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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Aiden Solette
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Posted - 2011.01.26 22:38:00 -
[1]
Capsuleers,
This is a petition i recently sent to CCP, i am hoping to get other players onboard who have had a similar experience to get CCP to re think the incursion loyalty structure:
Hi CCP,
I would like to know why our fleet did not recieve an incursion bonus. I recieved the message Capsuleer members not within CONCORD - Decreed site etc.....
How are we supposed to stop ships warping to a site that are not involved in our fleet? Perhaps you should put a gate entrance limit for example if 20 capsuleers go in you cannot enter until 1 warps out.
Alot of players lost valuable ships and once completed recieved.......nothing.
I look forward to your response.
Kind regards,
Ikeo
--------------------------- The problem is - Sanshas do not drop loot, do not have any rare ores (Besides the ones you need to complete the mining colony) and provide no bounty, and apparently no loyalty.
Losses to fleet in a night:
Basilisk Machariel (Painful) Raven x 2 Drake Hurricane Maelstrom
Loyalty points: 0 The point of capsuleers engaging = 0
Petitions needed!
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legatus Jake
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Posted - 2011.01.26 22:40:00 -
[2]
Edited by: legatus Jake on 26/01/2011 22:43:10 Edited by: legatus Jake on 26/01/2011 22:41:22 Signed
Was my Maelstrom and was all for nothing if i knew that was the case i wouldnt have even gone!!!
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lou sin'lai
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Posted - 2011.01.26 22:42:00 -
[3]
Signed
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Cpt Boomstick
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Posted - 2011.01.26 22:42:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Cpt Boomstick on 26/01/2011 22:44:20 lol
"Losses to fleet in a night: Basilisk Machariel (Painful) Raven x 2 Drake Hurricane Maelstrom"
I read your ships lost list and started laughing.
Flagged for lols to read up on later.
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Limm Eisenfaust
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Posted - 2011.01.26 22:42:00 -
[5]
signed
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Xen Eisenfaust
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Posted - 2011.01.26 22:43:00 -
[6]
Signed
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Geinus
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Posted - 2011.01.26 22:45:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Cpt Boomstick Edited by: Cpt Boomstick on 26/01/2011 22:43:40 "Losses to fleet in a night: Basilisk Machariel (Painful) Raven x 2 Drake Hurricane Maelstrom"
Read your ships lost list and started laughing.
Flagged for lols to read up on later.
Mach = Mine ....! oh well 1.5 bil
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Arom Wraelt
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Posted - 2011.01.26 22:55:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Arom Wraelt on 26/01/2011 22:56:06 No offence Aiden. But did you try these on the test server first? Or did you jump head-first into the "sansha pond", without checking if there were piranhas inside first? Me and my mates have been running them for weeks on Sisi, and have been tweaking our ship setups often, and even had some losses the first time. Then we tweaked some more and viola! We have been doing vanguard sites and have been getting a pretty good profit:fun ratio.
I suspect that maybe some other, more organized fleet did top damage to the sanshas, and thus got the reward. Either that OR, you have the wrong numbers. Remember that these events are geared towards being done with a certain number of people, eg., take a site meant for 10 people, if you do it with a fleet of 10, you get max reward. However, if you do it with 5, or 15, then you get less... if you solo it, or blob it with 20+ ppl. then you get nothing.
I suggest you go to the test server, and try out your fits and tactics first.
Off-topic note... ouch! Machariel!
Edit: typo
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StrykerR1
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Posted - 2011.01.26 23:27:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Arom Wraelt Edited by: Arom Wraelt on 26/01/2011 22:56:06 No offence Aiden. But did you try these on the test server first? Or did you jump head-first into the "sansha pond", without checking if there were piranhas inside first? Me and my mates have been running them for weeks on Sisi, and have been tweaking our ship setups often, and even had some losses the first time. Then we tweaked some more and viola! We have been doing vanguard sites and have been getting a pretty good profit:fun ratio.
I suspect that maybe some other, more organized fleet did top damage to the sanshas, and thus got the reward. Either that OR, you have the wrong numbers. Remember that these events are geared towards being done with a certain number of people, eg., take a site meant for 10 people, if you do it with a fleet of 10, you get max reward. However, if you do it with 5, or 15, then you get less... if you solo it, or blob it with 20+ ppl. then you get nothing.
I suggest you go to the test server, and try out your fits and tactics first.
Off-topic note... ouch! Machariel!
