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Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2011.01.25 02:19:00 - [1] Not very long ago, T'Amber resigned from CSM after becoming privy to certain details about the direction the game was going which, for some unclarified reason, caused such a devoted EVE player to sell their character in disgust. The general consensus was that it was over microtransactions, or EVE becoming free to play. Both of which are tolerable by me if done properly. The latter might actually be very good for the EVE world, providing paid customers have an unchanged game experience, and free players live very pathetic existences, but i digress. I didn't think much of it until the ship modification for PLEX 'leak', which revolved around an alleged screenshot of the service, but once again that doesn't really bother me too much, even if the customization options were pretty compelling and could only be done via PLEX. It reinforced the idea microtransactions are what T'Amber quit over, but does that really make sense? Vanity items for PLEX is something everyone seems to be fairly ok with, and you wouldn't think it's worth quitting over, but maybe T'Amber just had an extreme hatred for all things PLEX, or something. It's only earlier tonight, after a couple mysterious comments made by another decent individual from the CSM, that i began to wonder if maybe things aren't so much worse than just PLEX for vanity items or the game going f2p. Here is the comment: Quote: The actual state of Incarna is under tight NDA because it doesn't match most people's expectations (don't make assumptions based on a fanfest demo 2+ years ago). It is convenient for publicity to allow the players to speculate about what Incarna will provide. The reaction from the people on the CSM looking forward to Incarna was one of disbelief and disappointment. I would love to explain why, but I can't due to :NDA: The thread spiraled into despair from there, and was very quickly bumped off the main page. Unusually fast. I was a bit taken aback at first, and even gave the person crap for saying anything about something protected by an NDA. Surely this person must just be 'hating' on CCP, but then i did some research, and found that Teadaze seems to be a pretty nice person and even ran an EVE related blog, but doesn't anymore, and isn't very interested in EVE, since learning of what i assume are the same things T'Amber did. So maybe this is it, the big thing which we all have been waiting for so long and dreaming of, could not only be bad, but so different from what we've been led to believe by the hype it's the final straw for people. I was a bit miffed about Dominion not changing 0.0 dramatically like it was said to do, and essentially just gave Alliances rich on moon goo even more income, but i got over it. Never cared too much about 0.0 anyway. PI was touted as something entirely different from what we got. Remember all that stuff about choosing to be a ruthless leader or kind? Pollution? Yeah, we got dots. I was shocked at how much they oversold that one, but like most EVE players, i learn to live with disappointment. But now, after all these years, what if Incarna is the biggest pile of BS hype yet? I'm sure they'd turn around and say "we never promised you any of those things" but they damn well led us on, and i'm really starting to feel like i might agree with T'Amber or these others in the CSM. If Incarna is yet another bait and switch i'm outta here, and i'm pretty sure, after analyzing things, i will be. To everyone who had a long enough attention span to stick with me as i broke everything down, you deserve better than a game company who lacks the attention span to actually produce features they promise, or insinuate, before running off to the next feature or side project to do a half assed job at. To anyone who is just skimming this, or hasn't read anything yet, here's a chimpanzee riding on a segway. Thanks for your time. Sincerely, Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.25 02:24:00 - [2] Edited by: Sader Rykane on 25/01/2011 02:26:01 Many people will probably dismiss this thread, but to be completly up front and honest. Incarna is the reason that I started my Eve account over 4 years ago, and I've been patiently biding my time for its release making sure my character was "ready" for it. So you're right, at least when it comes to me. If Incarna really does turn out to be a steaming pile of pixy dust covered horsecrap. Well I don't see myself sticking around much longer after that, theres plenty more games I haven't tried. EDIT Quick edit btw, while Incarna has been the main reason I stuck around. The addition of W-Space was and still is a fantastic diversion, it's unfortunate the not all expansions can be as compelling as Apocrypha, but such is life.
Alucard291 SOLAR FLEET	Posted - 2011.01.25 02:26:00 - [3] Originally by: Sader Rykane Many people will probably dismiss this thread, but to be completly up front and honest. Incarna is the reason that I started my Eve account over 4 years ago, and I've been patiently biding my time for its release making sure my character was "ready" for it. So you're right, at least when it comes to me. If Incarna really does turn out to be a steaming pile of pixy dust covered horsecrap. Well I don't see myself sticking around much longer after that, theres plenty more games I haven't tried. Well at the very least I can say that's its already the biggest piece of vaporware I've encountered :)
Persephone Astrid The Bastards	Posted - 2011.01.25 02:29:00 - [4] I've been a pirate all this time just so that I can retire from piracy someday and open a space pub. True fact. I'll be disappointed if there are no space pubs.
Quemist	Posted - 2011.01.25 02:29:00 - [5] They had games, bars with strippers in their videos 2 years ago. I can see CCP completely trashing that in favor of quafe vending machines and a plex shop though. Seemsmore Blizzardy, isn't that who they say they idolize now? Pathetic that it took 4 years to screw up and it wasn't even released so we could experience before they ****ed it up like we could with everything else.
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.25 02:30:00 - [6] Originally by: Alucard291 Originally by: Sader Rykane Many people will probably dismiss this thread, but to be completly up front and honest. Incarna is the reason that I started my Eve account over 4 years ago, and I've been patiently biding my time for its release making sure my character was "ready" for it. So you're right, at least when it comes to me. If Incarna really does turn out to be a steaming pile of pixy dust covered horsecrap. Well I don't see myself sticking around much longer after that, theres plenty more games I haven't tried. Well at the very least I can say that's its already the biggest piece of vaporware I've encountered :) Well waiting for Incarna has never been a problem for me, the last thing I wanted was for Incarna to hit but for me to be sitting on a completely worthless 3 million SP character. Now that, as far as I know, we're close very close though. I'm quite happy with the time I spent in Eve, and if Incarna turns out to be a gigantic disaster then meh, I haven't really lost anything; It was fun while it lasted.
Sezdro	Posted - 2011.01.25 02:31:00 - [7] Edited by: Sezdro on 25/01/2011 02:33:25 Very good post man; I wouldn't be suprised if incarna turned out to be crap. The character creator is very well-done at least(or at least to me it is). I wouldn't really care if Incarana sucked, though, because I imagine Star wars: the old republic would be out by then, and I'll probably be playin the hell outa that game. Anyways, again, good post, the content of it was pretty interesting. And as for the chimpanze: that was amazing.
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.25 02:33:00 - [8] Originally by: Quemist They had games, bars with strippers in their videos 2 years ago. I can see CCP completely trashing that in favor of quafe vending machines and a plex shop though. Seemsmore Blizzardy, isn't that who they say they idolize now? Pathetic that it took 4 years to screw up and it wasn't even released so we could experience before they ****ed it up like we could with everything else. Actually, CCP's main problem isn't messing up a good things. It's actually not building on a good thing. Case and point, I'll use w-space (Because I'm completly biased and love it out there.). As fantastic as W-space is theres has been ZERO effort to expand on it, or add content to it. That in my opinion is a mistake. W-space is a veritable gold mine and they should really be expanding on it. But like faction war, it will be something that will just fall by the wayside. Lucky for me, although we may never seen an update to W-Space, as it stands its still pretty fun out there. Though its getting a tad stale.
Grau Wulf	Posted - 2011.01.25 02:35:00 - [9] The whole PLEX for ship customisation and for character tattoo 'screenshots' were complete fakes, and seem to appear in troll posts hoping to ignite some rage. So I wouldn't take them seriously. As for Incarna, sure it's been in development for years, but that was to build the engine and the framework in the first place and I think CCP really underestimated that task. Now with the character creator it's a bit more real, but the recent statements by CCP devs about the first iteration of Incarna is that it won't be mega awesome, but will be built on upon over time. Just like the character creator and just like PI. If that happens or not, who knows. CCP have a lot on their plate, maybe they chewed off more than they can handle. These things certainly take time, and we're not exactly patient. Because of the NDA it's all speculation based on people's personal expectations and their hinted dissapointment. Each one of us have different expectations and it's a fact people will be dissapointed, but at the same time there's the chance that a lot of us won't be. All we can do is wait and see.
Sezdro	Posted - 2011.01.25 02:35:00 - [10] Originally by: Sader Rykane Originally by: Quemist They had games, bars with strippers in their videos 2 years ago. I can see CCP completely trashing that in favor of quafe vending machines and a plex shop though. Seemsmore Blizzardy, isn't that who they say they idolize now? Pathetic that it took 4 years to screw up and it wasn't even released so we could experience before they ****ed it up like we could with everything else. Actually, CCP's main problem isn't messing up a good things. It's actually not building on a good thing. Case and point, I'll use w-space (Because I'm completly biased and love it out there.). As fantastic as W-space is theres has been ZERO effort to expand on it, or add content to it. That in my opinion is a mistake. W-space is a veritable gold mine and they should really be expanding on it. But like faction war, it will be something that will just fall by the wayside. Lucky for me, although we may never seen an update to W-Space, as it stands its still pretty fun out there. Though its getting a tad stale. good point.
HeIIfire11	Posted - 2011.01.25 02:35:00 - [11] Originally by: Sezdro I wouldn't really care if Incarana sucked, though, because I imagine Star wars: the old republic would be out by then, and I'll probably be playin the hell outa that game You and me both
Alucard291 SOLAR FLEET	Posted - 2011.01.25 02:37:00 - [12] Originally by: Sader Rykane Originally by: Quemist They had games, bars with strippers in their videos 2 years ago. I can see CCP completely trashing that in favor of quafe vending machines and a plex shop though. Seemsmore Blizzardy, isn't that who they say they idolize now? Pathetic that it took 4 years to screw up and it wasn't even released so we could experience before they ****ed it up like we could with everything else. Actually, CCP's main problem isn't messing up a good things. It's actually not building on a good thing. Case and point, I'll use w-space (Because I'm completly biased and love it out there.). As fantastic as W-space is theres has been ZERO effort to expand on it, or add content to it. That in my opinion is a mistake. W-space is a veritable gold mine and they should really be expanding on it. But like faction war, it will be something that will just fall by the wayside. Lucky for me, although we may never seen an update to W-Space, as it stands its still pretty fun out there. Though its getting a tad stale. +1 to pretty much all of what you said.
Quemist	Posted - 2011.01.25 02:38:00 - [13] Originally by: Sader Rykane Originally by: Quemist They had games, bars with strippers in their videos 2 years ago. I can see CCP completely trashing that in favor of quafe vending machines and a plex shop though. Seemsmore Blizzardy, isn't that who they say they idolize now? Pathetic that it took 4 years to screw up and it wasn't even released so we could experience before they ****ed it up like we could with everything else. Actually, CCP's main problem isn't messing up a good things. It's actually not building on a good thing. Case and point, I'll use w-space (Because I'm completly biased and love it out there.). As fantastic as W-space is theres has been ZERO effort to expand on it, or add content to it. That in my opinion is a mistake. W-space is a veritable gold mine and they should really be expanding on it. But like faction war, it will be something that will just fall by the wayside. Lucky for me, although we may never seen an update to W-Space, as it stands its still pretty fun out there. Though its getting a tad stale. Yeah I agree with you. In saying they abandoned it before we could experience what it was originally envisioned to be was what I was getting at. I'm with you on apoc and fw to, at least we could try those and see what they could have been before being promptly abandoned. It seems like the wis I was waiting for is gone and they quit it before it was even started.
Chelone Junkyard Gunners	Posted - 2011.01.25 02:39:00 - [14] For incarna, one thing I find "interesting" is the new character creator. I have a 7800 GT, which I am told is similar to what powers consoles like the Xbox 360. I get about, oh, ONE FPS in the new character creator. I can deal with it by putting the shader on low for most of it, then switching to high to make sure it looks right and finishing out at molasses speed. Now I know I am below the average in graphics power, but from what I am told by many people, you need a VERY high-end card to run the character creator on high-shader at a normal FPS. Now consider that this is for showing only ONE CHARACTER. In incarna, we will have what, 30 characters on screen at once? 100? More? Unless I'm missing something, I cannot imagine ANY consumer machine running that on high shader. As for the OP's entire post -- I don't see anything substantive. Post again when you have info, not speculation.
Aleena Vakarian	Posted - 2011.01.25 02:42:00 - [15] Well I've been on the CCP Fanboy bandwagon for a few years now, but in retrospect, you're right. The older expansions were alright, and Apocrypha delivered well, but now things have started spiraling the drain. Dominion promised to change 0.0 forever, and all it did was make Alliances richer. Tyrannis promised us freedom over how we ruled planets, that we could have real choices in morality and leadership, but nope, we got Carpal Tunnel Syndrome. We haven't seen much of Incursion yet, and from what I've seen on the test server it's not too bad. The most worrisome information for me was Teadaze leaving, and all of this speculation about Incarna's failure being quietly swept under the carpet by CCP. I was a fan of Teadaze, one of my favorite CSM members, and one of the best Alliance Tournament commentators i'd heard. I know he was really devoted, and to know that he left because of private information regarding Incarna, that's scary... I mean, I want to like EvE, I want it to succeed; it's really the only MMORPG out there that's any good. WoW has become stale, Star Trek Online failed miserably, Infinity is probably the only prospect left for me, but even that seems dodgy. I want them to succeed, but it's like watching a bunny run into a buzzsaw at this point. There's a 50+ page thread about Excellence and fully delivering on features instead of releasing half-done projects due to time constraints. It seems like CCP has swept this under the rug as well, and the CSM is the only group that is steering in the right direction. Although I have doubts about how much CCP cares about the CSM. Ugh, great. Now I'm paranoid about Incarna as well. I commend you sir, your persuasive writing skills are too impressive for me to match.
Vacrivin	Posted - 2011.01.25 02:44:00 - [16] I agree if Chimpanzees on a segway are what CCP planned then I too will be outraged. In all honesty, I never got exited about walking around in stations (that is incara right?) I view that it will be useless like most things that get added and quickly moved on. There are two ways I see it going. The good way Look at SWG after they added space, it was such a different dynamic it was two games in one at that point that was slightly interrelated when it came to money and acquiring new stuff. I had friends (including myself) who pretty much strictly just played in space after that (it's still a great space game, they screwed the pooch on NGE). This ended up creating a rift in a couple clans. The bad way Star Trek. Ground has no purpose, other then novelty really. As for w-space. What the hell is w-space
Mina Hiragi Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2011.01.25 02:44:00 - [17] Originally by: Professor Tarantula Vanity items for PLEX is something everyone seems to be fairly ok with, and you wouldn't think it's worth quitting over, but maybe T'Amber just had an extreme hatred for all things PLEX, or something. Amarrian God help me for admitting to it, but having played EverQuest II (where Sony has been pimping microtransactions like nobody's business)... You would simply not believe the unfathomable, boundless rage and seething animosity that some players display on being told that their monthly fee isn't enough to gain them access to content.
