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Cyaxares II
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Posted - 2011.01.25 08:04:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Cyaxares II on 25/01/2011 08:08:02
 Originally by: Professor Tarantula
But now, after all these years, what if Incarna is the biggest pile of BS hype yet?
The Live Dev Blog yesterday did finally lay the myth of player designed clothing to rest - message was: we want you eventually to be able to project your corp logo on your clothing or have some sort of corp uniform but no player-designed clothes in the foreseeable future.
(don't have a transcript available to quote verbatim but I am certain that my memory serves me right rgd the core mesage)
Now, only the idea of player-operated night clubs has to die and we're closing in on reality.
Again it was confirmed that CCP intends to use the staggered release approach in the future and elsewhere it has been stated that it will probably be applied to Incarna. This is a great excuse to give you walking, captain's quarters and maybe some meeting areas in a select number of stations at Incarna release while gradually adding any actual gameplay content and expanding the number of stations in which Incarna is available (and the population limits for individual areas) over a period of several months.
Also every question related to PI was answered with "we are working really hard on the DUST link and have absolutely no idea what we are going to do after that".
--
<Abuser> Won't the wave of intelligent bots make CCP work at least in the direction of securing the engine?
<[IA]Morpheus> Of course it will, that's obvious. |
Sader Rykane
Amarr
Midnight Sentinels
Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.25 08:11:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Cyaxares II
Edited by: Cyaxares II on 25/01/2011 08:08:02
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
But now, after all these years, what if Incarna is the biggest pile of BS hype yet?
The Live Dev Blog yesterday did finally lay the myth of player designed clothing to rest - message was: we want you eventually to be able to project your corp logo on your clothing or have some sort of corp uniform but no player-designed clothes in the foreseeable future.
(don't have a transcript available to quote verbatim but I am certain that my memory serves me right rgd the core mesage)
Now, only the idea of player-operated night clubs has to die and we're closing in on reality.
Again it was confirmed that CCP intends to use the staggered release approach in the future and elsewhere it has been stated that it will probably be applied to Incarna. This is a great excuse to give you walking, captain's quarters and maybe some meeting areas in a select number of stations at Incarna release while gradually adding any actual gameplay content and expanding the number of stations in which Incarna is available (and the population limits for individual areas) over a period of several months.
Also every question related to PI was answered with "we are working really hard on the DUST link and have absolutely no idea what we are going to do after that".
Well I'de say the futures looking pretty blea...err.. bright! Yes, that's it... bright.
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Rakshasa Taisab
Caldari
Sane Industries Inc.
Initiative Mercenaries
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Posted - 2011.01.25 08:15:00 -
[63]
Did anyone post yet that the ship customization thing was a troll? Did not read further.
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Palpatine III
Amarr
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Posted - 2011.01.25 08:28:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Cyaxares II
Edited by: Cyaxares II on 25/01/2011 08:18:38
With regards to development of the new UI CCP "dropped the bomb" that they have just (as in half of the company is not even aware of this yet) have assigned one developer to work full-time on the UI. Seriously?
I may have got this wrong, but what I heard is that they just assigned CCP Shark to be the lead game designer for the UI. Not that he would be the only one working on it. That's just crazy talk!
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Sader Rykane
Amarr
Midnight Sentinels
Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.25 08:29:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab
Did anyone post yet that the ship customization thing was a troll? Did not read further.
One of those obvious things that most people didn't need to be told but we leave unsaid to weed out the weaker and slower among us.
Make its easier for pirates to cull the herd.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2011.01.25 08:32:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Palpatine III
I may have got this wrong, but what I heard is that they just assigned CCP Shark to be the lead game designer for the UI. Not that he would be the only one working on it. That's just crazy talk!
1 is up from 0.
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Xailia
Unsteady Corporation
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Posted - 2011.01.25 08:33:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Palpatine III
...I may have got this wrong, but what I heard is that they just assigned CCP Shark to be the lead game designer for the UI. Not that he would be the only one working on it. That's just crazy talk!
But he has the teeth of 10 men!
"The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel."
