then, but sure it would not be able to save them to hdd anymore. should be somewhere in /cache/??? i¦m not at an eve pc right now, but might be worth a shot.
Rixiu Impetar	Posted - 2011.01.22 16:31:00 - [3] Block the image server? Probably forbidden though ^^ Seriously though, I don't see any reason why there isn't an option to turn of the automatic image gathering...
HighwayMan DhD Highwaymen	Posted - 2011.01.22 16:33:00 - [4] but i like your chin, All should be viewing it, wether they want to or not.
Bad Messenger draketrain	Posted - 2011.01.22 16:35:00 - [5] It has been CCP policy for a long time to make it harder to track player movements, these portraits are new addition to whole system.
BaliAgha Black Mesa Mavericks	Posted - 2011.01.22 16:36:00 - [6] Originally by: Rixiu Block the image server? Probably forbidden though ^^ Seriously though, I don't see any reason why there isn't an option to turn of the automatic image gathering... Simple really.. Since all avatars are loaded and stored on the server, having people click (queue) on portraits to load would require the server to 'fetch' or 'retrieve' the avatars your clicking. Having 40k people clicking on different avatars for the server to load would in turn have some negative affects on the server load. Since the default setting is the for server not to 'queue' or 'retrieve' something your clicking but rather be there in the first place is there to 'help' or 'speed' things along. Since I'm not apart of the CCP team and not 100% sure how they are coding this, I am NOT 100% sure that this is the EXACT case. [RKDST] Black Mesa Mavericks
Niveon	Posted - 2011.01.22 16:42:00 - [7] Don't be stupid, serving all images to all players causes more lag than having to process a few requests for a few pics from a few players. It affects CCP's servers' resources and each player's.
BaliAgha Black Mesa Mavericks	Posted - 2011.01.22 16:44:00 - [8] Originally by: Niveon Don't be stupid, serving all images to all players causes more lag than having to process a few requests for a few pics from a few players. It affects CCP's servers' resources and each player's. You are not a coder it seems, this statement makes absolutely no sense young one. [RKDST] Black Mesa Mavericks
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.22 16:50:00 - [9] Originally by: BaliAgha having people click (queue) on portraits to load would require the server to 'fetch' or 'retrieve' the avatars your clicking. So what you're saying is that having to 'fetch' all images as they appear in the local window takes less of a toll than having to 'fetch' only some (or no) imagesà Ehmà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki

Chribba Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire	Posted - 2011.01.22 16:57:00 - [10] I too do not want it to auto-load, it makes it harder to keep track of pilots. /c Secure 3rd party service \| my in-game channel 'Holy Veldspar'

BaliAgha Black Mesa Mavericks	Posted - 2011.01.22 17:00:00 - [11] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: BaliAgha having people click (queue) on portraits to load would require the server to 'fetch' or 'retrieve' the avatars your clicking. So what you're saying is that having to 'fetch' all images as they appear in the local window takes less of a toll than having to 'fetch' only some (or no) imagesà Ehmà No, having images there in the first place requires no 'loading' for you. In return does not put extra stress on the server. [RKDST] Black Mesa Mavericks
Blane Xero Amarr The Firestorm Cartel	Posted - 2011.01.22 17:00:00 - [12] Part of the problem is that the client no longer does the rendering. All it does now is request the images. _____________________________________ Haruhiist since December 2008
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.22 17:05:00 - [13] Edited by: Tippia on 22/01/2011 17:05:35 Originally by: BaliAgha No, having images there in the first place requires no 'loading' for you. In return does not put extra stress on the server. In order to "have the images there in the first place," they still have to be fetched from the server. Having to click to fetch them means you can choose not to fetch themà ever. Having to fetch more images than you are interested in certainly causes more stress on the server than only fetching the ones you want. Sure, once they're cached locally, it no longer matters, but why fetch and cache them to begin with if you have no need for them? ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
TimMc Brutal Deliverance Extreme Prejudice.	Posted - 2011.01.22 17:07:00 - [14] Originally by: BaliAgha Originally by: Niveon Don't be stupid, serving all images to all players causes more lag than having to process a few requests for a few pics from a few players. It affects CCP's servers' resources and each player's. You are not a coder it seems, this statement makes absolutely no sense young one. You must not be either, because your an idiot. If you look in local, the game is loading the faces you see - not all of them. Jita local would take an hour to load if it was autoloading everyone. Instead it is requesting what only the player can see at that time. There is no benefit here. Only shiny portraits.