Ai Shun	Posted - 2011.01.25 02:44:00 - [18] Originally by: Professor Tarantula To everyone who had a long enough attention span to stick with me as i broke everything down, you deserve better than a game company who lacks the attention span to actually produce features they promise, or insinuate, before running off to the next feature or side project to do a half assed job at. I think my attention span was long enough. It's at least as long as a piece of string. There have been so many beautiful concepts like Tabula Rasa with their NPC fighting for territory and being able to control it. The weapon range concepts in Age of Conan. The skill system in Guild Wars. There are so many incredible concepts that simply ... died. Miserably. This concept of EVE online has been running for almost 8 years now and to all intents and purposes, appears to be growing and mutating as the game adapts itself to the changing needs and fluctuations of the player base. Much as I dislike Craig Morrison and his WoWification of Age of Conan, he has written some rather interesting pieces on the challenges facing designers and developers when they are trying to communicate with their players and trying to meet their expectations. Have a read here if you are interested - Talking to your community. And an interesting follow up in dealing with that aggression. There's a lot more good stuff there. I don't think we, as players, often realise how many different opinions there are amongst the player base and how much cat hot roof tinning a company has to do to keep the largest percentage of us happy. Which makes me, as a very new player in this universe with minimal experience on CCP's background, wonder. I wa-wa-wander. CCP releases this content without charging any player a dime for it. Well, realistically in terms of traditional expansion prices. You're still paying your subscription, etc. and that cost shouldn't be ignored. But in essence you're getting a conceptually "free" expansion. I can understand holding them to task for under delivering if the advertised content is actually part of a paid expansion. But when it's free? But then, games are always meant to be fun. If a player is not having fun, they have the option of taking their money and moving on. I've never understood the need to sow these seeds of doom and gloom and zomg game dying halp threads, no matter how eloquently put.
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.25 02:50:00 - [19] Originally by: Chelone For incarna, one thing I find "interesting" is the new character creator. I have a 7800 GT, which I am told is similar to what powers consoles like the Xbox 360. I get about, oh, ONE FPS in the new character creator. I can deal with it by putting the shader on low for most of it, then switching to high to make sure it looks right and finishing out at molasses speed. Now I know I am below the average in graphics power, but from what I am told by many people, you need a VERY high-end card to run the character creator on high-shader at a normal FPS. Now consider that this is for showing only ONE CHARACTER. In incarna, we will have what, 30 characters on screen at once? 100? More? Unless I'm missing something, I cannot imagine ANY consumer machine running that on high shader. As for the OP's entire post -- I don't see anything substantive. Post again when you have info, not speculation. You can't really compare your computer to a dedicated gaming machine. Xbox360 and PS3 are built for nothing but gaming, as such they have many little tricks they can use to get the absolute most out of their hardware and as such they can do things that "equivalent cards" might have trouble doing.
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2011.01.25 02:53:00 - [20] Originally by: Sader Rykane Incarna is the reason that I started my Eve account over 4 years ago, and I've been patiently biding my time for its release making sure my character was "ready" for it. I first played EVE way back in 2005, and didn't stick around long. The buddies who also tried it out with me found it odd we couldn't walk around in stations, and it was the deal breaker for them. I still played for a little while, but didn't stick with it. Talk of 'Ambulation', 'WIS', and 'Incarna' are what got me playing again, and i've been here since, waiting, and preparing. I'm not expecting my wildest dreams with Incarna, but i'm starting to fear the worst. Sincerely, Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Space Jew Sandwitch	Posted - 2011.01.25 02:57:00 - [21] Originally by: Ai Shun New player garbage You honestly have no idea what your talking about when it comes to CCP wis/ambulation/incarna and that's being nice.
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2011.01.25 03:01:00 - [22] Speculating about why any one player quits an mmo is futile. Anyone 'obsessed' with an mmo can experience a sudden case of 'wtf am I doing with my life'. There's many examples of that phenomenon .. CCP are a business that is diversifying for good reason: EvE is ancient spaghetti and the ongoing cost of developing it is probably huge. Incarna was the future of a monolothic flagship EvE five years ago. Carbon (and carbon based successor games) are the future of CCP today and going forward. That is not to say that EvE has no future in the CCP portfolio, or even that the grand ambitions lauded by CCP for Incarna will never happen. Quite the opposite I am sure. EvE is not going 'away' and while CCP retains core talent and a healthy subscriber base there is no reason to presume development will end when CCP taps in to (varying degrees of) the mainstream with other inevitably more encompassing and likely more profitable products. I am pretty sure in fact, that there's more and better games to come from CCP than EvE and I can't see any reason to criticize the business direction. Certainly none of us here is qualified to do anything more than ignorantly speculate. Just sit back, enjoy the ride and maintain your life balance.
Caldariftw123	Posted - 2011.01.25 03:08:00 - [23] Edited by: Caldariftw123 on 25/01/2011 03:10:09 Don't forget that T'Amber didn't quit EVE out of disgust, he just had some weird sort of "I can't use T'Amber with the way EVE is going .. I'll sell him and get a new character instead" mental breakdown. Some sort of RP palsy disease I guess (just jokin, to any RPers out there :P) Also those pics he posted were fake. Keeping EVE under development and making it awesome is an uphill struggle it seems and I bet many CCP employees that are as passionate about keeping the game awesome are as disheartened as many players are by the direction CCP seems to have taken the past year or two and feel like they are banging their head against the wall everytime they try to suggest that something should be changed/fixed only to be told there are no resources available to allocate for that coding. At least the core game is still there though .. I still love it, I still have several accounts, I just wish they'd keep expanding it with proper product and not half-assed attempts like PI and Dominion have been. I have high hopes for tomorrow and Incursions, however! p.s. segway chimpanzee made my day
Space Jew Sandwitch	Posted - 2011.01.25 03:12:00 - [24] PI.. erm.. cough Dust... ridiculous wtf was that
Wibbit Rabbit	Posted - 2011.01.25 03:20:00 - [25] To the OP, Stop being such a sensationalist drama queen. You can already buy plex and sell for ingame money legally, which means everything in eve can already be bought with real life money. Eve's future in doubt? give me a break stop creating hotair out of your a** over nothing.
Quemist	Posted - 2011.01.25 03:23:00 - [26] Originally by: Wibbit Rabbit To the OP, Stop being such a sensationalist drama queen. You can already buy plex and sell for ingame money legally, which means everything in eve can already be bought with real life money. Eve's future in doubt? give me a break stop creating hotair out of your a over nothing. Aren't you the **** who made a post asking how to redo your portrait?
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.25 03:25:00 - [27] Originally by: Wibbit Rabbit To the OP, Stop being such a sensationalist drama queen. You can already buy plex and sell for ingame money legally, which means everything in eve can already be bought with real life money. Eve's future in doubt? give me a break stop creating hotair out of your a** over nothing. Two words: Anger Management.
Wibbit Rabbit	Posted - 2011.01.25 03:25:00 - [28] Originally by: Quemist Originally by: Wibbit Rabbit To the OP, Stop being such a sensationalist drama queen. You can already buy plex and sell for ingame money legally, which means everything in eve can already be bought with real life money. Eve's future in doubt? give me a break stop creating hotair out of your a over nothing. Aren't you the **** who made a post asking how to redo your portrait? yes what does that have to do with this?
Bhattran	Posted - 2011.01.25 03:27:00 - [29] Everything I've seen CCP deliver in my short time here reinforces my view EVE's best days are behind it. The future is unknown it could 'turn around' but I doubt it, until I reach my breaking point or I don't find this entertaining I'm here. As for Incarna I've been on the boat that it is going to be crap for a long time if not forever. They always release stuff and 'iterate' on it if they didn't scale back after realizing they bit off more than they could chew but I feel they are going to release a POS with terrible if not pathetic functionality along the lines of how much 'content' we got with the CC. We got about 6 types of top/bottom/outer/shoe choices across all races/bloodlines where dozens if not hundreds of possibilities are possible and not out of reason to expect for 'customization'. Expect that for Incarna's first iteration, captain's quarters, stations with a handful of things in them all waiting on more content and of course no actual 3d/first person gameplay. If people haven't read the threads on what content people want/wish for Incarna they should because it won't be anything like that for a long time and probably never will even get close it. The ideas for gameplay as an avatar in those threads, if CCP was doing that, would be awesome but anyone who looks at CCP's history knows they aren't. --WIS/Incarna/Ambulation where microtransactions come to play, and uh bars.--
Quemist	Posted - 2011.01.25 03:27:00 - [30] Originally by: Wibbit Rabbit Originally by: Quemist Originally by: Wibbit Rabbit To the OP, Stop being such a sensationalist drama queen. You can already buy plex and sell for ingame money legally, which means everything in eve can already be bought with real life money. Eve's future in doubt? give me a break stop creating hotair out of your a over nothing. Aren't you the **** who made a post asking how to redo your portrait? yes what does that have to do with this? Does that mean you just started playing EVE about erm, less than a week ago when they gave out free redo's ? Orr.. could you not figure out how to click yes when prompted before entering game?
Herping yourDerp	Posted - 2011.01.25 03:28:00 - [31] if T'amber QQ rage ***** quit over micro transactions for vanity items then good ridence, unless they are going to make it " buy a titan for $300 USD" then micro transactions will be fine.
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2011.01.25 03:29:00 - [32] Originally by: Ai Shun There have been so many beautiful concepts like Tabula Rasa with their NPC fighting for territory and being able to control it. The weapon range concepts in Age of Conan. The skill system in Guild Wars. There are so many incredible concepts that simply ... died. Those games had other problems. Age of Conan made some mistakes at launch, and lost the tons of people who had started playing. It's the best fantasy game out there, and its a shame the genre is so crowded it never got a good second chance. Tabula Rasa had a severe lack of hype. Most MMO players only started hearing about it when it was dying, and no one is going to join a dying MMO. Never played Guild Wars, but i don't consider it a failure. Lots of people played it and spoke highly of it for years, and they're working on a sequel now i think. What EVE has, is space combat, or just generally travelling around in space, and lots of people like that a whole bunch, including myself. It doesn't have to deal with any competition or threats. The population is rising, but i suspect a good chunk of that are people waiting for Incarna. It's something many people feel will fill a giant hole in this game. Quote: CCP releases this content without charging any player a dime for it. Well, realistically in terms of traditional expansion prices. You're still paying your subscription, etc. and that cost shouldn't be ignored. But in essence you're getting a conceptually "free" expansion. I can understand holding them to task for under delivering if the advertised content is actually part of a paid expansion. But when it's free? This is as much a curse as a blessing. Look at how much is added to games which charge for expansions and the polish they have. Not charging can be a license to slack off when it comes to them, because "hey, it's free". Quote: But then, games are always meant to be fun. If a player is not having fun, they have the option of taking their money and moving on. I've never understood the need to sow these seeds of doom and gloom and zomg game dying halp threads, no matter how eloquently put. It's really more about feeling constantly manipulated by the hype machine in my case. I like the game, but they have no qualms about leading us along and even outright lying about things just to get more subscribers, and if Incarna turns out to be more of that, then i'm off to greener pastures. Sincerely, Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Wibbit Rabbit	Posted - 2011.01.25 03:32:00 - [33] Originally by: Quemist Originally by: Wibbit Rabbit Originally by: Quemist Originally by: Wibbit Rabbit To the OP, Stop being such a sensationalist drama queen. You can already buy plex and sell for ingame money legally, which means everything in eve can already be bought with real life money. Eve's future in doubt? give me a break stop creating hotair out of your a over nothing. Aren't you the **** who made a post asking how to redo your portrait? yes what does that have to do with this? Does that mean you just started playing EVE about erm, less than a week ago when they gave out free redo's ? Orr.. could you not figure out how to click yes when prompted before entering game? or you could actually learn to read. But nice derail: 4/10.
Two Shots Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.01.25 03:37:00 - [34] Chiming in as someone who generally gives no fcks about changes in games, I'll add my input. Incarna will release some content. It won't be good content. It will be buggy content, like always. It won't necessarily be bad content, but some people will hate it and some people will love it. Most users will completely ignore it as much as they are able, and keep running Level 4 missions in Motsu. For me, I picked up EVE Online because it was Internet Spaceships. For the same reason, I picked up Star Trek Online. Neither one of them lived up to exactly what I thought they would be. Games tend not to do that, not because the developers have an elaborate conspiracy against the players but because it is human nature for people to focus on and wish for the things they'd like to see when presented with vague descriptions of things they're anticipating. Ya know, things like Internet video games. For me, I probably won't actively like or dislike Incarna unless it forces me to change the way I presently play the game; then, I will dislike those elements of it. If, for example, I can no longer access the fitting service and repair service from the docking menu but must instead go through a bunch of session changes to exit my ship, exit my capsule, exit my living quarters, walk to a lift, ride the lift to Platform Whatever, enter the Fitting Service Office, talk to an NPC, and then reverse the process... that would bug me. If there's a bunch of stuff to do inside of a station that I don't have to deal with at all, ever, unless I want to do it... I'd be fine with it. The moral of my post is that everyone whining about how Incarna may or may not turn out should just go ahead and prepare themselves for a disappointment. It will not be how you envision it, or how I envision it, or how the mow optimistic person envisions it, or how the most pessimistic person envisions it. It will be how CCP delivers it: "functional," with a lot of bugs and lag. It'll have stuff you won't care about; it'll have stuff you like; it'll have stuff you hate. It will be a thing. And if you don't like it, then the appropriate response is to either post in the Features & Suggestions sub-forum or stop feeding CCP money for a product you do not enjoy. Two Shots* Official Goonswarm Recruiting Officer
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.01.25 03:44:00 - [35] So, now we're starting 'whine-quiting' even before the facts are on the table? That's a new quality.. congratulations! As for the direction CCP is heading. Look at their processes.. it takes them 6 months - not weeks, MONTHS! - to balance something. Read this again. It takes them 6 months to balance something.. got it? Think about that for a moment. Put it in context with the development of Eve. Now imagine a bunch of gals and guys with such a turn-around time to react on anything that didn't work according to plan. Imagine how they would develop things with time-frames like that. CCP might have scrum and agile, but that probably doesn't apply to all aspects of the company. Welcome to my POV. Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
Drummond	Posted - 2011.01.25 03:50:00 - [36] Edited by: Drummond on 25/01/2011 03:56:08 All I can hear is Tarantara.. And oddly, this is very strangely appropiate to how I feel about all of this.. conjecture: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzSTTTCOHr4&feature=related --- SARGEANT (AND POLICE): Tho' to us it's evident Tarantara, Tarantara! These intentions are well meant, Tarantara! Such expressions don't appear Tarantara, Tarantara! calculated men to cheer, Tarantara! who are going to meet their fate in a highly nervous state. Tarantara, Tarantara, Tarantara! Still to us it's evident these intentions are well meant. Tarantara, Tarantara, Tarantarah!
Serra Polaris	Posted - 2011.01.25 03:51:00 - [37] I'll be disappointed if we see microtransactions for clothing, it just ruins the immersion. Buying a Plex with isk/money is fine, but it ruins it when I buy clothing for the same price I could have bought 3-5 fully fit battleships.
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.01.25 03:59:00 - [38] Originally by: Serra Polaris I'll be disappointed if we see microtransactions for clothing, it just ruins the immersion. Buying a Plex with isk/money is fine, but it ruins it when I buy clothing for the same price I could have bought 3-5 fully fit battleships. 30day PLEX are macrotransactions.. micro is smaller, think in 24hr plexes.. or 1hr plexes as value. Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
Olleybear Minmatar I R' Carebear	Posted - 2011.01.25 04:13:00 - [39] When it comes to expansions and being let down or overjoyed by those expansions, theres really only one question a POD pilot needs to ask themselves: Am I having fun playing Eve right now? Expansions are about adding game play in the future. I dont play Eve right now because I hope something in the future will blow my socks off. I play Eve right now because the current game is fun. Have I been disappointed by an expansion here or there because it didn't live up to expectations? Sure. Do I still enjoy doing what I was in game before the expansion got released? Yes, I do. Saying all that and with the the character creator being pure win, I am worried that Incarna will make me think 'WTF? You've got to be kidding....'. Even if Incarna does turn out to be a pile of manure sprinkled with pixie dust, I wont quit because an expansion of added content disapoints me. I play Eve because I enjoy the current Eve gameplay.
