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StrykerR1	Posted - 2011.01.26 01:40:00 - [1] LOL so i have done 14 hours of incursions countless sites to many fleets to think about and i have gotten 0isk 0lp something always screwed me in the arse. to many players DO'H didnt contribute enough ( several time we were the only fleet in the site till the end and we didnt contribute? )( also a fleet would hijack out site at the very end ) did one whole HQ with a fleet only us no others. finished it destroyed the mobile hq i got 0 isk 0 lp also lost 3 hypers. so is incursions cool? yes the idea is sound so is incursions flawed? yes the mechanics need to be HEAVILY revamp there is no reason i should do all the work and have a fleet come in an hijack a kill to finish it! so is incursions OP? yes/no i understand being hard but a hyper tanked t2 hyper lasted......35 seconds? with RR and RD. way to hard at some moments maybe tone down the damage they do a tad bit so is incusions worth it? simply put No they are not, if you do HQ and higher you are playing russian roulette, you get targeted befor u can even get a broadcast out to the RR logi guys. bamb your dead so its only a matter of time lol. my honest review on incursions atm
Aunty Nora	Posted - 2011.01.26 04:57:00 - [2] you forgot the key element to playing any game. Did you have fun ?
Goose99	Posted - 2011.01.26 05:17:00 - [3] You join a fleet with 100 noobs and thus got 0 isk. I'd say the reward curve is working as intended. If the gang isn't made of purely HACs, Command ships, and logis, it won't be profitable. The problem with eve is pugs don't tell you the kind of ships people bring until you actually joins it. It's not like "oh hey, a lvl85 cleric," in Eve, you can't tell the noobs from serious carebears. When you find yourself as the only logi among masses of Catalysts, leave.
Mister Agreeable	Posted - 2011.01.26 05:30:00 - [4] Fun? Fun??? WHERE ARE MY EPIX????!!?? I RAIDED BOSSES ALL DAY LONG AND NOT A SINGLE EPIC!!! FFS I WANT EPIX!!!!!
Jonni Favorite Red Slice Enterprise The Company LLC	Posted - 2011.01.26 05:31:00 - [5] Originally by: Aunty Nora you forgot the key element to playing any game. Did you have fun ? You forgot the key difference between a toy and a game. A toy is a novelty item that might catch your attention for a while, only to be discarded under your bed later when you get bored with it. A game has rules and a predictable result. People play games in the hopes that when they follow the rules they have a chance to win at the end. The more difficult the challenge the more rewards at the end. The OP is not the only one to feel that while the rules were followed, the cookie was not there at the end, so other than a masochistic tendency, why do it again tomorrow? I will give it another chance but man this game needs some work and some serious balancing. Some bounties wouldn't hurt either..
Goose99	Posted - 2011.01.26 05:33:00 - [6] Originally by: Jonni Favorite masochistic tendency This pretty much sums it up.
Toovhon	Posted - 2011.01.26 05:39:00 - [7] Well I was shocked at a super passive Drake dying in a couple seconds. I knew it wasn't going to do very well (it was a fit specifically for level IV missions), but I thought I'd at least have time to warp out when targeted. Nup. 100's of players in our two fleets were chased away. So I returned in a cruiser to do a much smaller incursion plex with a 40 person cruiser and frigate fleet. Died. Ok, lessons learnt - Incursions require a rather PvP type fit, tactics, and buffer tanks, with heavy logistics. Also bring the biggest baddest possible ship. Final lesson from watching other better fleets - you'll still often die. Ouch... Now I still had a blast in massive groups (1000's of players were there) rarely seen in high sec, and losing a few ships was still fun and many laughs were had. But there were no good moments from victories... because there were none. Only funny moments from amusing deaths and our own good humour buoying us on. However once the newness is gone, I wonder how many high sec pilots will care to risk a lot of ISK on some LP rewards, when level IVs and PvE activity in reasonably secure 0.0 sec earns a steady income with little risk. I mean what's going to happen when your system is invaded? If you're in a powerful alliance you might rally players to repel it in low or null sec, if only to maintain your income from that space. But in high sec? Well, after today I'll just be moving systems. It's not worth it. That sucks IMO. Incursions would seem to be only high end activity requiring considerable resources and organisation. In the end? Every system in high sec is controlled by Sansha? LOL. Well it's 100% Sansha controlled across the board even in 0.0 right now... -- Frog blast the vent core!
Amnepoh Minmatar Republic Military School	Posted - 2011.01.26 05:43:00 - [8] Its not that there are no cookies at the end... its just that challenge, as you called it, is quite hard. We seen same thing when WH were first introduced. This game doesnt need another solo farm feature: kill xxx red crosses, get xxx isk and lp. you can do that in normal missions. This is a massive fleet event. and if hige PUG fleets have no organisation whatsoever, the result will be the same. Im looking forward to doing incusions with solid gang/fleet.
Soldarius Caldari Northstar Cabal R.A.G.E	Posted - 2011.01.26 05:46:00 - [9] Goose, I find your lack of face disturbing. Damn, I never get tired of that one. Gonna have to put that in my sig. I think the problem with the incursion system now is that as you say there does not appear to be any cookies. There are. But they are easily stolen and hard to get. The hoops are small, and the distance is great. Players must do things that they are unaccustomed to, and difficult to learn. Eve is not so much about get the better weapon so that you can beat the boss. A better weapon helps some. But if you don't know how to use that fancy new weapon, you still won't kill the boss. Hand a gun to someone who has never touched one, and they are more likely to kill themself or an ally than an enemy. What you really need to do is go over to the test server with some friends and have at it. Or at least use really cheap stuff until you have learned what works. Your standard PvE fits and tactics are useless vs Sansha incursion sites. 1. Adapt 2. Overcome 3. Profit Originally by: CCP Shadow ...I cannot guarantee (my) sobriety or decency.
Mister Agreeable	Posted - 2011.01.26 05:47:00 - [10] So, in short, incursion rats are like C6 sleepers on steroids, and rewards are worth **** all. Just what we need, thanks CCP.
waxx25 Gallente Ready. Aim. Fire.	Posted - 2011.01.26 06:03:00 - [11] guys, seriously all this stuff about losing this super tanked hyperion or that really passive drake is just sad. ccp did this on purpose. no single ship is going to live through this. If my team was able to do these sites in nothing but dominixes which are dirt cheap there should be no complaining. teamwork is the key in these and no these rats arent like c6 sleepers on steroids (sleepers damn near insta popped drones these dont) just use your heads guys. otherwise go play wow
Rip Minner Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries	Posted - 2011.01.26 06:23:00 - [12] Edited by: Rip Minner on 26/01/2011 06:23:47 Originally by: Amnepoh Its not that there are no cookies at the end... its just that challenge, as you called it, is quite hard. We seen same thing when WH were first introduced. This game doesnt need another solo farm feature: kill xxx red crosses, get xxx isk and lp. you can do that in normal missions. This is a massive fleet event. and if hige PUG fleets have no organisation whatsoever, the result will be the same. Im looking forward to doing incusions with solid gang/fleet. Solid gang/fleets are still lossing ships bro. You lose your ship you dont get payed. Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here.