BaliAgha Black Mesa Mavericks	Posted - 2011.01.22 17:19:00 - [15] Originally by: TimMc Originally by: BaliAgha Originally by: Niveon Don't be stupid, serving all images to all players causes more lag than having to process a few requests for a few pics from a few players. It affects CCP's servers' resources and each player's. You are not a coder it seems, this statement makes absolutely no sense young one. You must not be either, because your an idiot. If you look in local, the game is loading the faces you see - not all of them. Jita local would take an hour to load if it was autoloading everyone. Instead it is requesting what only the player can see at that time. There is no benefit here. Only shiny portraits. Again, its very simple.. What you see for portraits are already there, already loaded.. your not queuing the server to fetch what your clicking.. Please people.. if you have no idea how to code or how coding works.. stop trolling.. [RKDST] Black Mesa Mavericks
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.22 17:26:00 - [16] I thought whereas the images that you clicked used to be stored in your pc's cache, it's now just stored on CCPs side. Only your character portraits get stored in your cache, not the ones of other characters. Unless if you add them to your friends list etc. Not sure if that is how it works but it would make more sense.
Razin The xDEATHx Squadron Legion of xXDEATHXx	Posted - 2011.01.22 17:27:00 - [17] Delayed local would solve this. ...
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.22 17:29:00 - [18] Edited by: Tippia on 22/01/2011 17:35:24 Originally by: BaliAgha What you see for portraits are already there, already loaded.. your not queuing the server to fetch what your clicking. Already where? Already loaded for whom? Quote: Please people.. if you have no idea how to code or how coding works.. stop trolling.. àand if you don't know how caching works, don't try to tell people that more fetches are fewer than no fetches. Originally by: Forum Guy I thought whereas the images that you clicked used to be stored in your pc's cache, it's now just stored on CCPs side (without any need to click). Only your character portraits get stored in your cache, not the ones of other characters. Unless if you add them to your friends list etc. No, they're still cached locally, just like before. The main difference lies in where and how they're rendered (which among other things means that fetching and rendering an image does not lock the UI). What this new system does is to fetch, cache and load all faces you come across on the local list, rather than just fetch and cache the ones you click, and only load the ones you have cached. àand only storing them on CCP's end would have made this issue even worse ù every time you changed systems and every time you scrolled the local list, you would have to re-download all the images you saw. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
NiM Cal	Posted - 2011.01.22 17:40:00 - [19] Confirming I too find the autofetching irritating. I frequently play eve when traveling on a 3G connection, where usage costs, and it's something I could really live without... It's also hugely annoying keeping tabs of people in local, when hunting. Pre incursion, i'd quickly check the character sheet/load portrait of people in system (threat assesment), and know from the loaded faces who I had checked out. Now i've got to try and remember the face/name which is :effort: /support an option to disable it
Forum Guy	Posted - 2011.01.22 17:46:00 - [20] Originally by: NiM Cal Careful, you don't want to turn this into a petition, it'll just get locked.
Zhou Wuwang Federal Laboratories	Posted - 2011.01.22 17:51:00 - [21] Edited by: Zhou Wuwang on 22/01/2011 17:52:09 Autofetching portraits is pure hubris on CCP's part. It's bad for your system's performance. Thousands of tiny 4KB files added to your hardisk; useless reads and writes for little or no reward. On windows OS, setting the read only flag on folders is useless. You need to edit the access control list (ACL) under the folder's security tab. If you don't see it, your system is likely setup for "Use simple file sharing (recommended)" for instance in Windows XP. On my Windows 7 Pro, the tab is always visible. Anyway, by default you will notice the folder is setup for "Full Control". Depending on how you have your OS users and settings and folders for Eve, the short story is you want to set the permissions for the "cache/Pictures/Chat" folder to read only.
Diomedes Calypso	Posted - 2011.01.22 17:52:00 - [22] you can certainly just close the list of players. Does it fetch the images anyway if its closed? (and I wonder what it does if you minimize it?)
Zhou Wuwang Federal Laboratories	Posted - 2011.01.22 18:00:00 - [23] Edited by: Zhou Wuwang on 22/01/2011 18:00:51 Originally by: Diomedes Calypso you can certainly just close the list of players. Does it fetch the images anyway if its closed? (and I wonder what it does if you minimize it?) and who is going to close the list of players in local? Keep in mind these thousands of portrait files are going to effect anything that requires use of your file system. Virus checks, search, etc.
KerKnight Defenders of the Kernite	Posted - 2011.01.22 18:01:00 - [24] I have an SSD so loading portraits doesn't bother me.
Zhou Wuwang Federal Laboratories	Posted - 2011.01.22 18:06:00 - [25] Originally by: KerKnight I have an SSD so loading portraits doesn't bother me. So you must understand then how writes effect the performance and life of your solid state drive?
Antihrist Pripravnik 4S Corporation Morsus Mihi	Posted - 2011.01.22 18:11:00 - [26] Originally by: Diomedes Calypso you can certainly just close the list of players. Does it fetch the images anyway if its closed? (and I wonder what it does if you minimize it?) Local portrait icon folder Total files: 1,332 Total Folders: 100 Size: 1.60 MB Size on disk: 5.20 MB And that's only after visiting Jita once with local completely minimized. I find the lack of this option annoying too.