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2011.01.25 04:19:00 - [40] Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 25/01/2011 04:25:05 Originally by: Two Shots There's plenty of griefing and chicanery to be had in space. That's all goons need. And to be clear, I'm speaking from my perspective, and possibly that of the people i mentioned who cannot speak so openly about their feelings. I'm not trying to say EVE is doomed, or everything is ruined forver. EVE will continue like it always does, and maybe even have higher subs with new players, but for some of us it'll be a cue to leave. Sincerely, Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Herping yourDerp	Posted - 2011.01.25 04:23:00 - [41] Originally by: Tres Farmer Originally by: Serra Polaris I'll be disappointed if we see microtransactions for clothing, it just ruins the immersion. Buying a Plex with isk/money is fine, but it ruins it when I buy clothing for the same price I could have bought 3-5 fully fit battleships. 30day PLEX are macrotransactions.. micro is smaller, think in 24hr plexes.. or 1hr plexes as value. they said this, somewhere forgot where i read it, but there will be fractured plex's and its not that big of a deal, if you think about it, its an item that means nothing but nice to have. it has nothing to do with how good a character is, its just for fun.
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.01.25 05:12:00 - [42] Originally by: Tres Farmer it takes them 6 months - not weeks, MONTHS! - to balance something. Read this again. It takes them 6 months to balance something.. got it? How many months has FW gone without a single hour of dev? Since the day of it's launch? No fixes, none.
Lellian Marcellus Taron	Posted - 2011.01.25 05:29:00 - [43] If I can jump out of my ship, walk to a pub and maybe watch an exotic dancer or two, I'll be satisfied. Number one rule in life is to never get your hopes up, that way you're never setting any preconcieved standards for yourself or anything. Or however it goes. I'll admit I'm excited to finally give my characters a bath after slightly over a year of sitting in pod after pod (how long I've been playing), but I'm sure there are other things they plan on bringing to the game as well.
Shant ArmoredCore Armed Forces	Posted - 2011.01.25 05:37:00 - [44] Our academic here has put the finger on the nerve for all things crucial regarding WiS. Now would be the time for CCP to interact and communicate in regards of the matter, but sadly, and I sorely regret to say this, this is the last thread they'll give any official(dev) response. Given the dramatic reaction from two CSM's and considering how CCP in their few hour old devblog stressed the importance of the CSM, it still would be a very weighty incentive to address the voiced concerns. What a great thread, P.T., and no doubt you have given words to what many other players feel in regards of WiS. Also, am I just imagining or could some posts actually be devs in alts doing damage control? Bravo Tarantula, bravo.
Kengutsi Akira	Posted - 2011.01.25 05:52:00 - [45] Originally by: Alucard291 Well at the very least I can say that's its already the biggest piece of vaporware I've encountered :) What about Jumpgate Evolution?
mkmin	Posted - 2011.01.25 05:53:00 - [46] @all those 'wait and see' guys: What if CCP goes back on what they said before and now to use station services you have to walk through the station to do so? What if an everyday instant activity like buying something or reprocessing or refitting will now chew up a good hour of your time? The last 2 expansions have been about mandatory participation. CCP assured us that they wouldn't do that, but they've gone back on their assurances before. "Sure we'll iterate on FW, spacebook will be awesome, PI will have depth, we've got T3 frigs in the next expansion, dominion will break up the power blocs" etc ad nauseum.
Kengutsi Akira	Posted - 2011.01.25 05:57:00 - [47] What if they replace isk with real money :p Without real facts "what if" can be anything
Corozan Aspinall Party Time Inc.	Posted - 2011.01.25 06:00:00 - [48] Originally by: mkmin @all those 'wait and see' guys: What if CCP goes back on what they said before and now to use station services you have to walk through the station to do so? What if an everyday instant activity like buying something or reprocessing or refitting will now chew up a good hour of your time? The last 2 expansions have been about mandatory participation. CCP assured us that they wouldn't do that, but they've gone back on their assurances before. "Sure we'll iterate on FW, spacebook will be awesome, PI will have depth, we've got T3 frigs in the next expansion, dominion will break up the power blocs" etc ad nauseum. CCP makes games for a living. They have managed to do that for a long time - and expand that business incrementally. Whilst growing their subscriber base. Don't panic!
Magnus Orin Minmatar United Systems Navy Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2011.01.25 06:05:00 - [49] If you play Eve for what it will be down the road, you play it for the wrong reasons. If you play Eve for Incarna, you play it for the wrong reasons. I purchased Eve right as Quantum Rise released. From that point on, I have never purchased a single expansion to this game, and neither have any of you. I would still be happy paying my $15 per month per account today, if the content of Eve was exactly the same as it was during Quantum Rise. Instead, I have wormholes to explore in my ships. I have new sov rules to explore in my ships. I have new anomalies to grind for isk in my ships. I have new missions to run in my ships. I have new tech III ships to fly. I have overpowered Supercarriers to shoot with my ship. And I have planetary materials to haul to market in my ships. All of this was added free of charge to the game I purchased two years ago. And I thank CCP for that excellent business model. Eve is about spaceships, so stop you ****ing whining about walking in stations and crying about how it will not live up to your expectations, because guess what; it never will. Sarcasm - Because i'm too far away to strangle you.
Kengutsi Akira	Posted - 2011.01.25 06:07:00 - [50] Ya, I dont get where everyone thinks CCP is going to throw their business model of how many years out the window just cause everyone else is. Everyone else has been paying for expansions for the entire time we've all been playing EVE and NOT paying for them.
mkmin	Posted - 2011.01.25 06:11:00 - [51] Originally by: Kengutsi Akira Ya, I dont get where everyone thinks CCP is going to throw their business model of how many years out the window just cause everyone else is. Everyone else has been paying for expansions for the entire time we've all been playing EVE and NOT paying for them. It's not about them changing their direction. It's about how they've already changed direction and what seems to be the most likely outcome of Incarna.
Kengutsi Akira	Posted - 2011.01.25 06:12:00 - [52] Originally by: mkmin Originally by: Kengutsi Akira Ya, I dont get where everyone thinks CCP is going to throw their business model of how many years out the window just cause everyone else is. Everyone else has been paying for expansions for the entire time we've all been playing EVE and NOT paying for them. It's not about them changing their direction. It's about how they've already changed direction and what seems to be the most likely outcome of Incarna. So, you had to pay for the last expansion? Cause I didnt... looks like you got ripped off. Id be ****ed too
Doris Dragonbreath StarHunt R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.01.25 06:31:00 - [53] I would not put it all in that dark colors. People burn out sometimes, especially if they are very focused on something and things dont move quite exactly with the speed they would want it can be a bit frustrating and that in turn .. well .. yeah. I do think that the new character creator was massive waste of resources that could have been used to make the actual EVE-Online awesome even if I in general like the feature. The new faces can have so much more .. character .. that previously. I take T'Amber quitting sort of like seppuku for driving in a point of great emotional value. State a standpoint and then spill your guts to show that your really really mean it. A bit extreme - but so was PLEX for remaps. I would have not quit over it but it would have added quite a bit of mass to the 'negative' side of scales that tell me if I like or hate a game. My main focus is on the actual EVE-Online game - a spaceships and empire building. Amassing wealth and power and brutally eliminating those who stand in my way. I hate T2 BPO's quite a lot - have taken mild breaks over these in the past and will take in the future until they are either removed or I get irritated enough with them eventually to not return one day after taking another break. PI - well - it is somewhat disappointing, driving that mining colony on Venus with ... dots and lines. It's easy to ignore though, or just do it quick if it makes economic sense to do so. It IS now now a lot cheaper to build an empire in 0.0, as dropping a station egg can be as low as ~9 billion isk against the previous price of ~ 22 billion for the minmatar egg. Now incarna - I am not quite buting this talk about how making it does not take away resources from EVE Online. There ARE devs working on it aint there ? These devs COULD be used to work on EVE Online instead you know. I dont mean 'fix the damn lag', but there is quite a lot of stuff that could use some more polish - take for example that 'flogging a dead horse - POS' - always rejected as 'too much work' while CCP seems to have all the time in the world to work on werewolves and vampires or to make some console shooter. Overall I love the game. With few excpetations within game that irritate me enough to drive me away from time to time and give a try to other stuff. So far that other stuff has not been able to quite take the place of EVE.
Taedrin Gallente The Green Cross Sev3rance	Posted - 2011.01.25 06:32:00 - [54] My thoughts: Incarna has been in development for HOW many years now? It better be worth the wait. As people have said, so many of CCP's recent expansions have been let downs. I haven't seen incursions yet, so I'll hold judgement on that until after I get the chance to taste them. But Dominion? Tyrannis? An entire year of let downs. They also promised us iteration on Planetary interaction, and so far all we got is a streamlined extraction process. No new game mechanics at all. As people have previously asked: what happened with player trading? Pollution? Planetary wars? Dominion did get rid of massive POS bashing, but the basic gameplay mechanics are still the same: you blob up in a giant fleet, and shoot at a structure until it goes into reinforced and then come back and do it again when it comes out of reinforced. No strategic or tactical elements were really added. I'm just hoping that CCP can learn from these mistakes before it is too late. ---------- Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident" Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
Salacious M	Posted - 2011.01.25 06:43:00 - [55] Somebody wanted proof? HERE it is. Enjoy. PS: Many people asked why the new character creator offered very few accessories?? http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/11/25/eve-online-plans-to-add-vanity-microtransactions/
Sardon Darkstar Caldari 0ne Percent.	Posted - 2011.01.25 07:08:00 - [56] Edited by: Sardon Darkstar on 25/01/2011 07:09:51 Originally by: Salacious M Somebody wanted proof? HERE it is. Enjoy. PS: Many people asked why the new character creator offered very few accessories?? http://www.pcgamer.com/2010/11/25/eve-online-plans-to-add-vanity-microtransactions/ That's no proof, that's just more speculation from another source. The link to their source doesn't even work and they haven't bothered to correct it. But CCP introducing microtransactions for vanity items does sound plausible.
Edward Sullen	Posted - 2011.01.25 07:18:00 - [57] Know whats funny? The creators of Star Trek Online shudder said theyd only introduce vanity items through their store too... then decided to add more ships in game through that than anything else
Arthur Frayn Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2011.01.25 07:22:00 - [58] Originally by: Edward Sullen Know whats funny? The creators of Star Trek Online shudder said theyd only introduce vanity items through their store too... then decided to add more ships in game through that than anything else A failing MMO has to try to stay afloat somehow. -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Sullen Skoung	Posted - 2011.01.25 07:41:00 - [59] Originally by: Arthur Frayn Originally by: Edward Sullen Know whats funny? The creators of Star Trek Online shudder said theyd only introduce vanity items through their store too... then decided to add more ships in game through that than anything else A failing MMO has to try to stay afloat somehow. Think thats the OPs point
Caitlyn Tufy	Posted - 2011.01.25 08:00:00 - [60] Edited by: Caitlyn Tufy on 25/01/2011 08:03:15 Magnus Orin above is right - playing for something that might come never turns out well, enjoy what you have now and consider everything else a bonus - that way, everything new will be cool and interesting, not boring and underwhelming. That's the kind of community thinking that pushed me away from WoW, people that always wanted more, more, more, faster, faster, faster. You know what I think about walking in stations? Meh, whatever, let others enjoy that. Me, I want to know what's on the other side of the next wormhole or what the next jump gate might reveal. And guess what - I won't get there by walking or looking at my character's booty. I want to be the Indiana Jones of space, not Jabba the Hutt of Jita, so as far as I'm concerned, Incursions are a much better addition to the game than Incarna could ever live up to be. But if it turns out better than expected, cool, I'll enjoy that then. EDIT: just a side note - eveyone, even the coolest person in the world, can have a moment of ragequit madness. Usually, taking a step back and looking at the bigger picture helps, but if it doesn't, then the person was bound to quit anyway and the latest prod was just what pushed him overboard. Let's face it, eventually we'll all quit, the question is just whether we're bored with the game now or not. Me, I'm fully enjoying it, so it'll take a long while before I'm there.
Cyaxares II	Posted - 2011.01.25 08:04:00 - [61] Edited by: Cyaxares II on 25/01/2011 08:08:02 Originally by: Professor Tarantula But now, after all these years, what if Incarna is the biggest pile of BS hype yet? The Live Dev Blog yesterday did finally lay the myth of player designed clothing to rest - message was: we want you eventually to be able to project your corp logo on your clothing or have some sort of corp uniform but no player-designed clothes in the foreseeable future. (don't have a transcript available to quote verbatim but I am certain that my memory serves me right rgd the core mesage) Now, only the idea of player-operated night clubs has to die and we're closing in on reality. Again it was confirmed that CCP intends to use the staggered release approach in the future and elsewhere it has been stated that it will probably be applied to Incarna. This is a great excuse to give you walking, captain's quarters and maybe some meeting areas in a select number of stations at Incarna release while gradually adding any actual gameplay content and expanding the number of stations in which Incarna is available (and the population limits for individual areas) over a period of several months. Also every question related to PI was answered with "we are working really hard on the DUST link and have absolutely no idea what we are going to do after that". -- <Abuser> Won't the wave of intelligent bots make CCP work at least in the direction of securing the engine? <[IA]Morpheus> Of course it will, that's obvious.
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.25 08:11:00 - [62] Originally by: Cyaxares II Edited by: Cyaxares II on 25/01/2011 08:08:02 Originally by: Professor Tarantula But now, after all these years, what if Incarna is the biggest pile of BS hype yet? The Live Dev Blog yesterday did finally lay the myth of player designed clothing to rest - message was: we want you eventually to be able to project your corp logo on your clothing or have some sort of corp uniform but no player-designed clothes in the foreseeable future. (don't have a transcript available to quote verbatim but I am certain that my memory serves me right rgd the core mesage) Now, only the idea of player-operated night clubs has to die and we're closing in on reality. Again it was confirmed that CCP intends to use the staggered release approach in the future and elsewhere it has been stated that it will probably be applied to Incarna. This is a great excuse to give you walking, captain's quarters and maybe some meeting areas in a select number of stations at Incarna release while gradually adding any actual gameplay content and expanding the number of stations in which Incarna is available (and the population limits for individual areas) over a period of several months. Also every question related to PI was answered with "we are working really hard on the DUST link and have absolutely no idea what we are going to do after that". Well I'de say the futures looking pretty blea...err.. bright! Yes, that's it... bright.
Rakshasa Taisab Caldari Sane Industries Inc. Initiative Mercenaries	Posted - 2011.01.25 08:15:00 - [63] Did anyone post yet that the ship customization thing was a troll? Did not read further.