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Quemist
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Posted - 2011.01.25 08:36:00 -
[68]
Some of you may not know or may not realize that many years ago when some of us were starting WIS/Ambulation was promised as something "coming soon" and was being hyped up. It became something we expected to be added to EVE soooon and it became part of our noob dreams. A dream stolen from us, breaking our once innocent noob hearts. Turning some of us into wretch bitter vets all on its own before we even cosider all the other dissapointments.
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mkmin
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Posted - 2011.01.25 08:39:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Quemist
Some of you may not know or may not realize that many years ago when some of us were starting WIS/Ambulation was promised as something "coming soon" and was being hyped up. It became something we expected to be added to EVE soooon and it became part of our noob dreams. A dream stolen from us, breaking our once innocent noob hearts. Turning some of us into wretch bitter vets all on its own before we even cosider all the other dissapointments.
lol, I started as a bitternoob. Transition was easier for me. :P
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Cyaxares II
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Posted - 2011.01.25 08:49:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Palpatine III
Originally by: Cyaxares II
Edited by: Cyaxares II on 25/01/2011 08:18:38
With regards to development of the new UI CCP "dropped the bomb" that they have just (as in half of the company is not even aware of this yet) have assigned one developer to work full-time on the UI. Seriously?
I may have got this wrong, but what I heard is that they just assigned CCP Shark to be the lead game designer for the UI. Not that he would be the only one working on it. That's just crazy talk!
yes, although I am not sure whether it was indeed lead game designer UI or just lead designer UI.
However, consider that they obviously didn't have this position before - I think that can tell us a lot about the state of UI development so far.
If they had a dedicated UI development team all the time how did they do without some design lead? my guess would be that they have had a couple of developers that did UI design & programming as a secondary role whenever new UIs/UI reworks were due and the emphasis in my (somewhat sarcastic) comment was meant to be on "fulltime".
--
<Abuser> Won't the wave of intelligent bots make CCP work at least in the direction of securing the engine?
<[IA]Morpheus> Of course it will, that's obvious. |
Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.25 09:20:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
Not very long ago, T'Amber resigned from CSM after becoming privy to certain details about the direction the game was going which, for some unclarified reason, caused such a devoted EVE player to sell their character in disgust. The general consensus was that it was over microtransactions, or EVE becoming free to play.
From T'Amber videos an posts it was about microtransactions, in particular about the [then scrapped] remap for plex.
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
I didn't think much of it until the ship modification for PLEX 'leak', which revolved around an alleged screenshot of the service
You mean the photo shopped pics? Or you have a link to something more credible?
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
but maybe T'Amber just had an extreme hatred for all things PLEX, or something.
Right. Search his videos on the Jita park speaking corner and T'amber resignation.
Here
Originally by: T'Amber
Due to my stance on Microtransactions as the character T'amber I can not in good conscience purchase PLEX. While the effort I put into the game returns a high emotional reward (and I get to meet some cool people) with the coming changes to the payment model and the way that I personally play this is nolonger enough for me nor do I wish to continue paying cash for the amount of work and effort that I put into the game and the community.
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
It's only earlier tonight, after a couple mysterious comments made by another decent individual from the CSM, that i began to wonder if maybe things aren't so much worse than just PLEX for vanity items or the game going f2p.
Care to link the thread? CCP hasn't promised much for Incarna (in reality almost nothing) and beside some nice pic I don't recall any direct hype.
Most of what was said is extremely generic. Most of the hype is from player requesting/wanting some specific feature that was specifically excluded from Incarna read the "fight in station2 thread in the Assembly Hall).
Probably Incarna is meant to be a PLEX sink with new hairstyles and clothing costing centiPlex (1/100 of a PLEX) or something similar. So far nothing that will change the spaceship part of EVE.
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Siona Windweaver
Placeholder Holdings
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Posted - 2011.01.25 09:27:00 -
[72]
Anyone who thinks its (Incarna) going to be anything other than rudimentary walking, basic emotes is delusional.