Iraherag	Posted - 2011.01.22 18:14:00 - [27] Originally by: BaliAgha Originally by: Rixiu Block the image server? Probably forbidden though ^^ Seriously though, I don't see any reason why there isn't an option to turn of the automatic image gathering... Simple really.. Since all avatars are loaded and stored on the server, having people click (queue) on portraits to load would require the server to 'fetch' or 'retrieve' the avatars your clicking. Having 40k people clicking on different avatars for the server to load would in turn have some negative affects on the server load. Since the default setting is the for server not to 'queue' or 'retrieve' something your clicking but rather be there in the first place is there to 'help' or 'speed' things along. Since I'm not apart of the CCP team and not 100% sure how they are coding this, I am NOT 100% sure that this is the EXACT case. That's easily the most confused posting I have seen in a very long time.
KerKnight Defenders of the Kernite	Posted - 2011.01.22 18:15:00 - [28] Originally by: Zhou Wuwang So you must understand then how writes effect the performance and life of your solid state drive? Intel SSDs have a rediculous lifetime anyway. It's a non-issue.
mkmin	Posted - 2011.01.22 18:51:00 - [29] Agreed. Another pointless change at the cost of the user experience just so CCP can touch themselves on those rare occasions they load the client.
Guillame Herschel Gallente NME1	Posted - 2011.01.22 18:58:00 - [30] Originally by: Tippia The main difference lies in where and how they're rendered (which among other things means that fetching and rendering an image does not lock the UI). This. Busy systems are much smoother now. Switching to a chat tab with a large number of players is much faster now. The UI lags less.
Missm Uppet Caldari	Posted - 2011.01.22 19:16:00 - [31] I'm with KerKnight - having an SSD and a good Internet connection makes this a non-issue and even adds to the game (especially for new players). However, I do agree that there should be an option to turn it off.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.22 19:40:00 - [32] Originally by: Missm Uppet I'm with KerKnight - having an SSD and a good Internet connection makes this a non-issue and even adds to the game (especially for new players). However, I do agree that there should be an option to turn it off. Loading and storing the things isn't so much an issue for me. It's the fact that I used to use people's portraits in local as a very clear indicator of having already investigated them when travelling through potentially hostile space. Calling up info on someone would load and cache the portrait, and I knew that here was someone I had looked at, but determined I didn't need to apply a standings tag to, and that I could move on to the next guy in the listà àand if that cached portrait kept showing up again and again in the systems I travelled through, it would indicate that he was possibly following me and was worth a second look. Sure, now we have a proper "neutral" standing for those kinds of things, but it seems like a huge waste to dedicate a slot in the contacts list for such a temporary piece of information (temporary because it's trivially easy to blow away the entire portrait cache and thus remove all these kinds of markers, compared to going through and deleting a crapton of temporary neutral contacts). ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Iraherag	Posted - 2011.01.22 20:09:00 - [33] Edited by: Iraherag on 22/01/2011 20:10:20 Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Missm Uppet I'm with KerKnight - having an SSD and a good Internet connection makes this a non-issue and even adds to the game (especially for new players). However, I do agree that there should be an option to turn it off. Loading and storing the things isn't so much an issue for me. It's the fact that I used to use people's portraits in local as a very clear indicator of having already investigated them when travelling through potentially hostile space. Calling up info on someone would load and cache the portrait, and I knew that here was someone I had looked at, but determined I didn't need to apply a standings tag to, and that I could move on to the next guy in the listà àand if that cached portrait kept showing up again and again in the systems I travelled through, it would indicate that he was possibly following me and was worth a second look. Sure, now we have a proper "neutral" standing for those kinds of things, but it seems like a huge waste to dedicate a slot in the contacts list for such a temporary piece of information (temporary because it's trivially easy to blow away the entire portrait cache and thus remove all these kinds of markers, compared to going through and deleting a crapton of temporary neutral contacts). Exactly. On top of that I think the users need more control over when things happen, not less. A reasonably sensible user will not trigger loading a picture without need in a high-load situation - A merciless "load when you see it" system will. It might not be much and it might not affect people with great computers and fast connections by much, but why throw such a basic principle (don't load data from the server unless it's necessary) out of the window now (that's rethorical - I know we're supposed to see all the great new avatars all the time)
Babel Utopian Research I.E.L. Hedonistic Imperative	Posted - 2011.01.22 20:24:00 - [34] Originally by: Chribba I too do not want it to auto-load, it makes it harder to keep track of pilots. This is wisdom ... for me it's definitely not about server stress. . All generalisations are false - Discuss.