Palpatine III Amarr	Posted - 2011.01.25 08:28:00 - [64] Originally by: Cyaxares II Edited by: Cyaxares II on 25/01/2011 08:18:38 With regards to development of the new UI CCP "dropped the bomb" that they have just (as in half of the company is not even aware of this yet) have assigned one developer to work full-time on the UI. Seriously? I may have got this wrong, but what I heard is that they just assigned CCP Shark to be the lead game designer for the UI. Not that he would be the only one working on it. That's just crazy talk!
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.25 08:29:00 - [65] Originally by: Rakshasa Taisab Did anyone post yet that the ship customization thing was a troll? Did not read further. One of those obvious things that most people didn't need to be told but we leave unsaid to weed out the weaker and slower among us. Make its easier for pirates to cull the herd.
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.01.25 08:32:00 - [66] Originally by: Palpatine III I may have got this wrong, but what I heard is that they just assigned CCP Shark to be the lead game designer for the UI. Not that he would be the only one working on it. That's just crazy talk! 1 is up from 0.
Xailia Unsteady Corporation	Posted - 2011.01.25 08:33:00 - [67] Originally by: Palpatine III ...I may have got this wrong, but what I heard is that they just assigned CCP Shark to be the lead game designer for the UI. Not that he would be the only one working on it. That's just crazy talk! But he has the teeth of 10 men! "The sky above the port was the color of a television, tuned to a dead channel."
Quemist	Posted - 2011.01.25 08:36:00 - [68] Some of you may not know or may not realize that many years ago when some of us were starting WIS/Ambulation was promised as something "coming soon" and was being hyped up. It became something we expected to be added to EVE soooon and it became part of our noob dreams. A dream stolen from us, breaking our once innocent noob hearts. Turning some of us into wretch bitter vets all on its own before we even cosider all the other dissapointments.
mkmin	Posted - 2011.01.25 08:39:00 - [69] Originally by: Quemist Some of you may not know or may not realize that many years ago when some of us were starting WIS/Ambulation was promised as something "coming soon" and was being hyped up. It became something we expected to be added to EVE soooon and it became part of our noob dreams. A dream stolen from us, breaking our once innocent noob hearts. Turning some of us into wretch bitter vets all on its own before we even cosider all the other dissapointments. lol, I started as a bitternoob. Transition was easier for me. :P
Cyaxares II	Posted - 2011.01.25 08:49:00 - [70] Originally by: Palpatine III Originally by: Cyaxares II Edited by: Cyaxares II on 25/01/2011 08:18:38 With regards to development of the new UI CCP "dropped the bomb" that they have just (as in half of the company is not even aware of this yet) have assigned one developer to work full-time on the UI. Seriously? I may have got this wrong, but what I heard is that they just assigned CCP Shark to be the lead game designer for the UI. Not that he would be the only one working on it. That's just crazy talk! yes, although I am not sure whether it was indeed lead game designer UI or just lead designer UI. However, consider that they obviously didn't have this position before - I think that can tell us a lot about the state of UI development so far. If they had a dedicated UI development team all the time how did they do without some design lead? my guess would be that they have had a couple of developers that did UI design & programming as a secondary role whenever new UIs/UI reworks were due and the emphasis in my (somewhat sarcastic) comment was meant to be on "fulltime". -- <Abuser> Won't the wave of intelligent bots make CCP work at least in the direction of securing the engine? <[IA]Morpheus> Of course it will, that's obvious.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.25 09:20:00 - [71] Originally by: Professor Tarantula Not very long ago, T'Amber resigned from CSM after becoming privy to certain details about the direction the game was going which, for some unclarified reason, caused such a devoted EVE player to sell their character in disgust. The general consensus was that it was over microtransactions, or EVE becoming free to play. From T'Amber videos an posts it was about microtransactions, in particular about the [then scrapped] remap for plex. Originally by: Professor Tarantula I didn't think much of it until the ship modification for PLEX 'leak', which revolved around an alleged screenshot of the service You mean the photo shopped pics? Or you have a link to something more credible? Originally by: Professor Tarantula but maybe T'Amber just had an extreme hatred for all things PLEX, or something. Right. Search his videos on the Jita park speaking corner and T'amber resignation. Here Originally by: T'Amber Due to my stance on Microtransactions as the character T'amber I can not in good conscience purchase PLEX. While the effort I put into the game returns a high emotional reward (and I get to meet some cool people) with the coming changes to the payment model and the way that I personally play this is nolonger enough for me nor do I wish to continue paying cash for the amount of work and effort that I put into the game and the community. Originally by: Professor Tarantula It's only earlier tonight, after a couple mysterious comments made by another decent individual from the CSM, that i began to wonder if maybe things aren't so much worse than just PLEX for vanity items or the game going f2p. Care to link the thread? CCP hasn't promised much for Incarna (in reality almost nothing) and beside some nice pic I don't recall any direct hype. Most of what was said is extremely generic. Most of the hype is from player requesting/wanting some specific feature that was specifically excluded from Incarna read the "fight in station2 thread in the Assembly Hall). Probably Incarna is meant to be a PLEX sink with new hairstyles and clothing costing centiPlex (1/100 of a PLEX) or something similar. So far nothing that will change the spaceship part of EVE.
Siona Windweaver Placeholder Holdings	Posted - 2011.01.25 09:27:00 - [72] Anyone who thinks its (Incarna) going to be anything other than rudimentary walking, basic emotes is delusional. Anyone who thinks the improvements (favorite word, iterations) to the incarna to be anything other than very heavy micro-transaction based features is also delusional.
Cyaxares II	Posted - 2011.01.25 09:40:00 - [73] Edited by: Cyaxares II on 25/01/2011 09:44:25 Originally by: Venkul Mul Care to link the thread? CCP hasn't promised much for Incarna (in reality almost nothing) and beside some nice pic I don't recall any direct hype. Most of what was said is extremely generic. Most of the hype is from player requesting/wanting some specific feature that was specifically excluded from Incarna read the "fight in station2 thread in the Assembly Hall). Many players seem to have formed their expectations along the lines of the Fanfest 2008 ambulation/WiS presentations - Linkage (especially the "WIS Enviroments" video), CCP also presented a playable demo of WiS with some rooms and minigames at FanFest 2008. All the talk about player-designed clothing, player-operated bars, customizable NPCs to serve as your employees, ... originated at that Fanfest and was presented by CCP as "we want you to be able to do <x>". Comments like "we played it a lot and it's very fun" did contribute to the impression that the groundwork of WiS was finished and the only thing missing was some polishing and additional content. My guess is that at some point between 2008 and today the WiS was rebooted and the underlying technology was changed by a lot (probably in connection with WoD development and the Corification of EVE) - thus rendering much of the old code and art assets moot and making WiS as presented on Fanfest 2008 little more than a mockup of what Incarna might look like. Today CSM has probably seen less of Incarna than the public had seen of WiS in 2008. -- <Abuser> Won't the wave of intelligent bots make CCP work at least in the direction of securing the engine? <[IA]Morpheus> Of course it will, that's obvious.
Barbelo Valentinian Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.01.25 09:44:00 - [74] It's positively biblical, the lack of faith people have in CCP, despite CCP's consistent track record in sustaining one of the best MMOs in the world at the moment ... I dunno, it seems to me that the new "staggered" approach is exactly what the doctor ordered, it seems to have enabled CCP to iterate on PI while introducing something new, and that bodes well. Microtransactions and f2p I don't care about, it's obviously the way of the future (if it's based on a "pay for as much of the game as you use"/market segmentation version like Turbine's). Provided CCP continue with this "introduce something new/iterate or fix something old" approach, then even if Incarna's a bit barebones to start with, people won't mind. However if old things continue to be left languishing, people will be upset if Incarna's barebones to start with. ***** "To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding
James Tiberius Kirk	Posted - 2011.01.25 09:51:00 - [75] Edited by: James Tiberius Kirk on 25/01/2011 09:52:30 Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian It's positively biblical, the lack of faith people have in CCP, despite CCP's consistent track record in sustaining one of the best MMOs in the world at the moment ... Only because there is no alternative. CCP has a proven track record of releasing broken features. Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian I dunno, it seems to me that the new "staggered" approach is exactly what the doctor ordered, it seems to have enabled CCP to iterate on PI while introducing something new, and that bodes well. They did this only after the enormous about of ****fest they received when they released they couldn't iterate on ANYTHING for the next 18 months. They had to bite it after the backlash.
Quemist	Posted - 2011.01.25 09:52:00 - [76] Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian It's positively biblical, the lack of faith people have in CCP, despite CCP's consistent track record in sustaining one of the best MMOs in the world at the moment ... I dunno, it seems to me that the new "staggered" approach is exactly what the doctor ordered, it seems to have enabled CCP to iterate on PI while introducing something new, and that bodes well. Microtransactions and f2p I don't care about, it's obviously the way of the future (if it's based on a "pay for as much of the game as you use"/market segmentation version like Turbine's). Provided CCP continue with this "introduce something new/iterate or fix something old" approach, then even if Incarna's a bit barebones to start with, people won't mind. However if old things continue to be left languishing, people will be upset if Incarna's barebones to start with. Your post is going in a case study concerning wether fanboys think differently from an average sane individual.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.25 09:55:00 - [77] Originally by: Bhattran If people haven't read the threads on what content people want/wish for Incarna they should because it won't be anything like that for a long time and probably never will even get close it. The ideas for gameplay as an avatar in those threads, if CCP was doing that, would be awesome but anyone who looks at CCP's history knows they aren't. CCP will probably develop the stuff people want as it will be used for Word of Darknes and the engine will be [mostly] compatible with EVE Incarna. The probable time for development will not be under a year from now as WoD is scheduled for 2012 [and I think winter 2012 at best]. What some people dream of is to get a completely new game that will not impact current the spaceship game but at the same time will be complete and compelling for the summer 2011 release of Incarna. That part of that expansion instead almost certainly will be an add on with a few functions that will not impact the internet spaceship game, mostly a glorified chat room with some added feature. If, like Prof. Tarantula, someone has re-subscribed hoping for a something big in the first iteration of walking in station they will be almost certainly disappointed, if they are in the spaceship part of the game and feel that Incarna is only a nice add on I think they will appreciate it. From my point of view the limited expansion will not break the game while a expansion with a lot of functionalities impinging on the spaceship game from the starter will have a high risk of breaking it, so I am more favorable to the "one step at a time" approach for Incarna.
P42ALPHA	Posted - 2011.01.25 10:01:00 - [78] I just hope all the colors in the stations are shiny. I have a qestion, is Incarna going to have any features that accualy apply to the game, the one we play in space? I can see it now, no more ship spinning, ppl spinning. For all the ppl that look forward to this, cause who spends more then 2 min in a station anyhow.
Cyaxares II	Posted - 2011.01.25 10:07:00 - [79] Edited by: Cyaxares II on 25/01/2011 10:07:23 At this point Incarna seems to have some amazing parallels to Windows Vista. Extremely ambitious project with some really innovative ideas. First prototypes are built, presentations about all the cool tech are being made & customers expectations are getting hyped. Project gets delayed. Project gets rebooted using a different codebase (MS: Server 2003 SP1/CCP: Carbon/WoD) and gets a new name. Innovative features get downscaled extremely or scrapped completely (take pleasure in the fact that some pieces of WinFS made it into MSSQL server). Product reaches market several years after the original hype and doesn't offer anything revolutionary apart from a more shiny and much more resource intensive UI to do the same stuff as before - customers are heavily disappointed. Spend the next 2 years fixing regressions and bringing the product to the state in which it should have been on the first release. -- <Abuser> Won't the wave of intelligent bots make CCP work at least in the direction of securing the engine? <[IA]Morpheus> Of course it will, that's obvious.
Sader Rykane Amarr Midnight Sentinels Midnight Space Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.25 10:08:00 - [80] Originally by: P42ALPHA I just hope all the colors in the stations are shiny. I have a qestion, is Incarna going to have any features that accualy apply to the game, the one we play in space? I can see it now, no more ship spinning, ppl spinning. For all the ppl that look forward to this, cause who spends more then 2 min in a station anyhow. Ship spinning by default is an engaging and time consuming activity that can take weeks and months to perfect. This sometime takes hours of practice everyday.
Malephar	Posted - 2011.01.25 10:19:00 - [81] Edited by: Malephar on 25/01/2011 10:19:22 Originally by: Serra Polaris I'll be disappointed if we see microtransactions for clothing, it just ruins the immersion. Buying a Plex with isk/money is fine, but it ruins it when I buy clothing for the same price I could have bought 3-5 fully fit battleships. What if theres a storyline reasons... eg, the clothes you buy and wear have very expensive pod-less pod technology, so you can still wake up in a clone if you die outside the ship?
Malephar	Posted - 2011.01.25 10:22:00 - [82] Originally by: Palpatine III Originally by: Cyaxares II Edited by: Cyaxares II on 25/01/2011 08:18:38 With regards to development of the new UI CCP "dropped the bomb" that they have just (as in half of the company is not even aware of this yet) have assigned one developer to work full-time on the UI. Seriously? I may have got this wrong, but what I heard is that they just assigned CCP Shark to be the lead game designer for the UI. Not that he would be the only one working on it. That's just crazy talk! Leading the redevelopment of the UI is probably top of the list of thankless tasks that every CCP employee wants to avoid getting given. Poor Shark!
P42ALPHA	Posted - 2011.01.25 10:41:00 - [83] Originally by: Malephar Edited by: Malephar on 25/01/2011 10:19:22 Originally by: Serra Polaris I'll be disappointed if we see microtransactions for clothing, it just ruins the immersion. Buying a Plex with isk/money is fine, but it ruins it when I buy clothing for the same price I could have bought 3-5 fully fit battleships. What if theres a storyline reasons... eg, the clothes you buy and wear have very expensive pod-less pod technology, so you can still wake up in a clone if you die outside the ship? Would that not be a game changing feature, so why would they add that to micro-transactions? If ccp really wants to make money off of players, add a ship spinning tax, that can only be paid in plex. Use up all ur spins, camera is stuck (eg. "Video Transmiting Probe")Then u must insert plex into a machanical station attendent for more fun spinning. Or we can just wait till the holidays and get some free spins What was this topic about? oh ya doom and gloom. Blah Blah Blah Game is still a ton of fun. Walking in stations is just fluff, but it better be shiny fluff!!
My Postman	Posted - 2011.01.25 10:56:00 - [84] The OP¦s worries MIGHT be valid. Talking about the last deliveries (beside Apocrypha which was very good), quality control is failing. Look at the lag monster - this should have been solved since MONTHS. Look at FW - do i need to quote? Look at PI - carpal tunnel syndrome, i quit after 3 days. Today the first incursions are hitting. Carebears will fleet up and lose their officer pimped Nightmares, Golems and T3¦s because of broken aggro management while RRing. Those ppl playing for ruining anotherones day will win. Again. May the first BPC from the final blow be ninja¦ed. Just watch the ****storm on forums, beginning tomorrow. If you want to "socialise" players, if you want them to group up and fight the incursion, to interact and maybe find new friends, this is not possible with current (aggro) mechanics. They would have to solve this first. Experianced forum dwellers knew my rage when removing learning skills, and my engagement against microtransactions (remap for plex, and MT at all). Introducing this and spoiling "Dancing in Station", and my days here are done. Finally i have to say i do look forward to Incarna, lets all hope the best.