Edit: typo
thank god he cant read
signed
i did an entire HQ start to finish with the right amount of people and it still has yet to appear on my journal, also i have been in a fleet for a vanguard and because there was 1000000 people in it got nothing , also got hijacked at the end of another HQ i ran, :) just tweak the mechanics a bit ccp :) thats all we ask
and before anyone of you say "hey i made 100mil last night stop whining troll" congrats either you got lucky or you were a site jacker :)
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Deandra Walran
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Posted - 2011.01.26 23:40:00 -
[10]
Originally by: StrykerR1
Originally by: Arom Wraelt Edited by: Arom Wraelt on 26/01/2011 22:56:06 No offence Aiden. But did you try these on the test server first? Or did you jump head-first into the "sansha pond", without checking if there were piranhas inside first? Me and my mates have been running them for weeks on Sisi, and have been tweaking our ship setups often, and even had some losses the first time. Then we tweaked some more and viola! We have been doing vanguard sites and have been getting a pretty good profit:fun ratio.
I suspect that maybe some other, more organized fleet did top damage to the sanshas, and thus got the reward. Either that OR, you have the wrong numbers. Remember that these events are geared towards being done with a certain number of people, eg., take a site meant for 10 people, if you do it with a fleet of 10, you get max reward. However, if you do it with 5, or 15, then you get less... if you solo it, or blob it with 20+ ppl. then you get nothing.
I suggest you go to the test server, and try out your fits and tactics first.
Off-topic note... ouch! Machariel!
Edit: typo
thank god he cant read
signed
i did an entire HQ start to finish with the right amount of people and it still has yet to appear on my journal, also i have been in a fleet for a vanguard and because there was 1000000 people in it got nothing , also got hijacked at the end of another HQ i ran, :) just tweak the mechanics a bit ccp :) thats all we ask
and before anyone of you say "hey i made 100mil last night stop whining troll" congrats either you got lucky or you were a site jacker :)
I thought the EVE concept was "its not yours til you put it on the market".
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The Post Man
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Posted - 2011.01.27 00:01:00 -
[11]
TBH the way rewards are distributed really needs rethinking. I, along with many corp mates, had intended to take part in these incursions, but we haven't yet, and we won't unless and until the reward distribution is made fairer.
Why should we put our ships on the line against an enemy which, if I'm to believe what I'm hearing, appears to be seriously overpowered, only to end up with nothing after hours of effort?
No, we'll be sticking with our missions and exploration for now, thanks very much
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Sir Kid
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Posted - 2011.01.27 00:02:00 -
[12]
WHINGE!
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Ildryn
do you -Mostly Harmless-
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Posted - 2011.01.27 00:42:00 -
[13]
Topic: Sansha Incusion
Thought it was something new. Incusion...maybe that is why you received nothing. You were playing the wrong game.
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Arom Wraelt
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Posted - 2011.01.27 02:32:00 -
[14]
Originally by: StrykerR1
Originally by: Arom Wraelt Edited by: Arom Wraelt on 26/01/2011 22:56:06 No offence Aiden. But did you try these on the test server first? Or did you jump head-first into the "sansha pond", without checking if there were piranhas inside first? Me and my mates have been running them for weeks on Sisi, and have been tweaking our ship setups often, and even had some losses the first time. Then we tweaked some more and viola! We have been doing vanguard sites and have been getting a pretty good profit:fun ratio.
I suspect that maybe some other, more organized fleet did top damage to the sanshas, and thus got the reward. Either that OR, you have the wrong numbers. Remember that these events are geared towards being done with a certain number of people, eg., take a site meant for 10 people, if you do it with a fleet of 10, you get max reward. However, if you do it with 5, or 15, then you get less... if you solo it, or blob it with 20+ ppl. then you get nothing.
I suggest you go to the test server, and try out your fits and tactics first.
Off-topic note... ouch! Machariel!
Edit: typo
thank god he cant read
signed
i did an entire HQ start to finish with the right amount of people and it still has yet to appear on my journal, also i have been in a fleet for a vanguard and because there was 1000000 people in it got nothing , also got hijacked at the end of another HQ i ran, :) just tweak the mechanics a bit ccp :) thats all we ask
and before anyone of you say "hey i made 100mil last night stop whining troll" congrats either you got lucky or you were a site jacker :)
oh well... I guess we all got lucky then. good luck with the petition then.
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Asaface
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Posted - 2011.01.27 10:01:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Asaface on 27/01/2011 10:02:12
Originally by: Aiden Solette Capsuleers,
This is a petition i recently sent to CCP, i am hoping to get other players onboard who have had a similar experience to get CCP to re think the incursion loyalty structure:
Hi CCP,
I would like to know why our fleet did not recieve an incursion bonus. I recieved the message Capsuleer members not within CONCORD - Decreed site etc.....
How are we supposed to stop ships warping to a site that are not involved in our fleet? Perhaps you should put a gate entrance limit for example if 20 capsuleers go in you cannot enter until 1 warps out.
Alot of players lost valuable ships and once completed recieved.......nothing.
I look forward to your response.