Jonni Favorite Red Slice Enterprise The Company LLC	Posted - 2011.01.26 06:35:00 - [13] Originally by: Rip Minner Edited by: Rip Minner on 26/01/2011 06:23:47 Originally by: Amnepoh Its not that there are no cookies at the end... its just that challenge, as you called it, is quite hard. We seen same thing when WH were first introduced. Solid gang/fleets are still lossing ships bro. You lose your ship you dont get payed. Although it's still the first day so I feel there's some potential once we figure out what works, what doesn't. I was probably one of he luckier ones and although I didn't make any isk, I didn't lose any, mainly because I spent the first few hours reading the chats and forum reports and retooling my ship several times. I've been in large fleets before but this was the first time I got into a logi Domi or logi of any kind and that was a lot of fun and got me some valuable skills that I'll use in the future. Someone else mentioned this being a great way for people that normally wouldn't fleet up for a pvp like event and Incursions is a great way to get your feet wet and see if that's your thing at all. I think the group I was with was doing mostly Vanguards I have to admit I was too much into it to pay much attention to anything but the FC and/or my other logi buddies in smaller traditional logistics ships popping left and right around me before I could even lock them lol. Sorry guys
Rip Minner Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries	Posted - 2011.01.26 07:00:00 - [14] Edited by: Rip Minner on 26/01/2011 07:01:41 Even so the rewards system is heavly flawed. If your going to fight that hard and loss ships. You ether need 1.) Real people that your killing to rub there noses in it. 2.) Some kind of great reward that you know your going to get for helping. Right now you lose your ship or another fleet comes in and takes your reward it's like f*ck all. And the reward is not at the level that it pays the replacement fee of your lost ship not that your geting a reward at that point ether. Edit: How ever I do see low sec people loving this even later on. They already like doing missions that dont pay reward Vers risk on a even bases. Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here.
ArmyOfMe Pastry Productions Inc. Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2011.01.26 07:15:00 - [15] spent a few hours yesterday doing incursions with a random unorganized fleet the things i did notice is 1) the npc's are quite hard(Awesome, about time that happend in empire as well) 2) the rewards are ****. 3) didnt get any rewards most of the time simply cause the fleets were to big. 4) most ppl seemed to enjoy being in fleets and having fun
Doctor Ungabungas Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.01.26 07:22:00 - [16] Originally by: ArmyOfMe 1) the npc's are quite hard(Awesome, about time that happend in empire as well) Rather than a level 4 where you kills hundreds of NPC rats, they should have two or three frigates, a cruiser and a BS that act more like these NPC's.
Goose99	Posted - 2011.01.26 07:44:00 - [17] Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas Originally by: ArmyOfMe 1) the npc's are quite hard(Awesome, about time that happend in empire as well) Rather than a level 4 where you kills hundreds of NPC rats, they should have two or three frigates, a cruiser and a BS that act more like these NPC's. Except you're not paid the equivalent of hundreds of rats, but rather two or three frigates, a cruiser and a BS. Well, maybe less.
Jack Abramof	Posted - 2011.01.26 08:19:00 - [18] I think its safe to consider this as a "raid encounter" in traditionnal MMOs, so maybe it would be a good idea to do it with corp members only, so you know the people you re with, you work with a strategy and you avoid the problem of being ripped off from any reward if you get popped. I dont think i m ever going to do any incursions stuff but doing this kind of event in a PUG is a disaster waiting to happen
Doctor Ungabungas Caldari GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation	Posted - 2011.01.26 09:14:00 - [19] Originally by: Jack Abramof I think its safe to consider this as a "raid encounter" in traditionnal MMOs, so maybe it would be a good idea to do it with corp members only, so you know the people you re with, you work with a strategy and you avoid the problem of being ripped off from any reward if you get popped. I dont think i m ever going to do any incursions stuff but doing this kind of event in a PUG is a disaster waiting to happen If only there was a mechanism by which people with similar in-game goals could team up and share resources, tactics and trust. I don't know what we'd call this mechanism though.
Tanthius Vanter Gallente Vanter Ventures	Posted - 2011.01.26 09:16:00 - [20] Originally by: Doctor Ungabungas Originally by: Jack Abramof I think its safe to consider this as a "raid encounter" in traditionnal MMOs, so maybe it would be a good idea to do it with corp members only, so you know the people you re with, you work with a strategy and you avoid the problem of being ripped off from any reward if you get popped. I dont think i m ever going to do any incursions stuff but doing this kind of event in a PUG is a disaster waiting to happen If only there was a mechanism by which people with similar in-game goals could team up and share resources, tactics and trust. I don't know what we'd call this mechanism though. Space-Guilds. /nod
Winters Chill Amarr Aesir Frontiers Asgard Alliance	Posted - 2011.01.26 09:59:00 - [21] Originally by: Mister Agreeable WHERE ARE MY EPIX????!!?? I RAIDED BOSSES ALL DAY LONG AND NOT A SINGLE EPIC!!! FFS I WANT EPIX!!!!! I know you think your being ironic mr "people play other games so are less 'intelligent' than I am". However a tangible reward for activity is the reason why many people play online games. Even pvpers get a kill mail as a reward for their victory. Activity with no reward will soon find itself with few participants, save those who enjoy the activity itself, however for most this will not be enough. Maybe you should think a little before posting, then you wouldn't look so thoughtless.
Sun Ying Caldari Sun Ltd.	Posted - 2011.01.26 10:19:00 - [22] Originally by: Winters Chill Originally by: Mister Agreeable WHERE ARE MY EPIX????!!?? I RAIDED BOSSES ALL DAY LONG AND NOT A SINGLE EPIC!!! FFS I WANT EPIX!!!!! I know you think your being ironic mr "people play other games so are less 'intelligent' than I am". However a tangible reward for activity is the reason why many people play online games. Even pvpers get a kill mail as a reward for their victory. Activity with no reward will soon find itself with few participants, save those who enjoy the activity itself, however for most this will not be enough. Maybe you should think a little before posting, then you wouldn't look so thoughtless. the difference vs mature and childish perfectly illustrated :)
Belen Shields	Posted - 2011.01.26 10:33:00 - [23] If you wanna earn some cash and LP with incursions, look for a corp that is doing them! No T1 Logistics, no T1 at all except BS and with that in mind you can hit the requirements for the cash out.