Zeal Chi	Posted - 2011.01.25 10:59:00 - [85] So what if Incarna fails?!? To be playing the game for 4years or how ever long just to walk in stations later is so so silly Im here to fly internet space ships. And the walking in stations is far better than spinning your ship in the dock.
Mashie Saldana Minmatar Veto Corp	Posted - 2011.01.25 11:07:00 - [86] Originally by: Professor Tarantula I didn't think much of it until the ship modification for PLEX 'leak', which revolved around an alleged screenshot of the service, but once again that doesn't really bother me too much, even if the customization options were pretty compelling and could only be done via PLEX. It reinforced the idea microtransactions are what T'Amber quit over, but does that really make sense? Vanity items for PLEX is something everyone seems to be fairly ok with, and you wouldn't think it's worth quitting over, but maybe T'Amber just had an extreme hatred for all things PLEX, or something. You DO know that those "leaked" screenshots were photoshop creations by T'Amber right? I don't know if you are trolling or have been trolled tbh...
egegergergsdgedgege	Posted - 2011.01.25 11:22:00 - [87] Hi. Incarna will be nothing more than a ºD-chatroom with some fancy graphics. CCP will use it to sell us some virtual clothes and hats. The fact that there is a NDA and the CSM members seam not too happy about what they already know does not surprise me. CCP has not delivered a single thing that could be called "excellent" since years. I donte expect Incarna to be any different. I just regret that i have a yearly subscription otherwise i would already be gone.
Brooks Puuntai Minmatar Nomadic Asylum	Posted - 2011.01.25 11:24:00 - [88] Edited by: Brooks Puuntai on 25/01/2011 11:25:27 T'Amber did make those. However it was done to bring up a good point. Its already obvious that CCP is pushing micro-transactions however atm they have to settle for just vanity items. If you allow it for one thing it then becomes a slippery slope. I to share the same opinion as T'Amber as the fact that this is a pay to play game not a F2P what CCP is trying to do is build a hybrid system which is a mix of monthly sub and micro-transactions. To me this is just CCP getting desperate and/or greedy.
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express The Spire Collective	Posted - 2011.01.25 11:42:00 - [89] I've been here since 2005. Incarna has always been the proverbial carrot, its what they've used for years. It is clear they cannot reach the level they are seeking. Everyone knows that. Anyone that believes they really worked on it for the last 4 years is fooling themselves. But I think EVE is in trouble for other reasons. Every expansion the last 2 years, they release a half ass expansion. They then patch it on the Friday after its release. That patch generally breaks more than the first one did. They then let folks post over the weekend, never respond and eventually unsticky the issues/feedback thread. While they ignore what they've broken, whether intentionally or not, they tout whatever new thing they've put out. Like for instance yesterday we had the live dev touting the merits of the character creator and the PI. Its smoke and mirrors nothing more. The fact they've not commented on the many issues raised shows that they really have no idea how they broke the many systems in the game. Which also means they have to idea how to fix it. They hope the eye candy lasts long enough that they can eventually figure out what they did and reverse it. When I first joined expansions were very large. They introduced all kinds of ships and ideas. The last couple of years they've been more targeted. Some have been successful like Wormholes. Some have been utter failures like Faction Warfare. However they never go back and really attempt to revamp these systems. After about a month or two of patching they leave it as is regardless of whether it needs more work. Most of what they do change is at odds with their stated goals. They've long wanted more folks to leave hi sec for low sec. Yet they do not seriously work on the reasons folks do not go there. Some folks think it is because of the danger, that's not the real problem. In a way it contributes but it is really a symptom of the problem. The real problem is that it is not possible for casual players to make enough money to progress and replace their materials. The main problem with this is how 0.0 is structured, there is simply not enough infrastructure. If everyone in empire today gathered and left to 0.0 they'd find a barren landscape. There would not be enough stations for them to dock at. Without missions, there are not enough belts or anomalies to provide. That's the greatest failing of Dominion. The Dominion system at its heart is a good idea, but it needs improvements. They say they want small and medium corps to move out to 0.0 but a small or medium corp cannot meet the high numbers that are required to keep indexes up, particularly industry index. They set them high thinking that would prohibit the large alliances, but it does not, they have the people to do it whether it is high or low. But the small and medium alliances cannot compete because of that bar. Now they talk about doing away with jump bridges, which is really foolish. Jump bridges in themselves are not the problem. The problem lies in other systems of the game which remain out of balance. A rebalancing of moon materials throughout 0.0 would most likely take care of any jump bridge problem. This is what worries me, they do not seem to either understand the problem, or they are truly unwilling to make the changes needed. Make it easier to upkeep military and industry indexes, increase the number of static belts, add more ice belts, increase anomalies from upgrades, increase belts from upgrades, add at least 1 of each mini site to each system, decrease cost of constructing infrastructure like outposts, allow wormhole corporations to claim and build in their space, allow them upgrades, increase the size of space (another few thousand systems...both 0.0 and wormhole), the people cannot move to 0.0 unless they have enough to do, even with danger at their door they'll go so long as they can make a decent living for themselves and they'll even tolerate loss if they can replace. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. -Mitnal
Ben Alman Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.25 11:52:00 - [90] What worries me deeply is that the other "never being released anyway" myth will finally be released this year. And if Duke turns out any good after this odysee it would be even more embarrassing for CCP if Incarna turns out to be a joke. Or to cite the Duke release trailer. Quote: -What about the Game was it any good? -Yea but after 12 ****ing years it should be
Brooks Puuntai Minmatar Nomadic Asylum	Posted - 2011.01.25 11:57:00 - [91] Originally by: Mecinia Lua /agreed The reason for the change of direction regarding expansions has already been stated in CSM minutes and acouple interviews. Its the fact that CCP is more focused on pushing out more "new" content to use in marketing to drive up new subs. This is what worries me most about CCPs current direction and if they continue this path EvE will be nothing more then a shell of what it is/was.
Theodoric Darkwind	Posted - 2011.01.25 12:03:00 - [92] Originally by: Arthur Frayn Originally by: Edward Sullen Know whats funny? The creators of Star Trek Online shudder said theyd only introduce vanity items through their store too... then decided to add more ships in game through that than anything else A failing MMO has to try to stay afloat somehow. STO is in its death throes, its going F2P soon and almost the entire dev staff has been pulled to other projects. STO was never intended to last more than 1 year or so, it was a quick buck for paramount and they had no issue with the game being released in the EXTREMELY unfinished state it came out in. Thats what cryptic's specialty is, short lifespan mmos cranked out in a very short timeframe to make a quick buck for the license holder. EVE has many times the active subscribers than STO does, STO had a huge subscriber base for maybe 2 months, then almost their entire subscriber base left by April, in 60 days it went from 2nd only to WoW in sub base to less than 100k active subs (not counting lifers who stopped logging in).
Heimer Minmatar Republic University	Posted - 2011.01.25 12:15:00 - [93] I made a post in the test server forums, a while back. It was regarding the excellent list of improvements to PI the CSM put together versus the extremely few of those ideas that made it into this iteration. The dev blog even linked to the CSM nugget.... links to sources are in that post. ( ) <- planet (not to scale) áááááá --EhonVonnre
Gemberslaafje Vivicide	Posted - 2011.01.25 12:22:00 - [94] Originally by: Theodoric Darkwind Edited by: Theodoric Darkwind on 25/01/2011 12:09:52 Originally by: Arthur Frayn Originally by: Edward Sullen Know whats funny? The creators of Star Trek Online shudder said theyd only introduce vanity items through their store too... then decided to add more ships in game through that than anything else A failing MMO has to try to stay afloat somehow. STO is in its death throes, its going F2P soon and almost the entire dev staff has been pulled to other projects. STO was never intended to last more than 1 year or so, it was a quick buck for paramount and they had no issue with the game being released in the EXTREMELY unfinished state it came out in. Thats what cryptic's specialty is, short lifespan mmos cranked out in a very short timeframe to make a quick buck for the license holder. EVE has many times the active subscribers than STO does, STO had a huge subscriber base for maybe 2 months, then almost their entire subscriber base left by April, in 60 days it went from 2nd only to WoW in sub base to less than 100k active subs (not counting lifers who stopped logging in). EVE will never have the type of sub base that WoW has because its a completely different approach to MMOs than the rest. The rest of the industry is trying to copy blizzard in making wow-like carebear fests with little to any depth to their gameplay. I happen to play both WoW and EVE, I play them for different reasons, I like EVE because of its depth and requiring more than simple button mashing, WoW is for kicking back a few beers and slaying internet dragons with friends. STO was fun for, as you said, 2 months. Then you realise you wouldn't have played it in the first place if it wasn't Star Trek, and then you start realizing some of the more blatant fluff errors, such as the fact that STO actually has an economy - whereas (at least within starfleet) economy has been abolished pretty much altogether in favor of a more communist approach. Which makes 'buying' spaceships and upgrades utter nonsense. I'm one of the guys who stopped his subscription. Unfortunately. It had potential, but it leaned way too much on traditional MMO values to be a game convincing in the Star Trek universe. --- Creator of the Eve Character Appraiser/Assembler: http://gemblog.nl/skill/ http://gemblog.nl/assembler/ Originally by: De'Veldrin Welcome to the ****ing sandbox
Foundation Vox	Posted - 2011.01.25 12:25:00 - [95] OP - Pure Speculation. Sounds like you need a break. I have zero problem with micros as long as they are vanity items (including ships). Like others here have said if they fork up my one and only mmo at least I had fun up until walking in stations "ruins the game for everyone". If they introduce micros into pvp (meaning you need them to compete) then yes. I would most likely cancel. I just don't see that happening. My guess is that these CSM people have their own 0.0 agenda and when CCP revealed that the future held more content for the new player they threw a fit and quit. My 2 isk.
Bellac	Posted - 2011.01.25 12:29:00 - [96] Edited by: Bellac on 25/01/2011 12:30:30 Hmmm - an interesting topic. Alot of the OP appears to be based on speculation but hidden in there are some interesting titbits of more solid information. However, I have to add that IMO microtransactions do not necessarily mean that EvE will be in some way instantly broken. It depends how this is implimented, what can be purchased in store and how much it costs. Currently subs cost about 15 euros a month and in the future if you can play EvE without having to find the subs and only needing to part with 5 or 10 euros a month (for the essentials) because some rich kid wants to pimp up his ride every month then - bottom line being completely mercinary about it - that suits me. CCP need to continue to make a profit or none of us get to play EvE anymore and that is the worst outcome. Micro transactions simply may well be the way all online games will be paid for in a few years time (its not just MMO's look at FPS games like team fortress 2 which makes its money from microtransactions too) Problems will Only arrive however when the rich kid gets an ingame advantage with his purchases. Great care needs to be taken to ensure this NEVER happens, else players WILL leave EvE like rats from a sinking ship, and I will be one of them
Snowbell	Posted - 2011.01.25 12:38:00 - [97] CCP's greatest blessing is that there isn't a viable other sci-fi game available so they can get away with anything. I'm not kidding. They laid down a very decent foundation but what they're building on that the past year(s) ... not very impressive.
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2011.01.25 12:43:00 - [98] Originally by: Cyaxares II Again it was confirmed that CCP intends to use the staggered release approach in the future and elsewhere it has been stated that it will probably be applied to Incarna. This is a great excuse to give you walking, captain's quarters and maybe some meeting areas in a select number of stations at Incarna release while gradually adding any actual gameplay content and expanding the number of stations in which Incarna is available (and the population limits for individual areas) over a period of several months. Whats the bet WIS is gonna be select 0.0 npc stations only, like BPO --------------------------------------------- Hate Bots / RMT? Do something worthwhile and good for EvE and cause tears and anguish for others, while doing absolutely nothing yourself! Join up.
Mecinia Lua Galactic Express The Spire Collective	Posted - 2011.01.25 12:45:00 - [99] Originally by: Brooks Puuntai Originally by: Mecinia Lua /agreed The reason for the change of direction regarding expansions has already been stated in CSM minutes and acouple interviews. Its the fact that CCP is more focused on pushing out more "new" content to use in marketing to drive up new subs. This is what worries me most about CCPs current direction and if they continue this path EvE will be nothing more then a shell of what it is/was. Which is the path to failure.... SOE followed that road, they had a known IP, one with millions of fans perhaps tens or even hundreds of millions. But their game is a failure. Instead of improving what they had, they kept adding new shinies. Eventually they angered the player base so much that they revolted and left. That mob spread and within a quarter of a year had smeared the game and SOE to the point they've never recovered or had a successful launch of an MMO since. Here is the lesson for CCP, their numbers double in the same quarter, all of that from SWG. Following the same path will lead to the same result. Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts. Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. -Mitnal
Buddy Hairdo Caldari	Posted - 2011.01.25 13:02:00 - [100] I'm a golf pro. And I like to wake up in the morning, climb out of my cardboard box, read the paper and drink a cup of coffee. Then I climb up to the roof and hook up to the wifi and read the forums all day. It saves from yelling at this great city I live in. So as an EvE player although there are numerous aspects to the game, I prefer to stay docked for fear of losing my ships. It's not that I can't afford to lose a ship, it's that replacing all the mods and rigs takes time and I don't like to go shop in Jita, because there are all kinds of lag-monkeys messing with my game there. TL;DR EvE, like all MMOs, is about the community. The community is formed by players with intersecting tastes for game mechanics and features. Drastic game changes draw new types of players to our community. We may not feel too comfortable with these new types. Micro-transaction type players (and incidentally bot/hacks) are not easily welcomed. Gimme PartT!
Vaaleria	Posted - 2011.01.25 13:20:00 - [101] Just a small note: I see people repeating several times that eve has free expansions. I think this statement is slightly unrealistic. First, most respected games on the market have free content updates. I have had MMO experience since 1997 and I have to see a game yet that doesn't release free content. It's really a syntax issue here that CCP calls their game updates "expansions". Eve "expansions", based on development effort needed, are fairly small in comparison to other games and closer to smaller free content updates. While it is true that things like new character creation take time, but the reality is that 1) character creation isn't game content and 2) this is mostly engine work that will be used in other game titels as well anyways. The reality is that eve universe hasn't radically changed at all in the last 8 years. It's still really more of the same. You can update gfx engine all you want, or add new models, or make the same npc ships do same things in a different way and call it new expansions, but the scope of real game expansions is something entirely different. CCP has no choice other than releasing these "expanions" without charge, as otherwise they had to either make them 20 times bigger each, or people would start questioning whether they are worth their 40Ç, which would probably be answered with no in most cases. bottomline: expansion != expansion.