Kind regards,
Ikeo
--------------------------- The problem is - Sanshas do not drop loot, do not have any rare ores (Besides the ones you need to complete the mining colony) and provide no bounty, and apparently no loyalty.
Losses to fleet in a night:
Basilisk Machariel (Painful) Raven x 2 Drake Hurricane Maelstrom
Loyalty points: 0 The point of capsuleers engaging = 0
Petitions needed!
found the issue in your fleet - ONE LOGI
ps-We made 115M isk and 15K LP day one, and 60M and 10KLP day 2, day three is coming after DT
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Umbriele
Gallente Etoilles Mortant Ltd. Solyaris Chtonium
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Posted - 2011.01.27 10:07:00 -
[16]
1) you lost ships. Reason: your fleet composition was wrong. 2) you didnt get reward. Reason: another fleet did more damage, cause your fleet composition was wrong.
Blame yourself not ccp
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Lupus Caeli
Minmatar Harpers of Eve Sleepless Knights Alliance
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Posted - 2011.01.27 11:21:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Lupus Caeli on 27/01/2011 11:24:09 Edwin Rothbard's fleet have now taken down 4 Sansha Provisional HQ's.
The first one we know the fleet composition was too large and do not expect a reward.
The second one had a fleet of 39 pilots and we completed the entire complex from first room to last and got the objective completed message.
HQ 3 we had a fleet of 40 pilots and as before completed the entire plex.
HQ 4 was a fleet of 37 pilots and as with the other 3 we completed the entire plex.
On none of these occaisions was any other fleet involved, just a few 'loners' in the plex each time.
No-one in any of the fleet compositions received any rewards. We have tried refreshing cache etc. but have received neither ISK nor LP for our effort. With times running from 3-4 hours to complete a plex this is a great deal of effort for apparently 0 gain.
I have posted a petition as have many other fleet members. Proof of our successes can be found in the pictures on http://www.niimus.co.uk
Please let us know what is happening, as I am sure we are doing nothing wrong and following all the guidlines.
These plexes are in the Algintal constellation - Colelie system.
Lupus Caeli
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Zoe Alarhun
Amarr Guy Fawkes Trust Fund 31ST Reliables Division
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Posted - 2011.01.27 11:46:00 -
[18]
Don't you only get ISk+LP once the Carrier dies when it spawns ?
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Aiden Solette
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Posted - 2011.01.27 11:51:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Umbriele 1) you lost ships. Reason: your fleet composition was wrong. 2) you didnt get reward. Reason: another fleet did more damage, cause your fleet composition was wrong.
Blame yourself not ccp
I think you'll find that we didnt lose the WHOLE fleet, they were parts of it.
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Stygian Knight
Blood Covenant Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2011.01.27 11:57:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Umbriele 1) you lost ships. Reason: your fleet composition was wrong. 2) you didnt get reward. Reason: another fleet did more damage, cause your fleet composition was wrong.
Blame yourself not ccp
this
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Orion GUardian
Caldari
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Posted - 2011.01.27 12:21:00 -
[21]
I think the problem described is the following:
For determining reward amount the site counts EVERY ship in the site regardless if they are one fleet or 20. and on that amount is calculated how much ISK and LP the "most dmg dealing" fleet receives.
So if one does a 30-40 Site with a fleet of 35 and some other fleet of 15 comes in.....you get nothing because there were 50 people in the site regardless if you did the most damage.
Aiden Solette: Is that the problem? If yes then it has to be corrected. Because players do not really have the ability to "kick someone out" to reduce the number fitting the requirements
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Fortorn Lonshanks
The Music of The Night
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Posted - 2011.01.27 12:30:00 -
[22]
I think operationally the issue with the incursions was similar to the issue with apocrapha. The ways these NPCs work is very... difficult to control. They have an AI that is more unpredictable combined with untold levels of hardening against all but the most powerful attacks. in addition they do pvp lvls of dmg. Add the microwaprdrive capabilities of even battleships, the fact that they have command and logistics ships, and that every pocket has specific types of close range or sniper NPCS and varied objectives other than killing the NPCS and you get a massively specialized fleet to take it on.
As with Apocrypha... their wasn't a great deal of information released about how the fleet composition worked until release day. i don't think anyone was really expecting the NPCs to be as overwhelmingly difficult as they are. Add the fact that the objectives weren't totally clear and that clearing a spawn didn't cause it to despawn led to a lot of confusion and eventually the 1000+ pilots in the algintal constellation just gave up. We couldn't win even one system.
Incursions are mid-end game content. If you can't fly logistics or logistic fitted battleships I wouldn't worry about trying this. Tight, well organized fleets are required to actually win and moreover to actually profit.
