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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 22 post(s) |
Cahvus
Confederated Armed Traders
High Rollers
22
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Posted - 2012.08.20 17:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
Every time you post I like you even more Fozzie! One thing though, I think the rep range for logi frigs is even more important for them compared to their cruiser counterparts. Consider the following:
In almost any cruiser size or larger fleet, the logi will be faster than or at least equal to the ships they are repping. On top of that their ~70 km rep range allows them to be in rep range of anything on grid and if not they have the speed to burn into range and start reps.
Now look at the logi frigs. Since they most certainly will have to monitor cap, they will be less likely to be able to run a constant prop mod, meaning the target of their reps (almost exclusively frigs) will be going much faster than them. Now this combined with the intentionally smaller rep range will mean thst either the logi or the person needing reps will have to burn towards each other, something that takes time, a resource most frigs under fire don't have.
IMHO I think rep range is even more crucial for logi frigs than their cruiser counterparts. Their smaller rep range will either cause fcs to require that people form frig trains (aka Rohktrains) or they will need to have sniper frig fleets, something that isnt feasable with the current state of small artillery / rail gun /etc weaponry.
Otherwise I completely love and support this idea! |
Cahvus
Confederated Armed Traders
High Rollers
22
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 18:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Makalu Zarya wrote:t1 logistics frigates are useless...can we please not get a slap in the face...if you gonna make logi frigates they at least need to be t2...t1 is just worthless crap
Oh makalu xD
Maybe if you had some better logi you wouldn't die so much :p
But all innocent joking aside, why not? They are cheap enough for noobs and let newbros do useful things for fleets. Plus frigate fleets are always fun and now, they get effective logi too! |
Cahvus
Confederated Armed Traders
High Rollers
23
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Posted - 2012.08.20 19:11:00 -
[3] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:MeBiatch wrote:
well no 1 ccp already said they want cruisers to be faster and more agile... so they will end up being nano any ways...
as for the medium vrs large... well 20 km is not so bad... 52 km range is more then enough to kite with... and hey they could always add a rig that could increase the range of RR right?
the only thing i would do i get rid of the drone rep bonus and replace with a rr efficiency bonus... lets say 7.5% per lev... that would take that 192 per medium rep and turn it into 264 to which i would be happy with...
so in practice you are loosing 100 rep per cycle and 20 km... which imo would bring them in line with the fact they are CRUISERS!
also back in the day putting rr on a bs was standard before they boosted the hell out of logi ships... so its not unheard off... plus IMO the bs sized ones would have 7ish high slots so there potential rep amount would make them worth using...
So, the thing about it is that 20km of RR range is a really big deal, especially given the fact that they're cruisers. The simple fact of the matter is that fights involving kiting can be really spread out (100s of km) and a Logi is expected to be everywhere... all the time. Furthermore, logistics don't need a RR amount nerf - as it stands a 3 RR Scimitar is not going to keep up a BC against another BC. And ultimately, the problem you're concerned about (RR BS disappearance) has absolutely nothing to do with logistics ships. They weren't even boosted around that time. What you're seeing is the effect of BOMBS and SUPERCARRIERS. Bringing RR BS is asking to lose your entire fleet to 4 bombers. -Liang
In addition to what Liang said I think range is even MORE important for frig gangs than for the current logis. The current logi ships are faster and more agile than most of the ships they will be repping. They have great range (71km for my badly skilled scimi) and plus they have the speed to burn towards anyone out of range, enabling them to effectively rep most anyone on grid.
In comparison, with the ~28ish max range for frigs you are setting them up for failure. Logi frigs will obviously only be mainly used for frigate gangs, and combined with the speed and tank (or lack thereof) of frigates, having a larger range seems MORE important to these new frigates than to their Cruiser counterparts. In addition, most frigates speed tank, meaning more spread out fleets of frigates and often it seems they may end up being faster than the logi ships.
Does this not sound like it would be a problem? |
Cahvus
Confederated Armed Traders
High Rollers
23
|
Posted - 2012.08.20 19:25:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Fozzie wrote:Felter Echerie wrote:what happened with the navitas being a drone boat? :( The Tristan became a drone boat instead.
Could we get some sort of comment on rep range Fozzie? If you want a detailed rationale, look at my post on page 7 or at the top of this page! |
Cahvus
Confederated Armed Traders
High Rollers
23
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Posted - 2012.08.21 17:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
I don't meant to beat a dead horse Fozzie but I seriously think you need to reconsider range. One of the most important tanking staples for frigates is their speed. If you are flying on a frigate roam there is no way you would fly in a train formation (everyone anchor on logi/fc). Because of their limited range (28km), you are putting the pilots of these new ships into a very difficult position that their cruiser flying counterparts do not have to face-
Do you:
A. Have everyone anchor within ~25 km of the logi frigates, making your fleet a perfect target for stealth bombers and simultaneously allowing your enemy to simple negate your transversal and fly parallel to your FrigTrain. Somewhat limits speed tanking because not all ships go the same speed, and everyone is anchored within range of the logi.
B. Have everyone do their normal speed tank. But wait, this is a fight, not everyone is going to be at the same optimals/ranges! This means the logi either has to turn on its afterburner (which sucks out it's cap which would otherwise be used for running reps) or their MWD (sucking even more cap plus giving them sig bloom, painting a huge bullseye on an already enticing target
C. Do your normal thing and hope everyone stays within 28km of you, otherwise tough luck for them
It's rather early for me so if anything doesn't make sense/isn't a coherent thought please show me and I will try and clarify. Hopefully the tone does not come off as rude or confrontation as that is not my intention at all. I am super excited for these new ships, I just want them to be viable and useful so that we can start educating and utilizing newer players, and welcome them into an aspect of PVP that is my personal favorite! |
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