Anyone who thinks the improvements (favorite word, iterations) to the incarna to be anything other than very heavy micro-transaction based features is also delusional.
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Cyaxares II
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Posted - 2011.01.25 09:40:00 -
[73]
Edited by: Cyaxares II on 25/01/2011 09:44:25
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Care to link the thread? CCP hasn't promised much for Incarna (in reality almost nothing) and beside some nice pic I don't recall any direct hype.
Most of what was said is extremely generic. Most of the hype is from player requesting/wanting some specific feature that was specifically excluded from Incarna read the "fight in station2 thread in the Assembly Hall).
Many players seem to have formed their expectations along the lines of the Fanfest 2008 ambulation/WiS presentations - Linkage (especially the "WIS Enviroments" video), CCP also presented a playable demo of WiS with some rooms and minigames at FanFest 2008.
All the talk about player-designed clothing, player-operated bars, customizable NPCs to serve as your employees, ... originated at that Fanfest and was presented by CCP as "we want you to be able to do <x>".
Comments like "we played it a lot and it's very fun" did contribute to the impression that the groundwork of WiS was finished and the only thing missing was some polishing and additional content.
My guess is that at some point between 2008 and today the WiS was rebooted and the underlying technology was changed by a lot (probably in connection with WoD development and the Corification of EVE) - thus rendering much of the old code and art assets moot and making WiS as presented on Fanfest 2008 little more than a mockup of what Incarna might look like.
Today CSM has probably seen less of Incarna than the public had seen of WiS in 2008.
--
<Abuser> Won't the wave of intelligent bots make CCP work at least in the direction of securing the engine?
<[IA]Morpheus> Of course it will, that's obvious. |
Barbelo Valentinian
Gallente
The Scope
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Posted - 2011.01.25 09:44:00 -
[74]
It's positively biblical, the lack of faith people have in CCP, despite CCP's consistent track record in sustaining one of the best MMOs in the world at the moment ...
I dunno, it seems to me that the new "staggered" approach is exactly what the doctor ordered, it seems to have enabled CCP to iterate on PI while introducing something new, and that bodes well.
Microtransactions and f2p I don't care about, it's obviously the way of the future (if it's based on a "pay for as much of the game as you use"/market segmentation version like Turbine's).
Provided CCP continue with this "introduce something new/iterate or fix something old" approach, then even if Incarna's a bit barebones to start with, people won't mind.
However if old things continue to be left languishing, people will be upset if Incarna's barebones to start with.
*****
"To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding |
James Tiberius Kirk
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Posted - 2011.01.25 09:51:00 -
[75]
Edited by: James Tiberius Kirk on 25/01/2011 09:52:30
Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
It's positively biblical, the lack of faith people have in CCP, despite CCP's consistent track record in sustaining one of the best MMOs in the world at the moment ...
Only because there is no alternative. CCP has a proven track record of releasing broken features.
Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
I dunno, it seems to me that the new "staggered" approach is exactly what the doctor ordered, it seems to have enabled CCP to iterate on PI while introducing something new, and that bodes well.
They did this only after the enormous about of ****fest they received when they released they couldn't iterate on ANYTHING for the next 18 months. They had to bite it after the backlash.
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Quemist
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Posted - 2011.01.25 09:52:00 -
[76]
Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian
It's positively biblical, the lack of faith people have in CCP, despite CCP's consistent track record in sustaining one of the best MMOs in the world at the moment ...
I dunno, it seems to me that the new "staggered" approach is exactly what the doctor ordered, it seems to have enabled CCP to iterate on PI while introducing something new, and that bodes well.
Microtransactions and f2p I don't care about, it's obviously the way of the future (if it's based on a "pay for as much of the game as you use"/market segmentation version like Turbine's).
Provided CCP continue with this "introduce something new/iterate or fix something old" approach, then even if Incarna's a bit barebones to start with, people won't mind.
However if old things continue to be left languishing, people will be upset if Incarna's barebones to start with.
