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StrykerR1
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Posted - 2011.01.26 01:40:00 -
[1]
LOL so i have done 14 hours of incursions countless sites to many fleets to think about and i have gotten
0isk 0lp
something always screwed me in the arse.
to many players DO'H didnt contribute enough ( several time we were the only fleet in the site till the end and we didnt contribute? )( also a fleet would hijack out site at the very end ) did one whole HQ with a fleet only us no others. finished it destroyed the mobile hq
i got 0 isk 0 lp also lost 3 hypers.
so is incursions cool? yes the idea is sound so is incursions flawed? yes the mechanics need to be HEAVILY revamp there is no reason i should do all the work and have a fleet come in an hijack a kill to finish it! so is incursions OP? yes/no i understand being hard but a hyper tanked t2 hyper lasted......35 seconds? with RR and RD. way to hard at some moments maybe tone down the damage they do a tad bit so is incusions worth it? simply put No they are not, if you do HQ and higher you are playing russian roulette, you get targeted befor u can even get a broadcast out to the RR logi guys. bamb your dead so its only a matter of time lol.
my honest review on incursions atm
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Aunty Nora
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Posted - 2011.01.26 04:57:00 -
[2]
you forgot the key element to playing any game. Did you have fun ?
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.01.26 05:17:00 -
[3]
You join a fleet with 100 noobs and thus got 0 isk. I'd say the reward curve is working as intended. If the gang isn't made of purely HACs, Command ships, and logis, it won't be profitable. The problem with eve is pugs don't tell you the kind of ships people bring until you actually joins it. It's not like "oh hey, a lvl85 cleric," in Eve, you can't tell the noobs from serious carebears. When you find yourself as the only logi among masses of Catalysts, leave.
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Mister Agreeable
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Posted - 2011.01.26 05:30:00 -
[4]
Fun? Fun???
WHERE ARE MY EPIX????!!?? I RAIDED BOSSES ALL DAY LONG AND NOT A SINGLE EPIC!!! FFS I WANT EPIX!!!!!
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Jonni Favorite
Red Slice Enterprise The Company LLC
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Posted - 2011.01.26 05:31:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Aunty Nora you forgot the key element to playing any game. Did you have fun ?
You forgot the key difference between a toy and a game. A toy is a novelty item that might catch your attention for a while, only to be discarded under your bed later when you get bored with it. A game has rules and a predictable result. People play games in the hopes that when they follow the rules they have a chance to win at the end. The more difficult the challenge the more rewards at the end. The OP is not the only one to feel that while the rules were followed, the cookie was not there at the end, so other than a masochistic tendency, why do it again tomorrow?
I will give it another chance but man this *game* needs some work and some serious balancing. Some bounties wouldn't hurt either.. |
Goose99
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Posted - 2011.01.26 05:33:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Jonni Favorite masochistic tendency
This pretty much sums it up.
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Toovhon
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Posted - 2011.01.26 05:39:00 -
[7]
Well I was shocked at a super passive Drake dying in a couple seconds. I knew it wasn't going to do very well (it was a fit specifically for level IV missions), but I thought I'd at least have time to warp out when targeted. Nup. 100's of players in our two fleets were chased away.
So I returned in a cruiser to do a much smaller incursion plex with a 40 person cruiser and frigate fleet. Died.
Ok, lessons learnt - Incursions require a rather PvP type fit, tactics, and buffer tanks, with heavy logistics. Also bring the biggest baddest possible ship. Final lesson from watching other better fleets - you'll still often die. Ouch...
Now I still had a blast in massive groups (1000's of players were there) rarely seen in high sec, and losing a few ships was still fun and many laughs were had. But there were no good moments from victories... because there were none. Only funny moments from amusing deaths and our own good humour buoying us on.
However once the newness is gone, I wonder how many high sec pilots will care to risk a lot of ISK on some LP rewards, when level IVs and PvE activity in reasonably secure 0.0 sec earns a steady income with little risk.
I mean what's going to happen when your system is invaded? If you're in a powerful alliance you might rally players to repel it in low or null sec, if only to maintain your income from that space. But in high sec? Well, after today I'll just be moving systems. It's not worth it. That sucks IMO. Incursions would seem to be only high end activity requiring considerable resources and organisation.