Asaface	Posted - 2011.01.26 10:43:00 - [24] Basically - A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF NOOBS ARE MAKING THIS SOUND LIKE A BAD MECHANIC I currently have completed 7 vanguards and an assault, with sweet fleets of 11 or 18, u need the right fittings, right fleet comps, pro logi's and pro FC's When you get that, like i had for 14 hours last night, you will have 115M paid to you by concord (like i have so far) and 16k LP on the way (like i have) Proof - http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1101/Cursion_5.jpg Stop being a noob and fly properly with proper people, in proper fleet comps, with proper fittings and proper synergy Then you wont be one of the other million QQ thread OPs PS - No losses all night for any of our fleet except a dumbass scorpion who didnt know how to broadcast "need xxxx"
Mad Yojik	Posted - 2011.01.26 10:54:00 - [25] Edited by: Mad Yojik on 26/01/2011 10:57:13 The main problems with hisec Incursions is just two - griefers and lack of rewards. First - griefers: Anyone knowing a bit in game GCC mechanics said that "PUG fleets will fail!". You get one griefer in a fleet and its a mess, even if you're not spider tanking - grifer concord the logis and all fleet in a world of hurt. So only organized groups like 0.0 PvP corps can participate,since even if you as a hisec carebear want it - most hisec 'bear corps are too stretched between timezones and full of alts, worried only by ISK per hour to fuel their mains. Second - Well, assuming you got together a tight group,your people trust each other,and that group is small enough to get a full-scale reward on Vanguard site. To achieve this you likely need a couple of T2 logis, and no less then four or five T2 cruisers, otherwise - you get banged. You got to site, kill anything that moves, and get a 10 M ISK reward (In hisec you never get your 15M fully.). In what I saw - cleaning the site comes around an hour or so. Lets make it 30 min, just to max out rewards. Then you have 20M per hour. 20 Mil is an average income per L4, counting in bounties and salvage, and most of 'em can be done in 30-45 min or so, not requiring any expensive T2 cruiser. Also, mistakes tend to happen, and if cost of those in L4 is fairly low (generally you just warp out, repair and get your reward, or if you get killed (VERY unlikely in L4 properly tanked ship) - you just buy yourself a new T1 BS, and pick up your mods where they lie) - in Incursion site any mistake, or lag, or disconnect can cost you your ship.... And HACs are 100M+ now, plus you will not likely a) get a reward if your fleet wins b) Will not be able to pick your expensive mods if your fleet fails. And how many Incursion sites you have to run to get a 100M+ for a new hull? 10? 15? CCP - Please bump up Incursion rewards!!! Now fighting off hisec incursions is pointless imo. Sorry for the long wall of text, thanks for reading it.
cragz	Posted - 2011.01.26 10:59:00 - [26] Edited by: cragz on 26/01/2011 11:00:42 Too many trolls in here I see. As mentioned in another post my fleet was at for 11 hours doing HQ's with the recommended up to 40. Second one we kept it under 40 for the most part and we defo had the most influence as there were really any established fleets like ours. Anyway: http://img121.imageshack.us/i/incursionhq.jpg/ Objective completed and nothing logged last night and same again today having cleared the cache. Don't get me wrong it is fun to start with but getting nothing after 11 hours then logging back in to find Penalty status back to 100% after managing to get it down to 44% is crazy. thats considering the fleets throughout the consitillation and hundreds of players in the systems completing the plexes. We want fun but also want to achieve something specially if we do this for hours on end. (it take much much more time than neccesary to repel the incursions IMO)
Mad Yojik	Posted - 2011.01.26 11:07:00 - [27] Originally by: Asaface Basically - A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF NOOBS ARE MAKING THIS SOUND LIKE A BAD MECHANIC I currently have completed 7 vanguards and an assault, with sweet fleets of 11 or 18, u need the right fittings, right fleet comps, pro logi's and pro FC's When you get that, like i had for 14 hours last night, you will have 115M paid to you by concord (like i have so far) and 16k LP on the way (like i have) Proof - http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1101/Cursion_5.jpg Stop being a noob and fly properly with proper people, in proper fleet comps, with proper fittings and proper synergy Then you wont be one of the other million QQ thread OPs PS - No losses all night for any of our fleet except a dumbass scorpion who didnt know how to broadcast "need xxxx" 115 m for 14 hours.... Less then 10 M per-hour income. L4s beats it easy. And you dont need fleet, pro logis and 30 Mil SP to fly them proper. I can (not being a "pro missionrunner") make about 20-30M per-hour. And it is supposed to be a LOT more (its sort of L5 and sleeper content, where you pop easy doing wrong things, and dont do alone, so it should pay up).
gfldex	Posted - 2011.01.26 11:17:00 - [28] Dear OP, you have a very nice description of the game mechanics of incursions in highsec. You even described to winning strategy in great detail. Yet you fail to gang up with like minded individuals to take advantage of those game mechanics. EVE is a competitive game. If other players play better then you, they win and you lose. It's not up to the game designers to make you a better player.
Lakut Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition	Posted - 2011.01.26 11:37:00 - [29] Originally by: Mad Yojik Originally by: Asaface Basically - A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF NOOBS ARE MAKING THIS SOUND LIKE A BAD MECHANIC I currently have completed 7 vanguards and an assault, with sweet fleets of 11 or 18, u need the right fittings, right fleet comps, pro logi's and pro FC's When you get that, like i had for 14 hours last night, you will have 115M paid to you by concord (like i have so far) and 16k LP on the way (like i have) Proof - http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1101/Cursion_5.jpg Stop being a noob and fly properly with proper people, in proper fleet comps, with proper fittings and proper synergy Then you wont be one of the other million QQ thread OPs PS - No losses all night for any of our fleet except a dumbass scorpion who didnt know how to broadcast "need xxxx" 115 m for 14 hours.... Less then 10 M per-hour income. L4s beats it easy. And you dont need fleet, pro logis and 30 Mil SP to fly them proper. I can (not being a "pro missionrunner") make about 20-30M per-hour. And it is supposed to be a LOT more (its sort of L5 and sleeper content, where you pop easy doing wrong things, and dont do alone, so it should pay up). Having been in fleet with him p much the whole 14h, we had a lot of downtime as well. People leaving and us having poke stuff for a replacement ship of whatever we lost, people coming online that needed to come over from Tribute first, people going afk for smokes (o/ guilty), tea, coffee (also guilty), bio breaks (guilty because of all the coffee), food, doing the dishes, etc. Stuff like that. If you're competent, an Override Transfer Array is easily done in 10-15 minutes for 10-15mil ISK reward up front and CONCORD LP down the road. Doesn't sound too shabby to me, tbh. Most importantly, the issue is that this is already my signature. ---------- You get a wonderful view from the point of no return.
Allegar	Posted - 2011.01.26 11:50:00 - [30] Honestly i also would very much appreciate some kind of appreciate some kind of involvment curve. even if you must be in a fleet in order to earn it. at the very least a decent bounty considering you're "defending" these systems. i was at it for five hours the first night and had absolutely nothing from it but some pro-sansha pod kills that decided to set off smart bombs.