Your post is going in a case study concerning wether fanboys think differently from an average sane individual.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.25 09:55:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Bhattran
If people haven't read the threads on what content people want/wish for Incarna they should because it won't be anything like that for a long time and probably never will even get close it. The ideas for gameplay as an avatar in those threads, if CCP was doing that, would be awesome but anyone who looks at CCP's history knows they aren't.
CCP will probably develop the stuff people want as it will be used for Word of Darknes and the engine will be [mostly] compatible with EVE Incarna.
The probable time for development will not be under a year from now as WoD is scheduled for 2012 [and I think winter 2012 at best].
What some people dream of is to get a completely new game that will not impact current the spaceship game but at the same time will be complete and compelling for the summer 2011 release of Incarna.
That part of that expansion instead almost certainly will be an add on with a few functions that will not impact the internet spaceship game, mostly a glorified chat room with some added feature.
If, like Prof. Tarantula, someone has re-subscribed hoping for a something big in the first iteration of walking in station they will be almost certainly disappointed, if they are in the spaceship part of the game and feel that Incarna is only a nice add on I think they will appreciate it.
From my point of view the limited expansion will not break the game while a expansion with a lot of functionalities impinging on the spaceship game from the starter will have a high risk of breaking it, so I am more favorable to the "one step at a time" approach for Incarna.
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P42ALPHA
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Posted - 2011.01.25 10:01:00 -
[78]
I just hope all the colors in the stations are shiny.
I have a qestion, is Incarna going to have any features that accualy apply to the game, the one we play in space?
I can see it now, no more ship spinning, ppl spinning. For all the ppl that look forward to this, cause who spends more then 2 min in a station anyhow.
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Cyaxares II
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Posted - 2011.01.25 10:07:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Cyaxares II on 25/01/2011 10:07:23
At this point Incarna seems to have some amazing parallels to Windows Vista.
Extremely ambitious project with some really innovative ideas.
First prototypes are built, presentations about all the cool tech are being made & customers expectations are getting hyped.
Project gets delayed.
Project gets rebooted using a different codebase (MS: Server 2003 SP1/CCP: Carbon/WoD) and gets a new name.
Innovative features get downscaled extremely or scrapped completely (take pleasure in the fact that some pieces of WinFS made it into MSSQL server).
Product reaches market several years after the original hype and doesn't offer anything revolutionary apart from a more shiny and much more resource intensive UI to do the same stuff as before - customers are heavily disappointed.
Spend the next 2 years fixing regressions and bringing the product to the state in which it should have been on the first release.
--
<Abuser> Won't the wave of intelligent bots make CCP work at least in the direction of securing the engine?
<[IA]Morpheus> Of course it will, that's obvious. |
Sader Rykane
Amarr
Midnight Sentinels
Midnight Space Syndicate
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Posted - 2011.01.25 10:08:00 -
[80]
Originally by: P42ALPHA
I just hope all the colors in the stations are shiny.
I have a qestion, is Incarna going to have any features that accualy apply to the game, the one we play in space?
I can see it now, no more ship spinning, ppl spinning. For all the ppl that look forward to this, cause who spends more then 2 min in a station anyhow.
Ship spinning by default is an engaging and time consuming activity that can take weeks and months to perfect. This sometime takes hours of practice everyday.
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Malephar
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Posted - 2011.01.25 10:19:00 -
[81]
Edited by: Malephar on 25/01/2011 10:19:22
Originally by: Serra Polaris
I'll be disappointed if we see microtransactions for clothing, it just ruins the immersion. Buying a Plex with isk/money is fine, but it ruins it when I buy clothing for the same price I could have bought 3-5 fully fit battleships.
What if theres a storyline reasons... eg, the clothes you buy and wear have very expensive pod-less pod technology, so you can still wake up in a clone if you die outside the ship?
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Malephar
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Posted - 2011.01.25 10:22:00 -
[82]
Originally by: Palpatine III
Originally by: Cyaxares II
Edited by: Cyaxares II on 25/01/2011 08:18:38
With regards to development of the new UI CCP "dropped the bomb" that they have just (as in half of the company is not even aware of this yet) have assigned one developer to work full-time on the UI. Seriously?