In the end? Every system in high sec is controlled by Sansha? LOL. Well it's 100% Sansha controlled across the board even in 0.0 right now... -- Frog blast the vent core! |
Amnepoh
Minmatar Republic Military School
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Posted - 2011.01.26 05:43:00 -
[8]
Its not that there are no cookies at the end... its just that challenge, as you called it, is quite hard. We seen same thing when WH were first introduced.
This game doesnt need another solo farm feature: kill xxx red crosses, get xxx isk and lp. you can do that in normal missions.
This is a massive fleet event. and if hige PUG fleets have no organisation whatsoever, the result will be the same.
Im looking forward to doing incusions with solid gang/fleet.
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Soldarius
Caldari Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2011.01.26 05:46:00 -
[9]
Goose, I find your lack of face disturbing.
Damn, I never get tired of that one. Gonna have to put that in my sig.
I think the problem with the incursion system now is that as you say there does not appear to be any cookies. There are. But they are easily stolen and hard to get. The hoops are small, and the distance is great. Players must do things that they are unaccustomed to, and difficult to learn.
Eve is not so much about get the better weapon so that you can beat the boss. A better weapon helps some. But if you don't know how to use that fancy new weapon, you still won't kill the boss. Hand a gun to someone who has never touched one, and they are more likely to kill themself or an ally than an enemy.
What you really need to do is go over to the test server with some friends and have at it. Or at least use really cheap stuff until you have learned what works. Your standard PvE fits and tactics are useless vs Sansha incursion sites.
1. Adapt 2. Overcome 3. Profit
Originally by: CCP Shadow ...I cannot guarantee (my) sobriety or decency.
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Mister Agreeable
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Posted - 2011.01.26 05:47:00 -
[10]
So, in short, incursion rats are like C6 sleepers on steroids, and rewards are worth **** all. Just what we need, thanks CCP.
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waxx25
Gallente Ready. Aim. Fire.
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Posted - 2011.01.26 06:03:00 -
[11]
guys, seriously all this stuff about losing this super tanked hyperion or that really passive drake is just sad. ccp did this on purpose. no single ship is going to live through this. If my team was able to do these sites in nothing but dominixes which are dirt cheap there should be no complaining. teamwork is the key in these and no these rats arent like c6 sleepers on steroids (sleepers damn near insta popped drones these dont) just use your heads guys. otherwise go play wow
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Rip Minner
Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.26 06:23:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Rip Minner on 26/01/2011 06:23:47
Originally by: Amnepoh Its not that there are no cookies at the end... its just that challenge, as you called it, is quite hard. We seen same thing when WH were first introduced.
This game doesnt need another solo farm feature: kill xxx red crosses, get xxx isk and lp. you can do that in normal missions.
This is a massive fleet event. and if hige PUG fleets have no organisation whatsoever, the result will be the same.
Im looking forward to doing incusions with solid gang/fleet.
Solid gang/fleets are still lossing ships bro. You lose your ship you dont get payed.
Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
Jonni Favorite
Red Slice Enterprise The Company LLC
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Posted - 2011.01.26 06:35:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Rip Minner Edited by: Rip Minner on 26/01/2011 06:23:47
Originally by: Amnepoh Its not that there are no cookies at the end... its just that challenge, as you called it, is quite hard. We seen same thing when WH were first introduced.
Solid gang/fleets are still lossing ships bro. You lose your ship you dont get payed.
Although it's still the first day so I feel there's some potential once we figure out what works, what doesn't.
I was probably one of he luckier ones and although I didn't make any isk, I didn't lose any, mainly because I spent the first few hours reading the chats and forum reports and retooling my ship several times. I've been in large fleets before but this was the first time I got into a logi Domi or logi of any kind and that was a lot of fun and got me some valuable skills that I'll use in the future.