Shigeono Minmatar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2011.01.26 11:55:00 - [31] Hi, Reading all this, I am really wondering how a low SP player like me (and most people in my corp) would be able to take part to these incursions. We fly T1 BC and BS essentially which, from what I am getting, would be pretty useless. Any kind of advice on what kind of fleet setup could be used by low SP players? Thank you in advance for your answers "Most of the fundamental ideas of science are essentially simple, and may, as a rule, be expressed in a language comprehensible to everyone" AE
Mad Yojik	Posted - 2011.01.26 12:32:00 - [32] Originally by: Lakut Having been in fleet with him p much the whole 14h, we had a lot of downtime as well. People leaving and us having poke stuff for a replacement ship of whatever we lost, people coming online that needed to come over from Tribute first, people going afk for smokes (o/ guilty), tea, coffee (also guilty), bio breaks (guilty because of all the coffee), food, doing the dishes, etc. Stuff like that. If you're competent, an Override Transfer Array is easily done in 10-15 minutes for 10-15mil ISK reward up front and CONCORD LP down the road. Doesn't sound too shabby to me, tbh. Wouldnt argue with you that, you sound like you know what you doing, especially since I've not done them myself, only watched people die there, and they were quite noob ;) . Though people poking about replacement ships clearly conflict with "We lost just one stupid scorp" Asaface said. Anyway - I dont think a 10-17M SP player flying T1 stuff can participate in that, and most of them flying around incursions are. And at least the money comparable to L4 input (done solo and half-afk),some missioner claimed to me he has 60M per hour input, and L5s are worth a lot more. Anyway any team action is good for MMO, unless some stupid ****swarm comes last moment and steals your money ;). I just think the reward should be at least twice as big.
Lakut Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition	Posted - 2011.01.26 12:48:00 - [33] Originally by: Mad Yojik Originally by: Lakut Having been in fleet with him p much the whole 14h, we had a lot of downtime as well. People leaving and us having poke stuff for a replacement ship of whatever we lost, people coming online that needed to come over from Tribute first, people going afk for smokes (o/ guilty), tea, coffee (also guilty), bio breaks (guilty because of all the coffee), food, doing the dishes, etc. Stuff like that. If you're competent, an Override Transfer Array is easily done in 10-15 minutes for 10-15mil ISK reward up front and CONCORD LP down the road. Doesn't sound too shabby to me, tbh. Wouldnt argue with you that, you sound like you know what you doing, especially since I've not done them myself, only watched people die there, and they were quite noob ;) . Though people poking about replacement ships clearly conflict with "We lost just one stupid scorp" Asaface said. Anyway - I dont think a 10-17M SP player flying T1 stuff can participate in that, and most of them flying around incursions are. And at least the money comparable to L4 input (done solo and half-afk),some missioner claimed to me he has 60M per hour input, and L5s are worth a lot more. Anyway any team action is good for MMO, unless some stupid ****swarm comes last moment and steals your money ;). I just think the reward should be at least twice as big. Sorry, I meant replacements for people that left and/or went offline. We really only lost that one scorp once we got the raeptrain going and removed the brakes. And we really only lost it due to the scorp being scrubby and not broadcasting for Armor so it only got reps from like half the logis we had while taking damage from a full respawn wave in an Assault site. Most importantly, the issue is that this is already my signature. ---------- You get a wonderful view from the point of no return.
TacticalNuclearPenguin	Posted - 2011.01.26 13:12:00 - [34] I, too bawww like a spoiled child when I haven't figured out the risk-less cookie-cutter min/max way immediately after I've run into something new.
Shexu	Posted - 2011.01.26 13:14:00 - [35] Originally by: StrykerR1 LOL so i have done 14 hours of incursions countless sites....... What he said. I'm really not impressed with incursions at all, it's just more of the same but harder.
AstarothPrime	Posted - 2011.01.26 13:32:00 - [36] Ok - its nice. It needs 500 ppl fleet. It pays out 0. How do you raise 500 ppl fleet doint something that pays 0? What is the mechanism offered to help gathering that size of a fleet? Ok there is a whip. But no carrot. Whip works in 0sec sov space because ppl will drive bugger out eventually, but hisec is just meh. Noone will do this minigame under current conditions. Whoever shoots even 1 shot at a rat should receive something, LP, anything... Regards I.
Umbriele Gallente Etoilles Mortant Ltd. Solyaris Chtonium	Posted - 2011.01.26 14:08:00 - [37] Anyone has tried a fleet of 100% RR dominix yet? I cant believe that 10x5=50 T2 drones with max skills dont do enough damage. Also 5-10 dominix could put up enough RR I suppose ?
Mithrasith	Posted - 2011.01.26 14:13:00 - [38] Originally by: Umbriele Anyone has tried a fleet of 100% RR dominix yet? I cant believe that 10x5=50 T2 drones with max skills dont do enough damage. Also 5-10 dominix could put up enough RR I suppose ? I would think you would still need Logi's (probably with sensor boosters), and AFAIK Sansha's also go after drones. In addition, you would also need some Loki's with you to Web down the frigs, and the cruisers, otherwise your Domi's wouldnt be hitting sh*t
Mad Yojik	Posted - 2011.01.26 14:37:00 - [39] Originally by: AstarothPrime Ok - its nice. It needs 500 ppl fleet. It pays out 0. How do you raise 500 ppl fleet doint something that pays 0? What is the mechanism offered to help gathering that size of a fleet? Ok there is a whip. But no carrot. Whip works in 0sec sov space because ppl will drive bugger out eventually, but hisec is just meh. Noone will do this minigame under current conditions. Whoever shoots even 1 shot at a rat should receive something, LP, anything... Regards I. Why it needs 500 ppl fleet - It needs a number of solid 10-20 ppl gangs which knows how to work together (within each gang). That way it pays, a small amount for such work IMO, but it does. OR it needs 500 ppl who dont, and that way it pays 0. Unfortunately most hisec ppl dont know how to work together in a fleet - so its damn stupid blob,shooting in everything that moves, without any sort of common brains, chain of command, sorta. So the lot of people getting killed and cry, 'cause logi repairs wrong target, cause some stupid griefer concorded a logi/spider fleet, cause fleet dps spread even instead of primaring that damn Sansha logi and so on... Till we learn to act in fleets, not mindless blobs - its even stupid to try to take that Sanshas on, IMHO. And lot of us hisec carebears are not here to fly a fleet, but to feel as "solo superhero" missioning.
Nicky's Tomb	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:00:00 - [40] I'm curious as to whether CCP would actually let the Sansha story play out if nobody really bothered to retake systems. Would Sansha spread a world of tears across all of HiSec preventing almost all normal operations and ISK gathering? Bring Eve to it's knees in a global depression? I would doubt it very much. This release seems to me to be the least new player friendly there has been. It's shouts, "New Players, Flee and hide! An NPC war of a caliber only defensible by the 3-5 year olds is upon us." I'm going to assume some back end story steps in to weaken the Sansha resolve and swing the tide. I probably won't be getting involved, I, nor my corp can really afford to be losing T2 ships every night. Might just leave it to the 0.0 PvP blob fleet corps who do this **** every night against each other.
Fractal Muse	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:04:00 - [41] Take a lot of people who typically play entirely alone (maybe with their own alt to back them up) then stuff them into fleet encounters. Then ask what will happen. Until people learn how to support one another and operate as a team the rewards for incursions will be slim to none. Those who figure out how to work as a team will rip through the sites and make good ISK / LP. I'm glad to see something that requires teamwork in high sec. Once the novelty of it wears off the number of people who do incursions will settle down into regular teams who will be very well rewarded for their time.
Darth Zaruln	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:13:00 - [42] All this and no one mentions the most important item. What is in the concord lp store?