I may have got this wrong, but what I heard is that they just assigned CCP Shark to be the lead game designer for the UI. Not that he would be the only one working on it. That's just crazy talk!
Leading the redevelopment of the UI is probably top of the list of thankless tasks that every CCP employee wants to avoid getting given. Poor Shark!
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P42ALPHA
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Posted - 2011.01.25 10:41:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Malephar
Edited by: Malephar on 25/01/2011 10:19:22
Originally by: Serra Polaris
I'll be disappointed if we see microtransactions for clothing, it just ruins the immersion. Buying a Plex with isk/money is fine, but it ruins it when I buy clothing for the same price I could have bought 3-5 fully fit battleships.
What if theres a storyline reasons... eg, the clothes you buy and wear have very expensive pod-less pod technology, so you can still wake up in a clone if you die outside the ship?
Would that not be a game changing feature, so why would they add that to micro-transactions?
If ccp really wants to make money off of players, add a ship spinning tax, that can only be paid in plex. Use up all ur spins, camera is stuck (eg. "Video Transmiting Probe")Then u must insert plex into a machanical station attendent for more fun spinning. Or we can just wait till the holidays and get some free spins
What was this topic about? oh ya doom and gloom. Blah Blah Blah
Game is still a ton of fun. Walking in stations is just fluff, but it better be shiny fluff!!
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My Postman
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Posted - 2011.01.25 10:56:00 -
[84]
The OP¦s worries MIGHT be valid. Talking about the last deliveries (beside Apocrypha which was very good), quality control is failing.
Look at the lag monster - this should have been solved since MONTHS.
Look at FW - do i need to quote?
Look at PI - carpal tunnel syndrome, i quit after 3 days.
Today the first incursions are hitting. Carebears will fleet up and lose their officer pimped Nightmares, Golems and T3¦s because of broken aggro management while RRing.
Those ppl playing for ruining anotherones day will win. Again. May the first BPC from the final blow be ninja¦ed. Just watch the ****storm on forums, beginning tomorrow.
If you want to "socialise" players, if you want them to group up and fight the incursion, to interact and maybe find new friends, this is not possible with current (aggro) mechanics. They would have to solve this first.
Experianced forum dwellers knew my rage when removing learning skills, and my engagement against microtransactions (remap for plex, and MT at all). Introducing this and spoiling "Dancing in Station", and my days here are done.
Finally i have to say i do look forward to Incarna, lets all hope the best.
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Zeal Chi
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Posted - 2011.01.25 10:59:00 -
[85]
So what if Incarna fails?!? To be playing the game for 4years or how ever long just to walk in stations later is so so silly Im here to fly internet space ships. And the walking in stations is far better than spinning your ship in the dock.
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Mashie Saldana
Minmatar
Veto Corp
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Posted - 2011.01.25 11:07:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Professor Tarantula
I didn't think much of it until the ship modification for PLEX 'leak', which revolved around an alleged screenshot of the service, but once again that doesn't really bother me too much, even if the customization options were pretty compelling and could only be done via PLEX. It reinforced the idea microtransactions are what T'Amber quit over, but does that really make sense? Vanity items for PLEX is something everyone seems to be fairly ok with, and you wouldn't think it's worth quitting over, but maybe T'Amber just had an extreme hatred for all things PLEX, or something.
You DO know that those "leaked" screenshots were photoshop creations by T'Amber right?
I don't know if you are trolling or have been trolled tbh...
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egegergergsdgedgege
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Posted - 2011.01.25 11:22:00 -
[87]
Hi.
Incarna will be nothing more than a ºD-chatroom with some fancy graphics.
CCP will use it to sell us some virtual clothes and hats.
The fact that there is a NDA and the CSM members seam not too happy about what they already know does not surprise me.
CCP has not delivered a single thing that could be called "excellent" since years. I donte expect Incarna to be any different. I just regret that i have a yearly subscription otherwise i would already be gone.