Cailais Amarr Ukomi Syndicate	Posted - 2011.01.25 13:22:00 - [102] CCP as a developer tend to focus upon technical challenges a appearance. My reading of the lack of 'game play' information about either Incarna or DUST is that CCP are doing just that - working on the technical challenge of how you get a Console game to 'talk' to a PC MMO. For Incarna it is how do you get X avatars to appear in a given room with a given quality of graphics. When CCP first delivered EVE the gaming community was impressed with its graphics, rather than its content. I think CCP generally follow this as a 'successful model' to emulate. Then CCP look at how they might sell on that technology (e.g CARBON) to third party developers. Working on that basis I think we can expect Incarna to deliver avatars that move, and look pretty good, but without any revolutionary game experience behind the process. DUST will link to EVE, but it will be generally superficial and largely a marketing tool. C. the hydrostatic capsule blog
Miss Direction Sock Robbers Inc. Syndicate.	Posted - 2011.01.25 13:27:00 - [103] An intresting post, thanks for the read. To be honest my 2 cents worth are that EvE's best feature is unfortunately also its worst and that is PvP involving actual loss unlike other MMO's. The good point of this that makes EvE best is you get far more of a buzz from a PvP encounter than in any other MMO because of the greater element of risk. The greater the risk the greater the buzz. The bad point is that because of the loss people will only fight if they have a decent chance of winning, this makes finding fights time consuming with long periods of nothing followed by short periods of intense action. I dont claim to have any answers to this but I am hoping that something in Incarna may address this. I recently looked at World Of Tanks (which I think has a very short lifespan as an MMO) it gives almost instant access to battles but no real losses so it makes for a nice diversion but not a replacement. The point of this is can EvE accomodate something that allows quick action with less risk as a diversion possibly using the Incursion mechanics with Sansha's paying Pilots for killing other players in systems they are attacking. Feel free to flame these are my views only Alliance Killboard
Aelius Caldari Mnemonic Enterprises Dark Matter Coalition	Posted - 2011.01.25 14:07:00 - [104] Prof. Tarantula, i need to congrat you on the excellent post and future insight. Some times i think CCP forgets that their player base is somewhat different from others... That most of us are grown up men and women ("WTF women in my EVE?!") already with enough RL experience to be able to read the "small print" and to decipher what really lyes beneath all the hype. Yes, most of the times the love that we have for EVE clouds a bit our judgment, but as hyped expansions like Dominion and Tyrannis are launched we begin to develop "EVE Love anti-bodies", what allow us to see a clearer picture about EVE real future. In EVE beginning (trust me on this i was there) CCP weren't just comfortable in doing "average" stuff, there was no such thing as hype, what they were comfortable with was making some risky decisions about their vision of this great game. "Epic but hard to do? No problem lets do it" was CCP moto. I've been playing EVE since DEC 2002 (beta 4) and i've been following CCP steps from when they had like 20 employees till today (more than 400), and alot as changed... but not all for the best. Nowadays they seem to have lost a bit of that early "EVE magic" and some CSM members that still have that magic feel betrayed, because CCP is following the easier route instead of the right route. That "EVE magic" was what kept me with this game for more than 8 years now... longer than any other game i've played... but as the time goes by, the magic feels weaker... replaced at a fast pace with pure big corporate mentality of the Icelandic Korona (ISK) profit. _________________________ CSM Candidate for 2011 (soon a pretty photoshop sig) Aelius 2011 Candidacy Guide Lines
Brooks Puuntai Minmatar Nomadic Asylum	Posted - 2011.01.25 14:27:00 - [105] Originally by: Aelius CCP is following the easier route instead of the right route. p.much sums everything up in one sentence.
Caldariftw123	Posted - 2011.01.25 14:30:00 - [106] Originally by: Aelius Edited by: Aelius on 25/01/2011 14:21:13 Prof. Tarantula, i need to congrat you on the excellent post and future insight. Some times i think CCP forgets that their player base is somewhat different from others... That most of us are grown up men and women ("WTF women in my EVE?!") already with enough RL experience to be able to read the "small print" and to decipher what really lyes beneath all the hype. Just as a random aside, but the average age of an EVE player is LESS than the average age of WOW players. It's a total fallacy to talk about a more mature/grown up customer base in EVE (and totally naive, considering when you look into CAOD .. shudder .. what a pit of morons that is)
GateScout	Posted - 2011.01.25 14:38:00 - [107] TeaDaze is a sniveling idiot. While it's perfectly fine to want (or demand!) more information from CCP, *****ing about a NDA after being given access to data (that the CSM tends to leak anyway) is absurd. Much like the OP, there isn't any substance to the arguments. Proclaiming that "you're otta here" if Incanra is a "bait and switch" is laughable. Walking in Stations was talked about in 2006(?). It may come out in 2011. What is it "supposed" to be? CCP has been vague as hell about it. Maybe that's why there is a NDA? I would bet that they don't know exactly what will come out of it. You're speculating about a product that is painfully undefined. You should expect this. If you look at CCP's general development process, they have ideas, do some development, change course, drop stuff, pick up other stuff, and change some more. If they spelled out what Incarna was going to be now, do you actually believe that is what would be delivered? There is no basis in reality for that. For better or worse, this is how CCP operates. This is known. Expecting otherwise is optimistic at best. Demanding something else is idiotic.
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.01.25 14:55:00 - [108] Originally by: Brooks Puuntai Originally by: Aelius CCP is following the easier route instead of the right route. p.much sums everything up in one sentence. Probably also took them just 2-3 weeks to balance something then. 20 guys/gals are easier and faster to turn around than 400. CCP() wont talk about problems like those.. might not even know where and what problems exist. Just look at the latest Devblog about Bugreports.. ()who is that even.. Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
Barbelo Valentinian Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.01.25 15:00:00 - [109] Originally by: Quemist Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian It's positively biblical, the lack of faith people have in CCP, despite CCP's consistent track record in sustaining one of the best MMOs in the world at the moment ... Your post is going in a case study concerning wether fanboys think differently from an average sane individual. I think the average sane person would concur with me: it's just a game, it's well worth the piddling $14.99 or (more likely) nothing a month you (I mean the collective you who are **ing and moaning here) pay for it, and considering how insanely hard it is to make MMOs you're bloody lucky to have it at all. CCP is not your mom, not your lover or your pet dog, they owe you fk all other than the service you pay them for, that enables you to play in THEIR game that THEY took the life risk of making. That enough of a reality check for you? ***** "To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding
Sophia Amelia Stone	Posted - 2011.01.25 15:13:00 - [110] Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian CCP is not your mom, not your lover or your pet dog, they owe you f**k all other than the service you pay them for, that enables you to play in THEIR game. Actually, I'm still waiting for that service. Guess petitions are very much hit and miss.
Berke Negri Caldari RPS holdings	Posted - 2011.01.25 15:33:00 - [111] to save time all :bittervets: in this thread should just quit and give me their stuff, thanks
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.01.25 16:00:00 - [112] Originally by: Berke Negri to save time all :bittervets: in this thread should just quit and give me their stuff, thanks We're just discussing here you kacknoob. And if I ever should quit, my stuff goes with me.. but for that CCP would need to screw up royally and imho we're far from that. Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
Kengutsi Akira	Posted - 2011.01.25 16:08:00 - [113] Originally by: Quemist Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian It's positively biblical, the lack of faith people have in CCP, despite CCP's consistent track record in sustaining one of the best MMOs in the world at the moment ... I dunno, it seems to me that the new "staggered" approach is exactly what the doctor ordered, it seems to have enabled CCP to iterate on PI while introducing something new, and that bodes well. Microtransactions and f2p I don't care about, it's obviously the way of the future (if it's based on a "pay for as much of the game as you use"/market segmentation version like Turbine's). Provided CCP continue with this "introduce something new/iterate or fix something old" approach, then even if Incarna's a bit barebones to start with, people won't mind. However if old things continue to be left languishing, people will be upset if Incarna's barebones to start with. Your post is going in a case study concerning wether fanboys think differently from an average sane individual. Funny given that Im not a fanboy, I actually highly dislike the company that runs this game but where precisely have they shown that theyre gonna microtranact up the game? I think we've had it pretty damn goon for free expansions an everything till now
Kengutsi Akira	Posted - 2011.01.25 16:12:00 - [114] Originally by: Vaaleria Just a small note: I see people repeating several times that eve has free expansions. I think this statement is slightly unrealistic. First, most respected games on the market have free content updates. I have had MMO experience since 1997 and I have to see a game yet that doesn't release free content. It's really a syntax issue here that CCP calls their game updates "expansions". Eve "expansions", based on development effort needed, are fairly small in comparison to other games and closer to smaller free content updates. While it is true that things like new character creation take time, but the reality is that 1) character creation isn't game content and 2) this is mostly engine work that will be used in other game titels as well anyways. The reality is that eve universe hasn't radically changed at all in the last 8 years. It's still really more of the same. You can update gfx engine all you want, or add new models, or make the same npc ships do same things in a different way and call it new expansions, but the scope of real game expansions is something entirely different. CCP has no choice other than releasing these "expanions" without charge, as otherwise they had to either make them 20 times bigger each, or people would start questioning whether they are worth their 40Ç, which would probably be answered with no in most cases. bottomline: expansion != expansion. Id be ****ed too if I had to pay someone for EVE content noone else had to pay for like you think you have
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.01.25 16:28:00 - [115] All of you QQing that Incarna may be such a huge flop are forgetting, it's not going to be the core of the EVE gameplay experience, and probably never will be unless they add FPS to it. Who cares if it's pretty barebones when it's released? Wtf do you expect to be doing but standing around gawking at each other and doing some silly RP crap in stations? The core of the EVE Online experience is based around flying around in spaceships and economics. Having a body and emoting till your heart's content is not going to change the basis of the game. Let them release a barebones version, it's probably in their best interests to do so. Once it's out and people have a chance to mess with it, then they can build on the feedback they get and improve it. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2011.01.25 16:30:00 - [116] Originally by: Professor Tarantula Snipped Not that what you say isn't happening or inaccurate, but it's just too much speculation. I won't lie, it makes a little uneasy to read your post, especially since you tend to be one of the most sensible posters that frequent the forums. But at the same time, I think you may be overreacting. I guess time will reveal what the true plans are. Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2011.01.25 16:42:00 - [117] Originally by: Barakkus snip Let them release a barebones version, it's probably in their best interests to do so. Once it's out and people have a chance to mess with it, then they can build on the feedback they get and improve it. That's usually the part which goes horribly wrong and takes ages with CCP. Get rid of Rooms with Doors - Shortrange Jumpdrives for everybody!
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.01.25 16:44:00 - [118] Originally by: Tres Farmer Originally by: Barakkus snip Let them release a barebones version, it's probably in their best interests to do so. Once it's out and people have a chance to mess with it, then they can build on the feedback they get and improve it. That's usually the part which goes horribly wrong and takes ages with CCP. I don't know, honestly, I may disagree with some of the **** they do, but overall, CCP is one of the better MMO developers on the market right now, and have been for quite a while. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Nuela	Posted - 2011.01.25 16:46:00 - [119] Edited by: Nuela on 25/01/2011 16:47:19 Originally by: Professor Tarantula[quote CCP releases this content without charging any player a dime for it. Well, realistically in terms of traditional expansion prices. You're still paying your subscription, etc. and that cost shouldn't be ignored. But in essence you're getting a conceptually "free" expansion. I can understand holding them to task for under delivering if the advertised content is actually part of a paid expansion. But when it's free? This is as much a curse as a blessing. Look at how much is added to games which charge for expansions and the polish they have. Not charging can be a license to slack off when it comes to them, because "hey, it's free". Yes! People need to realize that not charging is BAD. You get what you pay for....well, you get at most no more than what you pay for. Many years ago I resolved to never play an MMO that DIDN'T have a monthly fee for this reason. The same can be said for expansions...if they charged $40 for an expansion and it had little content, wasn't polished and full of slacking off then it would be company suicide. So they would make sure that it was done right. In addition, they could expect an infusion of cash from it so they would have more resources to dedicate to it. Free expansions just mean the company devotes as little resources to it in order to keep the game from dying. If you want quality, you need to pay for it. People do not really seem to understand this.
Barbelo Valentinian Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2011.01.25 16:53:00 - [120] Originally by: Barakkus some silly RP crap in stations? Agree with the general tenor of your post, but I have to express my umbrage at your dissing of RP Just to interpose a random thread derailment: I used to be of your opinion till I joined a hardcore RP guild in AoC, just to see what it was all this girly RP crap was all about. You think you've experienced adrenalin dump from PvP? Let me tell you, you have no idea what an adrenalin dump is until you've tried some hardcore RP! See, with PvP in an MMO, unlike PvP in an FPS, you're still hiding behind something - stats, time put into the game, etc., etc. With RP you are totally exposed, it's just you, and if you don't hit the right note to go with the conversational flow and the development of a story, you embarass yourself (and your Guild or whatever, if you're representing an in-game RP group) to a much greater degree than mere PvP nonsense. It's not for everyone. It's a bit like musicians jamming really, and takes a certain kind of skill that not everyone has (to listen on the one hand, and then to be able to boldly impose yourself and fly at the right moment). But it's by far the most electrifying thing you can do in a videogame (presuming the right crowd of course), quite on a par with, and sometimes exceeding the excitement of combat PvP. Try it and see! ***** "To wake up is to wake the world up" - D.E. Harding
El'Niaga Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.01.25 16:58:00 - [121] Originally by: Brooks Puuntai Originally by: Aelius CCP is following the easier route instead of the right route. p.much sums everything up in one sentence. "Is the Dark Side stronger" .....Luke Skywalker "No, Easier, Quicker, More Seductive it is".....Master Yoda
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.01.25 16:59:00 - [122] Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian But it's by far the most electrifying thing you can do in a videogame (presuming the right crowd of course), quite on a par with, and sometimes exceeding the excitement of combat PvP. Try it and see! I have, EVE wasn't my first MMO, and I found it to be rather pointless and silly...I'd much rather pwn faces :P - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Corporal Punishment08 NosWaffle Nostradamus Effect	Posted - 2011.01.25 17:06:00 - [123] Walking in stations? I started playing this game for internet spaceships. I saw the add, got the free download, put it off for the first 6 days cause I didn't have time to create a character. Then I did, now I don't have time for anything else :P Seriously though, if you started playing a spaceship game for the in-station stuff...that's kinda weird don't ya think?
Shakira MILF	Posted - 2011.01.25 18:44:00 - [124] A lot of whining and melodramatic drivel here. Either play the game as it is or don't play it, seems pretty simple. Anyone who thinks Incarna has been a long wait probably hasn't been waiting for Duke Nukem Forever. As far as T'Amber quitting over the fact the game may not fit HIS vision of how things should be, man cry me a river...
Tather Demaleon	Posted - 2011.01.25 19:40:00 - [125] Sup, I sold T'amber and my other characters to prove a point. I gave up my best and most well known characters and stopped doing something I'd put almost 5years of love and time into; both for ingame reasons (The way I rp'd T'amber) and to proove a point and raise awareness about the possible problems with Microtransactions and the potential damage to the game and the community. Whether or not you were or are Pro or Against (or just don't care) - the point was to bring as much attention to this topic as possible and in any way that I could. Why? Because I believed in this product and wanted people to keep enjoying it for as long as possible and for CCP to get to that place in the gaming industry that they already think they're at. Yes there are some problems with the company, the game and the community - but these problems are far outweighed by the new ideas and other positives that have and still come from Eve and I believed that legitamizing and introducing more Microtransactions could delay or even stop this from happening. There were no second thoughts to my decision and regardless of what you thought then or think now, the sacrifice of this part of my gaming life (which I will probably never get to experience again) was worth it and partially successful with CCP promising Vanity Only MTs. The october CSM summit did help to make this decision as one of the things I was expecting and looking forward to from Incarna was the ability to program NPCs and if any of you had taken part in any of my numerous non-profit events you'd have understood how **ed I was when I found out that this advertised feature wasn't included in their current plans for Incarna - from the videos from the '07 Fanfest it looked like this and alot more were already partially coded. It is these videos that spurred me to start making pictures of "Features" funnily enough - theres some irony in there if you can be arsed looking. Originally by:** Grau Wulf The whole PLEX for ship customisation and for character tattoo 'screenshots' were complete fakes, and seem to appear in troll posts hoping to ignite some rage. So I wouldn't take them seriously. Click for Full Screen I'm sure I don't know what you are talking about. The fact that the person who bought one of my other good accounts gave it back for free hasn't helped much as I've found you can't quit Eve until Eve quits you. I've not bought any new characters although I've made quite a few trial accounts while playing with the new character creator and I do log in occasionally to help the new owner of Ships of Eve, Selene D'Celeste and I still prowl the forums on my numerous breaks at work. [td.]