Lakut Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:16:00 - [43] Originally by: Nicky's Tomb I probably won't be getting involved, I, nor my corp can really afford to be losing T2 ships every night. Might just leave it to the 0.0 PvP blob fleet corps who do this ** every night against each other. If you can fly T2 ships and do so competently you won't be losing them every night if you know how to work in a Team. If you can't fly them competently and have bad teamwork, you'll die in a pretty fire. Originally by:** Darth Zaruln All this and no one mentions the most important item. What is in the concord lp store? http://www.ellatha.com/eve/lp/Concord Most importantly, the issue is that this is already my signature. ---------- You get a wonderful view from the point of no return.
Vim Spiritus Draconis	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:17:00 - [44] Edited by: Vim on 26/01/2011 15:18:11 We threw abit of a mixmash in at first, did ok, but took two unnecessary losses, thoose bomber frigs hurt when the sansha commander comes ^^ Back to the drawing board and getting people into ships fitted for the occasion. Problems with new setup: None, althou we lacked some of the pref primary ships for it, had to make do with what we had and we only managed 50m/hour /fleetmember, abit more tweaks and right ships I think we could ramp it up to 60-70 on vanguards, which isnt to bad it gets everyone fleet experience and something abit like pvp experience as well. I do not think at this point in time that a stepup from vanguards to assaults will be worth it iskwise compared to crunching vanguards at speed to. But we'll try soon enough, trying to get more recruits in the meantime so we get a wider array of people able to switch ships out for whats needed. Also assault sites in losec will have to differ somewhat setupwise, point and other extra mods from our usual pvp setups will have to be worked into it all. Warping out because of a pie is in a local will greatly reduce income levels, warping out because a 40 man pie gang comes, sure fine, warping out because a 10-16man pie gang comes: PvP & Incursions, hopefully will turnout interesting with the incrats making it a threeway :P
Lakut Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition	Posted - 2011.01.26 15:20:00 - [45] Originally by: Vim PvP & Incursions, hopefully will turnout interesting with the incrats making it a threeway :P Worked with wormholes. vOv (I used to regularly gank stuff with mates in W-Space, not doing the PVE) Most importantly, the issue is that this is already my signature. ---------- You get a wonderful view from the point of no return.
Jack Abramof	Posted - 2011.01.26 16:57:00 - [46] Originally by: AstarothPrime Ok - its nice. It needs 500 ppl fleet. It pays out 0. No offense but typical eve syndrome : "lets just blob it " Somehow I highly doubt that CCP design those encounter to be run by 500 people even 100. CCP should even do different reward in terms of LP and cash according to the number of people who run the mission. Huge blob => low reward small group better reward so on and so forth
Ulstan	Posted - 2011.01.26 17:44:00 - [47] CCP has apparently decided to give all players 0 rewards for completing sites and just tell everyone they weren't the highest contributor. Clever! They have no way of disproving the assertion :D Just one more reason why that system is a bad one, even if it wasn't bugged.
Ulstan	Posted - 2011.01.26 17:53:00 - [48] Originally by: Asaface I currently have completed 7 vanguards and an assault, with sweet fleets of 11 or 18, u need the right fittings, right fleet comps, pro logi's and pro FC's When you get that, like i had for 14 hours last night, you will have 115M paid to you by concord (like i have so far) and 16k LP on the way (like i have) That's honestly a pretty pitiful amount of money to show for 14 hours work. You'd be better off running L4 missions, which is also a terrible way to make money. 10M per hour? I think mining bots can make more than that...
Jason W0rthing Nexus Aerospace Corporation	Posted - 2011.01.26 19:16:00 - [49] Originally by: Ulstan Originally by: Asaface I currently have completed 7 vanguards and an assault, with sweet fleets of 11 or 18, u need the right fittings, right fleet comps, pro logi's and pro FC's When you get that, like i had for 14 hours last night, you will have 115M paid to you by concord (like i have so far) and 16k LP on the way (like i have) That's honestly a pretty pitiful amount of money to show for 14 hours work. You'd be better off running L4 missions, which is also a terrible way to make money. 10M per hour? I think mining bots can make more than that... Pretty much this. I'd say based on the amount of effort that goes into incursions you should be able to pull in 80-100m an hour pretty easily with a well-organized group of BS/Logi. As it stands, currently the rewards are pitifully low. Originally by: CCP Shadow What is thy bidd -- Wait. This thread, I have an irresistible urge to lock it for "being related to neither crime nor punishment."
Vim Spiritus Draconis	Posted - 2011.01.26 19:28:00 - [50] O_o I'am expecting 60-70m/hr per fleet member+concord lp ontop when we got better people at hand, thats not to shabby actually. If your getting 110m for 14 hours of work, your doing it horrendously wrong.
Brigge Tremdut	Posted - 2011.01.26 20:37:00 - [51] Edited by: Brigge Tremdut on 26/01/2011 20:38:29 Originally by: Mad Yojik Anyway - I dont think a 10-17M SP player flying T1 stuff can participate in that, and most of them flying around incursions are.quote] Discouraging to some of us who at this point simply cannot create skill points from nowhere to buffer our skills and such. But life moves on and we will see where it goes, some of us just hope we survive long enough to get there. edit: sp
Toovhon	Posted - 2011.01.27 02:34:00 - [52] Originally by: Jack Abramof I think its safe to consider this as a "raid encounter" in traditionnal MMOs, so maybe it would be a good idea to do it with corp members only, so you know the people you re with, you work with a strategy and you avoid the problem of being ripped off from any reward if you get popped. I dont think i m ever going to do any incursions stuff but doing this kind of event in a PUG is a disaster waiting to happen The obvious flaw with that is this is being forced on random constellations, and you're screwed if you happen to live there. Raids in other MMOs don't negatively affect the general population. These do in a big way. -- Frog blast the vent core!
Emperor Cheney Celebrity Sex Tape	Posted - 2011.01.27 02:52:00 - [53] Edited by: Emperor Cheney on 27/01/2011 02:52:22 These will be profitable, because the capital modules in the concord LP store are extremely desirable, and incursion sites are limited. The average LVL 4 carebear won't necessarily do incursions if they're not willing to adapt to them, but some people certainly will.
Mina Hiragi Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2011.01.27 04:21:00 - [54] Originally by: Toovhon The obvious flaw with that is this is being forced on random constellations, and you're screwed if you happen to live there. Raids in other MMOs don't negatively affect the general population. These do in a big way. I know, right? Oh, how I wish CCP allowed travel between systems.