Someone else mentioned this being a great way for people that normally wouldn't fleet up for a pvp like event and Incursions is a great way to get your feet wet and see if that's your thing at all. I think the group I was with was doing mostly Vanguards I have to admit I was too much into it to pay much attention to anything but the FC and/or my other logi buddies in smaller traditional logistics ships popping left and right around me before I could even lock them lol. Sorry guys |
Rip Minner
Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries
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Posted - 2011.01.26 07:00:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Rip Minner on 26/01/2011 07:01:41 Even so the rewards system is heavly flawed. If your going to fight that hard and loss ships. You ether need
1.) Real people that your killing to rub there noses in it.
2.) Some kind of great reward that you know your going to get for helping.
Right now you lose your ship or another fleet comes in and takes your reward it's like f*ck all.
And the reward is not at the level that it pays the replacement fee of your lost ship not that your geting a reward at that point ether.
Edit: How ever I do see low sec people loving this even later on. They already like doing missions that dont pay reward Vers risk on a even bases.
Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here. |
ArmyOfMe
Pastry Productions Inc. Advocated Destruction
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Posted - 2011.01.26 07:15:00 -
[15]
spent a few hours yesterday doing incursions with a random unorganized fleet the things i did notice is 1) the npc's are quite hard(Awesome, about time that happend in empire as well) 2) the rewards are ****. 3) didnt get any rewards most of the time simply cause the fleets were to big. 4) most ppl seemed to enjoy being in fleets and having fun
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Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.26 07:22:00 -
[16]
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
1) the npc's are quite hard(Awesome, about time that happend in empire as well)
Rather than a level 4 where you kills hundreds of NPC rats, they should have two or three frigates, a cruiser and a BS that act more like these NPC's.
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Goose99
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Posted - 2011.01.26 07:44:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
Originally by: ArmyOfMe
1) the npc's are quite hard(Awesome, about time that happend in empire as well)
Rather than a level 4 where you kills hundreds of NPC rats, they should have two or three frigates, a cruiser and a BS that act more like these NPC's.
Except you're not paid the equivalent of hundreds of rats, but rather two or three frigates, a cruiser and a BS. Well, maybe less.
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Jack Abramof
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Posted - 2011.01.26 08:19:00 -
[18]
I think its safe to consider this as a "raid encounter" in traditionnal MMOs, so maybe it would be a good idea to do it with corp members only, so you know the people you re with, you work with a strategy and you avoid the problem of being ripped off from any reward if you get popped.
I dont think i m ever going to do any incursions stuff but doing this kind of event in a PUG is a disaster waiting to happen
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Doctor Ungabungas
Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
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Posted - 2011.01.26 09:14:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Jack Abramof I think its safe to consider this as a "raid encounter" in traditionnal MMOs, so maybe it would be a good idea to do it with corp members only, so you know the people you re with, you work with a strategy and you avoid the problem of being ripped off from any reward if you get popped.
I dont think i m ever going to do any incursions stuff but doing this kind of event in a PUG is a disaster waiting to happen
If only there was a mechanism by which people with similar in-game goals could team up and share resources, tactics and trust.
I don't know what we'd call this mechanism though.
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Tanthius Vanter
Gallente Vanter Ventures
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Posted - 2011.01.26 09:16:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas
Originally by: Jack Abramof I think its safe to consider this as a "raid encounter" in traditionnal MMOs, so maybe it would be a good idea to do it with corp members only, so you know the people you re with, you work with a strategy and you avoid the problem of being ripped off from any reward if you get popped.
I dont think i m ever going to do any incursions stuff but doing this kind of event in a PUG is a disaster waiting to happen
If only there was a mechanism by which people with similar in-game goals could team up and share resources, tactics and trust.
I don't know what we'd call this mechanism though.
Space-Guilds. /nod
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Winters Chill
Amarr Aesir Frontiers Asgard Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.26 09:59:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Mister Agreeable
WHERE ARE MY EPIX????!!?? I RAIDED BOSSES ALL DAY LONG AND NOT A SINGLE EPIC!!! FFS I WANT EPIX!!!!!
I know you think your being ironic mr "people play other games so are less 'intelligent' than I am". However a tangible reward for activity is the reason why many people play online games. Even pvpers get a kill mail as a reward for their victory. Activity with no reward will soon find itself with few participants, save those who enjoy the activity itself, however for most this will not be enough.
Maybe you should think a little before posting, then you wouldn't look so thoughtless.