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Brooks Puuntai
Minmatar
Nomadic Asylum
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Posted - 2011.01.25 11:24:00 -
[88]
Edited by: Brooks Puuntai on 25/01/2011 11:25:27
T'Amber did make those. However it was done to bring up a good point. Its already obvious that CCP is pushing micro-transactions however atm they have to settle for just vanity items. If you allow it for one thing it then becomes a slippery slope. I to share the same opinion as T'Amber as the fact that this is a pay to play game not a F2P what CCP is trying to do is build a hybrid system which is a mix of monthly sub and micro-transactions. To me this is just CCP getting desperate and/or greedy.
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Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express
The Spire Collective
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Posted - 2011.01.25 11:42:00 -
[89]
I've been here since 2005.
Incarna has always been the proverbial carrot, its what they've used for years. It is clear they cannot reach the level they are seeking. Everyone knows that. Anyone that believes they really worked on it for the last 4 years is fooling themselves.
But I think EVE is in trouble for other reasons.
Every expansion the last 2 years, they release a half ass expansion. They then patch it on the Friday after its release. That patch generally breaks more than the first one did. They then let folks post over the weekend, never respond and eventually unsticky the issues/feedback thread. While they ignore what they've broken, whether intentionally or not, they tout whatever new thing they've put out. Like for instance yesterday we had the live dev touting the merits of the character creator and the PI. Its smoke and mirrors nothing more.
The fact they've not commented on the many issues raised shows that they really have no idea how they broke the many systems in the game. Which also means they have to idea how to fix it. They hope the eye candy lasts long enough that they can eventually figure out what they did and reverse it.
When I first joined expansions were very large. They introduced all kinds of ships and ideas. The last couple of years they've been more targeted. Some have been successful like Wormholes. Some have been utter failures like Faction Warfare. However they never go back and really attempt to revamp these systems. After about a month or two of patching they leave it as is regardless of whether it needs more work.
Most of what they do change is at odds with their stated goals. They've long wanted more folks to leave hi sec for low sec. Yet they do not seriously work on the reasons folks do not go there. Some folks think it is because of the danger, that's not the real problem. In a way it contributes but it is really a symptom of the problem. The real problem is that it is not possible for casual players to make enough money to progress and replace their materials. The main problem with this is how 0.0 is structured, there is simply not enough infrastructure. If everyone in empire today gathered and left to 0.0 they'd find a barren landscape. There would not be enough stations for them to dock at. Without missions, there are not enough belts or anomalies to provide. That's the greatest failing of Dominion. The Dominion system at its heart is a good idea, but it needs improvements. They say they want small and medium corps to move out to 0.0 but a small or medium corp cannot meet the high numbers that are required to keep indexes up, particularly industry index. They set them high thinking that would prohibit the large alliances, but it does not, they have the people to do it whether it is high or low. But the small and medium alliances cannot compete because of that bar. Now they talk about doing away with jump bridges, which is really foolish. Jump bridges in themselves are not the problem. The problem lies in other systems of the game which remain out of balance. A rebalancing of moon materials throughout 0.0 would most likely take care of any jump bridge problem.
This is what worries me, they do not seem to either understand the problem, or they are truly unwilling to make the changes needed. Make it easier to upkeep military and industry indexes, increase the number of static belts, add more ice belts, increase anomalies from upgrades, increase belts from upgrades, add at least 1 of each mini site to each system, decrease cost of constructing infrastructure like outposts, allow wormhole corporations to claim and build in their space, allow them upgrades, increase the size of space (another few thousand systems...both 0.0 and wormhole), the people cannot move to 0.0 unless they have enough to do, even with danger at their door they'll go so long as they can make a decent living for themselves and they'll even tolerate loss if they can replace.
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. -Mitnal |
Ben Alman
Gallente
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Posted - 2011.01.25 11:52:00 -
[90]
What worries me deeply is that the other "never being released anyway" myth will finally be released this year.
And if Duke turns out any good after this odysee it would be even more embarrassing for CCP if Incarna turns out to be a joke.
Or to cite the Duke release trailer.
Quote:
-What about the Game was it any good?
-Yea but after 12 ****ing years it should be
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