Rip Minner Gallente ARMITAGE Logistics Salvage and Industries	Posted - 2011.01.27 07:22:00 - [55] Originally by: Mad Yojik Originally by: Asaface Basically - A MASSIVE AMOUNT OF NOOBS ARE MAKING THIS SOUND LIKE A BAD MECHANIC I currently have completed 7 vanguards and an assault, with sweet fleets of 11 or 18, u need the right fittings, right fleet comps, pro logi's and pro FC's When you get that, like i had for 14 hours last night, you will have 115M paid to you by concord (like i have so far) and 16k LP on the way (like i have) Proof - http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1101/Cursion_5.jpg Stop being a noob and fly properly with proper people, in proper fleet comps, with proper fittings and proper synergy Then you wont be one of the other million QQ thread OPs PS - No losses all night for any of our fleet except a dumbass scorpion who didnt know how to broadcast "need xxxx" 115 m for 14 hours.... Less then 10 M per-hour income. L4s beats it easy. And you dont need fleet, pro logis and 30 Mil SP to fly them proper. I can (not being a "pro missionrunner") make about 20-30M per-hour. And it is supposed to be a LOT more (its sort of L5 and sleeper content, where you pop easy doing wrong things, and dont do alone, so it should pay up). Hell man I can mine in high sec and make 10mil an hour lmao Is it a rock? Point a Lazer at it and profit. Is it a ship? Point a Lazer at it and profit. I dont realy see any differnces here.
Toovhon	Posted - 2011.01.27 08:10:00 - [56] Originally by: Mina Hiragi Originally by: Toovhon The obvious flaw with that is this is being forced on random constellations, and you're screwed if you happen to live there. Raids in other MMOs don't negatively affect the general population. These do in a big way. I know, right? Oh, how I wish CCP allowed travel between systems. Boy that'll make high sec capsuleers happy having to uproot their missioning, mining, manufacturing and research base to another constellation. More likely of course is a temporary relocation forcing the player into one or two activities not requiring much infrastructure or reliance on the best possible agents, etc. That's sure to make them happy. But you just keep on ignoring the obvious... :-) -- Frog blast the vent core!
Cresalle	Posted - 2011.01.27 08:48:00 - [57] Hmm... I think I'll copy this thread for... No. I'll archive this entire forum as research material for my dissertation, "Single Idiot Theory - The Mechanics of Socially Driven Systematic Failure". The basic premise is that a certain degree of 'success' is required in order to meet a goal, and a certain degree of 'competence' is required to achieve 'success'. If you examine a system and ascertain the necessary objectives required to meet a goal then you can determine the required 'success' levels and thus the required 'competence' can be inferred. The theory is that when a goal needs to be met there will emerge a person or persons who do the work to understand these requirements. After this has happened the 'single idiot' arrives and observes their success and then attempts to emulate it but does not do the required work to understand the system at hand. This leads to inadequate competence and the idiot is required to seek other means of bolstering his/her success rate artificially (degrading the system). Then a single idiot arrives and observes the artificial success of the first idiot and the cycle continues until the poor ratio of competence to incompetence results in the goal-effort to consume all goal-oriented resources without producing success. In this scenario I'm actually observing firsthand the formation of a small (very small) percentage of the population developing the required knowledgebase to accomplish the goal at hand and politely producing intelligence and distributing it through various channels. Meanwhile the remainder of the population group (being the 99% who are not doing the brain work) are producing an exponentially larger pool of intelligence that is getting people killed and losing people mission rewards. So anyway I'm thinking about how this applies to my dissertation and also observing the mechanics of how the different groups react and interact with one another. This is, in point of fact, very much like what happened with apocrypha. In the case of apocrypha, however, I believe that there was a much larger active-disinformation campaign at work in order to reduce competition whereas in this case the disinformation appears to be the work of the unwashed masses (the crowd of 'single idiots'). tl/dr - If you don't know what you're doing or if you don't know what you're talking about then stop ***ing and shut the ** up. You may learn something if you stop talking for 5 seconds.
HeliosGal Caldari	Posted - 2011.01.27 09:25:00 - [58] Originally by: Nicky's Tomb I'm curious as to whether CCP would actually let the Sansha story play out if nobody really bothered to retake systems. Would Sansha spread a world of tears across all of HiSec preventing almost all normal operations and ISK gathering? Bring Eve to it's knees in a global depression? I would doubt it very much. This release seems to me to be the least new player friendly there has been. It's shouts, "New Players, Flee and hide! An NPC war of a caliber only defensible by the 3-5 year olds is upon us." I'm going to assume some back end story steps in to weaken the Sansha resolve and swing the tide. I probably won't be getting involved, I, nor my corp can really afford to be losing T2 ships every night. Might just leave it to the 0.0 PvP blob fleet corps who do this **** every night against each other. nah ccp arent that balsy they didnt even make the rats camp the high sec gates. My guess is ppl are ignoring incursions now to hard carebears cant organise numbers gone from 200 to 30 in most systems today those incursions will stay where they are unless ccp puts timers if the incursions arent removed as far as moving around
Pytria Le'Danness	Posted - 2011.01.27 09:32:00 - [59] Originally by: Shigeono Any kind of advice on what kind of fleet setup could be used by low SP players? Your major problem will be that not many people will be willing to trust you while you are in an NPC corp. Too many people abuse the CONCORD rules to get those repping them destroyed by CONCORD, so unless you know someone already the chance of getting into a good fleet is rather slim. I certainly would not rep someone I do not know, I want to stay in my ship, thank you . So the best advice is to look some people up and gain their trust. As for the fleet composition: As others have written the best fleet is one where everyone cooperates, has a specific role and does his best to fulfil that. You will want ships with high resists and a buffer tank with no local repair ability - the fitting you save is better used to improve your role (in other words: no shield booster/repper, but bigger guns ). Repair comes from the Logistics and is only applied to the primary, so you gain killing power at the cost of allocating one ship for remote repair. The bigger the fleet the more efficient this becomes - if one ship put in bigger guns instead of local repairs it's ok, but if ten or twenty ships do that a lot of extra DPS is generated. Usually you will want two Logistics though - Basilisks or Guardians preferably as they can generate capacitor. A spider tank (remote repper on the BS) works too, but you will be very immobile as the BS do not get the range bonus and thus have to sit within ~7km of each other. Signature/Speed plays a big role as well, so a smaller, faster ship will survive longer than a sluggish brick with high hit points but low resists. In a PUG I'd focus a bit more on self-reliance than hoping that the Logistics pilot knows what he is doing, which means the fleet will be less efficient. Again, find an established fleet that works well and join that, it's far better than teaming up with random strangers who might actually just try to loot your wreck. Even T1 ships can work pretty well. BS of course can be bricked out and/or do noticeable damage, but even T1 cruisers can help. If you fit a propulsion mod the incoming damage will be a lot less, and there are a lot of modules that help the fleet and are independent of ship size: webbers, scram (if that works on NPC MWD, haven't tested it yet), tracking disruptor, target painters. I'd shy away from actual ECM as the "AI" seems to primary ECM users and you don't want that in a T1 cruiser . I am not sure how BCs will fare as their speed and signature is closer to BS than cruisers and that might put them in a world of hurt. Frigates, besides speed and small signature, have the advantage of being off the radar for the "AI" unless they are designed to annoy (ECM ). Their dps will be so low compared to other ships that the NPCs will more or less ignore them most of the time. All in all in your position I'd show up in a buffered ship of a class I can afford to lose a few. I'd also bring spares and some extra fitting to adjust to the fleet's needs- also this helps once you do lose one of your ships. Then try to find some people who are good in a fleet and try to fleet with them as often as possible. Once you get to know them and they know you you can bring out the more expensive ships. Then ask to join their corp .