Ssakaa Minmatar December Inc.	Posted - 2011.01.25 21:13:00 - [126] Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian But it's by far the most electrifying thing you can do in a videogame (presuming the right crowd of course), quite on a par with, and sometimes exceeding the excitement of combat PvP. Well said. It's just that EVE ... doesn't have much of the above at the moment. If you have a sneak listen in on PIE Inc. or Ghost Festival/Naraka (or whatever they're called nowadays), you'll find it thriving on a level that would be exciting, as you described -and all due credit to them. But examples such as these seem to be very isolated pockets these days. I've been chasing down 'hardcore'* RP corps for the longest time for exactly the thrill you mention as I previously experienced on a near-daily basis in, say, Aetolia: The Midnight Age MUD, but without any success at all. It's to be hoped that Incarna will attract at least some of the 'third person RP' MUD/MUSH refugees from that seemingly dying breed of MMO to keep players like you and I happy with a sufficient RP playerbase with which to work with. If not, well, WoD maybe. Who knows. *Whatever your definition of hardcore RP might be.
Sieges	Posted - 2011.01.25 21:40:00 - [127] Originally by: Chelone I get about, oh, ONE FPS in the new character creator. I can deal with it by putting the shader on low for most of it, then switching to high to make sure it looks right and finishing out at molasses speed. This^^^ Why is it soooo slooooooooooooow?
Archbeholder	Posted - 2011.01.25 22:09:00 - [128] Edited by: Archbeholder on 25/01/2011 22:14:00 Edited by: Archbeholder on 25/01/2011 22:09:45 Originally by: Bellac Edited by: Bellac on 25/01/2011 12:30:30 Hmmm - an interesting topic. Alot of the OP appears to be based on speculation but hidden in there are some interesting titbits of more solid information. However, I have to add that IMO microtransactions do not necessarily mean that EvE will be in some way instantly broken. It depends how this is implimented, what can be purchased in store and how much it costs. Currently subs cost about 15 euros a month and in the future if you can play EvE without having to find the subs and only needing to part with 5 or 10 euros a month (for the essentials) because some rich kid wants to pimp up his ride every month then - bottom line being completely mercinary about it - that suits me. CCP need to continue to make a profit or none of us get to play EvE anymore and that is the worst outcome. Micro transactions simply may well be the way all online games will be paid for in a few years time (its not just MMO's look at FPS games like team fortress 2 which makes its money from microtransactions too) Problems will Only arrive however when the rich kid gets an ingame advantage with his purchases. Great care needs to be taken to ensure this NEVER happens, else players WILL leave EvE like rats from a sinking ship, and I will be one of them It's funny how everyone shakes their fist and threatens to quit as soon as you could buy non vanity stuff for real money, yet this is already in game, pay 35$ and get 700kk. I dont see many people leaving. Originally by: Snowbell CCP's greatest blessing is that there isn't a viable other sci-fi game available so they can get away with anything. I'm not kidding. They laid down a very decent foundation but what they're building on that the past year(s) ... not very impressive. This is the main reason exactly. 0 competition. Originally by: Vaaleria Just a small note: I see people repeating several times that eve has free expansions. I think this statement is slightly unrealistic. First, most respected games on the market have free content updates. I have had MMO experience since 1997 and I have to see a game yet that doesn't release free content. It's really a syntax issue here that CCP calls their game updates "expansions". Eve "expansions", based on development effort needed, are fairly small in comparison to other games and closer to smaller free content updates. While it is true that things like new character creation take time, but the reality is that 1) character creation isn't game content and 2) this is mostly engine work that will be used in other game titels as well anyways. The reality is that eve universe hasn't radically changed at all in the last 8 years. It's still really more of the same. You can update gfx engine all you want, or add new models, or make the same npc ships do same things in a different way and call it new expansions, but the scope of real game expansions is something entirely different. CCP has no choice other than releasing these "expanions" without charge, as otherwise they had to either make them 20 times bigger each, or people would start questioning whether they are worth their 40Ç, which would probably be answered with no in most cases. bottomline: expansion != expansion. This is a very good point indeed, Blizzard has been releasing new dungeons and raids pretty much all the time between expansions. This "incursion" can barely be called a content patch.
Siona Windweaver Placeholder Holdings	Posted - 2011.01.25 22:16:00 - [129] Originally by: Tather Demaleon http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/1101/2011.01.26.08.19.06.png Thats seriously ****ed up to be honest. Quite disgusting.
Ryhss Caldari QuanNet Evolved	Posted - 2011.01.25 22:34:00 - [130] I'm hoping they scrap Incarna and fix stuff that's already broke before putting more ***** on the pile.
Eula Violation	Posted - 2011.01.26 17:19:00 - [131] Originally by: Ryhss I'm hoping they scrap Incarna and fix stuff that's already broke before putting more ***** on the pile. i would love that in blue graph form, or alternativelty as a venn diagram or flow chart. i have no idea how you would do it, but if you can - you'd be a legend.
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2011.01.26 17:25:00 - [132] Originally by: Sieges Originally by: Chelone I get about, oh, ONE FPS in the new character creator. I can deal with it by putting the shader on low for most of it, then switching to high to make sure it looks right and finishing out at molasses speed. This^^^ Why is it soooo slooooooooooooow? I have a pretty old system now. About 4 years with a GF 8600 GT. Creator was not laggy at all for me. Maybe something else going on with your systems? --------------------------------------------- I AM BETTER THAN YOU.
Arec Bardwin	Posted - 2011.01.26 17:46:00 - [133] I sincerely hope that CCP isn't stupid enough to force people to access basic station services via Incarna. The 30 second session timer is annoying enough; having to get out of my pod and load Incarna stuff to do some trivial tasks would probably make me really ****ing mad.
Shakira MILF	Posted - 2011.01.26 18:28:00 - [134] Originally by: Barbelo Valentinian Originally by: Barakkus some silly RP crap in stations? Agree with the general tenor of your post, but I have to express my umbrage at your dissing of RP Just to interpose a random thread derailment: I used to be of your opinion till I joined a hardcore RP guild in AoC, just to see what it was all this girly RP crap was all about. You think you've experienced adrenalin dump from PvP? Let me tell you, you have no idea what an adrenalin dump is until you've tried some hardcore RP! See, with PvP in an MMO, unlike PvP in an FPS, you're still hiding behind something - stats, time put into the game, etc., etc. With RP you are totally exposed, it's just you, and if you don't hit the right note to go with the conversational flow and the development of a story, you embarass yourself (and your Guild or whatever, if you're representing an in-game RP group) to a much greater degree than mere PvP nonsense. It's not for everyone. It's a bit like musicians jamming really, and takes a certain kind of skill that not everyone has (to listen on the one hand, and then to be able to boldly impose yourself and fly at the right moment). But it's by far the most electrifying thing you can do in a videogame (presuming the right crowd of course), quite on a par with, and sometimes exceeding the excitement of combat PvP. Try it and see! Still sounds like crap !!!
Reinholdr	Posted - 2011.01.26 20:03:00 - [135] This entire thread comes off as a bunch of pampered, whining, arrogant cry babies that didn't get something they wanted and threw themselves to the ground to flail about until somebody pays them the attention they feel they are entitled to. Sort of like the CSM person. Everybody seems to have a bone to pick. Here's a tip. If you don't like it. Don't play it. Either you have such a pitiful life that you can't find an alternative to doing something that you don't enjoy or you are simply the type of person that is never satisfied with anything. The mantra keeps getting repeated. Wha Wha Wha STO sucks and there are no alternative space ship games out there. Cry me a river. Since you know so much about what players want, why aren't you designing and developing one? Oh right, because that's a lot harder than making whine threads on an mmo forum. Nobody makes you play this game. Say it with me now. Nobody makes me play this game. The whole thing smacks of a fishing attempt for CCP posts. People say the WoW forums are bad. Sheesh. I hope Incarna is terrible and the whole lot of you quit. The worst thing about this game is the self entitled players who have been playing it for so long that they have lost all touch with reality and simply can't be satisfied with anything. Shedding a few of these overindulged fat cats would be the best thing that ever happened to Eve Online. It would be different if any of these threads contained one iota of constructiveness or some suggestions about what would make things better but they never do. It's always the same grumpy old veterans with their own agendas complaining about some previous expansion (that they didn't pay for mind you) not living up to what they thought it should be and therefore everything that CCP does in the future will be a failure. None of them ever quit. None of them ever leave. They just hang around, attempting to poison the well for the next person that wants to take a drink. These forums are a sociologist/psychologists dream. What is it in a person that makes them continue to participate in an activity that they claim is so broken and fundamentally flawed? Why do people continue to give money to a company that they feel so strongly has failed them time after time. Why is it, that if you gave 100 people a brand new blue car, there's that one jack ass that complains because the car wasn't red?
Barakkus	Posted - 2011.01.26 20:27:00 - [136] Edited by: Barakkus on 26/01/2011 20:28:17 Actually if they want to implement microtransactions it would behoove them to check out what SOE is doing with EQ2 at the moment. There's a bunch of fluff and not so game changing stuff available through their "station store" where you buy points to spend in game. They also implemented a free to play model, but if you want some of the extra content not available through the free to play, you have to shell out a few more $$. The regular subscription people get unfettered access to everything. Microtransactions aren't as evil as people make them out to be. You just have to find the right balance. - - [SERVICE] Corp Standings For POS anchoring
Miilla Minmatar Hulkageddon Orphanage	Posted - 2011.01.26 20:32:00 - [137] Edited by: Miilla on 26/01/2011 20:36:44 Originally by: Barakkus Edited by: Barakkus on 26/01/2011 20:28:17 Actually if they want to implement microtransactions it would behoove them to check out what SOE is doing with EQ2 at the moment. There's a bunch of fluff and not so game changing stuff available through their "station store" where you buy points to spend in game. They also implemented a free to play model, but if you want some of the extra content not available through the free to play, you have to shell out a few more $$. The regular subscription people get unfettered access to everything. Microtransactions aren't as evil as people make them out to be. You just have to find the right balance. I cannot wait for this, Just like Valve did with Hat's 20 bucks a hat. NO problem. Team Fortress 2 turned into a SCAMFEST. I already scam people out of PLEXs, I cannot wait until I can scam them out of items they purchase :) Anarchy Online did the free to play model, expansions paid for. People used the free game, camped the payers and then whatever they dropped, they got free. Why bother paying :) Just follow the ones who pay and you get it free. Where you involve money you bring crime :) Bring it on, Scam them to hell and back :)
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2011.01.26 23:32:00 - [138] Originally by: Cyaxares II The Live Dev Blog yesterday did finally lay the myth of player designed clothing to rest - message was: we want you eventually to be able to project your corp logo on your clothing or have some sort of corp uniform but no player-designed clothes in the foreseeable future. (don't have a transcript available to quote verbatim but I am certain that my memory serves me right rgd the core mesage) Now, only the idea of player-operated night clubs has to die and we're closing in on reality. Yeah, i caught the live dev blog. But if not something so simple as night clubs/bars, then what? I mean, it's really just an area where liquor is served and music is played. That shouldn't take months. Quote: Again it was confirmed that CCP intends to use the staggered release approach in the future and elsewhere it has been stated that it will probably be applied to Incarna. This is a great excuse to give you walking, captain's quarters and maybe some meeting areas in a select number of stations at Incarna release while gradually adding any actual gameplay content and expanding the number of stations in which Incarna is available (and the population limits for individual areas) over a period of several months. I wasn't aware they confirmed it, but i've been saying for a long time we'll see a very bare bones version of Incarna initially, and every 6 months or so after more will be added. The idea of a bare bones version coming first still doesn't seem like enough to warrant the kind of 'disbelief and disappointment' previously mentioned. I'm expecting something about it to completely catch us off guard. Quote: With regards to development of the new UI CCP "dropped the bomb" that they have just (as in half of the company is not even aware of this yet) have assigned one developer to work full-time on the UI. Seriously? I've said before how odd it is the game mecahanics expect corps to be made of thousands in order to just hold a single system in 0.0, but CCPs real life corp policies tend to be about using a small amount of members to go up against other MMO corps which consist of thousands. That would be suicide in game, and maybe in real life too, only when another company offers a serious space combat MMO will we know for sure. Sincerely, Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Lellian Marcellus Taron	Posted - 2011.01.26 23:59:00 - [139] Originally by: Brooks Puuntai Originally by: Aelius CCP is following the easier route instead of the right route. p.much sums everything up in one sentence. ARE YOU TOO LAZY TO TYPE "PRETTY"? Get out of here. Just leave.
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2011.01.27 00:20:00 - [140] Originally by: Foundation Vox OP - Pure Speculation. Sounds like you need a break. I have zero problem with micros I don't have a problem with microtransactions for vanity items, either. Did you not catch the Chimpanzee on a segway? He was supposed to entertain and distract your kind. Sincerely, Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Whitehound The Whitehound Corporation Hounds of Anarchy	Posted - 2011.01.27 00:30:00 - [141] Edited by: Whitehound on 27/01/2011 00:35:34 Trolling on an academic level ... is this still supposed to be funny?!? This thread is now about boobs, balls and the lack of such. --
Dr BattleSmith PAX Interstellar Services	Posted - 2011.01.27 01:23:00 - [142] Originally by: Mecinia Lua I've been here since 2005. Incarna has always been the proverbial carrot, its what they've used for years. It is clear they cannot reach the level they are seeking. Everyone knows that. Anyone that believes they really worked on it for the last 4 years is fooling themselves. But I think EVE is in trouble for other reasons. Every expansion the last 2 years, they release a half ass expansion. They then patch it on the Friday after its release. That patch generally breaks more than the first one did. They then let folks post over the weekend, never respond and eventually unsticky the issues/feedback thread. While they ignore what they've broken, whether intentionally or not, they tout whatever new thing they've put out. Like for instance yesterday we had the live dev touting the merits of the character creator and the PI. Its smoke and mirrors nothing more. Well said. Very half-assed, they have decided that half-assed makes more money then passion.