Zhou Wuwang Federal Laboratories	Posted - 2011.01.22 20:44:00 - [35] Originally by: Guillame Herschel Originally by: Tippia The main difference lies in where and how they're rendered (which among other things means that fetching and rendering an image does not lock the UI). This. Busy systems are much smoother now. Switching to a chat tab with a large number of players is much faster now. The UI lags less. Whether the client or server renders the portrait is immaterial to the issue of downloading, writing and displaying all portraits. It isn't the fact that all portraits are immediately downloaded to our systems that makes the UI "lag less." The UI is faster because the portraits provided to the UI are rendered and cached on CCP's separate image server. The same image server you can access via a browser. That has nothing to do with downloading and displaying every character portrait you encounter. If you were to info a character and THEN only download the portrait that would still happen faster now because of CCP's server side render and cache -- your computer's cache of an empty silhouette is just as fast to display for the UI. I also doubt that the "I can't track people as well" argument is going to be effective with CCP. It's against their cultural nature to allow you a choice. They want to control what's best in their minds for the way you should play. They made the decision that tracking players isn't good for you. So downloading and displaying all the portraits supports their objective of hampering your ability to track people. I suspect you can only get this changed by demonstrating a technical issue.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.22 21:20:00 - [36] Originally by: Zhou Wuwang Whether the client or server renders the portrait is immaterial to the issue of downloading, writing and displaying all portraits. It isn't the fact that all portraits are immediately downloaded to our systems that makes the UI "lag less." It matters because it used to be a UI-blocking call; now it is not. It would certainly matter if the client had to render all portraits because of all the work that would have to be done in the background (or foreground, considering how some UI stuff is handled in EVE) to populate the local list. Quote: They want to control what's best in their minds for the way you should play. àyeah, apart from the whole "emergent gameplay" thing they like so much. ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
Princess Matarra	Posted - 2011.01.22 22:00:00 - [37] Originally by: NiM Cal Confirming I too find the autofetching irritating. I frequently play eve when traveling on a 3G connection, where usage costs, and it's something I could really live without... It's also hugely annoying keeping tabs of people in local, when hunting. Pre incursion, i'd quickly check the character sheet/load portrait of people in system (threat assesment), and know from the loaded faces who I had checked out. Now i've got to try and remember the face/name which is :effort: /support an option to disable it This. +1
Teranul	Posted - 2011.01.22 22:09:00 - [38] I, for one, appreciate that I no longer have to click-click-click-click-clickity-click just to see faces as opposed to a whole lot of nothing. Also appreciated is the fact that the UI no longer locks up. Win-win for me.
Dvomayn 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2011.01.23 07:00:00 - [39] It may just be me and my net connection (horrible aussie net :( ) but pulling portraits is a nightmare. Loading a character sheet takes an age now due to lag while pulling up the portrait, I run my character sheet w/o things showing just because every time I go to change a skill or post a KM I lag out while the portrait loads. Also, loading grid after a gate jump into a fight is a nightmare - although I can't back this up OFC I feel that loading 50 or so portrats + loading the system environment isn't doing much to help. Being able to say 'nope, don't want to see their portraits until I feel like it' again would be fantastic.
Bryg Philomena Don't Taze Me Bro	Posted - 2011.01.23 07:19:00 - [40] read the devblog, they addressed the change to the way portraits are rendered. Quote: This means that the client isn't loading graphic assets and running rendering code for characters in the background while you are flying in space, it will just fetch the character portraits via the internet as if you were browsing a web page. This also means that the client doesn't have to ask the server for characters appearances in order to render them, so we are freeing up server resources too. We also offload all the bandwidth to our Content Delivery Network (CDN) so that we aren't using up the link to Tranquility with requests for images - and as all requests for images go to our CDN it should be extremely fast wherever you are in the world.
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.01.23 15:47:00 - [41] Originally by: Bryg Philomena read the devblog, they addressed the change to the way portraits are rendered. Yes, but that doesn't really explain why we have to download a bunch of images for no good reason, and having no say in the matter, whereas before we could choose not to.
Zhou Wuwang Federal Laboratories	Posted - 2011.01.24 23:04:00 - [42] Originally by: Tippia Originally by: Bryg Philomena read the devblog, they addressed the change to the way portraits are rendered. Yes, but that doesn't really explain why we have to download a bunch of images for no good reason, and having no say in the matter, whereas before we could choose not to. It doesn't explain it, because rendering the portraits (explained in the dev blog) is a completely separate issue from automatically downloading and caching all portraits. Somebody (in CCP) just arbitrarily and capriciously decided that downloading all portraits should now be "the standard."
Karak Terrel As Far As The eYe can see Chained Reactions	Posted - 2011.01.24 23:27:00 - [43] That optional loading was as i see it a "workaround" for the client stress the rendering of the images caused. Now they improved the system and got rid of an ugly workaround. A good things. Now people complaining because something changed and they can't get over it. I sometimes wonder how some people can survive. Next time the flavor of the air around you changes why not stop breathing until you "get the old air back". -- please consider to visit our w-space system, cake will be served immediately.
Verkala Ven	Posted - 2011.01.24 23:39:00 - [44] So, just to make sure I understand... There's no good way in-game to flag other pilots on-the-fly. As a workaround to this, we leveraged the on-demand load of portraits as a sort of "Looked at" flag. Now they've changed it so that portraits demand, and our workaround is gone. And the solution to this is... to demand the return of the workaround? CCP certainly doesn't win any awards for interface design, but this is remarkable even in the realm of low expectations. Maybe they could add some new shortcuts to set standing when hovering over someone on the chat window? At least pretend we're trying to move forward here.