Rashmika Clavain Gallente	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:25:00 - [60] Well these patch notes may be related to some of you in this thread: Incursions Based on feedback from the community, we have reduced the rate at which Sansha's regain control of the constellations. An issue where the journal was not updating properly has been fixed.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.01.27 10:56:00 - [61] As for the time it takes to complete the vanguard missions - my group of three logistics cruisers, one unskilled Tengu (the pilot didn't even have Guided Missile Precision, LOL) and a bellicose (doing target painting) took 2 hours to clear the Sanshas spawns from the mining encounter. We then proceeded to wait for one guy to slowboat his hulk the 45km from warp-in to the rock, and found that it was 75k units, with more sansha spawns triggered by the mining operation. So the limiting factor here is going to be how fast you can mine that ore. With a few properly skilled combat pilots and a small mining fleet, it will take about 20min to clear the spawns and mine that ore, for 15M ISK per pilot. I won't complain about an interesting group activity that nets us each 40M ISK/hr. What I don't know yet is just how many spawns arrive in that encounter. More research needs to be done. -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
Miss Rabblt	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:27:00 - [62] Originally by: Asaface I currently have completed 7 vanguards and an assault, with sweet fleets of 11 or 18, u need the right fittings, right fleet comps, pro logi's and pro FC's When you get that, like i had for 14 hours last night, you will have 115M paid to you by concord (like i have so far) and 16k LP on the way (like i have) i hope you got really nice gifts from LP store of Concord then. Because 115mils and 16kLPs for 14(!!!!) hours of fights is like doing lvl2 i think.... Crazily low reward....
Rykuss	Posted - 2011.01.27 11:41:00 - [63] Originally by: Rashmika Clavain Well these patch notes may be related to some of you in this thread: Incursions Based on feedback from the community, we have reduced the rate at which Sansha's regain control of the constellations. An issue where the journal was not updating properly has been fixed. Yeah the few people actually doing them need to log off eventually and apparently starting again from zero is a pita. Meanwhile things are business as usual in incursed space, especially in staging areas. Everyone went back to mining since there haven't been any sansha ships there since the scout missions were completed very quickly on day one. No rats to be bothered with, life is good. Missioning elsewhere is also popular.
Pytria Le'Danness	Posted - 2011.01.27 13:41:00 - [64] Edited by: Pytria Le''Danness on 27/01/2011 13:41:26 Originally by: Mara Rinn As for the time it takes to complete the vanguard missions - my group of three logistics cruisers, one unskilled Tengu (the pilot didn't even have Guided Missile Precision, LOL) and a bellicose (doing target painting) took 2 hours to clear the Sanshas spawns from the mining encounter. We then proceeded to wait for one guy to slowboat his hulk the 45km from warp-in to the rock, and found that it was 75k units, with more sansha spawns triggered by the mining operation. So the limiting factor here is going to be how fast you can mine that ore. With a few properly skilled combat pilots and a small mining fleet, it will take about 20min to clear the spawns and mine that ore, for 15M ISK per pilot. I won't complain about an interesting group activity that nets us each 40M ISK/hr. What I don't know yet is just how many spawns arrive in that encounter. More research needs to be done. We've ran three Override Transfer Arrays and one Nation Mining Outpost yesterday, each site took roughly half an hour - the mining site a bit longer since I had to fly two jumps over to buy some mining drones. I'd say you taking so long is due to a distinct lack of DPS :) After MWDing over to the asteroid we prepared for a long session of (yawns) mining in our combat ships, but the first batch of the minerals dropped into the station triggered the explosion. The pilot said it was around 140 units. Of course since we remained in our combat ships the few NPCs that spawned caused more confusion than harm. I've kept a bunch of the ore for the next site, although it might be necessary to actually mine the asteroid before the mission can be completed - at least that's how some mining missions behave (don't look at me that way, a research agent demanded it!).
Jason1138	Posted - 2011.01.27 14:27:00 - [65] once these things start expiring unbeaten and the people who "earned" all this LP find out that they don't get anything at all unless the carrier gets killed, people are gonna lose their minds if these things aren't massively overhauled, and soon, they will be totally abandoned
Aunty Nora	Posted - 2011.01.27 14:34:00 - [66] Originally by: Miss Rabblt i hope you got really nice gifts from LP store of Concord then. Because 115mils and 16kLPs for 14(!!!!) hours of fights is like doing lvl2 i think.... Crazily low reward.... ITS NOT ABOUT THE REWARDS, PEOPLE PLAY GAMES FOR FUN
Jason1138	Posted - 2011.01.27 14:39:00 - [67] whether they play them for fun or not is totally beside the point incursions don't pay enough money to be sustainable. a person could not play this game and play ONLY incursions and have enough money for ships, ammo and fittings. the first time you lose a ship you'd have to go back to doing 4's for awhile any WH ship can pay for itself in no time. any level 4 ship can pay for itself in no time, alot of them within an hour or two Incursions ships will not in most cases pay for themselves. once you lose 3 or 4 ships and are broke, then what? it needs to be fun and pay enough for people to be able to continue to do it if they so choose
Aunty Nora	Posted - 2011.01.27 14:52:00 - [68] Originally by: Jason1138 whether they play them for fun or not is totally beside the point incursions don't pay enough money to be sustainable. a person could not play this game and play ONLY incursions and have enough money for ships, ammo and fittings. the first time you lose a ship you'd have to go back to doing 4's for awhile any WH ship can pay for itself in no time. any level 4 ship can pay for itself in no time, alot of them within an hour or two Incursions ships will not in most cases pay for themselves. once you lose 3 or 4 ships and are broke, then what? it needs to be fun and pay enough for people to be able to continue to do it if they so choose Feel sorry for you and your poor friends
Lakut Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition	Posted - 2011.01.27 14:53:00 - [69] Originally by: Jason1138 whether they play them for fun or not is totally beside the point incursions don't pay enough money to be sustainable. a person could not play this game and play ONLY incursions and have enough money for ships, ammo and fittings. the first time you lose a ship you'd have to go back to doing 4's for awhile any WH ship can pay for itself in no time. any level 4 ship can pay for itself in no time, alot of them within an hour or two Incursions ships will not in most cases pay for themselves. once you lose 3 or 4 ships and are broke, then what? it needs to be fun and pay enough for people to be able to continue to do it if they so choose The statement that it's unsustainable in General is utterly rubbish and only true if you're a terrible scrub and/or not prepared. If you find competent people to do them with, it's a whole different world. I've made around 200mil on ISK payouts alone so far in two days and have yet to lose my Guardian which is already well paid off (bugger me for bringing two spares :V) and the only ship our gangs lost was one scrubby tier 1 BS for 50mil and fittings which died to piloting error (broadcasts are good for you). Most importantly, the issue is that this is already my signature. ---------- You get a wonderful view from the point of no return.