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Sun Ying
Caldari Sun Ltd.
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Posted - 2011.01.26 10:19:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Winters Chill
Originally by: Mister Agreeable
WHERE ARE MY EPIX????!!?? I RAIDED BOSSES ALL DAY LONG AND NOT A SINGLE EPIC!!! FFS I WANT EPIX!!!!!
I know you think your being ironic mr "people play other games so are less 'intelligent' than I am". However a tangible reward for activity is the reason why many people play online games. Even pvpers get a kill mail as a reward for their victory. Activity with no reward will soon find itself with few participants, save those who enjoy the activity itself, however for most this will not be enough.
Maybe you should think a little before posting, then you wouldn't look so thoughtless.
the difference vs mature and childish perfectly illustrated :)
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Belen Shields
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Posted - 2011.01.26 10:33:00 -
[23]
If you wanna earn some cash and LP with incursions, look for a corp that is doing them! No T1 Logistics, no T1 at all except BS and with that in mind you can hit the requirements for the cash out.
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Asaface
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Posted - 2011.01.26 10:43:00 -
[24]
Basically - A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF NOOBS ARE MAKING THIS SOUND LIKE A BAD MECHANIC
I currently have completed 7 vanguards and an assault, with sweet fleets of 11 or 18, u need the right fittings, right fleet comps, pro logi's and pro FC's
When you get that, like i had for 14 hours last night, you will have 115M paid to you by concord (like i have so far) and 16k LP on the way (like i have)
Proof - http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1101/Cursion_5.jpg
Stop being a noob and fly properly with proper people, in proper fleet comps, with proper fittings and proper synergy
Then you wont be one of the other million QQ thread OPs
PS - No losses all night for any of our fleet except a dumbass scorpion who didnt know how to broadcast "need xxxx"
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Mad Yojik
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Posted - 2011.01.26 10:54:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Mad Yojik on 26/01/2011 10:57:13 The main problems with hisec Incursions is just two - griefers and lack of rewards.
First - griefers: Anyone knowing a bit in game GCC mechanics said that "PUG fleets will fail!". You get one griefer in a fleet and its a mess, even if you're not spider tanking - grifer concord the logis and all fleet in a world of hurt. So only organized groups like 0.0 PvP corps can participate,since even if you as a hisec carebear want it - most hisec 'bear corps are too stretched between timezones and full of alts, worried only by ISK per hour to fuel their mains.
Second - Well, assuming you got together a tight group,your people trust each other,and that group is small enough to get a full-scale reward on Vanguard site. To achieve this you likely need a couple of T2 logis, and no less then four or five T2 cruisers, otherwise - you get banged. You got to site, kill anything that moves, and get a 10 M ISK reward (In hisec you never get your 15M fully.). In what I saw - cleaning the site comes around an hour or so. Lets make it 30 min, just to max out rewards. Then you have 20M per hour. 20 Mil is an average income per L4, counting in bounties and salvage, and most of 'em can be done in 30-45 min or so, not requiring any expensive T2 cruiser. Also, mistakes tend to happen, and if cost of those in L4 is fairly low (generally you just warp out, repair and get your reward, or if you get killed (VERY unlikely in L4 properly tanked ship) - you just buy yourself a new T1 BS, and pick up your mods where they lie) - in Incursion site any mistake, or lag, or disconnect can cost you your ship.... And HACs are 100M+ now, plus you will not likely a) get a reward if your fleet wins b) Will not be able to pick your expensive mods if your fleet fails. And how many Incursion sites you have to run to get a 100M+ for a new hull? 10? 15?
CCP - Please bump up Incursion rewards!!! Now fighting off hisec incursions is pointless imo.
Sorry for the long wall of text, thanks for reading it.
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cragz
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Posted - 2011.01.26 10:59:00 -
[26]
Edited by: cragz on 26/01/2011 11:00:42 Too many trolls in here I see.
As mentioned in another post my fleet was at for 11 hours doing HQ's with the recommended up to 40. Second one we kept it under 40 for the most part and we defo had the most influence as there were really any established fleets like ours.