Spineker Caldari	Posted - 2011.01.24 23:40:00 - [45] Edited by: Spineker on 24/01/2011 23:43:46 Originally by: Bryg Philomena read the devblog, they addressed the change to the way portraits are rendered. Quote: This means that the client isn't loading graphic assets and running rendering code for characters in the background while you are flying in space, it will just fetch the character portraits via the internet as if you were browsing a web page. This also means that the client doesn't have to ask the server for characters appearances in order to render them, so we are freeing up server resources too. We also offload all the bandwidth to our Content Delivery Network (CDN) so that we aren't using up the link to Tranquility with requests for images - and as all requests for images go to our CDN it should be extremely fast wherever you are in the world. BOOM and Bryg smartbombs the entire thread! Guess Mr. Baliagha was not such an "idiot" after all.
Spineker Caldari	Posted - 2011.01.24 23:42:00 - [46] Originally by: Karak Terrel That optional loading was as i see it a "workaround" for the client stress the rendering of the images caused. Now they improved the system and got rid of an ugly workaround. A good things. Now people complaining because something changed and they can't get over it. I sometimes wonder how some people can survive. Next time the flavor of the air around you changes why not stop breathing until you "get the old air back". Yep will just have to set standings :)
ivar R'dhak	Posted - 2011.01.25 00:20:00 - [47] Edited by: ivar R''dhak on 25/01/2011 00:23:23 Originally by: Tippia It's the fact that I used to use people's portraits in local as a very clear indicator of having already investigated them when travelling through potentially hostile space. I have the very deep suspicion CCP isn¦t even aware of this (important for 0.0) form of "metagaming". Bring back the facelessness CCP! Let us admire the ozom portraits when we want to or have to like during Incarna. Originally by: Spineker Yep will just have to set standings :) .. for everybody in EVE you can theoretically meet. Sounds like a perfect plan .. to crash the server. ______________ Mal-¦Appears we got here just in a nick of time. What does that make us?¦ Zoe-`Big damn heroes, sir.` Mal-¦Aint we just.¦
Fkn Arson 0ne Percent.	Posted - 2011.01.25 00:26:00 - [48] Originally by: Spineker BOOM and Bryg smartbombs the entire thread! Guess Mr. Baliagha was not such an "idiot" after all. I would love to see your explanation for that, seeing as it didn't (as pointed out after that thread) explain everything, if anything, about the questions being asked, as well as those who play on limited connections (3g being the most limited, along with Satellite I assume). Though kissing someones rear does get you noticed in the forums faster.
Spineker Caldari	Posted - 2011.01.25 00:33:00 - [49] Edited by: Spineker on 25/01/2011 00:34:42 Originally by: Fkn Arson Originally by: Spineker BOOM and Bryg smartbombs the entire thread! Guess Mr. Baliagha was not such an "idiot" after all. I would love to see your explanation for that, seeing as it didn't (as pointed out after that thread) explain everything, if anything, about the questions being asked, as well as those who play on limited connections (3g being the most limited, along with Satellite I assume). Though kissing someones rear does get you noticed in the forums faster. Made perfect sense to me and considering I think for me had no impact at all if not more responsive. If 2 or 3 megs of images every 3000 or so players you run into is going to bankrupt a 3g connection maybe find a new connection? I would rather have more responsive servers, Satellite with its 1 to 2ms lag time? As for me kissing arse I found it silly to call someone an idiot when the person was just trying to explain why it might work better. If me saying that was wrong to call him that makes me an arse kisser well prepare yourself because I have no intention of changing my way of viewing things.
Zhou Wuwang Federal Laboratories	Posted - 2011.01.25 02:16:00 - [50] Originally by: Spineker Made perfect sense to me... Respectfully, the reason it made perfect sense to you is because you don't appear understand the technology. If you had a better understanding, you would have realized it wasn't relevant to OP. Originally by: Spineker ...I found it silly to call someone an idiot when the person was just trying to explain why it might work better. Agreed.
Saffron Noire	Posted - 2011.02.07 23:07:00 - [51] +1 (please ADD the old option to turn off char auto load) agreed, i used to travel about and know instantly if any mates were in system, as there character portraits would be already loaded (also works with bad guys!) i really miss this, it's info overload atm. Quit tugging my mink!
mkmin	Posted - 2011.02.07 23:19:00 - [52] I've already posted in this thread, but would like to throw in again after more experience. Auto-loading portraits does use system resources and does represent client-side performance degradation to a noticeable level. It makes it very difficult to watch for wartargets, as scrolling through local will auto-load the portraits of the hundreds of people in local, and visually it's much more difficult to identify persons of interest. The only arguments against allowing the option to opt out are immersion and that client-side performance unimportant. It is not immersive to see a bunch of vague meaningless shapes in the portrait boxes. It is not immersive to have any client-side performance degradation just because you want to look for a name. In video games, faces do not matter, only names do, and any attempts to force a change will make the games worse, not better.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Sleeping Fury	Posted - 2011.02.07 23:24:00 - [53] I've got EVE installed to an SSD so don't notice any slowdown, but not being able to identify new people entering local is something of an issue for a lot of people.