Mad Yojik	Posted - 2011.01.27 15:08:00 - [70] Originally by: Lakut The statement that it's unsustainable in General is utterly rubbish and only true if you're a terrible scrub and/or not prepared. If you find competent people to do them with, it's a whole different world. I've made around 200mil on ISK payouts alone so far in two days and have yet to lose my Guardian which is already well paid off (bugger me for bringing two spares :V) and the only ship our gangs lost was one scrubby tier 1 BS for 50mil and fittings which died to piloting error (broadcasts are good for you). Btw what were you using Scorp for, Ewar? I'm just curious whether this works or not, and if it is - how it was useful? Since I have bit of jamming skills myself =)
Rampaging Raoul	Posted - 2011.01.27 16:16:00 - [71] Edited by: Rampaging Raoul on 27/01/2011 16:26:34 Edited by: Rampaging Raoul on 27/01/2011 16:25:42 Originally by: Jason1138 whether they play them for fun or not is totally beside the point incursions don't pay enough money to be sustainable. a person could not play this game and play ONLY incursions and have enough money for ships, ammo and fittings. the first time you lose a ship you'd have to go back to doing 4's for awhile any WH ship can pay for itself in no time. any level 4 ship can pay for itself in no time, alot of them within an hour or two Incursions ships will not in most cases pay for themselves. once you lose 3 or 4 ships and are broke, then what? it needs to be fun and pay enough for people to be able to continue to do it if they so choose So you actually expect difficult and demanding missions to be extremely profitable at day 1 ? Missions which are proven to require different fittings than the usual ones, teamplay and organization ? Missions where almost no knowledge is avaliable for now, and people going there without knowing the NPCs they will encounter, their characteristics or the spawn triggers ? Seriously, quit whining and come back in a month or two. Those incursions WILL BE profitable once people learn how to do them. Oh, you may want to take a look at this post. Just sayin.
Jason1138	Posted - 2011.01.27 17:42:00 - [72] "So you actually expect difficult and demanding missions to be extremely profitable at day 1 ?" never did i say that. but there's a big gap between "extremely profitable on day one" and "structured to be deliberately unprofitable in terms of isk/hr" if the mother ships are reliably killed with every incursion it will obviously totally change the payout because of LP but looking at the 7 we started with, i'd be surprised if more than 2 are beaten before they despawn, meaning that anyone who ran any site of the other 5 pretty much wasted their time then when you throw in that the high sec ones pay less generally and have no chance of the mom bpc, it just seems like some tweaking to the payrate might be in order
MuffinsRevenger Kenny Starfighter Appreciation Club	Posted - 2011.01.27 17:51:00 - [73] Originally by: Rip Minner Solid gang/fleets are still lossing ships bro. You lose your ship you dont get payed. We didden't, and since we read the site description we only brough enough ships for us all to get the full reward But yeah, they really do reward coordination and skill, so working as intended
Liadan Khanum Gallente Dragon Armed Mercenary Escort Squadron	Posted - 2011.01.27 18:31:00 - [74] Edited by: Liadan Khanum on 27/01/2011 18:32:49 Edited by: Liadan Khanum on 27/01/2011 18:32:20 So what is a good starting point for a guardian fit. Need resist based tank Need remote armor rep (duh) Cap transfer? ECCM? MWD? How much (if any) local cap recharge or boost? Low DC II EANM II x 2 (or EANM II x1 + 800mm Plate II x 1) Cap Power Relay II x2 Mid ECCM II (Radar) Cap Recharger II High L RAR II x4 L Energy Trans II Rig Cap Con Cir I x 2 68-90% resists is not bad, but only 21k ehp (EFT) putting in a plate 800mm T2 plate bumps to 28k, but lowers resists to 58-87. Removing any one of the cap boosting items lowers cap time from about 6 mins to about 1 minute. Is it ok to be that reliant on cap transfers? Trying to fit a MWD (or even AB) messes everything up. Do I need to drop an armor rep which is the ships primary focus? Or is the rep range of 70k enough to not need extra mobility? 261 m/s seems godawful slow. This leaves 1 empty high slot, but with max fitting skills (but not optimized implants) I''ve got only 1.5 CPU and 9 PG unused. Is fitting non T2 mods worth trading for putting something in the unused high?
Pharos Pharos	Posted - 2011.01.27 20:47:00 - [75] Guardians stay cap stable via cap transfer with other guardians. Ditch the local cap mods, fit an ab, go for maximum buffer/resists in the lows. Best named armor reps/energy transfers are as good as t2 and help with fitting. Mids are ECCM and ab.
Liadan Khanum Gallente Dragon Armed Mercenary Escort Squadron	Posted - 2011.01.27 22:31:00 - [76] So Mod 1 (I like this much better - but it is so totaly dependant on at least 1 squad mate) Guardian (team mate) Low EanM II x2 E Therm II DC II 800 mm Tungsten (using these instead of T2 allows for T2 ETA for just -30 ehp) Med AB II ECCM (RADAr T2 OR META 4) High Solace RAR x 4 ETA II Rigs Trimark I x 2 (depening on cost I could see going T2 for another 3.5k ehp) Drones LAMB II x5 of course speed of 550, 48.8k ehp (EFT), all resists > 75% The meta 4 RAR aren't quite as good (cycle time) but I can see the trade is good for the plate and ab. Is there anything worth trading out to use the open high slot? Ok so on to implants (6) KMB-75 allows T2 plate (7 & 10) ZET2k, ZET5k no brainers (8) KPB-75 fwiw extends targeting range beyon optimal for ETA Slot 9 ???
Oguras Gallente Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2011.01.27 23:51:00 - [77] is there any reason to use t2 plate instead rolled tungsten? something changed about them in incursions?
Vallek Arkonnis	Posted - 2011.01.28 00:12:00 - [78] Originally by: Asaface When you get that, like i had for 14 hours last night, you will have 115M paid to you by concord (like i have so far) 115mil after 14 hours? Why bother? You can make more money in less time doing almost anything else in the game. That IS a bad mechanic.
Borun Tal Minmatar Space Pods Inc	Posted - 2011.01.28 00:21:00 - [79] Edited by: Borun Tal on 28/01/2011 00:21:54 OK, I can accept horrible FCs in fleets. I can accept going nuts on rats and expending expensive faction & T2 ammo for no loot drops. I can accept no salvage whatsoever. I can accept no LP after participating and losing a ship here or there. What I have a problem with is a cruiser hitting me from 104k for 400+ dps in a single shot. Seriously? When I pop that cruiser nothing is dropped, no salvage, and I've expended a lot of isk for NOTHING. Really? I may try again, but for now I'm back to FW and L4 missions, thanks.
Mara Rinn	Posted - 2011.01.28 01:30:00 - [80] Originally by: Pytria Le'Danness After MWDing over to the asteroid we prepared for a long session of (yawns) mining in our combat ships, but the first batch of the minerals dropped into the station triggered the explosion. The pilot said it was around 140 units. Of course since we remained in our combat ships the few NPCs that spawned caused more confusion than harm. Holy cow! That changesmthings doesn't it :) -- [Aussie players: join ANZAC channel]
n00n3r Caldari Malicious Destruction	Posted - 2011.01.28 07:20:00 - [81] give me a 1M skill point character in a bantam, and i'll make him usefull in an incursion site. It's not about skill points guys, it's about teamwork.

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