Anyway:
http://img121.imageshack.us/i/incursionhq.jpg/
Objective completed and nothing logged last night and same again today having cleared the cache.
Don't get me wrong it is fun to start with but getting nothing after 11 hours then logging back in to find Penalty status back to 100% after managing to get it down to 44% is crazy. thats considering the fleets throughout the consitillation and hundreds of players in the systems completing the plexes.
We want fun but also want to achieve something specially if we do this for hours on end. (it take much much more time than neccesary to repel the incursions IMO)
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Mad Yojik
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Posted - 2011.01.26 11:07:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Asaface Basically - A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF NOOBS ARE MAKING THIS SOUND LIKE A BAD MECHANIC
I currently have completed 7 vanguards and an assault, with sweet fleets of 11 or 18, u need the right fittings, right fleet comps, pro logi's and pro FC's
When you get that, like i had for 14 hours last night, you will have 115M paid to you by concord (like i have so far) and 16k LP on the way (like i have)
Proof - http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1101/Cursion_5.jpg
Stop being a noob and fly properly with proper people, in proper fleet comps, with proper fittings and proper synergy
Then you wont be one of the other million QQ thread OPs
PS - No losses all night for any of our fleet except a dumbass scorpion who didnt know how to broadcast "need xxxx"
115 m for 14 hours.... Less then 10 M per-hour income. L4s beats it easy. And you dont need fleet, pro logis and 30 Mil SP to fly them proper. I can (not being a "pro missionrunner") make about 20-30M per-hour. And it is supposed to be a LOT more (its sort of L5 and sleeper content, where you pop easy doing wrong things, and dont do alone, so it should pay up).
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gfldex
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Posted - 2011.01.26 11:17:00 -
[28]
Dear OP,
you have a very nice description of the game mechanics of incursions in highsec. You even described to winning strategy in great detail. Yet you fail to gang up with like minded individuals to take advantage of those game mechanics.
EVE is a competitive game. If other players play better then you, they win and you lose. It's not up to the game designers to make you a better player.
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Lakut
Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition
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Posted - 2011.01.26 11:37:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Mad Yojik
Originally by: Asaface Basically - A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF NOOBS ARE MAKING THIS SOUND LIKE A BAD MECHANIC
I currently have completed 7 vanguards and an assault, with sweet fleets of 11 or 18, u need the right fittings, right fleet comps, pro logi's and pro FC's
When you get that, like i had for 14 hours last night, you will have 115M paid to you by concord (like i have so far) and 16k LP on the way (like i have)
Proof - http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1101/Cursion_5.jpg
Stop being a noob and fly properly with proper people, in proper fleet comps, with proper fittings and proper synergy
Then you wont be one of the other million QQ thread OPs
PS - No losses all night for any of our fleet except a dumbass scorpion who didnt know how to broadcast "need xxxx"
115 m for 14 hours.... Less then 10 M per-hour income. L4s beats it easy. And you dont need fleet, pro logis and 30 Mil SP to fly them proper. I can (not being a "pro missionrunner") make about 20-30M per-hour. And it is supposed to be a LOT more (its sort of L5 and sleeper content, where you pop easy doing wrong things, and dont do alone, so it should pay up).
Having been in fleet with him p much the whole 14h, we had a lot of downtime as well. People leaving and us having poke stuff for a replacement ship of whatever we lost, people coming online that needed to come over from Tribute first, people going afk for smokes (o/ guilty), tea, coffee (also guilty), bio breaks (guilty because of all the coffee), food, doing the dishes, etc. Stuff like that.
If you're competent, an Override Transfer Array is easily done in 10-15 minutes for 10-15mil ISK reward up front and CONCORD LP down the road. Doesn't sound too shabby to me, tbh. Most importantly, the issue is that this is already my signature. ---------- You get a wonderful view from the point of no return. |
Allegar
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Posted - 2011.01.26 11:50:00 -
[30]
Honestly i also would very much appreciate some kind of appreciate some kind of involvment curve. even if you must be in a fleet in order to earn it. at the very least a decent bounty considering you're "defending" these systems. i was at it for five hours the first night and had absolutely nothing from it but some pro-sansha pod kills that decided to set off smart bombs.
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