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.02.07 23:31:00 - [54] Originally by: Rawr Cristina I've got EVE installed to an SSD so don't notice any slowdown, but not being able to identify new people entering local is something of an issue for a lot of people. I used this a lot :( I was rather disapointed when I noticed all portraits were updating all the time. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Ben Alman Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.07 23:47:00 - [55] Edited by: Ben Alman on 07/02/2011 23:51:56 You do realize that only the ones currently displayed will be downloaded? Thats about 6 on a default window and about max 30 on an enlarged local. So no issue performance wise. Even in Jita where many changes occur there is no problem, because with 1800 people, the top 6 that are displayed will be pretty much the same at any time. So the only thing to whine about is a lost intel tool. Be happy they didn't remove local yet! EDIT: Opt out OK for people with crappy pc HDD inet whatever but then NO images will be displayed ever so the "no intel" aspect is still present
KhaniKirai	Posted - 2011.02.07 23:48:00 - [56] Edited by: KhaniKirai on 07/02/2011 23:53:48 Edited by: KhaniKirai on 07/02/2011 23:48:22 Checked the cache/pictures directory of eve. Numbers of files: 16303, 101 directories inside it. Space : 32.2MB Space taken on HD: 72.6mb And its only 2 weeks old??? Really, I dont need this mess on my HD, give us that opt out option back. Edit: the above was only the characters folder in the pictures directory. The pictures directory contains 17.432 files, 109 maps and is 70.8MB and occupies 116MB on the HD. If you insist on putting all the graphical stuff on our HD's, have at least the decency to make a BIG file of it.
Gecko O'Bac Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.02.07 23:49:00 - [57] Originally by: Spineker Edited by: Spineker on 24/01/2011 23:43:46 Originally by: Bryg Philomena read the devblog, they addressed the change to the way portraits are rendered. Quote: This means that the client isn't loading graphic assets and running rendering code for characters in the background while you are flying in space, it will just fetch the character portraits via the internet as if you were browsing a web page. This also means that the client doesn't have to ask the server for characters appearances in order to render them, so we are freeing up server resources too. We also offload all the bandwidth to our Content Delivery Network (CDN) so that we aren't using up the link to Tranquility with requests for images - and as all requests for images go to our CDN it should be extremely fast wherever you are in the world. BOOM and Bryg smartbombs the entire thread! Guess Mr. Baliagha was not such an "idiot" after all. Well, he remains an "idiot" because he accidentally said something that is marginally true through sheer luck and utter incomprehension of how things work. The server (as in Tranquility) isn't less loaded due to the anything he said. TQ is less loaded because the queries are now made against another server entirely, which is in the same cluster that manages the website and probably eve-gate. So yes, TQ is "safe". It still not changes that, client side, you ARE using much more bandwidth than before. And you're doing that in exactly the moment that is most critical: on jump in (since apparently you download images even if the chat is closed). This alone is undesirable (or at least should be subject to user's judgment). Couple that with the issues other people have noted and we have a "problem". Nothing major, but still it could be easily avoided.
mkmin	Posted - 2011.02.07 23:55:00 - [58] Originally by: Ben Alman Edited by: Ben Alman on 07/02/2011 23:51:56 You do realize that only the ones currently displayed will be downloaded? Thats about 6 on a default window and about max 30 on an enlarged local. So no issue performance wise. Even in Jita where many changes occur there is no problem, because with 1800 people, the top 6 that are displayed will be pretty much the same at any time. So the only thing to whine about is a lost intel tool. Be happy they didn't remove local yet! EDIT: Opt out OK for people with crappy pc HDD inet whatever but then NO images will be displayed ever so the "no intel" aspect is still present ^^ This is an example of the "performance doesn't matter" argument. I disagree. Performance matters.
Ben Alman Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.07 23:57:00 - [59] Edited by: Ben Alman on 07/02/2011 23:57:45 Originally by: mkmin Originally by: Ben Alman Edited by: Ben Alman on 07/02/2011 23:51:56 You do realize that only the ones currently displayed will be downloaded? Thats about 6 on a default window and about max 30 on an enlarged local. So no issue performance wise. Even in Jita where many changes occur there is no problem, because with 1800 people, the top 6 that are displayed will be pretty much the same at any time. So the only thing to whine about is a lost intel tool. Be happy they didn't remove local yet! EDIT: Opt out OK for people with crappy pc HDD inet whatever but then NO images will be displayed ever so the "no intel" aspect is still present ^^ This is an example of the "performance doesn't matter" argument. I disagree. Performance matters. Of course performance does matter but loading 6 to 30 32x32 images is in no way a performance hit. A bad coding style in programming code would do much more harm.