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2011.01.27 04:25:00 - [143] Edited by: Infinity Ziona on 27/01/2011 04:32:14 F2P games don't necessarily have to have micro-transactions. The initial sale of a game box / download generates enough profit for free to play without those things. Guild wars is a good example of this. Free to play and funded by the sale of boxes / initial game purchases and boxed expansions. Continuing subscriptions and micro-transactions are based on greed rather then necessity. Example: EvE has 600,000 subs apparently. Boxed Game @ 100.00 dollars = 60,000,000. 3 x Expansions @ 50.00 dollars = 90,000,000. Over 8 years = 18,000,000 per year. Theres no way that CCP is spending anywhere near 18,000,000 per year on servers, staff. --------------------------------------------- I AM BETTER THAN YOU.
ry ry Galactic Shipyards Inc Huzzah Federation	Posted - 2011.01.27 08:48:00 - [144] Originally by: Chelone For incarna, one thing I find "interesting" is the new character creator. I have a 7800 GT, which I am told is similar to what powers consoles like the Xbox 360. I get about, oh, ONE FPS in the new character creator. I can deal with it by putting the shader on low for most of it, then switching to high to make sure it looks right and finishing out at molasses speed. Now I know I am below the average in graphics power, but from what I am told by many people, you need a VERY high-end card to run the character creator on high-shader at a normal FPS. Now consider that this is for showing only ONE CHARACTER. In incarna, we will have what, 30 characters on screen at once? 100? More? Unless I'm missing something, I cannot imagine ANY consumer machine running that on high shader. As for the OP's entire post -- I don't see anything substantive. Post again when you have info, not speculation. I had a 7800gt until a month or so ago, so I know how good your comedy graphics card is. Basically it is prehistoric in terms of computer hardware and won't run any modern games at anything approaching a decent res/level of detail. It is literally 3 generations out of date and the xbox 360 comparison touted on various sites is total *****s, failing to take :hardware: into account. S*ped it out for a ú60 ati 5670, and that handles eve just fine. Character creator and all. Stop being so cheap. Now if you'll excuse me I need to go and write a letter of complaint to my local council as their bmx parks are not suitable for my penny farthing.
Professor Tarantula Hedion University	Posted - 2011.02.02 21:26:00 - [145] Edited by: Professor Tarantula on 02/02/2011 21:32:26 I can now confirm Tather Demaleon is the one and only T'Amber, or at least an extremely clever CCP operative, and i'm a bit surprised at myself and everyone else for not taking his post seriously. When i recieved mention of him posting i thought it must be recent, but nope, i just didn't pay close enough attention. Would appear that after enough beer i'm also guilty of skimming large posts. Really sucks about the lack of non programmable NPCs. That's something i was also looking forward to, and felt would liven businesses up. But if that's the biggest lie from that fanfest, i can live with it. Anyway, this will be my last post in the thread. I hate people who bump things relentlessly. Found this thread on pg15. With the sacrifice/protest made by T'Amber things are looking a little better for Incarna. I'm now cautiously optimistic, but only time will tell for sure. Here's hoping the footage and promises from the next fanfest are 100% accurate and awesome. Sincerely, Prof. Tarantula, Esq.
Dkamanus	Posted - 2011.02.03 14:44:00 - [146] I believe in CCP with the micro transactions. I do believe that a model of PLEX/Isk?Microtransaction is quite possible, even more if vanity items can be traded for Isk/PLEX. It won't destroy economy, since people that are hardcore won't be affected by the slightest, since most don't have an actual use in the game (Ships like the Echelon, for instance). Would be something like Ragnarok Online here in Brasil, where people buy items with money and sell them online. The problem with this RO model, here in Brasil, is that, in order to make your character work the way it should, since they locked skills so you MUST buy cards, is what ****ed it up. I simply don't try RO in Brazil due to this terrible mechanic. Other games it worked, like WoW, which has the typical US$ 15 a month subscription, and the vanity items sale, which have minimal impact on the game. Hell, don't even try to sell "Skill Points Boosters" that it would kill a LOT of the game. Simply put, sell vanity items (Clothes, Ship painting and stuff) but don't sell things that would break the game balance (if there is one) right now. I really couldn't care more if people actually wanted to look cooler, but as soon as they wanted to become stronger, and could do so by using US$ instead of PLEX (which is much more acceptable then Real Money Microtransaction) then the game will start to become uninteresting to me, and I'll simply quit. And believe, I guess LOTs of people will do the same.
Jack Gilligan 1st Cavalry Division Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2011.02.03 16:07:00 - [147] Sounds to me what we REALLY need if Incarna is truly jumping off the rails into something we won't like and heavily indulging in $OE/Craptic style "cash shop hell" we need a principled member of the CSM to resign and break their NDA. I am one of the people who run the MMO fansite mmofringe.com, anyone wanting to "launder" said stuff is perfectly welcome to do so through us so that they can keep their own hands clean. Frankly stuff like this shouldn't be under NDA in the first place it is, after all, OUR MONEY they are using to develop this, after my experiences with $OE and the Star Wars Galaxies NGE being developed in secret behind our backs I certainly don't believe a MMO publisher has any RIGHT to develop stuff they know their player base isn't going to like in secret (so we will keep giving them money to develop it) to spring it on us when it's too late for us to have any input on it. Now, I'm hoping this isn't the case here, but as they say, sunlight is the best disinfectant.
Jack Gilligan 1st Cavalry Division Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2011.02.03 16:25:00 - [148] Originally by: mkmin @all those 'wait and see' guys: What if CCP goes back on what they said before and now to use station services you have to walk through the station to do so? What if an everyday instant activity like buying something or reprocessing or refitting will now chew up a good hour of your time? The last 2 expansions have been about mandatory participation. CCP assured us that they wouldn't do that, but they've gone back on their assurances before. "Sure we'll iterate on FW, spacebook will be awesome, PI will have depth, we've got T3 frigs in the next expansion, dominion will break up the power blocs" etc ad nauseum. What I am afraid of is that if CCP indeed uses Incarna to bolt a bunch of RMT on top of a SUBSCRIPTION game (which is ethically questionable at best) is they will renege on their promise to make Incarna optional to continue playing as we are. (ie, station services still on the UI as they are now) They would want to do this for the same reason the grocery store makes sure you have to walk through EVERYTHING ELSE to get to the bread, milk, cheese, and meat: Making us walk through the item mall in theroy causes people to buy things they otherwise wouldn't have bought because they see something and go "oooh shiney". Think about it, how many times do you go to the grocery or other retail store and come out ONLY with what you went in to get?
Jack Gilligan 1st Cavalry Division Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2011.02.03 16:33:00 - [149] Originally by: Cyaxares II first tattoos, some additional accessories and the ability to recustomize your avatar (probably planned for the first Incarna iteration) then corp logos, corp uniforms but that part is "not in our plans right now" and in some distant future "we'll look into player tailored clothes" (and "looking into" a possible feature is just about the weakest commitment you could ever make - it implies that it's not even clear if that feature is technically feasible/possible). Clearly the first shoe to drop with respect to RMT will be avatar improvements. Our new avatars were intentionally left "crappy". We aren't happy with them BY DESIGN. Basically CCP is going to force us to essentially repurchase what we already used to have: tatoos, gear, clothes, basically the look our old avatars had. This is unethical. Not to mention everyone is basically in the same clothes with, what, 2 color choices? Now I'm not huge on playing "barbie" with my avatars in MMOs, but when I make a character I have an image of what that character is in my mind and the new creator basically doesn't allow that to be realized while the old one did. This will get worse when we get Incarna and we're all standing in a station lobby wearing the same clothes. There is no reason other than it being intentional for CCP to have released the new character creator NOW and in such limited condition.
Rek Seven Gallente Guy Fawkes Trust Fund	Posted - 2011.02.03 16:59:00 - [150] Dear CCP, Like others in this thread, the information released about incarna sparked my interest in EVE and i decided to buy my first PC and sign up in preparation for this expansion, so you can imagine how disappointed IÆll be if incarnate is a hug let down. Incase you care IÆll list a few thing that will keep incarna from being a disappointment for me: 1.Social areas where i can interact with other players 2.Mini game areas where i can play games like poker, chess etc for isk or just for fun 3.Private quarters where i can change clothes, and invite up to four people to play a private game poker etc. 4.PDA û my character better have a pda with him at all times that lets him do things like brows and buy from the market, refit a ship, type an email etc and this needs to be animated so people can see that iÆm busy doing stuff. And thatÆs it. Anything else you add a later date would build upon this foundation but if those future plans doing include in station mission, you guys need to go back to the drawing board. With regards to micro transactions, if you add an additional form of currency that i can buy from your website to but vanity items, (cloths, ship logos) thatÆs fine with me. Regards, Rek Seven
Oriana Mortuney	Posted - 2011.02.03 18:01:00 - [151] Originally by: Jack Gilligan Sounds to me what we REALLY need if Incarna is truly jumping off the rails into something we won't like and heavily indulging in $OE/Craptic style "cash shop hell" we need a principled member of the CSM to resign and break their NDA. I am one of the people who run the MMO fansite mmofringe.com, anyone wanting to "launder" said stuff is perfectly welcome to do so through us so that they can keep their own hands clean. Frankly stuff like this shouldn't be under NDA in the first place it is, after all, OUR MONEY they are using to develop this, after my experiences with $OE and the Star Wars Galaxies NGE being developed in secret behind our backs I certainly don't believe a MMO publisher has any RIGHT to develop stuff they know their player base isn't going to like in secret (so we will keep giving them money to develop it) to spring it on us when it's too late for us to have any input on it. Now, I'm hoping this isn't the case here, but as they say, sunlight is the best disinfectant. I don't see what opening yourself up to legal action, making the CSM look 'worse' by having yet another 'scandal' will do all to satisfy our curiosity for something we'll see in what 5 more months? While I'd like to know all the 'plans' it isn't our right, we only get to choose to keep paying/playing or not that's all. We aren't part of the board or owners of CCP to dictate such things from them, we are the customers who they can make happy or unhappy by releasing stuff we like or not as they please.
Quemist	Posted - 2011.02.03 18:09:00 - [152] When I started playing this game. The first day I logged in I was trying to figure out the interface ect. I had absolutely no idea what was going on. I start asking questions blah blah. I ask how do I get out of my ship. A blue replies , soon followed by a green soon.tm And everyone went on a discussion about it. It has since been promised, dangled in front of us only to be inevitably delayed. They even showed videos as if it were almost ready to be released. Strippers/bars/games so yes I've been waiting for it and was excited about it. I'm not waiting anymore. This is for you CCP
Jack Gilligan 1st Cavalry Division Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2011.02.03 21:52:00 - [153] Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 03/02/2011 21:53:49 Edited by: Jack Gilligan on 03/02/2011 21:52:54 Originally by: Oriana Mortuney I don't see what opening yourself up to legal action, making the CSM look 'worse' by having yet another 'scandal' will do all to satisfy our curiosity for something we'll see in what 5 more months? Legal action? I didn't sign any NDA. Nor would it avail them to try to find out who "leaked" the NDA'ed material to me as I'd not be able to even testify factually as to who even gave it to me. I know none of the CSM personally and if they were smart the info would slide in over the transom via a throwaway gmail account or something. Quote: While I'd like to know all the 'plans' it isn't our right, we only get to choose to keep paying/playing or not that's all. We aren't part of the board or owners of CCP to dictate such things from them, we are the customers who they can make happy or unhappy by releasing stuff we like or not as they please. If they are taking our money and working on a monster behind our back and not disclosing that (think the NGE again) which might cause us to NOT continue to subscribe (and thus fund) if we knew about it I think we have EVERY right to know about it! Indeed, the whole purpose of the CSM should be to prevent something like that from ever happening. CCP shouldn't be able to put them under NDA, and if they did, it should be for very short periods of time, no more than 30 days maximum.
Infinity Ziona Minmatar Cloakers	Posted - 2011.02.03 22:08:00 - [154] Originally by: Rek Seven 3.Private quarters where i can change clothes, and invite up to four people to play a private game poker etc. Thats just selfish. We wanna poker too --------------------------------------------- I AM BETTER THAN YOU.
Feilamya Pain Elemental	Posted - 2011.02.03 22:16:00 - [155] Originally by: Professor Tarantula If Incarna is yet another bait and switch i'm outta here, and i'm pretty sure, after analyzing things, i will be. If Incarna was your only reason for playing this game, then you should have quit years ago.
San Severina Minmatar One Point 0	Posted - 2011.02.03 22:40:00 - [156] Originally by: Herping yourDerp if T'amber QQ rage ***** quit over micro transactions for vanity items then good ridence, unless they are going to make it " buy a titan for $300 USD" then micro transactions will be fine. you idiot! Titans can be bought with real money but they are alot more expensive than $300! try 50Billion ISK worth of Plex. Quick mental add up at 350Mill aprox. a plex = around 2+ Grand US. Aprox. I agree with a few other posters who have mentioned the lack of choice in the CC outfits/hair/face features et al, seems to me we need not expect much from incarna if we cant manage more than two different types of pants, in four different colours across all races & bloodlines. I have been worried by the underground rumblings of things to come also & fear the secrecy only helps flame our paranoia, all I can do is hope things work out (against my better judgment) until more facts are known. Speculation at this point can only be based on rumor & an assessment of past deeds, it's the past deeds that raise my ire, PI was bad, & before that we had probably the worst patch in the history of the game & it seems whatever they broke still hasn't been totally rectified (lagg) but as a lover of EvE & owner of 3 accounts I live in hope. __________________________________________________ No sympathy for the Devil! Always remember that....
Corbon Hydrashock Sigillum Militum Xpisti	Posted - 2011.02.04 03:34:00 - [157] Originally by: Sader Rykane Originally by: Quemist They had games, bars with strippers in their videos 2 years ago. I can see CCP completely trashing that in favor of quafe vending machines and a plex shop though. Seemsmore Blizzardy, isn't that who they say they idolize now? Pathetic that it took 4 years to screw up and it wasn't even released so we could experience before they ****ed it up like we could with everything else. Actually, CCP's main problem isn't messing up a good things. It's actually not building on a good thing. Case and point, I'll use w-space (Because I'm completly biased and love it out there.). As fantastic as W-space is theres has been ZERO effort to expand on it, or add content to it. That in my opinion is a mistake. W-space is a veritable gold mine and they should really be expanding on it. But like faction war, it will be something that will just fall by the wayside. Lucky for me, although we may never seen an update to W-Space, as it stands its still pretty fun out there. Though its getting a tad stale. ANd while I won't ever claim to know as much as most about W-hole space and the opportunities that exist, I am convinced that the dreamers and creativity have either retired from CCP, been fired, or left for other ventures. Anyone whose been in the game and seen the things implemented from the get-go, and within the first three years, knows that nearly all that has been created since has been thin on actual delivery, and nothing impressive has been coming from them for two years now. (As can be seen by my vacant avatar, I am seriously unimpressed with the smoke and mirrors others seem so enamored with - please give me back my old avatar if you won't let me create at least that which I had.) Everything, and I mean everything, these days seems really to make it easier on the CCP servers and 'creators.' Half-wits rejoice, purists and enthusiasts question, but the truly gifted must have taken a back-seat, or been pushed out, from creating a better Eve on top of what they built.
Jack Gilligan 1st Cavalry Division Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2011.02.04 13:29:00 - [158] I'm not a big fan of wormhole space, but I will say that Apocrypha was our last true expansion to EVE. Everything that has come since haven't done any expansion of the game, just revamps. Dominion, for example. Tyrannous gave us a clickfest mini game that happens on planets. Incursions are nothing more than a hack of the Apocrypha wormhole/sleeper AI that happens in "normal" space. Seriously, if they rolled this game back to Apocrypha 1.5 would anyone really complain? Everything that has come since has pretty much created more problems than they solved.
Nomad Vherokic	Posted - 2011.02.05 12:17:00 - [159] EVE is getting drowned in mediocrity like so much of the games industry. It's franchise upon franchise all peddling the same derivative rubbish.

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