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Aiden Solette
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Posted - 2011.01.27 14:36:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Orion GUardian I think the problem described is the following:
For determining reward amount the site counts EVERY ship in the site regardless if they are one fleet or 20. and on that amount is calculated how much ISK and LP the "most dmg dealing" fleet receives.
So if one does a 30-40 Site with a fleet of 35 and some other fleet of 15 comes in.....you get nothing because there were 50 people in the site regardless if you did the most damage.
Aiden Solette: Is that the problem? If yes then it has to be corrected. Because players do not really have the ability to "kick someone out" to reduce the number fitting the requirements
This is the issue however as well as the loyalty point structure issue they also should take in to acccount that there are no bounties on sansha rats and no loot either.
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Aunty Nora
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Posted - 2011.01.27 14:42:00 -
[24]
IF you are all playing just for rewards, may i advise you all stick to wow.
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Jason1138
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Posted - 2011.01.27 14:45:00 -
[25]
oh good, the "this isn't wow" arrogance. that didn't take long
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Aunty Nora
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Posted - 2011.01.27 14:49:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Jason1138 oh good, the "this isn't wow" arrogance. that didn't take long
But its the truth, Incursion is not about getting awseome rewards, unlike wow. The rewards are almost next to nothing anyway, if you are playing incursions soley for rewards, you will be dissapointed.
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Femaref
Armageddon Day WE FORM VOLTRON
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Posted - 2011.01.27 14:56:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Orion GUardian I think the problem described is the following:
For determining reward amount the site counts EVERY ship in the site regardless if they are one fleet or 20. and on that amount is calculated how much ISK and LP the "most dmg dealing" fleet receives.
So if one does a 30-40 Site with a fleet of 35 and some other fleet of 15 comes in.....you get nothing because there were 50 people in the site regardless if you did the most damage.
Aiden Solette: Is that the problem? If yes then it has to be corrected. Because players do not really have the ability to "kick someone out" to reduce the number fitting the requirements
Nope. Depends entirely on the completing fleet. We went into a halfway done one with 10 people already on it with our ten and ninja'ed their reward - it's entirely possible.
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Jason1138
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Posted - 2011.01.27 15:06:00 -
[28]
"But its the truth, Incursion is not about getting awseome rewards"
lol no **** its not, everyone's saying that already
the argument is over whether or not it SHOULD be about getting better rewards given the time and difficulty involved
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Aunty Nora
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Posted - 2011.01.27 15:10:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Jason1138 "But its the truth, Incursion is not about getting awseome rewards"
lol no **** its not, everyone's saying that already
the argument is over whether or not it SHOULD be about getting better rewards given the time and difficulty involved
Which is why wow suits you better, you will get rwards for everything there and no need to whine because your rubbish fleet lost a few ships.
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Locupleto
Malicious Destruction
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Posted - 2011.01.27 15:50:00 -
[30]
How we got off to a good start:
- We practiced on SISI until Vanguard sites were on snooze and cruise mode for us. We even experimented and have progress into Assault sites.
- We take our methods and tactics onto TQ.
- Of course on TQ you donÆt have everything you need on a whim available for 100 ISK. Our real fleet starts out less than optimal. We win we lose some, we tighten up our game ôfor realö.
- We have Vanguards on farm mode now.
Some tips:
You need a unified tanking strategy with logistic support. We are using a shield tank fleet with Basi and Scimi.
Fit ships like you are about to enter a tough fight. Any given ship must have high resists or even the logi canÆt keep you alive. Have some buffer as well, these NPC hit hard you need to hold out a few seconds for the logi to get to you. The NPC change targets so every ship must have a solid tank.
You need cap management. We typically have 3 or 4 ships with energy transfer to keep the logiÆs happy.
You are going to get jammed and neuted. Your fleet makeup must tolerate a ship falling out of the cap chain or a logi getting jammed or unable to rep because he is out of cap.
Voice comms are not-optional. Too much can happen in a short time to rely on typing.
Leadership bonuses are very nice and helpful. We are using a command ship and or T3 with links.
ECM works on these NPCÆs and we find them to be very helpful in our practice so far on assault sites.
ItÆs a good idea to practice with a crew on SISI first. More than just the ship composition you need to have your technique right. Players need to become accustom to using the watch lists, their distance to the gang, learning the NPCÆs, calling targets and hitting them, keeping an eye their own cap and tank, etc. If you are new to it or a veteran it helps to do this, get warmed up, get used to each other as a team.
We have yet to experience the complete failure of rewards mentioned in above posts. Have noticed many instances of random pilots entering our sites to loot either their losses or wrecks of other players who died there. HavenÆt seen these affect our reward yet. Not saying it couldnÆt happen and in fact donÆt rule it out.
Contrary to some opinions expressed here, we are enjoying Incursions and receiving rewards.
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