mkmin	Posted - 2011.02.08 00:09:00 - [60] Originally by: Ben Alman Edited by: Ben Alman on 07/02/2011 23:57:45 Originally by: mkmin Originally by: Ben Alman Edited by: Ben Alman on 07/02/2011 23:51:56 You do realize that only the ones currently displayed will be downloaded? Thats about 6 on a default window and about max 30 on an enlarged local. So no issue performance wise. Even in Jita where many changes occur there is no problem, because with 1800 people, the top 6 that are displayed will be pretty much the same at any time. So the only thing to whine about is a lost intel tool. Be happy they didn't remove local yet! EDIT: Opt out OK for people with crappy pc HDD inet whatever but then NO images will be displayed ever so the "no intel" aspect is still present ^^ This is an example of the "performance doesn't matter" argument. I disagree. Performance matters. Of course performance does matter but loading 6 to 30 32x32 images is in no way a performance hit. A bad coding style in programming code would do much more harm. Ah I see. It's the "performance matters, but no, it doesn't really" argument. Got it. I still maintain my own position that based on the FACT that loading ANY extra new data MUST cause a performance hit should be reason enough to give us the option of opting out, especially since the code was already there with the old system. And scrolling through a list of 1800 people looking for that 1 wartarget ALSO loads those 1800 portraits, which is a significant performance cost and waste of HDD space. It would be nice to have the click-to-load option back, but I also wouldn't mind if loading portraits was turned off entirely. What would happen if I set the portraits cache folder to read-only? Would it break EVE?
Ben Alman Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.08 00:17:00 - [61] Edited by: Ben Alman on 08/02/2011 00:21:40 Edited by: Ben Alman on 08/02/2011 00:19:50 Quote: And scrolling through a list of 1800 people looking for that 1 wartarget ALSO loads those 1800 portraits, which is a significant performance cost and waste of HDD space. It would be nice to have the click-to-load option back, but I also wouldn't mind if loading portraits was turned off entirely. What would happen if I set the portraits cache folder to read-only? Would it break EVE? First, thats what I said in my edit. Second, I'm trying it for you ;) EDIT: Yes it works. Rightclick your cache/Pictures/characters/chat folder Properties-->Security-->Edit... Set SYSTEM to DENY modify and write --> OK (Win7) However I have no idea if that generates long error logs somewhere (write operation failed on....)
Venta Vendita Gallente North American Euro Space Agency	Posted - 2011.02.08 00:21:00 - [62] what you guys should be doing is handling this whole thing in a different way. Your "I can't track people" has jack sh*t to do with loading portraits so stop trolling on this subject to try to get your way. What you need to do is make a proposal thread to add more 'icons, symbols' to the players in chat (just like how you set standings and will show you the red - or the blue +). Well add a couple icons to the set standings and problem solved. We all walk away happy.
Catheryn Martobi	Posted - 2011.02.08 00:33:00 - [63] Has anyone considered this may be a stealth attack on botting? I figure the biggest problem macro miners/ratters do so in large groups in nullsec. In order to recognize when an enemy enters the system the bot keeps an eye on local for blank faces and warps off. Ensuring there are no blank faces prevents these bots from working and they have to either mine by themselves in the system or risk not recognizing an enemy.
iP0D	Posted - 2011.02.08 00:47:00 - [64] I wish loading portraits was optional and had a setting for it. Then again, I also wish I could do that for space backgrounds. Not because of attempts at tuning the client for more fps in fleet battles or something like that. No, just because I am still waiting for CCP to introduce a little compensation for some usability changes which were not exactly fun for people with visual deficiencies.
Venta Vendita Gallente North American Euro Space Agency	Posted - 2011.02.08 01:03:00 - [65] Originally by: iP0D I wish loading portraits was optional and had a setting for it. Then again, I also wish I could do that for space backgrounds. Not because of attempts at tuning the client for more fps in fleet battles or something like that. No, just because I am still waiting for CCP to introduce a little compensation for some usability changes which were not exactly fun for people with visual deficiencies. Did you even read this thread? Whether you load them or not will have no affect on 'lag' or give you more FPS. If your 'lagging' then the problem lies with your computer specs not the client or eve server. "This means that the client isn't loading graphic assets and running rendering code for characters in the background while you are flying in space, it will just fetch the character portraits via the internet as if you were browsing a web page. This also means that the client doesn't have to ask the server for characters appearances in order to render them, so we are freeing up server resources too. We also offload all the bandwidth to our Content Delivery Network (CDN) so that we aren't using up the link to Tranquility with requests for images - and as all requests for images go to our CDN it should be extremely fast wherever you are in the world."
Ben Alman Gallente	Posted - 2011.02.08 01:06:00 - [66] Originally by: Venta Vendita Originally by: iP0D I wish loading portraits was optional and had a setting for it. Then again, I also wish I could do that for space backgrounds. Not because of attempts at tuning the client for more fps in fleet battles or something like that. No, just because I am still waiting for CCP to introduce a little compensation for some usability changes which were not exactly fun for people with visual deficiencies. Did I even read this post? Whether you load them or not will have no affect on 'lag' or give you more FPS. If your 'lagging' then the problem lies with your computer specs not the client or eve server. "This means that the client isn't loading graphic assets and running rendering code for characters in the background while you are flying in space, it will just fetch the character portraits via the internet as if you were browsing a web page. This also means that the client doesn't have to ask the server for characters appearances in order to render them, so we are freeing up server resources too. We also offload all the bandwidth to our Content Delivery Network (CDN) so that we aren't using up the link to Tranquility with requests for images - and as all requests for images go to our CDN it should be extremely fast wherever you are in the world." Fixed
Aera Aiana Amarr	Posted - 2011.02.08 01:19:00 - [67] Originally by: mkmin Ah I see. It's the "performance matters, but no, it doesn't really" argument. Got it. I still maintain my own position that based on the FACT that loading ANY extra new data MUST cause a performance hit should be reason enough to give us the option of opting out, especially since the code was already there with the old system. At some point in development EVE probably also rendered models without textures. That doesn't mean there has to be an option to turn them off now. Performance is not everything. It matters, but so does appearance. Originally by: mkmin And scrolling through a list of 1800 people looking for that 1 wartarget ALSO loads those 1800 portraits, which is a significant performance cost and waste of HDD space. Those portraits are about 8KB each. There is nothing "significant" about it. Originally by: mkmin It would be nice to have the click-to-load option back, but I also wouldn't mind if loading portraits was turned off entirely. What would happen if I set the portraits cache folder to read-only? Would it break EVE? Maybe if it was some ini-file setting, but the options menu already contains enough trash. - Don't let the trolls stop you from giving a helpful reply. :)
Tippia Sunshine and Lollipops	Posted - 2011.02.08 01:24:00 - [68] Originally by: Aera Aiana Maybe if it was some ini-file setting, but the options menu already contains enough trash. The options menu already contained pretty much that exact option. It was removed with the new system. All they need to do is bring it backà ùùù ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö ù Karath Piki
mkmin	Posted - 2011.02.08 09:51:00 - [69] For Windows XP users who want to set the portrait cache to read only, there are a few more steps you've gotta take. This assumes you know your way around a windows computer, and are smart enough to fix it if you change your mind. Step 1: go to Control Panel -> Folder Options -> uncheck "simple file sharing" Step 2: navigate to .\Documents and Settings\%user%\Local Settings\Application Data\CCP\EVE\%eve's install location%_tranquility\cache\pictures\characters\ step 3: right-click chat folder -> properties -> security step 4: for each group/user check "deny" for "write" So far I love the snappiness this returns to the client that was lost with Incursions 3, and yes, I can see a dramatic difference. Next step is to figure out how to manually add the portraits of people I actually care about. Be aware, CCP may consider this optimization "bad." Also be aware, that if you screw up your own computer by not understanding my instructions, sucks to be you, it's your own fault.
Crumplecorn Gallente Eve Cluster Explorations	Posted - 2011.02.08 10:11:00 - [70] Originally by: Aera Aiana At some point in development EVE probably also rendered models without textures. That doesn't mean there has to be an option to turn them off now. Performance is not everything. It matters, but so does appearance. Now that you mention it, that would be a great option to have. Neither performance nor appearance are everything, options are everything. - I wish I was a three foot tall doll with a watering can and heterochromatic eyes
Gecko O'Bac Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.02.08 13:56:00 - [71] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: Aera Aiana At some point in development EVE probably also rendered models without textures. That doesn't mean there has to be an option to turn them off now. Performance is not everything. It matters, but so does appearance. Now that you mention it, that would be a great option to have. Neither performance nor appearance are everything, options are everything. I agree. Most of the time in fleet combat you don't even have the time (or the need) to watch at the actual space. Your too busy managing modules, distances and targeting too watch at how your ship is responding (and, honestly... Who does even see any ship during fleet combat? it's just a little dot at the center of the screen). If a "simulation-like" screen could be used (and it was beneficial to performance) in such situations, I'd be all for giving the chance to use it. Something like the old mini map they had back in the day... Symbols, 3 d space and low amount of graphics to be digested by the client. Kinda like this: http://xavnet.nl/eve/2002.12.20.20.48.49.jpg, only with the small 3d map in the corner as a full view instead of the normal view. As an option of course.
Skippermonkey Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service	Posted - 2011.02.08 14:18:00 - [72] lol @ this thread this is months and months of hard work, and you be damned if you think CCP are going to let you ignore it You're waiting for an ibis, an ibis that will take you far away. You know where you hope this ibis will take you, but you can't be sure. But it doesn't matter - because we'll be together.

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